honey vs dairy (was Billy's Bar--the power bar with vegan honey)

[Guest guest]

" Just out of curiosity: how is honey any different than dairy? (Assuming, of course, that the cows live a palatial life with sauna, jacuzzi, HBO, etc.) "

 

It's only in a (California) dairy ad that cows live such a palatial life!

 

But, seriously, while I cannot truly speak from the perspective of a bee or a cow, I feel that I can safely say that cows are more manipulated in the production of dairy than bees, and I believe that the suffering of cows is greater. That's typically why people who do outreach on factory farming include info on dairy, but rarely on honey. Although, like dairy has numerous alternatives like rice milk, nut milks, soy millk, etc., there are easy alternatives for honey such as rice syrup, maple syrup, sorghum, etc.

 

Anyways, for folks who are new to the issue, here's the basics of why milk literally sucks:

 

1) dairy cows are artificially inseminated and impregnated just to produce milk

2) baby calves are taken away very quickly, sometimes even before they can get the super-rich first milk from mom (colostrum). both mother and baby suffer tremendously from this forced separation.

3) male baby calves becomes veal calves and female baby calves grow up to replace their moms in producing milk.

 

When we do outreach/education on factory farming, we always include info on dairy and eggs because those two industries involve terrible suffering for animals. For more info check out the East Bay Animal Advocates website:

 

http://www.eastbayanimaladvocates.org/wst_page4.html

 

Cheers,

Tammy

 

 

 

Best of Veg 2005 survey - http://bayareaveg.org/vote San Mateo dinner - 11/11 - http://www.evite.com//sanmateo_nov2005 Discussion Forum - http://www.bayareaveg.org/forum

 

Event Calendar - http://www.BayAreaVeg.org/events Generation V - Voice of the Vegan Generation - podcast and blog

[Guest guest]

(Disclaimer! The remarks below (of mine) are meant to be

ironic, and reinforce the point of the original post, and

do not mean to contradict it. Apologies to those who do

not require such a disclaimer.)

 

> Anyways, for folks who are new to the issue, here's

> the basics of why milk literally sucks:

>

> 1) dairy cows are artificially inseminated and

> impregnated just to produce milk

> 2) baby calves are taken away very quickly, sometimes

> even before they can get the super-rich first milk

> from mom (colostrum). both mother and baby

> suffer tremendously from this forced separation.

> 3) male baby calves becomes veal calves and female

> baby calves grow up to replace their moms in

> producing milk.

 

 

That's simply not true. It's PETA propaganda. Here's the

real facts:

 

1) dairy cows are not artificially inseminated just to

produce milk, it's also to produce replacement heifers, to

replace the old cows (the ones that can't meet their milk

quota, can't reliably be bred, can't chew their food

anymore (to produce enough milk).... the old ones become

hamburger or dog food)

 

2) the male baby calves do not always become " veal " --

that's emotionally laden and technically incorrect verbiage

meant merely to shock people. In truth, some of the baby

boys live an extra year, overfed a corn-rich diet to become

obese, and only then are slaughtered for steak & hamburger.

 

3) As for the baby girls, it's *not* true that they all

have to replace their mothers. The ones who do not have

the frame to be good breeders become hamburger.

 

Get your facts straight.

 

(PLEASE!!! I'm KIDDING... But I couldn't help myself. I

just read some of the e-bay " Get a President of PETA for a

Day " postings, and could help but feign their attitude...

Oh, how hostile! I'm sorry to even attempted have emulated

it.... )

 

Thanks for your indulgence...

-m

 

ps: ...though, having grown up on a farm, my " retort " is

however part of the multi-dimensional realities of

farm/ranch operations. In the most general sense (not

speaking to any person or organization in particular),

so-called " city-folk " (a term always snarled with derision)

have a hard time " ringing true " to farmer/ranchers (despite

having " seen a video " ), since nothing in this world is so

simple as 1-2-3. So even if the reality may be harsher

(albeit more complicated) than put forth, the impact of the

message is lost by its inauthenticity. Hence, the distinct

value of the " Mad Cowboy " (Howard Lyman), etc, to the veg*n

community. He has country-road-cred.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click.

http://farechase.

[Guest guest]

Here's an interesting perspective on the " how vegan " discussion started

after Warren's Green Festival experience, written by Matt Ball, a

co-founder of Vegan Outreach. It's well worth reading:

http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/ball.html

 

My apologies if this has already been mentioned. I'm traveling so it

has been difficult for me to read every posting.

 

~ Joseph Connelly

Founding Editor

 

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On Nov 11, 2005, at 11:53 AM, Michael Nielsen wrote: