Former Vegetarians

[Guest guest]

I keep meeting people working in the environmental field and elsewhere who used to be vegetarians but started eating meat again because they felt weak or sick and their doctor told them to add it back into their diets. (Naturally, they immediately felt better afterwards!)

 

Here's a typical comment: "I’ve tried to be a vegetarian and feel as if I am starving all the time. I get skinny. I have metabolism that burns and burns, and soy and all that just doesn’t do it for me."

 

What are some good responses that I could use? I'm looking for those that are informative, scientific, and technical, if possible, in addition to being health-related.

 

Thanks for your suggestions!

Carla

[Guest guest]

Carla, did you suggest that they eat soy, as it's an excellent source

of protein? It's even supposed to have more of certain amino acids that

protein in meat.

 

If you haven't already, I would try suggesting that they eat soy and

take vitamin B12 supplements, since meat and not soy does have B12.

 

Hope this helps,

 

- Rosalind

 

On Apr 28, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Carla Din wrote:

 

> I keep meeting people working in the environmental field and elsewhere

> who used to be vegetarians but started eating meat again because they

> felt weak or sick and their doctor told them to add it back into their

> diets.  (Naturally, they immediately felt better afterwards!)

>  

> Here's a typical comment: " I’ve tried to be a vegetarian and feel as

> if I am starving all the time.  I get skinny.  I have metabolism that

> burns and burns, and soy and all that just doesn’t do it for me. "

>  

> What are some good responses that I could use?   I'm looking for those

> that are informative, scientific, and technical, if possible, in

> addition to being health-related.

>  

> Thanks for your suggestions!

> Carla 

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ____

> BAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a non-profit community group

> for veggies to network, find support and promote veganism.

>

> Events Calendar - http://bayareaveg.org/events.php

> Newsletter - http://bayareaveg.org/news

> Veg Mentor Program - http://bayareaveg.org/mentor

> Charter & Post Guidelines - http://bayareaveg.org/charter.htm

> ____

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Carla

 

I would add a couple of things…

 

In my experience, ex-veggies often-times

were not very committed to start with and have a hard time with the pro-meat

peer pressure they get. Let’s face it, it’s easier to be a

meat-eater in this culture. You have to be comfortable with being something

of a nonconformist to pull it off, more-so in some regions of the country than

others. Also, ex-veggies, again in my experience, tend not to have done

it “for the animals,” rather for personal health reasons (sometimes

environmental), and they tend to be more of the fad diet types, having tried

other diets they did not stick to either. While that’s not very

constructive to your query here looking for scientific answers, I do think this

gets to motivation which is a key factor. Vanity, being “cool,”

or weight-loss, vegetarianism just can’t hold a candle to compassionate

vegetarianism in the personal commitment made.

 

As for the “feeling better”-type

comments, it sounds like a lot of it is related to the meat “bloat”

as I like to call it. I would remind them that part of why they feel so

much more full after eating a large amount of meat is that their body is having

a hard time digesting it. Vegetable matter can pass through us in a day

or so, while meat slogs along in our bowels for more like 3 days, hence the

large amounts of colon cancer in our society. Our digestive track is

much, much longer than straight up carnivores who pass meat rather rapidly,

suggesting we are not built to consume large amounts of flesh. Also,

Americans tend to consume aout twice as much protein as their body needs

leading to multiple health problems down the road, such as osteoporosis and

other ailments. So that sense of fulfillment that heavy meat-eaters are

used to might temporarily feel “good” it leads to numerous

long-term health problems. I would also turn around the “filling”

comments by remarking that rather than being weighted down, a vegetarian usually

is lighter and better able to be more active after a meal. www.pcrm.org and www.veganhealth.org are a couple of good

sources for info on being and staying veggie and the adverse effects of

meat-based diets.

 

The last thing I have noticed in

ex-veggies is that they tended not to eat enough. They didn’t know

what to eat or their tastebuds were so selective after living on meat and

cheese for so long that they limited their diets to almost nothing. You

can’t stop eating meat and just eat less of everything else. You

will indeed lose too much weight and not be healthy. A vegetarian diet,

like any other, including meat-based diets, needs to be well-balanced with the

right kinds and right amounts of foods to be healthy. Just stopping eating

meat is not automatically healthier in and off itself. If you do it

right, it very much is healthier, and the great body of science at least hints

at that.

