Essene vegetarian raw fooder

April 4, 2004

This interview appears on Dr. Bass's site:

www.angelfire.com/ny2/bass/generations.html

Does anyone have the Oct. 2002 MTM e-mag and can they tell me who this Essene

vegetarian raw fooder is so I can find out what ever came of his research?

Also, does anyone have any suggestions for a good source of fermented dairy?

Here in WA, raw dairy is no longer legally available unless it has been aged for

60 days, which rules out raw yogurt or milk. Maybe I will have to get raw milk

from a farmer and make my own yogurt.

Mark

Interview with Dr. Bass:

Q: How well-known is it that all-vegetarianism (veganism) can cause

health trouble?

A: Amazingly enough there is still a lot of educational work to be

done. For example, listen to this voice, from the October 2002 M2M e-magazine:

Letter to M2M from Essene vegetarian raw-fooder:

........

2) I hereby request people who have had either very good results

(healings and/or robust health) or very poor results (health problems)

on a raw vegan diet to briefly write-up their experience and mail it to me.

I am doing research for a book in which I will publish an unbiased study

on the experiences people have had with the diet. This book will

include any reports of great healings and robust health, but will also include

reports of people apparently crippled or whose death seems to have been

related to the diet. If any of you know people who fall into either

category, please request that they send me their story.

I feel that an unbiased study and report needs to be done. Let me

explain why.

My own experience with raw foods is as follows. When 17, I met an

elderly Essene man who was a raw fooder who ate dairy. He became my

mentor and I followed his diet. We made raw yogurts and other fermented

dairy products from mostly goat and sheep milk from animals well taken

care of. (With fermented dairy the lactose is predigested and does not

cause mucous and is very digestible.) I ate that diet for many years

and was very healthy. Then, due to my attraction to the philosophy of

veganism, I became a vegan raw fooder. I never felt as healthy on that

version of the diet and after five years on that version I lost the use

of my feet and was nearly crippled. I had to crawl to the bathroom. I

had my blood tested and was B-12 anemic. I began taking B-12 and eating

dairy. The B-12 healed my nerve problems, but I believe it was the

protein in the fermented dairy that healed my feet and muscle tissue.

(On the vegan version my muscle tissue seemed to be eating itself;

after adding the yogurt my muscle tissue healed itself.)

Since my negative experience as a raw vegan I have been on the mostly

raw with fermented dairy version another five years and feel fantastic.

Thus, all together I have eaten the raw with dairy diet 15 years,

always feeling fantastic and being physically fit. The five years as a raw

vegan resulted in my body falling apart.

While I was a vegan I preached that philosophy with great fervor. I

truly believed it was the best diet. Whenever I heard a raw vegan or

cooked vegan describe health problems that they experienced on the

vegan diet, I chalked it up to either 1) They are just detoxing; or, 2) They

are not following the diet correctly. But after my own negative

experience as a raw vegan I began to honestly open my eyes. The

following is a synopsis of what I found.

Because I was by this time a " noted raw food speaker " and intimate with

other famous raw food speakers/experts, I was often at their homes and

getting to know them. I found that many of these noted

speakers/experts/authors were experiencing anxiety attacks, panic

attacks, clinical depression, and various muscle tissue and other

problems. However, what was most troubling, is that they didn't want

the public to know. I won't name names because that would be betraying

confidential interactions, but many of them called me when they were

needing some sort of advice for dealing with these ailments. Then, at

the next big raw food conference, there that person would be, preaching

the amazing benefits of the 100% raw vegan diet, signing copies of

their books, and speaking negatively about cooked food eaters and those who

eat only partially raw or are not vegan. This was a major eye-opener

for me. I realized that once a person is earning their livelihood and

getting their " positive strokes " by being an author/expert on the

raw/vegan diet, it is very hard for them to admit that the diet is not

working in their own life. It would mean that their own books were no

longer valid, and they would need to find another way to earn their

livelihood.

