Guest guest Posted July 24, 2003 Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 Be sure to voice your concerns on his bulletin board: http://us.denniskucinich.us/phpBB2/ tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Hi Pete- While I understand the point you are making here, I think it is misleading to say Kucinich " endorses " horse-racing. He may be missing an opportunity to educate the public about horse-racing, veganism. etc., but he has not stated that horse-racing is a good thing in which we should all participate. That would be endorsing. " The message urges his supporters to leaflet showings of the new movie, " Seabiscuit, " not to expose animal cruelty but to encourage votes for long-shot Kucinich. " Thanks for pointing out Kucinich's missed steps. Marcy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Hi Marcy, I've gotten several e-mails that made the same point that you made. The reason I said that Kucinich endorses horse racing, when he has not explicitly done so, is because his new campaign strategy of comparing himself to Seabiscuit implicitly endorses the " sport. " In my opinion, whether his endorsement is explicit or implicit makes little difference to folks who go see the movie, apparently with his blessing, and then come out fans of the cruelty called horse racing. I may be wrong, but that's what I meant. Best wishes, Pete - " Marcy Greenhut " <imgreen03 " Pete " <plcohon; " " Thursday, July 24, 2003 11:11 PM Re: [sfBAVeg] Kucinich endorses horse racing > Hi Pete- > While I understand the point you are making here, I think it is misleading > to say Kucinich " endorses " horse-racing. He may be missing an opportunity > to educate the public about horse-racing, veganism. etc., but he has not > stated that horse-racing is a good thing in which we should all participate. > That would be endorsing. > > " The message urges his supporters to leaflet showings > of the new movie, " Seabiscuit, " not to expose animal cruelty but to > encourage votes for long-shot Kucinich. " > > Thanks for pointing out Kucinich's missed steps. > Marcy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Kucinich's biggest mistake here is political - that is, creating a mental association between himself and " a long shot " , thus striking fear in voters who generally won't " waste " their vote on someone who they perceive as unlikely to win. fwiw, i realize there's a lot of support among greens and in the veggie community for Kucinich. even though i'm vegan and i'd love for him to win, and even though he's my party's choice (i'm registered green) for a democratic candidate, i'm a howard dean supporter. i would urge others who tend to vote politically progressive to consider his candidacy. i believe that even though dean isn't vegetarian or vegan, his support for the environment and his life's work as a doctor puts him in a position to be sympathetic to our issues and agendas. the reasons i suggest considering an alterative to Kucinich (regardless of who that alternative is) are two-fold: (1) veggie publications have automatically rallied behind Kucinich, rather than opening the field or publishing " scorecards " , as is the norm among special interest or membership based groups. it's important to examine *everyone's* credentials and how they might impact the world you want to live in. and (2) Kucinich is absolutely a long-shot, and in my opinion, he stands very little chance of winning the primary. in fact, there is wide speculation that he may drop out. also, while i think it's fantastic that a vegan is running, it's unfortunate that he's not using the forum of the presidential race to " mainstream " veganism. on the rare occasions that his diet is disclosed, it's either in the context of a veggie publication (file under: preaching to the choir), or as an amusing sidebar about how " liberal " and wacky he is. not good! veg*nism needs better PR! On 07/24/03, Marcy Greenhut <imgreen03 wrote: > Hi Pete- > While I understand the point you are making here, I think it is misleading > to say Kucinich " endorses " horse-racing. He may be missing an opportunity > to educate the public about horse-racing, veganism. etc., but he has not > stated that horse-racing is a good thing in which we should all participate. > That would be endorsing. > > " The message urges his supporters to leaflet showings > of the new movie, " Seabiscuit, " not to expose animal cruelty but to > encourage votes for long-shot Kucinich. " > > Thanks for pointing out Kucinich's missed steps. > Marcy > > > > > BAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a community group for veggies to network & find > support. Free membership and lots of free events :-) See below links for more > veggie info.... > > Event Calendar, free Membership info, Charter, FAQ (/) and More! > > http://www.bayareaveg.org/ > > BAV Carpool Message board > http://www.generationv.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=23 > > Local Animal Rights groups > http://www.eastbayanimaladvocates.org > http://www.freedom4animals.org/events.html > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 This: > The > reason I said that Kucinich endorses horse racing, when he has not > explicitly done so, is because his new campaign strategy of comparing > himself to Seabiscuit implicitly endorses the " sport. " In my opinion, > whether his endorsement is explicit or implicit makes little difference to > folks who go see the movie, apparently with his blessing, and then come out > fans of the cruelty called horse racing. > is what I meant when I stated that (some members of) the group are holier than thou. I'd venture to wager (am I now endorsing gambling?) that 90% (am I now endorsing quantitative analysis at the expense of qualititative analysis?) of the slang (am I now endorsing informality?) and metaphor (am I now endorsing high-brow snobbery by using such a word?) in common (am I now endorsing low-brow snobbery?) use originate in practices users may not endorse. If a person wants to tar people for the metaphors they use, or perhaps picket their activities, such a person should, to be fair, look up every word they *ever* use in the OED, in speech or writing, to assure they are not implicitly endorsing a practice or worldviewd and thereby oppressing others. The tag line: > I may be wrong, but that's what I meant. is an admirable addition, even if late. Finally, politically, it often is advantageous to have a person who is similar to oneself in a position of power even if the person does not campaign on that similarity. How do you think it is that no President has confronted white privilege? There are lots of reasons for that, but one is that they are white themselves, and thus they have a visceral attachment to that privilege. They never campaign on that directly. But whites benefit when every policy is considered in light of the imperative that whites qua