Guest guest Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 As always I have been following the debate regarding whether or not to support McDonald's veggie burger with interest. But I have another question. How can animal rights activists on the one hand picket outside KFC while at the same time supporting McDonald's/Burger King et al with their money by buying their veggie burgers? I don't get it. I say, make the connection. Junk food is crap. Meat-based junk food is not only crap, it is also responsible for intolerable cruelty to animals. Companies that make their money from intolerable cruelty to animals and who also serve veggie burgers are still crap. Don't support them. Joanna Warner Message: 4 Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:35:41 -0800 (PST) john <messagesforjohn McDon*ld's >>>So, as much as I detest McD's, it's just another step towards mainstreaming veg'nism.<<< I completely agree. Vegetarian/vegan food needs to be out there & readily available, and ready-to-eat in order for the majority of people to even get to that point to give it a try. Get our food out to the masses, in a way they find palatable; that's the way to show people there is a world beyond meat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Those of us who support such burgers do so because we think that having a veggie burger at McDonalds and Burger King will reduce the amount of animals suffering more than if they didn't have such a burger. It gives the masses of people who eat at those establishments a choice. When I am leafleting, and someone says, " I love meat " I can respond with " Try the veggie burger at McDonalds. I think you'll like it. " In the past, there is very little you could say to such people because they weren't going to go out of their way to hunt down an organic, veggie burger at an out of the way natural foods store. When you buy the McVeggie it makes it more entrenched in McDonalds' plans, investments, and possibly even advertising. Having a veggie burger at McDonalds is a dream come true for most of us in the animal rights movement -- it is what we've always wanted and needed. It means vegetarianism is becoming mainstream. I am betting on the fact that vegetarianism will be embraced before the entire fast food restaurant industry goes out of business (which is a hopeful position to take since I don't see the possibility of fast food restaurants ever being eradicated as long as civilization exists). Well, I can't suggest the McVeggie in Sacramento yet (because I don't think the McVeggie is available anywhere around here), but I sure hope to be able to soon. As for picketing at KFC, that's for a specific campaign to get them to adopt better standards -- standards that McDonalds has already adopted. So, there's no contradiction. Jack Norris Sacramento > As always I have been following the debate regarding whether or not to > support McDonald's veggie burger with interest. But I have another question. > How can animal rights activists on the one hand picket outside KFC while at > the same time supporting McDonald's/Burger King et al with their money by > buying their veggie burgers? I don't get it. I say, make the connection. > Junk food is crap. Meat-based junk food is not only crap, it is also > responsible for intolerable cruelty to animals. Companies that make their > money from intolerable cruelty to animals and who also serve veggie burgers > are still crap. Don't support them. > > Joanna Warner > > Message: 4 > Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:35:41 -0800 (PST) > john <messagesforjohn > McDon*ld's > > >>>So, as much as I detest McD's, it's just another step towards > mainstreaming veg'nism.<<< > > > I completely agree. Vegetarian/vegan food needs to be out there & readily > available, and ready-to-eat in order for the majority of people to even get > to that point to give it a try. Get our food out to the masses, in a way > they find palatable; that's the way to show people there is a world beyond > meat. > BAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a community group for veggies to network > & find support. Free membership and lots of free events :-) > > Event Calendar, Charter, FAQ (/) and More! > http://www.bayareaveg.org/ > > Bookmark this page! Don't miss local events! > http://www.bayareaveg.org/events.php > > Message board > http://www.bayareaveg.org/forum > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 I ask those who support veggie burgers at McDonald's and Burger King by spending your money at those businesses to consider the possibility that you are contributing to MORE animal suffering, rather than less. Your money spent on McD's veggie burger goes into the same pocket/bank account as all of the other money spent at McD's on animal foods, and your money thereby contributes to the greater wealth and further success of the people whose business is based on (and depends on) animal suffering. You are helping the animal abusers by spending money on ANYTHING at their establishment. McD's, BurgerKing et al are already (way too) successful and widespread - while the food sellers who do not make