But there is another reason that raw food author/experts (as well as

the non-famous raw vegans) do not publicly admit their problems with the

diet. Because people have been shamed into not admitting their

hardships on this diet, each one believes they are the only one having the

problem. This is especially true with anxiety attacks, panic attacks,

and depression. I have been in a room with seven raw food experts and

had personal knowledge that five of them had been struggling with those

problems, and yet each of them thought they were the only one. Because

I am a minister, many of these folks felt comfortable enough to seek

counseling from me, but would not feel comfortable mentioning their

problems to others. I once lived in a house with several raw food

vegans. Every one of them ended up with nervous disorders such as panic

attacks. One of them went on a raw food chat board and asked if it

might be due to the diet and perhaps they should take B-12. The moderator of

that chat board wrote back saying that the diet is perfectly fine and

they were just going through detox. However, I was a personal friend of

that moderator and so I knew what the other people on the chat board

did not know: I knew that the moderator himself was suffering from terrible

panic attacks and was even considering suicide (he had confided that to

me, but on the chat board he moderated he still preached the party

line: all problems are just detox).

I then read an issue of Chet Day's Health and Beyond newsletter in

which former students of T. C. Fry wrote in and described how they had become

crippled following his diet. I read another interview in that mag of a

Natural Hygienist doctor who said that health problems " invariably "

result in a 100% raw vegan diet.

Then, in a town very near me, one of the founding members of the local

raw food group died at a very young age from heart problems. My guess

is he was about 49 or so. The doctor told his wife that the man's body had

begun to eat itself and destroyed his heart due to malnutrition. His

body had not been getting enough nutrition on the raw vegan diet, as he

did not absorb enough nutrients from raw foods. When his wife shared

that info with the members of that raw food support group, she was told

" the doctor is wrong. And if you are going to speak negatively about

raw foods you are no longer welcome to attend. " That was the support she

got when her husband had just dropped dead. I then told a woman from a

California raw food support group that story. She responded, " Oh, we

just had a guy die from the very same thing. The doctors said his body

had begun to eat itself due to malnutrition. I began to wonder how

prevalent these sorts of problems really are.

I could go on and on reporting similar things. But suffice it to say

that I now believe there are problems with the raw vegan diet. And now

that I have begun to share this sort of information, I am getting the

exact response I have seen others get when they shared such info:

brushed aside with some sort of negative remark.

Here is what I have decided to do. I am soliciting peoples experiences,

good and bad, with this diet. I am doing a research project. It will be

unbiased. In three years or so I will publish the results.

Last remark: I still think raw foods are great! I have thrived on a raw

diet with yogurt for 15 years. I have friends who have thrived equally

long including eggs in their raw diet. So, I am not against raw foods,

I am in favour of them, but now believe their is something missing in the

vegan form of the diet. I guess it is appropriate that, as an Essene, I

now find myself supporting the version of the diet given by Jesus in

the Essene Gospel of Peace (raw diet with dairy). When I was a raw food

vegan I was embarrassed by Jesus' including raw dairy in the diet. Now

I realize he knew what he was doing!

..... if you know of anyone who

had either a great healing/robust health or bad problems on the raw

vegan diet, send me that info for my research project: ....

April 5, 2004

In the past, there was someone on this list mentioning she had

available raw sheep(?) milk. You may want to look through our

archives. This is actually a raw vegan discussion group, so there is

not much discussion of dairy.

If you don't find the information you are looking for, you can also

check with the Essene Church (essene.org). Brother Nazariah and

Gabrial Cousins are elder Essene ministers, though not necessarily

who you are looking for. Even though the Essene scriptures tell us we

should not cook our food, that does not guarantee that all the Essene

ministers are eating 100% raw.

Regarding the article, I hadn't read it previously. It sounds quite

biased and does not offer references or documentation, only 2nd hand

(now 3rd) information. It also seems to suggest that the raw food

speakers should not be promoting raw foods. I, as a raw foodist, can

tell you that my health is not perfect. I also do not eat perfect,

though I have an understanding of a more perfect diet. I can also

tell you, even though my heath is not perfect, It is far, far better

than it had been when I was eating cooked foods, including meat and

dairy. The article suggests that I should not talk about the benefits

of raw foods if my health is not perfect. I do not know of any health

issues actually caused by my eating raw food. Of all the people I

know, I have not heard of health issues caused by eating raw foods,

other than " detox " , which are temporary things. I also realize most

raw foodists are not consuming what would be considered by natural

hygienists as a perfect diet. That would suggest why many do not have

ideal health. I could be included in that group, though my health is

very good, and much better than with previous diets.

Jeff

>This interview appears on Dr. Bass's site:

>www.angelfire.com/ny2/bass/generations.html

>

>Does anyone have the Oct. 2002 MTM e-mag and can they tell me who

>this Essene vegetarian raw fooder is so I can find out what ever

>came of his research? Also, does anyone have any suggestions for a

>good source of fermented dairy? Here in WA, raw dairy is no longer

>legally available unless it has been aged for 60 days, which rules

>out raw yogurt or milk. Maybe I will have to get raw milk from a

>farmer and make my own yogurt.