whites not be hurt, so much that that imperative need not even be stated. It would be great if a veg*n occupied the White House. At the very least, it would change the conversation, although its ultimate impact on policy is hard to predict. Hence, I doubt Kucinich is going to make it, but if I don't vote for him, it won't be because he failed to make veg*nism a platform matter. Just having him have to sign-off on legislation that provides subsidies to agricultural interests might make a big difference in what advocates can demand as the price for those subsidies, in the way of animal treatment, for example. Further, just having him sitting at state dinners, and hosting leaders from around the world, and refusing to eat animals or products from animals, could make a gigantic difference in public consciousness the world over. And, consciousness is the ultimate battleground (am I now endorsing war?). Directly (east coast) but respecftully (southern) yours, Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Dear East Coast, Extremely well put. I couldn't have put it better myself! I for one think you said a mouthful. I also think you also have a wonderfully sly sense of humor As a voter, peace activist, animal lover & human being I agree with your statements & observations 100%. Peace out~ Carla Funk San Francisco, CA SamL [saml] Friday, July 25, 2003 7:38 AM Pete Cc: ; imgreen03; SamL Re: [sfBAVeg] Kucinich endorses horse racing This: > The > reason I said that Kucinich endorses horse racing, when he has not > explicitly done so, is because his new campaign strategy of comparing > himself to Seabiscuit implicitly endorses the " sport. " In my opinion, > whether his endorsement is explicit or implicit makes little difference to > folks who go see the movie, apparently with his blessing, and then come out > fans of the cruelty called horse racing. > is what I meant when I stated that (some members of) the group are holier than thou. I'd venture to wager (am I now endorsing gambling?) that 90% (am I now endorsing quantitative analysis at the expense of qualititative analysis?) of the slang (am I now endorsing informality?) and metaphor (am I now endorsing high-brow snobbery by using such a word?) in common (am I now endorsing low-brow snobbery?) use originate in practices users may not endorse. If a person wants to tar people for the metaphors they use, or perhaps picket their activities, such a person should, to be fair, look up every word they *ever* use in the OED, in speech or writing, to assure they are not implicitly endorsing a practice or worldviewd and thereby oppressing others. The tag line: > I may be wrong, but that's what I meant. is an admirable addition, even if late. Finally, politically, it often is advantageous to have a person who is similar to oneself in a position of power even if the person does not campaign on that similarity. How do you think it is that no President has confronted white privilege? There are lots of reasons for that, but one is that they are white themselves, and thus they have a visceral attachment to that privilege. They never campaign on that directly. But whites benefit when every policy is considered in light of the imperative that whites qua whites not be hurt, so much that that imperative need not even be stated. It would be great if a veg*n occupied the White House. At the very least, it would change the conversation, although its ultimate impact on policy is hard to predict. Hence, I doubt Kucinich is going to make it, but if I don't vote for him, it won't be because he failed to make veg*nism a platform matter. Just having him have to sign-off on legislation that provides subsidies to agricultural interests might make a big difference in what advocates can demand as the price for those subsidies, in the way of animal treatment, for example. Further, just having him sitting at state dinners, and hosting leaders from around the world, and refusing to eat animals or products from animals, could make a gigantic difference in public consciousness the world over. And, consciousness is the ultimate battleground (am I now endorsing war?). Directly (east coast) but respecftully (southern) yours, Sam BAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a community group for veggies to network & find support. Free membership and lots of free events :-) See below links for more veggie info.... Event Calendar, free Membership info, Charter, FAQ (/) and More! http://www.bayareaveg.org/ BAV Carpool Message board http://www.generationv.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=23 Local Animal Rights groups http://www.eastbayanimaladvocates.org http://www.freedom4animals.org/events.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I agree. I hate to know that my first choice candidate is using horse racing to promote his campaign. It is extremely frustrating, but still he is a person who has made his own personal sacrifice, who became vegan in an environment where veganism is still unpopular and not appreciated. I think a person like this can be trusted more than others who declare they support peace and the environment, but are unwilling to practice it on a personal level. In the long run I can expect more cooperation for animal rights from a vegan than from a doctor. Lidia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I am not happy about Kucinich's use of horse racing either. But it is not likely i will support Howard Dean as long as he endorses the death penalty. Aren't doctors supposed to save lives? http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article & node= & contentId=A1907-\ 2003Jul2 & notFound=true Mud GreenKolibri wrote: > I agree. I hate to know that my first choice > candidate is using horse racing to promote his > campaign. It is extremely frustrating, but still he > is a person who has made his own personal sacrifice, > who became vegan in an environment where veganism is > still unpopular and not appreciated. I think a person > like this can be trusted more than others who declare > they support peace and the environment, but are > unwilling to practice it on a personal level. In the > long run I can expect more cooperation for animal > rights from a vegan than from a doctor. > > Lidia > > > > > > > > > > BAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a community group for veggies to network & find > support. Free membership and lots of free events :-) See below links for more > veggie info.... > > Event Calendar, free Membership info, Charter, FAQ (/) and More! > > http://www.bayareaveg.org/ > > BAV Carpool Message board > http://www.generationv.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=23 > > Local Animal Rights groups > http://www.eastbayanimaladvocates.org > http://www.freedom4animals.org/events.html > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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