Guest guest Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Thanks for the comments. Just curious - do people feel that training one's own dog (or even adopting a dog) also falls under animal exploitation? I mean could people own animals and not exploit them? Owning, training, and neutering an animal for our own enjoyment might be seen as explotation even if we sincerely want to give the animal a good home and lots of love. I'm grappling with this issue currently since I want to adopt a dog. I want to give an animal a good home, but I can't give it a " natural " lifestyle. It's hard for me to really define what is natural for a domesticated animal. If/when I adopt, I want to feed my dog a " natural " diet, but domesticated dogs aren't wolves. They've been eating human foods with us for at least several thousand years. It also isn't responsible for me to allow my dog to fulfill its natural reproductive or foraging instincts in such an urban environment where pet populations are out of control and wild foods are polluted. Thanks, Lance Sungirl590 wrote: > In a message dated 8/30/2004 10:53:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, > tlance writes: > > http://www.cavalia.net/ > > Hi Lance, > > My feeling is, it is still animal exploitation. Any animal that is being > " trained " is acting out of their own natural behavior. > > Lisa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Does training your child to read, walk, wear clothes and social etiquette fall under child exploitation? > Just curious - do people > feel that training > one's own dog (or even adopting a dog) also falls > under animal > exploitation? New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted August 31, 2004 Report Share Posted August 31, 2004 Lance Thornton wrote: Just curious - do people feel that training one's own dog (or even adopting a dog) also falls under animal exploitation? It certainly was when it all began. And continuing to breed them out of human irresponsibility or for human amusement and profit is still exploitation. It seems to me that rescuing and caring for one of these animals can be a conscientious response to the damage we've done. Similarly, I want us to stop interfering in the wild, but I support the efforts to restore the populations of species we've endangered. My feeling about living with companion animals is this: We can " train " them only to the extent that it makes their lives and ours safe and compatible. That is to say, a dog living among humans must be taught, just as we teach our children, what is necessary to get along with others -- other people's companion animals, the wild urban creatures, and human beings. When my partner rescued a dog from the pound, both she and the dog went to obedience training with a person who teaches using soft words, gestures and no corporal punishment. The only things the dog had to learn were how to be around people without jumping on them, biting them, barking at them for no reason, and to respond to the person's calls so that the dog could be called out of harm's way in traffic areas, and so that she could be kept under voice control in off-leash beaches and parks. That way, the dog got to run free, but could be retrieved if she was in danger, or if her behavior was endangering others -- wild animals, children, disabled people, etc. I find these acceptable things to teach a dog, so that the two species, dogs and people, can live together. What the humans had to learn was the dog's natural behaviors and needs, and how to care for her in a loving and healthy way. That knowledge prevented us from demanding from the dog what she simply couldn't do, or what would be unsafe or unhealthy for her. And, we had to alter some of our behaviors so that she could live with us without having to alter all of her natural behaviors. The training I find unacceptable is that which takes place solely for the benefit of humans. Using food and human approval or punishment to coerce an animal to sit up, speak, roll over, fetch, etc. Dogs love to run, and they love to interact with their humans, so I don't mind if a person throws something for a dog to run after and bring back, if the purpose is for the two creatures to have a fun interaction and promote the dog's needed exercise. But it must be the dog's choice to fetch it or not. We used to throw sticks or rocks, so that whenever the dog got tired or bored and didn't want to bring the thing back, the game was simply over and that was that. If she didn't want to fetch, there was no punishment or disapproval. Earlier, Lance had asked: Does anyone know any animal rights reasons not to attend Cavalia in Berkeley? Yes. This is the flip-side to my comments above. Shows like Cavalia take animals out of their natural settings entirely and coerce them into behaviors which bring no benefit to the animals whatsoever. The horses do things they don't like and don't choose, and would never ordinarily do, except that they've been given no option by the humans who control every aspect of their environment. The horses have absolutely no control over when, where or whether to do any of the things that go on in their lives. Even if the acts they perform aren't overtly harmful or painful, like rodeo and circus acts, and even if the training methods are not overtly harmful or painful, the purpose of the training is not the safety of the horses, nor is it to foster their ability to survive among humans in a setting where they cannot avoid us. The purpose is to amuse one group of humans and to enrich another. I believe that respecting animal rights means recognizing that the other animals are not here for our amusement, our profit, or our purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 Perhaps the distinction is domesticated ...or not domesticated animals. An animal basically kidnapped from it's natural environment, like a slave captive, and not given a loving home, but instead is imprisoned and "trained" to do stupid tricks, for our sheer entertainment, blood lust, or greed, is the line in the sand for me. A cat or dog or perhaps even a guinea pig is made domesticated out of love and sharing and caring...not the above. ParisLance Thornton <tlance wrote: Thanks for the comments. Just curious - do people feel that training one's own dog (or even adopting a dog) also falls under animal exploitation? I mean could people own animals and not exploit them? Owning, training, and neutering an animal for our own enjoyment might be seen as explotation even if we sincerely want to give the animal a good home and lots of love. I'm grappling with this issue currently since I want to adopt a dog. I want to give an animal a good home, but I can't give it a "natural" lifestyle.It's hard for me to really define what is natural for a domesticated animal. If/when I adopt, I want to feed my dog a "natural" diet, but domesticated dogs aren't wolves. They've been eating human foods with us for at least several thousand years. It also isn't responsible for me to allow my dog to fulfill its natural reproductive or foraging instincts in such an urban environment where pet populations are out of control and wild foods are polluted.Thanks,LanceSungirl590 wrote:> In a message dated 8/30/2004 10:53:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, > tlance writes:> > http://www.cavalia.net/> > Hi Lance,> > My feeling is, it is still animal exploitation. Any animal that is being > "trained" is acting out of their own natural behavior. > > LisaBAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a community group for veggies to network & find support. Event Calendar, Charter, FAQ and More!http://www.bayareaveg.org/Bookmark this page! Don't miss local events!http://www.bayareaveg.org/events.php Paris Harvey Bite Back Vegan Society 925 788 8296 (PST) Join bitebackvegan for updates, calendars, articles Now look at this...no frills "Meet your Meat" video with Alec Baldwin http://www.meetyourmeat.com/indexvid.asp?video=mym2002 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 1, 2004 Report Share Posted September 1, 2004 >do people feel that training one's own dog (or even adopting a dog) also falls under animal exploitation? I mean could people own animals and not exploit them? Owning, training, and neutering an animal for our own enjoyment might be seen as explotation even if we sincerely want to give the animal a good home and lots of love. ------------------------- Hello Lance, " creating " an animal to make it a pet, IMHO is bad. This includes paying a breeder for a pet. Rescuing an animal from a shelter, or stray, an animal that already exists, and giving it a better life (although not completely " natural " ) than it would otherwise have, IMHO is good. Mark Galecki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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