>

>Mark

>

> Interview with Dr. Bass:

> Q: How well-known is it that all-vegetarianism

>(veganism) can cause health trouble?

> A: Amazingly enough there is still a lot of educational

>work to be done. For example, listen to this voice, from the October

>2002 M2M e-magazine:

>

>Letter to M2M from Essene vegetarian raw-fooder:

>.......

>2) I hereby request people who have had either very good results

>(healings and/or robust health) or very poor results (health problems)

>on a raw vegan diet to briefly write-up their experience and mail it to me.

>

>I am doing research for a book in which I will publish an unbiased study

>on the experiences people have had with the diet. This book will

>include any reports of great healings and robust health, but will also include

>reports of people apparently crippled or whose death seems to have been

>related to the diet. If any of you know people who fall into either

>category, please request that they send me their story.

>

>I feel that an unbiased study and report needs to be done. Let me

>explain why.

>

>My own experience with raw foods is as follows. When 17, I met an

>elderly Essene man who was a raw fooder who ate dairy. He became my

>mentor and I followed his diet. We made raw yogurts and other fermented

>dairy products from mostly goat and sheep milk from animals well taken

>care of. (With fermented dairy the lactose is predigested and does not

>cause mucous and is very digestible.) I ate that diet for many years

>and was very healthy. Then, due to my attraction to the philosophy of

>veganism, I became a vegan raw fooder. I never felt as healthy on that

>version of the diet and after five years on that version I lost the use

>of my feet and was nearly crippled. I had to crawl to the bathroom. I

>had my blood tested and was B-12 anemic. I began taking B-12 and eating

>dairy. The B-12 healed my nerve problems, but I believe it was the

>protein in the fermented dairy that healed my feet and muscle tissue.

>(On the vegan version my muscle tissue seemed to be eating itself;

>after adding the yogurt my muscle tissue healed itself.)

>

>Since my negative experience as a raw vegan I have been on the mostly

>raw with fermented dairy version another five years and feel fantastic.

>Thus, all together I have eaten the raw with dairy diet 15 years,

>always feeling fantastic and being physically fit. The five years as a raw

>vegan resulted in my body falling apart.

>

>While I was a vegan I preached that philosophy with great fervor. I

>truly believed it was the best diet. Whenever I heard a raw vegan or

>cooked vegan describe health problems that they experienced on the

>vegan diet, I chalked it up to either 1) They are just detoxing; or, 2) They

>are not following the diet correctly. But after my own negative

>experience as a raw vegan I began to honestly open my eyes. The

>following is a synopsis of what I found.

>

>Because I was by this time a " noted raw food speaker " and intimate with

>other famous raw food speakers/experts, I was often at their homes and

>getting to know them. I found that many of these noted

>speakers/experts/authors were experiencing anxiety attacks, panic

>attacks, clinical depression, and various muscle tissue and other

>problems. However, what was most troubling, is that they didn't want

>the public to know. I won't name names because that would be betraying

>confidential interactions, but many of them called me when they were

>needing some sort of advice for dealing with these ailments. Then, at

>the next big raw food conference, there that person would be, preaching

>the amazing benefits of the 100% raw vegan diet, signing copies of

>their books, and speaking negatively about cooked food eaters and those who

>eat only partially raw or are not vegan. This was a major eye-opener

>for me. I realized that once a person is earning their livelihood and

>getting their " positive strokes " by being an author/expert on the

>raw/vegan diet, it is very hard for them to admit that the diet is not

>working in their own life. It would mean that their own books were no

>longer valid, and they would need to find another way to earn their

>livelihood.

>

>But there is another reason that raw food author/experts (as well as

>the non-famous raw vegans) do not publicly admit their problems with the

>diet. Because people have been shamed into not admitting their

>hardships on this diet, each one believes they are the only one having the

>problem. This is especially true with anxiety attacks, panic attacks,

>and depression. I have been in a room with seven raw food experts and

>had personal knowledge that five of them had been struggling with those

>problems, and yet each of them thought they were the only one. Because

>I am a minister, many of these folks felt comfortable enough to seek

>counseling from me, but would not feel comfortable mentioning their

>problems to others. I once lived in a house with several raw food

>vegans. Every one of them ended up with nervous disorders such as panic

>attacks. One of them went on a raw food chat board and asked if it

>might be due to the diet and perhaps they should take B-12. The moderator of

>that chat board wrote back saying that the diet is perfectly fine and

>they were just going through detox. However, I was a personal friend of

>that moderator and so I knew what the other people on the chat board

>did not know: I knew that the moderator himself was suffering from terrible

>panic attacks and was even considering suicide (he had confided that to

>me, but on the chat board he moderated he still preached the party

>line: all problems are just detox).

