Caffeine

November 14, 2003

I've been going " cold-turkey " on multiple addictions since 11-8-03.

Caffeine is one of the things I'm (supposed to be) off of.

I find that I have to abstain entirely from caffeine and other

addictive substances because a little of them causes me an addiction,

a craving, or a distress that puts me back on the merry-go-round with

that addiction. It's like an alcoholic with alcohol!! With me, it's

exactly like that with everything addictive!

Yesterday I went to the deli of a health food store, of all places,

and asked for some non caffeine herbal tea. They got panicked and

confused with my request and brought me a cup of strong black tea. I

knew the minute I tasted it that it was not herbal tea, but I drank

it anyway because I had paid $2.69 for a cup of hot water and I

didn't want to " waste my money " !!!!

After being clean for nearly a week the large cup of black tea put me

back on the caffeine merry-go-round. I woke with headaches and

withdrawals this morning and had a tough day at work, so I drank a

cup of coffee to get rid of the headaches and caffeine withdrawals.

Now I'm back into coffee big time!

MORAL OF THE STORY: Apparently, I cannot trust restaurants,

strangers, or even raw food potlucks to serve me food that I can

eat!! Eating can no longer be a social function for me. I must take

my own food, or stick to fresh, raw fruit in public or on social

occassions where I cannot do my own food selection.

Has this been anyone else's experience?

Actually, once I decide to get off all addictions I take the path

less travelled by others. Most people aren't interested in getting

off all the stuff I'm getting off of. They just say, " Good luck " and

let my face my own fate. Perhaps I need to look for ONE FRIEND

instead of FRIENDS!!

I would be very gratified to find ONE OTHER PERSON in this world who

has similar problems and solutions to mine!! I thrive on like-

mindedness and compatibility. I don't like going it alone and

charting my own course.

Ron McClure

November 15, 2003

Hi, Ron -

I would have sent the black tea back, and asked for a refund if they

couldn't provide the herbal tea. I can't imagine a health food store not

understanding a request for a non-caffeinated herbal tea. Just as you would

have sent an incorrect order back in any restaurant, you can certainly send

tea back if it isn't right.

Re. raw food potlucks - while one may not always be able to follow proper

food combining at these, I would say that the ones in our area are probably

the safest places to eat around (food-wise) outside of our own homes and a

couple of local, trusted restaurants. The companionship that we find is

most helpful to those of us trying to maintain the raw lifestyle in a cooked

world.

Sue

rlmftw [rlmftw]

Friday, November 14, 2003 8:02 AM

RawSeattle

[RawSeattle] Caffeine

I've been going " cold-turkey " on multiple addictions since 11-8-03.

Caffeine is one of the things I'm (supposed to be) off of.

I find that I have to abstain entirely from caffeine and other

addictive substances because a little of them causes me an addiction,

a craving, or a distress that puts me back on the merry-go-round with

that addiction. It's like an alcoholic with alcohol!! With me, it's

exactly like that with everything addictive!

Yesterday I went to the deli of a health food store, of all places,

and asked for some non caffeine herbal tea. They got panicked and

confused with my request and brought me a cup of strong black tea. I

knew the minute I tasted it that it was not herbal tea, but I drank

it anyway because I had paid $2.69 for a cup of hot water and I

didn't want to " waste my money " !!!!

After being clean for nearly a week the large cup of black tea put me

back on the caffeine merry-go-round. I woke with headaches and

withdrawals this morning and had a tough day at work, so I drank a

cup of coffee to get rid of the headaches and caffeine withdrawals.

Now I'm back into coffee big time!

MORAL OF THE STORY: Apparently, I cannot trust restaurants,

strangers, or even raw food potlucks to serve me food that I can

eat!! Eating can no longer be a social function for me. I must take

my own food, or stick to fresh, raw fruit in public or on social

occassions where I cannot do my own food selection.

Has this been anyone else's experience?

Actually, once I decide to get off all addictions I take the path

less travelled by others. Most people aren't interested in getting

off all the stuff I'm getting off of. They just say, " Good luck " and

let my face my own fate. Perhaps I need to look for ONE FRIEND

instead of FRIENDS!!

I would be very gratified to find ONE OTHER PERSON in this world who

has similar problems and solutions to mine!! I thrive on like-

mindedness and compatibility. I don't like going it alone and

charting my own course.

Ron McClure

November 15, 2003

Ron

When I first went raw the only support I received was from the classes I was

taking learning how to prepare raw food.

I later found the support group but the group needs were very different from my

own but I still liked being with others who chose the lifestyle.

