Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Hi, I'm a vegan who does not eat any honey, but I would like to be able to supply people with some good facts about the effect of honey production on bees. Can anyone suggest some literature? Thanks, Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=122 FAQ on honey. Bees are not the only animals hurt for honey. If I’m talking to a person who simply cannot consider a bee an animal, I point out that bears are killed to protect honey farms. Alex On Behalf Of Meridiana246 Tuesday, May 30, 2006 3:24 PM honey: ethical problems with Hi, I'm a vegan who does not eat any honey, but I would like to be able to supply people with some good facts about the effect of honey production on bees. Can anyone suggest some literature? Thanks, Marti Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 > Bees are not the only animals hurt for honey. If > I'm talking to a > person who simply cannot consider a bee an animal, I > point out that > bears are killed to protect honey farms. > > Alex Are you saying that no insects/animals are harmed at vegetable/fruit farms? Ajay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 Vegan Outreach has some excellent articles about why activism against honey harms the vegan movement, and by extension, hurts animals: http://satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html#insects I realize that this subject is opening a huge can of worms (or a can of baby corns, if you prefer), but at least check out the articles and consider their point of view. You can still prefer agave over honey (I do) while leaving the subject of honey far away from your outreach efforts. On May 30, 2006, at 5:52 PM, Ajay wrote: >> Bees are not the only animals hurt for honey. If >> I'm talking to a >> person who simply cannot consider a bee an animal, I >> point out that >> bears are killed to protect honey farms. >> >> Alex > > Are you saying that no insects/animals are harmed at > vegetable/fruit farms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 In the case of the insects killed through pesticide on a farm, perhaps we can at least say that by spraying the farmers are only defending the crops from invasion. Organic produce might be an alternative but isn't always available and organic growers typically use either the leftovers of the slaughterhouse (e.g. bonemeal, bloodmeal), or the derivatives of the factory farms, such as manure, to fertilize the soil. Even organic farmers might use predator insects or other devices to kill invading insects. Thus we have a choice of corruptions to embrace! Additionally, it seems rodents are killed when the farm land is tilled in preparation for planting. In the case of bees, humans willingly choose to steal their production. It is a voluntary decision to harm the bees who have in no way threatened us, as their honey is not essential to human health. Alternatives include vegan organic (veganic) farming http://plantbased.org/ and hydroponics. Several farmers at my local farmers market are organic and do not use factory farm derived fertilizers. I should also add that at least a plant based diet significantly reduces the amount of farm land required per person as opposed to growing the crops to feed the animals that feed the people. Thus a plant based diet would at least considerably reduce the scope of the insect and rodent eradication on farmlands, not to mention sparing the factory farm animals. --David - Ajay Alex Bury ; Meridiana246 ; Tuesday, May 30, 2006 5:52 PM RE: honey: ethical problems with > Bees are not the only animals hurt for honey. If> I'm talking to a> person who simply cannot consider a bee an animal, I> point out that> bears are killed to protect honey farms. > > AlexAre you saying that no insects/animals are harmed atvegetable/fruit farms?Ajay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 2, 2006 Report Share Posted June 2, 2006 Thank you Steve. I thought both were excellent articles. The question is a tricky one. I have faced the question myself. It certainly is a hard point to defend to someone with steak sauce on their lips! Perhaps it would be easier to establish better credibility by giving up the prohibition on honey. On the other hand, the interlocutor might only be looking for an excuse not to change. How many are willing to be ostracized from or embarrassed at the bar-b-que? For me the general principle is that I can eat and clothe myself without relying on using derivatives of other creatures -- at least directly. Thus it seems consistent to me not to eat honey even though insects were harmed through pesticides (but not used) in the production of other food I might consume. I suspect that with present technology it might not be possible to feed 6 billion people through adherence to Jain like proscriptions against harm to others. Furthermore, I consider the abuses against factory farm animals more significant than insecticide. Some may accuse a vegan of being more concerned with animals than humans. I suspect vegans in general are more thoughtful about the human condition than the average person, but unlike the state of human civilization, which we may not have much opportunity to directly affect, by refusal to not personally financially supporting the harm to factory farm animals we can be directly thought to be saving the suffering to many animals that would occur per year, per person, on a typical omnivorous diet. --David - Steve Simitzis Ajay Cc: Bay Area Veg Wednesday, May 31, 2006 4:10 PM Re: honey: ethical problems with Vegan Outreach has some excellent articles about why activism against honey harms the vegan movement, and by extension, hurts animals:http://satyamag.com/sept05/greger.htmlhttp://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html#insectsI realize that this subject is opening a huge can of worms (or a can of baby corns, if you prefer), but at least check out the articles and consider their point of view. You can still prefer agave over honey (I do) while leaving the subject of honey far away from your outreach efforts.On May 30, 2006, at 5:52 PM, Ajay wrote:>> Bees are not the only animals hurt for honey. If>> I'm talking to a>> person who simply cannot consider a bee an animal, I>> point out that>> bears are killed to protect honey farms.>>>> Alex>> Are you saying that no insects/animals are harmed at> vegetable/fruit farms? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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