>

>I then read an issue of Chet Day's Health and Beyond newsletter in

>which former students of T. C. Fry wrote in and described how they had become

>crippled following his diet. I read another interview in that mag of a

>Natural Hygienist doctor who said that health problems " invariably "

>result in a 100% raw vegan diet.

>

>Then, in a town very near me, one of the founding members of the local

>raw food group died at a very young age from heart problems. My guess

>is he was about 49 or so. The doctor told his wife that the man's body had

>begun to eat itself and destroyed his heart due to malnutrition. His

>body had not been getting enough nutrition on the raw vegan diet, as he

>did not absorb enough nutrients from raw foods. When his wife shared

>that info with the members of that raw food support group, she was told

> " the doctor is wrong. And if you are going to speak negatively about

>raw foods you are no longer welcome to attend. " That was the support she

>got when her husband had just dropped dead. I then told a woman from a

>California raw food support group that story. She responded, " Oh, we

>just had a guy die from the very same thing. The doctors said his body

>had begun to eat itself due to malnutrition. I began to wonder how

>prevalent these sorts of problems really are.

>

>I could go on and on reporting similar things. But suffice it to say

>that I now believe there are problems with the raw vegan diet. And now

>that I have begun to share this sort of information, I am getting the

>exact response I have seen others get when they shared such info:

>brushed aside with some sort of negative remark.

>

>Here is what I have decided to do. I am soliciting peoples experiences,

>good and bad, with this diet. I am doing a research project. It will be

>unbiased. In three years or so I will publish the results.

>

>Last remark: I still think raw foods are great! I have thrived on a raw

>diet with yogurt for 15 years. I have friends who have thrived equally

>long including eggs in their raw diet. So, I am not against raw foods,

>I am in favour of them, but now believe their is something missing in the

>vegan form of the diet. I guess it is appropriate that, as an Essene, I

>now find myself supporting the version of the diet given by Jesus in

>the Essene Gospel of Peace (raw diet with dairy). When I was a raw food

>vegan I was embarrassed by Jesus' including raw dairy in the diet. Now

>I realize he knew what he was doing!

>

>.... if you know of anyone who

>had either a great healing/robust health or bad problems on the raw

>vegan diet, send me that info for my research project: ....

>

April 5, 2004

(My apologies for not deleting the previous text on my recent reply!

A BIG no-no, especially when we moderators remind others to do that!)

April 5, 2004

RawSeattle , " Mark Hovila " <hovila@c...> wrote:

> This interview appears on Dr. Bass's site:

www.angelfire.com/ny2/bass/generations.html

>

> Does anyone have the Oct. 2002 MTM e-mag and can they tell me who

this Essene vegetarian raw fooder is so I can find out what ever came

of his research?

I have seen the same quote elsewhere on the web attributed to Brother

Nazariah.

Karen

April 5, 2004

Hi Mark,

The person who wrote that is Brother Nazariah, he posted it to

Dr. Doug Graham's message board at

http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/messages/14817.html

http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/messages/14875.html

Doug's response

http://www.vegsource.com/talk/raw/messages/14885.html

Gabriel Cousens mentions Nazariah in his latest e-wellness letter, it

is near the bottom under the Update, third paragraph from the bottom.

Nazariah's website is http://www.essene.org/

There are a few sources for raw organic milk from grass-fed cows

and goats in Washington. You can contact the farms listed on Sally

Fallon's website

http://www.realmilk.com/where2.html

Try contacting Michael Vieira for info on his cow share program on

his Skamokawa, WA farm. I think he has locations in Seattle for you

to pick it up at. His phone and e-mail is

(360)795-3795

wafarmer302000

wafarmer302000 at dot com

Have a great day,

Mike

RawPortland

RawSeattle , " Mark Hovila " <hovila@c...> wrote:

> ... and can they tell me who this Essene vegetarian raw fooder is

so I can find out what ever came of his research? Also, does anyone

have any suggestions for a good source of fermented dairy?