The majority of the group lived closer to the meeting area and I lived much

futher out, but I was willing to battle the traffic and take the time to attend

the meetings because that was all that was available to me at the time.

With time it became apparent that I had to make a choice. The choice was - did

I truly want to practice the raw vegan lifestyle or not and how was " I " going

to accomplish it. What was I really prepared to do?

I make dehydrated crackers about once a month. This has been a trial and error

prosses to develop a recipe that I enjoy. There were some batches that did not

turn out well and I fretted about the wasted expence but I continued because our

failures bring about the greatest learning. These crackers are a geat quick

bite when there is nothing else to be eaten and I am hungry. I eat them when I

want a little more than what is avaialbe.

I keep my favorite foods around and always come prepared with " my food " where

ever I go if I wish to eat there. I either eat it all there or use part of it

to supplement what is being served.

I have no guilt about it becuse this is my choice to do this. The most

reactions are from others but they usually only show it in their faces. I

allow them to have their reaction for it is their choice to have it.

I enourage you to allow yourself to " be " as you desire to " be " . You are

creating yourself anew and there will be times or trial and error but know

that this is a blessing to help you develop the " new " you.

You are in my thoughts and prayers

Light and Love

Ramona

-

rlmftw

RawSeattle

Friday, November 14, 2003 8:01 AM

[RawSeattle] Caffeine

I've been going " cold-turkey " on multiple addictions since 11-8-03.

Caffeine is one of the things I'm (supposed to be) off of.

I find that I have to abstain entirely from caffeine and other

addictive substances because a little of them causes me an addiction,

a craving, or a distress that puts me back on the merry-go-round with

that addiction. It's like an alcoholic with alcohol!! With me, it's

exactly like that with everything addictive!

Yesterday I went to the deli of a health food store, of all places,

and asked for some non caffeine herbal tea. They got panicked and

confused with my request and brought me a cup of strong black tea. I

knew the minute I tasted it that it was not herbal tea, but I drank

it anyway because I had paid $2.69 for a cup of hot water and I

didn't want to " waste my money " !!!!

After being clean for nearly a week the large cup of black tea put me

back on the caffeine merry-go-round. I woke with headaches and

withdrawals this morning and had a tough day at work, so I drank a

cup of coffee to get rid of the headaches and caffeine withdrawals.

Now I'm back into coffee big time!

MORAL OF THE STORY: Apparently, I cannot trust restaurants,

strangers, or even raw food potlucks to serve me food that I can

eat!! Eating can no longer be a social function for me. I must take

my own food, or stick to fresh, raw fruit in public or on social

occassions where I cannot do my own food selection.

Has this been anyone else's experience?

Actually, once I decide to get off all addictions I take the path

less travelled by others. Most people aren't interested in getting

off all the stuff I'm getting off of. They just say, " Good luck " and

let my face my own fate. Perhaps I need to look for ONE FRIEND

instead of FRIENDS!!

I would be very gratified to find ONE OTHER PERSON in this world who

has similar problems and solutions to mine!! I thrive on like-

mindedness and compatibility. I don't like going it alone and

charting my own course.

Ron McClure

November 17, 2003

Sue -

In your last post I can read between the lines and conclude that

there is quite a difference in the level of conscience between the

health food stores here and those in Seattle--as well as the

employees and customers here as compared to Seattle, I would say.

It is really difficult to find any kind of social support here and

most of my attempts backfire on me. Recently I tried to help a 350

pound woman at work lose weight by eating all the fruits and veggies

she wanted. . . unlimited amounts, I told her, and you will still

lose weight! You cannot maintain a weight of 350 lbs by eating only

fruits and veggies, I told her.

Anyway, she tried it and said that she would rather eat cardboard

than raw fruits and veggies and she would rather die from diabetes

and cardiovascular disease than eat raw fruits and veggies. At that

point I said, " Well! You probably will, in that case " !

The short attempt to work together showed me that raw people are

mentally, physically, and spiritually different from other people.

So different that I should not be talking with advocates of the

Western diet and sedentary lifestyle aabout food. . . !

After this experience I have decided to " Let them die " and enjoy

watching the spectacle!

Ron

RawSeattle , " Sue Aberle " <sue@a...> wrote:

> Hi, Ron -

>

> I would have sent the black tea back, and asked for a refund if they

> couldn't provide the herbal tea. I can't imagine a health food

store not

> understanding a request for a non-caffeinated herbal tea. Just as

you would

> have sent an incorrect order back in any restaurant, you can

certainly send

> tea back if it isn't right.