 

While I am just shooting from the hip

here, I hope I have offered some food for thought for future conversations with

ex-veggies

 

Peace,

David

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On Behalf Of Rosalind Lord

Thursday, April 28, 2005

2:15 PM

SFBAV

Re: Former

Vegetarians

 

 

 

Carla, did you suggest that they eat soy, as it's an excellent source

of protein? It's even supposed to have more of certain amino acids that protein

in meat.

 

 

 

If you haven't already, I would try suggesting that they eat soy and

take vitamin B12 supplements, since meat and not soy does have B12.

 

 

 

Hope this helps,

 

 

 

- Rosalind

 

 

 

On Apr 28, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Carla Din wrote:

 

 

 

 

I keep meeting people working in the environmental field and elsewhere

who used to be vegetarians but

started eating meat again because they felt weak or sick and their doctor told

them to add it back into their diets. (Naturally, they immediately felt

better afterwards!)

 

 

 

 

Here's a typical comment: " I’ve tried to be a vegetarian and feel as if I

am starving all the time. I get skinny. I have metabolism that

burns and burns, and soy and all that just doesn’t do it for me. "

 

 

 

 

 

What are some good responses that I could

use? I'm looking for those that are informative, scientific,

and technical, if possible, in addition to being health-related.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for your suggestions!

 

 

Carla

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

____

 

 

 

BAY AREA VEGETARIANS (BAV) is a non-profit community group

 

 

for veggies to network, find support and promote veganism.

 

 

 

 

Events Calendar - http://bayareaveg.org/events.php

 

 

 

Newsletter - http://bayareaveg.org/news

 

 

 

Veg Mentor

Program - http://bayareaveg.org/mentor

 

 

 

Charter & Post Guidelines - http://bayareaveg.org/charter.htm

 

 

 

____

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Carla wrote: "I keep meeting people working in the environmental field and elsewhere who used to be vegetarians but started eating meat again because they felt weak or sick and their doctor told them to add it back into their diets. (Naturally, they immediately felt better afterwards!) ... What are some good responses that I could use? I'm looking for those that are informative, scientific, and technical, if possible, in addition to being health-related."

 

 

Well.... When we tabled at We the Planet a couple of years ago in SF, I met a few ex-vegetarians that day; they had been veg for several years, but switched. Typical comments were as you said, how they felt or 'my acupuncturist recommended...'.

 

 

Personally, I agree with what David said about motivations. I have found that folks who switch to a veg diet from an ethical perspective are more motivated to remain veg than those who were became veg for health or other reasons. As someone who is not really trained in nutrition (or interested in that topic), I find it easier (and personally more convincing) to try and help people understand vegetarianism from an ethical / compassionate perspective. After all, I think even meat-eaters realize that animals suffer and feel pain; they've just blocked that. But, if anyone has any good responses from a health-perspective, please share as I would love to know some good comebacks as well. Or, Carla, maybe you can post a summary of responses you received privately.

 

 

I recently heard Dr Colin Campbell speak about his new book about the China Study. This is supposed to the greatest, latest scientific research supporting a plant-based diet. I haven't read the book, but it sounds like it might give you the answers you're looking for:

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect?tag=bayareavegeta-20 & path=ASIN/1932100385

 

(Has anyone read the book??)

 

 

There is also Dr. McDougall's website. He has a lot of health related info, and has a free monthly newsletter that you can to.