April 5, 2004

Mike,

Thanks for the links!

Jeff

April 6, 2004

Hi there Mark,

Please let me know if you find a source of Raw Goat milk.

janaki

Thanks!

Janaki

-

" Mark Hovila " <hovila

Sunday, April 04, 2004 1:09 PM

[RawSeattle] Essene vegetarian raw fooder

> This interview appears on Dr. Bass's site:

www.angelfire.com/ny2/bass/generations.html

>

> Does anyone have the Oct. 2002 MTM e-mag and can they tell me who this

Essene vegetarian raw fooder is so I can find out what ever came of his

research? Also, does anyone have any suggestions for a good source of

fermented dairy? Here in WA, raw dairy is no longer legally available

unless it has been aged for 60 days, which rules out raw yogurt or milk.

Maybe I will have to get raw milk from a farmer and make my own yogurt.

>

> Mark

>

> Interview with Dr. Bass:

> Q: How well-known is it that all-vegetarianism (veganism) can

cause health trouble?

> A: Amazingly enough there is still a lot of educational work

to be done. For example, listen to this voice, from the October 2002 M2M

e-magazine:

>

> Letter to M2M from Essene vegetarian raw-fooder:

> .......

> 2) I hereby request people who have had either very good results

> (healings and/or robust health) or very poor results (health problems)

> on a raw vegan diet to briefly write-up their experience and mail it to

me.

>

> I am doing research for a book in which I will publish an unbiased study

> on the experiences people have had with the diet. This book will

> include any reports of great healings and robust health, but will also

include

> reports of people apparently crippled or whose death seems to have been

> related to the diet. If any of you know people who fall into either

> category, please request that they send me their story.

>

> I feel that an unbiased study and report needs to be done. Let me

> explain why.

>

> My own experience with raw foods is as follows. When 17, I met an

> elderly Essene man who was a raw fooder who ate dairy. He became my

> mentor and I followed his diet. We made raw yogurts and other fermented

> dairy products from mostly goat and sheep milk from animals well taken

> care of. (With fermented dairy the lactose is predigested and does not

> cause mucous and is very digestible.) I ate that diet for many years

> and was very healthy. Then, due to my attraction to the philosophy of

> veganism, I became a vegan raw fooder. I never felt as healthy on that

> version of the diet and after five years on that version I lost the use

> of my feet and was nearly crippled. I had to crawl to the bathroom. I

> had my blood tested and was B-12 anemic. I began taking B-12 and eating

> dairy. The B-12 healed my nerve problems, but I believe it was the

> protein in the fermented dairy that healed my feet and muscle tissue.

> (On the vegan version my muscle tissue seemed to be eating itself;

> after adding the yogurt my muscle tissue healed itself.)

>

> Since my negative experience as a raw vegan I have been on the mostly

> raw with fermented dairy version another five years and feel fantastic.

> Thus, all together I have eaten the raw with dairy diet 15 years,

> always feeling fantastic and being physically fit. The five years as a raw

> vegan resulted in my body falling apart.

>

> While I was a vegan I preached that philosophy with great fervor. I

> truly believed it was the best diet. Whenever I heard a raw vegan or

> cooked vegan describe health problems that they experienced on the

> vegan diet, I chalked it up to either 1) They are just detoxing; or, 2)

They

> are not following the diet correctly. But after my own negative

> experience as a raw vegan I began to honestly open my eyes. The

> following is a synopsis of what I found.

>

> Because I was by this time a " noted raw food speaker " and intimate with

> other famous raw food speakers/experts, I was often at their homes and

> getting to know them. I found that many of these noted

> speakers/experts/authors were experiencing anxiety attacks, panic

> attacks, clinical depression, and various muscle tissue and other

> problems. However, what was most troubling, is that they didn't want

> the public to know. I won't name names because that would be betraying

> confidential interactions, but many of them called me when they were

> needing some sort of advice for dealing with these ailments. Then, at

> the next big raw food conference, there that person would be, preaching

> the amazing benefits of the 100% raw vegan diet, signing copies of

> their books, and speaking negatively about cooked food eaters and those

who

> eat only partially raw or are not vegan. This was a major eye-opener

> for me. I realized that once a person is earning their livelihood and

> getting their " positive strokes " by being an author/expert on the

> raw/vegan diet, it is very hard for them to admit that the diet is not

> working in their own life. It would mean that their own books were no

> longer valid, and they would need to find another way to earn their

> livelihood.

