thoughts on word vegan (was Billy's Bar--the power bar with vegan honey)

[Guest guest]

Vegan Outreach is one of my favorite groups. Their philosophy about veganism totally makes sense -- it's not a purity issue, it's about reducing animal suffering. For folks not familiar with them, visit their website at

http://www.veganoutreach.org

 

Although, I have to say, I haven't had the reactions Emily discussed when I tell people that I'm vegan. I'm always surprised to find people know what it means, actually. One person asked if I had pocket compost (a reference to the Simpsons and level-5 vegan).

 

Personally, my only concern is that if a product choose to use the word "vegan", then it *needs* to be vegan. If a product wants to call itself dairy-free, egg-free, etc., that's fine with me. Words are useful to communicate clearly with others. But when the definition becomes weakened when used incorrectly, that creates a whole lot of confusion (as Melissa's email pointed out).

 

As a local organization, as local consumers, I think if we wanted, we could make a big difference with local businesses and with national businesses who are based here.

 

When dining out, I would advise to open-ended questions about ingredients. Do not rely upon using a word like "vegan" because the wait staff may not understand the correct definition as others may use it differently than you do (as we found out in the case of Billy's Bar).

 

Cheers,

Tammy

 

 

 

Best of Veg 2005 survey - http://bayareaveg.org/vote San Mateo dinner - 11/11 - http://www.evite.com//sanmateo_nov2005 Discussion Forum - http://www.bayareaveg.org/forum

 

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[Guest guest]

, " Tammy, Bay Area Vegetarians " <t@b...>

wrote:

 

>

> When dining out, I would advise to open-ended questions about

ingredients.

> Do not rely upon using a word like " vegan " because the wait staff

may not

> understand the correct definition as others may use it differently

than you

> do (as we found out in the case of Billy's Bar).

>

> Cheers,

> Tammy

>

 

Dr. Michael Greger, vegan MD, has written an editorial for Satya on

Why Honey Is Vegan:

http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html

 

I'm just picking one snippet from Tammy to respond to here. When I

dine out, I like the restaurant staff to hear the word 'vegan' for

recognition so that the next vegan(s) to come through, they have a

better understanding of their needs. But I usually spell it out like,

" does this dish have eggs or dairy? Because I/we are vegan(s) and we

don't eat eggs and dairy. "

 

I was dining with my girlfriend in Annapurna in Santa Rosa and as soon

as I mentioned 'vegan', the owner (yes, I believe the owner was

waiting on us that night) lit up, and enthusiastically explained which

dishes we could have. He came back to our table later in the night

and started asking us questions about veganism, too. I've had a

similiar experience at California Pizza Kitchen. As soon as we said

we were vegan, the waitress excused herself and the manager came out

and went through the menu with us.

 

One final word to Emily...

 

Of course it is up to you whether you choose to identify yourself as

vegan or not. However, if vegans are ever to overcome the stereotypes

and prejudices, we need positive examples to counter the negative

ones. If the only vegans that ever speak up are the loud, obnoxious,

prostelytizing vegans (shaming the rest of us into silence), then

that's all we'll ever be known as to the general public. I think a

shy vegan would make a great addition to turning the tide of popular

opinion about veganism. I also find that if I can have fun at my own

expense, especially if my digs are better than theirs, that helps

defuse the impact of their criticism, judgements, or rude comments.

(Refer to the bar scene in Roxanne where Steve Martin comes up with 20

better insults for himself than the one cast at him by some bar

patron. That really took the wind out of the bar bully's sails.) In

the end, it's your choice, but I would love to see you proud to be a

vegan (honey eating or not), instead of shying away from that identity.

 

Cheers!

Matthew

[Guest guest]

Hey y'all,

 

Regarding the " honey " thread, I'd just like to quickly

agree (at least in part) with everything everyone has thus

far said.

 

Also, in particular, I'd like to respond to Emily's

original question (

/message/10398 ),

 

>> Just curious if other people have similar thoughts.

 

....with a resounding yes. And, a few other remarks on the

remarks (sorry, I kinda lost track of who said what & thus

didn't attribute):

 

> Personally, my only concern is that if a product choose

> to use the word " vegan " , then it *needs* to be vegan.

 

Two thoughts: (1) Agreed, we do need to keep the word

" vegan " from being re-defined, and/or having its denotative

meaning lost or even relaced by connotations of something

simply negative. (2) But, at the same time, the word is

not presently cleary defined (even within the vegan

community).

 

> If a product wants to call itself dairy-free, egg-free,

> etc, that's fine with me. Words are useful to

> communicate clearly with others.

 

Oh, if only it were true. ( " Words " ... A topic I hate

talking about. Speaking about speaking is said to remove

all meaning from the words, according to the Ancients...)

 

Fighting for a single meaningful notion of " vegan " (and

even " vegetarian " ) is sadly a losing battle, but

nonetheless one that most decidedly has to be fought.

(Or, perhaps, rather than a " war to be fought " , it's better

to say a " campaign to be waged " . To speak is to fight. But

one shouldn't admit it.

 

( " Losing battle, you say? " Well, consider the simple

examples of trans-genetic " plants " that have animal

(insect, or even human) genes. Or, the previous thread on

growing " meat " in labs as if it were plants. Not to get

into that discussion, but rather just point out that

language ( & words) have a hard time retaining a clear,

single meaning in an ever-changing world. Veg*ns are

destined to disagree (sadly, quite vocally) on the

meanings, & the rest of the world will likely tune out the

racket while munching their pork rinds.)

 

> [...] if vegans are ever to overcome the stereotypes and

> prejudices, we need positive examples to counter the

> negative ones. If the only vegans that ever speak up

> are the loud, obnoxious, prostelytizing vegans (shaming

> the rest of us into silence), then that's all we'll ever

> be known as to the general public.

 

Hear, hear! I feel my personal veg*n convictions are quite

strong, but after meeting certain people who do fall into

the aforementioned category, well, you could say I lost my

appetite, to say the least. It wasn't difficult to imagine

being turned off to veg*nism, forever.

 

(I was not, by the way, " convinced " to be a veg*n by a

'proselytizer', nor by someone " accusing " me of some kind

of misbehaviour. Has anyone, really? Rather, it was a

quiet awaking to the possibility, demonstrated by example,

by people who had no stake in judging me; yet respected me

nonetheless. I miss them, actually. Yet, my underlying

reasons are still quite personal, & different than theirs.

So be it, eh?)

 

> I think a shy vegan would make a great addition to

turning

> the tide of popular opinion about veganism.

 

The Catch-22 is, of course, obvious... " Shy " people have a

hard time " speaking up " and still be examples of quiet,

determined resolution & conviction (that is not an

accusation; it's an admission). And, if/when they do, the

argument is not usually a convincing one, since it's an

unrehearsed " voice " . This is the voice of experience from

which I speak; and hence I, too, try to live by example, &

use words to provide answers to questions, not statements

nor arguments. For me personally (I'm just speaking for

myself), this has proven not only more effective... but

also less destructive...

 

cheers,

-m

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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