 

http://www.drmcdougall.com

 

Cheers,

Tammy

 

 

Join Team BAVeg and volunteer to make a difference..Free Restaurant Guide or Create Your Own - Monthly Event Calendar - Veggie Mentor ProgramCurrent Newsletter

Bay Area Vegetarians * www.BayAreaVeg.org

 

[Guest guest]

I have an ongoing discussion from time to time with my co-workers (we're

nurses working on an hiv research study, so we're all medical workers,

though none of us are nutritional specialists). Two of my co-workers are

very influenced by that book or set of books about blood types dictating

best diets. Can't remember the name of the book/s right now. Says A+,

the most common (at least in the northern hemisphere, I beleive) do best

as vegetarians, and I think O 'needs' to eat flesh. For those of us

who have read Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs and Steel, the history of the

evolution of the different tribes and societies on the planet kind of

ties in, in a loose way, with the 'diet by blood type' author's

review of the ancestral history of the four main blood types on the

planet. Not having read the book (the blood type book), I almost feel as

if I should read it, just to see how he arrives at the conclusions he

does. But I don't have biochem and other scientific background to be

able to grasp some of the finer points, maybe Jack Norris, you could

comment on this? It's been discussed here before, I believe, so forgive

if I'm dredging up an old topic, but I'm wondering how any of you have

dealth with folks telling you they 'tried' going veg but 'found out'

they were the wrong blood type.

 

Thanks all,

Janice

 

Message: 7

Mon, 2 May 2005 20:30:28 -0700

" Tammy, Bay Area Vegetarians " <t

RE: Former Vegetarians

 

Carla wrote: " I keep meeting people working in the environmental field

and

elsewhere who used to be vegetarians but started eating meat again because

they felt weak or sick and their doctor told them to add it back into

their

diets. (Naturally, they immediately felt better afterwards!) ... What are

some good responses that I could use? I'm looking for those that are

informative, scientific, and technical, if possible, in addition to being

health-related. "

[Guest guest]

Hi Carla,

 

Sorry for the delayed post - I was out of town.

 

I don’t necessarily have “scientific” info for you, which I know is what you are

looking for, but I have had similar problems in becoming vegetarian. For about a

9

months to a year I tried to go vegetarian, and after several weeks of not eating

meat I would start to get very sick (feeling weak, tired, cranky, nauseous,

feeling

hungry but not being able to eat much), and as soon as I ate some meat again it

went

away. Some people told me that maybe I was just the kind of person who “needed”

meat.

 

Well, I refused to believe that, so I kept trying and I asked every vegetarian I

came across if they had any knowledge of this. Almost everyone I talked to said

that

they never had any problems, they just “did it.” I even had blood tests done to

see

if I was anemic (which I wasn’t). Finally I talked to someone who was

knowledgeable

about food, and he suggested that maybe it had to do with the yin/yang

philosophy of

balance. He suggested that maybe when I suddenly cut out the meat from my diet

(which wasn’t that much to begin with) that I disrupted the yin/yang balance of

food. He told me to try cutting out refined sugar from my diet to see if that

would

help. Well, frustrated but determined (especially since I didn’t have any other

ideas), I decided to cut out all refined sugar, dairy, and meat...basically I

went

completely vegan and also cut out the sugar and much of the wheat products I was

eating. After some experimentation, I came to realize that it really was the

sugar

that was causing the imbalance. I am still vegan and feel better than ever, and

I

haven’t felt that “sickness” since then. I still eat cookies or things with

sugar in

them occasionally, but I know that for me (at least for the moment) I need to

watch

my sugar intake.

 

I guess my suggestion for what you can say in response to your friends is that

they

need to find out what works best for them. I certainly think that intention or

commitment has a lot to do with it, but I think that people (both vegetarians

and

meat eaters) tend to assume a one size fits all approach to diet and eating.

Just

because you get sick doesn’t necessarily mean that you aren’t meant to be

vegetarian, but it may mean that your body needs a different balance of food. I

don’t know how much experimenting your friends have done with their diets, but

maybe

they need to find the right balance of foods for them. Also, I find that my

style of

eating, like how much and how often I eat, changed when I became vegan. I now

need

to eat more often throughout the day. I think it’s sometimes important to

emphasize

to people that they can’t necessarily just remove meat and insert soy - they

might

need to make sure to incorporate a variety of foods to help their bodies make

that

switch.

 

On another note, I am new to the list and wanted to say hello!

 

Kristy

 

On Apr 28, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Carla Din wrote:

 

> I keep meeting people working in the environmental field and elsewhere

> who used to be vegetarians but started eating meat again because they

> felt weak or sick and their doctor told them to add it back into their

> diets. (Naturally, they immediately felt better afterwards!)