>

> But there is another reason that raw food author/experts (as well as

> the non-famous raw vegans) do not publicly admit their problems with the

> diet. Because people have been shamed into not admitting their

> hardships on this diet, each one believes they are the only one having the

> problem. This is especially true with anxiety attacks, panic attacks,

> and depression. I have been in a room with seven raw food experts and

> had personal knowledge that five of them had been struggling with those

> problems, and yet each of them thought they were the only one. Because

> I am a minister, many of these folks felt comfortable enough to seek

> counseling from me, but would not feel comfortable mentioning their

> problems to others. I once lived in a house with several raw food

> vegans. Every one of them ended up with nervous disorders such as panic

> attacks. One of them went on a raw food chat board and asked if it

> might be due to the diet and perhaps they should take B-12. The moderator

of

> that chat board wrote back saying that the diet is perfectly fine and

> they were just going through detox. However, I was a personal friend of

> that moderator and so I knew what the other people on the chat board

> did not know: I knew that the moderator himself was suffering from

terrible

> panic attacks and was even considering suicide (he had confided that to

> me, but on the chat board he moderated he still preached the party

> line: all problems are just detox).

>

> I then read an issue of Chet Day's Health and Beyond newsletter in

> which former students of T. C. Fry wrote in and described how they had

become

> crippled following his diet. I read another interview in that mag of a

> Natural Hygienist doctor who said that health problems " invariably "

> result in a 100% raw vegan diet.

>

> Then, in a town very near me, one of the founding members of the local

> raw food group died at a very young age from heart problems. My guess

> is he was about 49 or so. The doctor told his wife that the man's body had

> begun to eat itself and destroyed his heart due to malnutrition. His

> body had not been getting enough nutrition on the raw vegan diet, as he

> did not absorb enough nutrients from raw foods. When his wife shared

> that info with the members of that raw food support group, she was told

> " the doctor is wrong. And if you are going to speak negatively about

> raw foods you are no longer welcome to attend. " That was the support she

> got when her husband had just dropped dead. I then told a woman from a

> California raw food support group that story. She responded, " Oh, we

> just had a guy die from the very same thing. The doctors said his body

> had begun to eat itself due to malnutrition. I began to wonder how

> prevalent these sorts of problems really are.

>

> I could go on and on reporting similar things. But suffice it to say

> that I now believe there are problems with the raw vegan diet. And now

> that I have begun to share this sort of information, I am getting the

> exact response I have seen others get when they shared such info:

> brushed aside with some sort of negative remark.

>

> Here is what I have decided to do. I am soliciting peoples experiences,

> good and bad, with this diet. I am doing a research project. It will be

> unbiased. In three years or so I will publish the results.

>

> Last remark: I still think raw foods are great! I have thrived on a raw

> diet with yogurt for 15 years. I have friends who have thrived equally

> long including eggs in their raw diet. So, I am not against raw foods,

> I am in favour of them, but now believe their is something missing in the

> vegan form of the diet. I guess it is appropriate that, as an Essene, I

> now find myself supporting the version of the diet given by Jesus in

> the Essene Gospel of Peace (raw diet with dairy). When I was a raw food

> vegan I was embarrassed by Jesus' including raw dairy in the diet. Now

> I realize he knew what he was doing!

>

> .... if you know of anyone who

> had either a great healing/robust health or bad problems on the raw

> vegan diet, send me that info for my research project: ....

>

April 6, 2004

The gal out in Carnation, 'Trivia' wanted someone to share in the goat care

and milking, rather than being a source of raw goat milk, but maybe that

would work for someone.

Janaki

-

" Jeff Rogers " <jeff

Sunday, April 04, 2004 4:08 PM

Re: [RawSeattle] Essene vegetarian raw fooder

> In the past, there was someone on this list mentioning she had

> available raw sheep(?) milk. You may want to look through our

> archives. This is actually a raw vegan discussion group, so there is

> not much discussion of dairy.

>

> If you don't find the information you are looking for, you can also

> check with the Essene Church (essene.org). Brother Nazariah and

> Gabrial Cousins are elder Essene ministers, though not necessarily

> who you are looking for. Even though the Essene scriptures tell us we

> should not cook our food, that does not guarantee that all the Essene

> ministers are eating 100% raw.