their profit off of animal bodies or contribute to that system are too few and far between. May I suggest that you would be making a more positive contribution to the animals by supporting the latter group. Veg businesses are at some risk of not surviving without your/our support. But for the animal-support community to spend $ at McD's/BurgerKing is just frosting on their cake-you help the animal flesh business be a little more profitable. You (Jack Norris) say " Having a veggie burger at McDonalds is a dream come true for most of us in the animal rights movement - it is what we've always wanted and needed " . Most of us??? On what do you base your claim to speak for most of us? R.Belsher ---- Original Message ----- " Jack Norris " <jacknorris Monday, February 16, 2004 11:58 AM Re: McDonald's versus KFC > Those of us who support such burgers do so because we think that having a > veggie burger at McDonalds and Burger King will reduce the amount of animals > suffering more than if they didn't have such a burger. It gives the masses > of people who eat at those establishments a choice. When I am leafleting, > and someone says, " I love meat " I can respond with " Try the veggie burger at > McDonalds. I think you'll like it. " In the past, there is very little you > could say to such people because they weren't going to go out of their way > to hunt down an organic, veggie burger at an out of the way natural foods > store. When you buy the McVeggie it makes it more entrenched in McDonalds' > plans, investments, and possibly even advertising. Having a veggie burger at > McDonalds is a dream come true for most of us in the animal rights > movement -- it is what we've always wanted and needed. It means > vegetarianism is becoming mainstream. I am betting on the fact that > vegetarianism will be embraced before the entire fast food restaurant > industry goes out of business (which is a hopeful position to take since I > don't see the possibility of fast food restaurants ever being eradicated as > long as civilization exists). > > Well, I can't suggest the McVeggie in Sacramento yet (because I don't think > the McVeggie is available anywhere around here), but I sure hope to be able > to soon. > > As for picketing at KFC, that's for a specific campaign to get them to adopt > better standards -- standards that McDonalds has already adopted. So, > there's no contradiction. > > Jack Norris > Sacramento > > > As always I have been following the debate regarding whether or not to > > support McDonald's veggie burger with interest. But I have another > question. > > How can animal rights activists on the one hand picket outside KFC while > at > > the same time supporting McDonald's/Burger King et al with their money by > > buying their veggie burgers? I don't get it. I say, make the connection. > > Junk food is crap. Meat-based junk food is not only crap, it is also > > responsible for intolerable cruelty to animals. Companies that make their > > money from intolerable cruelty to animals and who also serve veggie > burgers > > are still crap. Don't support them. > > > > Joanna Warner > > > > Message: 4 > > Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:35:41 -0800 (PST) > > john <messagesforjohn > > McDon*ld's > > > > >>>So, as much as I detest McD's, it's just another step towards > > mainstreaming veg'nism.<<< > > > > > > I completely agree. Vegetarian/vegan food needs to be out there & readily > > available, and ready-to-eat in order for the majority of people to even > get > > to that point to give it a try. Get our food out to the masses, in a way > > they find palatable; that's the way to show people there is a world beyond > > meat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a community group for veggies to network > > & find support. Free membership and lots of free events :-) > > > > Event Calendar, Charter, FAQ (/) and More! > > http://www.bayareaveg.org/ > > > > Bookmark this page! Don't miss local events! > > http://www.bayareaveg.org/events.php > > > > Message board > > http://www.bayareaveg.org/forum > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2004 Report Share Posted February 17, 2004 Seems that we will continue to have these discussions and votes up or down on the subject, so I must say I'm with Joanna and R.P. on this matter. If these corporate killers wish to offer vegetarian fare at their outlets, that's fine, but I would not pass through their doors nor give them a dime of my money. I can take my non-veg friends and relatives to exclusively vegetarian restaurants, and have done so with no complaints from anyone. The vegetarian/vegan restaurants are the businesses taking financial risks to follow their beliefs and convictions. I want to support them with my dollars. I don't need to grab a veggie burger at some BK place while on a road trip--there are plenty of other tasty options easy to carry in a paper bag. The BK and McD corporations are ripping off the environment, their employees, and the animal kingdom. Bob Gotch --- " R.P.Belsher " <pbelsher wrote: > I ask those who support veggie burgers at McDonald's > and Burger King by > spending