>

> Here's a typical comment: " I’ve tried to be a vegetarian and feel as

> if I am starving all the time. I get skinny. I have metabolism that

> burns and burns, and soy and all that just doesn’t do it for me. "

>

> What are some good responses that I could use? I'm looking for those

> that are informative, scientific, and technical, if possible, in

> addition to being health-related.

>

> Thanks for your suggestions!

> Carla

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Kristy's recent post (re: learning of a sugar imbalance) reminded me of some

things I learned when I first became vegetarian in the 70s. As most of us

here already know, the mainstream diet in the U.S. is not only heavy in

meat, eggs and dairy, but filled with processed foods and sugars, plus

chemical additives of all kinds. As vegetarians and vegans, we know that

the chemicals and refined sugars aren't even food and, that the human system

is not designed to digest large amounts of flesh in a timely manner. This

clogs the intestines and bowels and keeps them lined with decaying matter

for years at a time.

 

The sickness many people in this country feel when trying vegetarianism for

the first time is three things: First, it is the system disposing of all

this excess matter, releasing all manner of toxins into the bloodstream.

Understanding that this will pass, and learning of some herbal teas and

things that will speed and relieve the process could help there.

 

Second, the now cleaner system can take in more of the processed foods,

chemicals and sugars that may still be a part of the new vegetarian's diet.

People sometimes stop eating meat, but retain the rest of their unhealthy

diet. It may still be heavy in preservatives and processed carbs and trans

fats. Only the coating that used to prevent them from feeling some of the

effects has been removed.

 

Third, the newly cleaned system may now sense the food allergies that were

there all along but somewhat suppressed by the unnatural clogging of the

system that is part of eating meat and processed foods.

 

In general, I've found that people who were veg'n and reverted to eating

meat feel a sense of relief at being able to eat with their friends and

families once again and just generally not being considered weird. Only a

few have ever said to me that they wished they could have found a way to

remain veg'n. So, all this information might not even be welcome by them.

But, for those who are open to trying again and wanting to understand why

they felt less well as veg'ns, this might help.

[Guest guest]

This may be getting repetitive, but it says something I think that a few of us have spoken up about similar experiences. After several years of being vegan (so it's not just a recent change to my system), I noticed that I would feel weak, sleepy, a bit nauseous, and very hungry in the afternoon even though my stomach was full. I changed my diet from high-sugar, processed foods (e.g., a bagel, spaghetti) to whole grain foods (e.g., oatmeal), and I make sure I get protein at lunch, and the problem seems to be solved.

For protein, I wanted to remind everyone of beans! For others who work downtown, http://www.specialtys.com/specials.html lists Specialty's daily soup specials & whether they're vegetarian or vegan (their lentil soups are wonderful!) and http://www.sfsoupco.com/specials.html lists the San Francisco Soup Co.'s daily soup specials -- they have vegan split pea everyday.

BTW, have you tried Double Rainbow's new soy cream? The mint chocolate chip tastes just like I remember Bryers.

Thea

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[Guest guest]

Thea Langsam wrote:

 

> For protein, I wanted to remind everyone of beans! For others who

> work downtown, http://www.specialtys.com/specials.html lists

> Specialty's daily soup specials & whether they're vegetarian or

> vegan (their lentil soups are wonderful!) and

> http://www.sfsoupco.com/specials.html lists the San Francisco Soup

> Co.'s daily soup specials -- they have vegan split pea everyday.

 

 

Oh boy, have I had a lot of that split pea soup... :-)

 

There is also a new soup kid on the block: Soup Freaks, on Pine at

Battery. http://www.soupfreaks.com

 

They always have a vegan black bean chili (decent) on the menu every

day, and the occasional vegetarian or vegan special. Plus they use

biodegradable containers (instead of those horrid styrofoam ones at SF

Soup - I swear, I'm going to organize a protest one of these days) and

all of their ingredients are fresh and organic.

 

 

-Kim

 

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Kim Flournoy

Website Development

415-235-2986

kim