>

> Re. raw food potlucks - while one may not always be able to follow

proper

> food combining at these, I would say that the ones in our area are

probably

> the safest places to eat around (food-wise) outside of our own

homes and a

> couple of local, trusted restaurants. The companionship that we

find is

> most helpful to those of us trying to maintain the raw lifestyle in

a cooked

> world.

>

> Sue

>

> rlmftw [rlmftw]

> Friday, November 14, 2003 8:02 AM

> RawSeattle

> [RawSeattle] Caffeine

>

> I've been going " cold-turkey " on multiple addictions since 11-8-03.

> Caffeine is one of the things I'm (supposed to be) off of.

>

> I find that I have to abstain entirely from caffeine and other

> addictive substances because a little of them causes me an

addiction,

> a craving, or a distress that puts me back on the merry-go-round

with

> that addiction. It's like an alcoholic with alcohol!! With me,

it's

> exactly like that with everything addictive!

>

> Yesterday I went to the deli of a health food store, of all places,

> and asked for some non caffeine herbal tea. They got panicked and

> confused with my request and brought me a cup of strong black tea.

I

> knew the minute I tasted it that it was not herbal tea, but I drank

> it anyway because I had paid $2.69 for a cup of hot water and I

> didn't want to " waste my money " !!!!

>

> After being clean for nearly a week the large cup of black tea put

me

> back on the caffeine merry-go-round. I woke with headaches and

> withdrawals this morning and had a tough day at work, so I drank a

> cup of coffee to get rid of the headaches and caffeine withdrawals.

>

> Now I'm back into coffee big time!

>

> MORAL OF THE STORY: Apparently, I cannot trust restaurants,

> strangers, or even raw food potlucks to serve me food that I can

> eat!! Eating can no longer be a social function for me. I must

take

> my own food, or stick to fresh, raw fruit in public or on social

> occassions where I cannot do my own food selection.

>

> Has this been anyone else's experience?

>

> Actually, once I decide to get off all addictions I take the path

> less travelled by others. Most people aren't interested in getting

> off all the stuff I'm getting off of. They just say, " Good luck "

and

> let my face my own fate. Perhaps I need to look for ONE FRIEND

> instead of FRIENDS!!

>

> I would be very gratified to find ONE OTHER PERSON in this world who

> has similar problems and solutions to mine!! I thrive on like-

> mindedness and compatibility. I don't like going it alone and

> charting my own course.

>

> Ron McClure

>

November 17, 2003

Ramona

Thank you for your encouragement and support. I sometimes feel that

I may retire to Seattle if I can't find a raw support group here.

Another idea I have had is to drive to Dallas on the weekends to make

meetins there. But I have still been unable to find the raw group

there! I have an internet address, but every time I punch it in, I

wind up an the AOL Homepage?

I'm still searching for raw support groups in the Ft. Worth, Dallas

area. You don't happen to know of any, do you?

Another thing I have thought of is trying to help someone here; then

there would be two of us here. I'm going to start putting posters

out on telephone posts or something like that.

But one thing that I have learned is that a person who does not ask

me for help does not want help from me! I can't imagine that 350

pound sloppy-fat women would want to be sloppy fat, but it is

apparently true because they certainly don't want any help with their

food problems, from what I can see.

It is astounding to me that 60% of our society is obese because THEY

WANT TO BE, rather than because they can't help it. In that case, I

have no sympathy or respect for them. I don't even want to talk to

them. Let them die!

I am learing that I do not want to eat socially here. I want to keep

my raw food program secret so that it is not a source of ridicule,

debate or argument. I don't have time for any of that.

I suggest that you are very lucky to have a large and active raw

community in Seattle.

Ron

RawSeattle , " sturtevants " <sturtevants@c...>

wrote:

>

> Ron

>

> When I first went raw the only support I received was from the

classes I was taking learning how to prepare raw food.

>

> I later found the support group but the group needs were very

different from my own but I still liked being with others who chose

the lifestyle.

>

> The majority of the group lived closer to the meeting area and I

lived much futher out, but I was willing to battle the traffic and

take the time to attend the meetings because that was all that was

available to me at the time.

>

> With time it became apparent that I had to make a choice. The

choice was - did I truly want to practice the raw vegan lifestyle or

not and how was " I " going to accomplish it. What was I really

prepared to do?

>

> I make dehydrated crackers about once a month. This has been a

trial and error prosses to develop a recipe that I enjoy. There were

some batches that did not turn out well and I fretted about the

wasted expence but I continued because our failures bring about the

greatest learning. These crackers are a geat quick bite when there

is nothing else to be eaten and I am hungry. I eat them when I want

a little more than what is avaialbe.