>

> Regarding the article, I hadn't read it previously. It sounds quite

> biased and does not offer references or documentation, only 2nd hand

> (now 3rd) information. It also seems to suggest that the raw food

> speakers should not be promoting raw foods. I, as a raw foodist, can

> tell you that my health is not perfect. I also do not eat perfect,

> though I have an understanding of a more perfect diet. I can also

> tell you, even though my heath is not perfect, It is far, far better

> than it had been when I was eating cooked foods, including meat and

> dairy. The article suggests that I should not talk about the benefits

> of raw foods if my health is not perfect. I do not know of any health

> issues actually caused by my eating raw food. Of all the people I

> know, I have not heard of health issues caused by eating raw foods,

> other than " detox " , which are temporary things. I also realize most

> raw foodists are not consuming what would be considered by natural

> hygienists as a perfect diet. That would suggest why many do not have

> ideal health. I could be included in that group, though my health is

> very good, and much better than with previous diets.

>

> Jeff

>

> >This interview appears on Dr. Bass's site:

> >www.angelfire.com/ny2/bass/generations.html

> >

> >Does anyone have the Oct. 2002 MTM e-mag and can they tell me who

> >this Essene vegetarian raw fooder is so I can find out what ever

> >came of his research? Also, does anyone have any suggestions for a

> >good source of fermented dairy? Here in WA, raw dairy is no longer

> >legally available unless it has been aged for 60 days, which rules

> >out raw yogurt or milk. Maybe I will have to get raw milk from a

> >farmer and make my own yogurt.

> >

> >Mark

> >

> > Interview with Dr. Bass:

> > Q: How well-known is it that all-vegetarianism

> >(veganism) can cause health trouble?

> > A: Amazingly enough there is still a lot of educational

> >work to be done. For example, listen to this voice, from the October

> >2002 M2M e-magazine:

> >

> >Letter to M2M from Essene vegetarian raw-fooder:

> >.......

> >2) I hereby request people who have had either very good results

> >(healings and/or robust health) or very poor results (health problems)

> >on a raw vegan diet to briefly write-up their experience and mail it to

me.

> >

> >I am doing research for a book in which I will publish an unbiased study

> >on the experiences people have had with the diet. This book will

> >include any reports of great healings and robust health, but will also

include

> >reports of people apparently crippled or whose death seems to have been

> >related to the diet. If any of you know people who fall into either

> >category, please request that they send me their story.

> >

> >I feel that an unbiased study and report needs to be done. Let me

> >explain why.

> >

> >My own experience with raw foods is as follows. When 17, I met an

> >elderly Essene man who was a raw fooder who ate dairy. He became my

> >mentor and I followed his diet. We made raw yogurts and other fermented

> >dairy products from mostly goat and sheep milk from animals well taken

> >care of. (With fermented dairy the lactose is predigested and does not

> >cause mucous and is very digestible.) I ate that diet for many years

> >and was very healthy. Then, due to my attraction to the philosophy of

> >veganism, I became a vegan raw fooder. I never felt as healthy on that

> >version of the diet and after five years on that version I lost the use

> >of my feet and was nearly crippled. I had to crawl to the bathroom. I

> >had my blood tested and was B-12 anemic. I began taking B-12 and eating

> >dairy. The B-12 healed my nerve problems, but I believe it was the

> >protein in the fermented dairy that healed my feet and muscle tissue.

> >(On the vegan version my muscle tissue seemed to be eating itself;

> >after adding the yogurt my muscle tissue healed itself.)

> >

> >Since my negative experience as a raw vegan I have been on the mostly

> >raw with fermented dairy version another five years and feel fantastic.

> >Thus, all together I have eaten the raw with dairy diet 15 years,

> >always feeling fantastic and being physically fit. The five years as a

raw

> >vegan resulted in my body falling apart.

> >

> >While I was a vegan I preached that philosophy with great fervor. I

> >truly believed it was the best diet. Whenever I heard a raw vegan or

> >cooked vegan describe health problems that they experienced on the

> >vegan diet, I chalked it up to either 1) They are just detoxing; or, 2)

They

> >are not following the diet correctly. But after my own negative

> >experience as a raw vegan I began to honestly open my eyes. The

> >following is a synopsis of what I found.