your money at those businesses to consider > the possibility that you > are contributing to MORE animal suffering, rather > than less. Your money > spent on McD's veggie burger goes into the same > pocket/bank account as all > of the other money spent at McD's on animal foods, > and your money thereby > contributes to the greater wealth and further > success of the people whose > business is based on (and depends on) animal > suffering. You are helping the > animal abusers by spending money on ANYTHING at > their establishment. > McD's, BurgerKing et al are already (way too) > successful and widespread - > while the food sellers who do not make their profit > off of animal bodies or > contribute to that system are too few and far > between. May I suggest that > you would be making a more positive contribution to > the animals by > supporting the latter group. Veg businesses are at > some risk of not > surviving without your/our support. But for the > animal-support community to > spend $ at McD's/BurgerKing is just frosting on > their cake-you help the > animal flesh business be a little more profitable. > You (Jack Norris) say " Having a veggie burger at > McDonalds is a dream > come true for most of us in the animal rights > movement - it is what we've > always wanted and needed " . Most of us??? On what > do you base your claim to > speak for most of us? > > R.Belsher > ---- Original Message ----- > " Jack Norris " <jacknorris > > Monday, February 16, 2004 11:58 AM > Re: McDonald's versus KFC > > > > Those of us who support such burgers do so because > we think that having a > > veggie burger at McDonalds and Burger King will > reduce the amount of > animals > > suffering more than if they didn't have such a > burger. It gives the masses > > of people who eat at those establishments a > choice. When I am leafleting, > > and someone says, " I love meat " I can respond with > " Try the veggie burger > at > > McDonalds. I think you'll like it. " In the past, > there is very little you > > could say to such people because they weren't > going to go out of their way > > to hunt down an organic, veggie burger at an out > of the way natural foods > > store. When you buy the McVeggie it makes it more > entrenched in McDonalds' > > plans, investments, and possibly even advertising. > Having a veggie burger > at > > McDonalds is a dream come true for most of us in > the animal rights > > movement -- it is what we've always wanted and > needed. It means > > vegetarianism is becoming mainstream. I am betting > on the fact that > > vegetarianism will be embraced before the entire > fast food restaurant > > industry goes out of business (which is a hopeful > position to take since I > > don't see the possibility of fast food restaurants > ever being eradicated > as > > long as civilization exists). > > > > Well, I can't suggest the McVeggie in Sacramento > yet (because I don't > think > > the McVeggie is available anywhere around here), > but I sure hope to be > able > > to soon. > > > > As for picketing at KFC, that's for a specific > campaign to get them to > adopt > > better standards -- standards that McDonalds has > already adopted. So, > > there's no contradiction. > > > > Jack Norris > > Sacramento > > > > > As always I have been following the debate > regarding whether or not to > > > support McDonald's veggie burger with interest. > But I have another > > question. > > > How can animal rights activists on the one hand > picket outside KFC while > > at > > > the same time supporting McDonald's/Burger King > et al with their money > by > > > buying their veggie burgers? I don't get it. I > say, make the connection. > > > Junk food is crap. Meat-based junk food is not > only crap, it is also > > > responsible for intolerable cruelty to animals. > Companies that make > their > > > money from intolerable cruelty to animals and > who also serve veggie > > burgers > > > are still crap. Don't support them. > > > > > > Joanna Warner > > > > > > Message: 4 > > > Sat, 14 Feb 2004 08:35:41 -0800 (PST) > > > john <messagesforjohn > > > McDon*ld's > > > > > > >>>So, as much as I detest McD's, it's just > another step towards > > > mainstreaming veg'nism.<<< > > > > > > > > > I completely agree. Vegetarian/vegan food needs > to be out there & > readily > > > available, and ready-to-eat in order for the > majority of people to even > > get > > > to that point to give it a try. Get our food > out to the masses, in a > way > > > they find palatable; that's the way to show > people there is a world > beyond > > > meat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > BAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a community group > for veggies to network > > > & find support. Free membership and lots of > free events :-) > > > > > > Event Calendar, Charter, FAQ > (/) and More! > > > http://www.bayareaveg.org/ > > > > > > Bookmark this page! Don't miss local events! > > > http://www.bayareaveg.org/events.php > > > > > > Message board > > > http://www.bayareaveg.org/forum > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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