>

> I keep my favorite foods around and always come prepared with " my

food " where ever I go if I wish to eat there. I either eat it all

there or use part of it to supplement what is being served.

>

> I have no guilt about it becuse this is my choice to do this. The

most reactions are from others but they usually only show it in

their faces. I allow them to have their reaction for it is their

choice to have it.

>

> I enourage you to allow yourself to " be " as you desire to " be " .

You are creating yourself anew and there will be times or trial and

error but know that this is a blessing to help you develop the " new "

you.

>

> You are in my thoughts and prayers

>

> Light and Love

>

> Ramona

>

> -

> rlmftw

> RawSeattle

> Friday, November 14, 2003 8:01 AM

> [RawSeattle] Caffeine

>

> I've been going " cold-turkey " on multiple addictions since 11-8-

03.

> Caffeine is one of the things I'm (supposed to be) off of.

>

> I find that I have to abstain entirely from caffeine and other

> addictive substances because a little of them causes me an

addiction,

> a craving, or a distress that puts me back on the merry-go-round

with

> that addiction. It's like an alcoholic with alcohol!! With me,

it's

> exactly like that with everything addictive!

>

> Yesterday I went to the deli of a health food store, of all

places,

> and asked for some non caffeine herbal tea. They got panicked

and

> confused with my request and brought me a cup of strong black

tea. I

> knew the minute I tasted it that it was not herbal tea, but I

drank

> it anyway because I had paid $2.69 for a cup of hot water and I

> didn't want to " waste my money " !!!!

>

> After being clean for nearly a week the large cup of black tea

put me

> back on the caffeine merry-go-round. I woke with headaches and

> withdrawals this morning and had a tough day at work, so I drank

a

> cup of coffee to get rid of the headaches and caffeine

withdrawals.

>

> Now I'm back into coffee big time!

>

> MORAL OF THE STORY: Apparently, I cannot trust restaurants,

> strangers, or even raw food potlucks to serve me food that I can

> eat!! Eating can no longer be a social function for me. I must

take

> my own food, or stick to fresh, raw fruit in public or on social

> occassions where I cannot do my own food selection.

>

> Has this been anyone else's experience?

>

> Actually, once I decide to get off all addictions I take the path

> less travelled by others. Most people aren't interested in

getting

> off all the stuff I'm getting off of. They just say, " Good luck "

and

> let my face my own fate. Perhaps I need to look for ONE FRIEND

> instead of FRIENDS!!

>

> I would be very gratified to find ONE OTHER PERSON in this world

who

> has similar problems and solutions to mine!! I thrive on like-

> mindedness and compatibility. I don't like going it alone and

> charting my own course.

>

> Ron McClure

>

November 18, 2003

Ron -

The addictiveness of the SAD has a very strong hold on most people in our

country. The attitude that you found is, unfortunately, typical. I have

co-workers and people at church who have asked about my weight loss, yet

they continue to eat their Atkins diet, take their pills, and follow their

" cabbage soup " diet. One woman at work admits that she loves bread, and

will buy an entire baguette to eat for lunch, along with whatever else she

bought. Another woman complains that she can't lose weight, but then buys

lunch at McD's because she didn't allow time to prepare lunch at home in the

morning. Even people who have become vegan often cannot move past their

addictions to cooked food to achieve the vital health that can be attained

by the raw diet.

However, I do have to agree with Victoria Boutenko's philosophy of

" acceptance " . By loving and accepting the person for who he/she is, and

treating that person kindly, hopefully he/she will see the beauty of the

living foods diet, and will become more accepting of ideas. I work with a

wide range of people (low-income, ethnically diverse) with a wide range of

eating practices, with a correspondingly wide range of sizes and shapes.

With the majority of them, I recognize that " success " is defined as getting

them to eat less fast food and more fruits and vegetables. Less pasta and

instant packaged gunk and more natural foods. Watching less TV and taking

their kids out to play more often, assuming they live in a safe

neighborhood. Teaching immigrants that the wide variety of stuff in

American supermarkets is not all healthy. (They come to the US and learn

English by watching TV, including the ads. Although most of the immigrants

that I see do better at their dietary choices than do the non-immigrants!)

Each situation has a " rest of the story " to it, and until we know " the rest

of the story " , it is unfair to judge people.

Sue

rlmftw [rlmftw]

Monday, November 17, 2003 10:49 AM

RawSeattle

[RawSeattle] Re: Caffeine