> >

> >Because I was by this time a " noted raw food speaker " and intimate with

> >other famous raw food speakers/experts, I was often at their homes and

> >getting to know them. I found that many of these noted

> >speakers/experts/authors were experiencing anxiety attacks, panic

> >attacks, clinical depression, and various muscle tissue and other

> >problems. However, what was most troubling, is that they didn't want

> >the public to know. I won't name names because that would be betraying

> >confidential interactions, but many of them called me when they were

> >needing some sort of advice for dealing with these ailments. Then, at

> >the next big raw food conference, there that person would be, preaching

> >the amazing benefits of the 100% raw vegan diet, signing copies of

> >their books, and speaking negatively about cooked food eaters and those

who

> >eat only partially raw or are not vegan. This was a major eye-opener

> >for me. I realized that once a person is earning their livelihood and

> >getting their " positive strokes " by being an author/expert on the

> >raw/vegan diet, it is very hard for them to admit that the diet is not

> >working in their own life. It would mean that their own books were no

> >longer valid, and they would need to find another way to earn their

> >livelihood.

> >

> >But there is another reason that raw food author/experts (as well as

> >the non-famous raw vegans) do not publicly admit their problems with the

> >diet. Because people have been shamed into not admitting their

> >hardships on this diet, each one believes they are the only one having

the

> >problem. This is especially true with anxiety attacks, panic attacks,

> >and depression. I have been in a room with seven raw food experts and

> >had personal knowledge that five of them had been struggling with those

> >problems, and yet each of them thought they were the only one. Because

> >I am a minister, many of these folks felt comfortable enough to seek

> >counseling from me, but would not feel comfortable mentioning their

> >problems to others. I once lived in a house with several raw food

> >vegans. Every one of them ended up with nervous disorders such as panic

> >attacks. One of them went on a raw food chat board and asked if it

> >might be due to the diet and perhaps they should take B-12. The moderator

of

> >that chat board wrote back saying that the diet is perfectly fine and

> >they were just going through detox. However, I was a personal friend of

> >that moderator and so I knew what the other people on the chat board

> >did not know: I knew that the moderator himself was suffering from

terrible

> >panic attacks and was even considering suicide (he had confided that to

> >me, but on the chat board he moderated he still preached the party

> >line: all problems are just detox).

> >

> >I then read an issue of Chet Day's Health and Beyond newsletter in

> >which former students of T. C. Fry wrote in and described how they had

become

> >crippled following his diet. I read another interview in that mag of a

> >Natural Hygienist doctor who said that health problems " invariably "

> >result in a 100% raw vegan diet.

> >

> >Then, in a town very near me, one of the founding members of the local

> >raw food group died at a very young age from heart problems. My guess

> >is he was about 49 or so. The doctor told his wife that the man's body

had

> >begun to eat itself and destroyed his heart due to malnutrition. His

> >body had not been getting enough nutrition on the raw vegan diet, as he

> >did not absorb enough nutrients from raw foods. When his wife shared

> >that info with the members of that raw food support group, she was told

> > " the doctor is wrong. And if you are going to speak negatively about

> >raw foods you are no longer welcome to attend. " That was the support she

> >got when her husband had just dropped dead. I then told a woman from a

> >California raw food support group that story. She responded, " Oh, we

> >just had a guy die from the very same thing. The doctors said his body

> >had begun to eat itself due to malnutrition. I began to wonder how

> >prevalent these sorts of problems really are.

> >

> >I could go on and on reporting similar things. But suffice it to say

> >that I now believe there are problems with the raw vegan diet. And now

> >that I have begun to share this sort of information, I am getting the

> >exact response I have seen others get when they shared such info:

> >brushed aside with some sort of negative remark.

> >

> >Here is what I have decided to do. I am soliciting peoples experiences,

> >good and bad, with this diet. I am doing a research project. It will be

> >unbiased. In three years or so I will publish the results.

> >

> >Last remark: I still think raw foods are great! I have thrived on a raw

> >diet with yogurt for 15 years. I have friends who have thrived equally

> >long including eggs in their raw diet. So, I am not against raw foods,

> >I am in favour of them, but now believe their is something missing in the

> >vegan form of the diet. I guess it is appropriate that, as an Essene, I

> >now find myself supporting the version of the diet given by Jesus in

> >the Essene Gospel of Peace (raw diet with dairy). When I was a raw food

> >vegan I was embarrassed by Jesus' including raw dairy in the diet. Now

> >I realize he knew what he was doing!

> >

> >.... if you know of anyone who

> >had either a great healing/robust health or bad problems on the raw

> >vegan diet, send me that info for my research project: ....

> >

April 7, 2004

Maybe you could drive around your place and look if somebody has goats. I live

in Bothell and I see many people have horses and ducks when I drive to work.

Janaki Rose <janaki wrote: