Cockroaches

[Guest guest]

I've been veg for 30 years now and I must be honest and admit that the cockroach

eating

contest, while thoroughly disgusting, doesn't enrage me. I've had cockroach

infestations

when I lived in downtown SF, even as a vegetarian with a spotless house. I say

kill them

all!! Rid the earth of cockroaches.

 

Truth is, there are way more pressing issues for me than cockroaches or even

farm

animals. Take bushmeat. Africans are eating apes to extinction. I would rather

have people

eating cockroaches than apes. I'd rather have people farm animals over apes. And

I'd

rather have people eating cockroaches over farm animals. If I could end the

bushmeat

crisis in Africa by changing everyone to be vegan, I would. But if it comes down

to apes or

roaches, let the roaches be barbequed instead.

 

My personal feeling is that endangered species (such as apes) and highly

sentient beings,

such as companion and farm animals, deserve much more protest-attention than

cockroaches.

 

I think we need to pick our battles and I think a bit of " protest " over this is

good but if this

gets out of control and the vegan movement starts sticking up for roaches, well,

it's not a

very good use of our time.

 

Would be better to encourage amusement parks to offer vegan burgers and vegan

hotdogs

rather than get in their faces about eating bugs.

 

Just my pitiful and twisted opinion.

 

Amy Caplan

[Guest guest]

The good news is that it doesn't have to be an either or situation. We can stick up for roaches, do what we can to stop people from eating bushmeat and encourage amusement parks to offer vegan burgers as well! Yes, it's true, you can do something about more than one issue at a time!

 

And when people engage in an activity like eating roaches they are becoming desensitized to the feelings of all living beings. Who knows what these folks will be doing next for fun when eating a live roach gets boring? It scares me to think of where it might end. I think discouraging people from thinking that eating and/or torturing a living creature for fun can only be a good thing.

 

Warren

[Guest guest]

Virginia Handley raises a critical point that it is important to teach children not to abuse and kill living insects for entertainment.

 

One other issue -- it is "species-ist" to dismiss the suffering of an insect or animal because someone judges that creature as not important enough to champion.

 

Every time I sponsor an anti-KFC demonstration, I get a letter from someone on the internet telling me that plight of the tortured chickens are not as important as... (fill in the blank -- another animal issue, the war in Iraq, etc.) and therefore the anti-KFC demos are trivial.

 

Every living creature should be given worth and the torture of any species should merit concern. I find the argument that the pain of any living being should be not be protested because the species in question doesn't "rank" as high as a different species or matter to the writer as a more prominent human cause to be a heartless perspective.

 

Bonnie Knight, San Francisco

[Guest guest]

The difference between your infestation and 6 Flags is that this is done for

entertainment. It has nothing to do with controlling pops or using for food.

It sends a terrible message to kids (like the stupid " Fear Factor " and

" Survivor " ) that animals can be abused/killed for fun. Kids who start out

torturing bugs may move on to animals and then on to people.

When I was about five the neighborhood kids and I poured salt on slugs to

see them shrivel. I ran to the kitchen to ask my mother for the salt

dispenser. My mom (who later answered the Animal Switchboard phone for 25

years) quietly told me, " Virginia, you know you kill the slugs when you do

that. " Of course, I didn't know that and that was the last of that

" entertainment. "

Virginia Handley

Animal Switchboard

 

 

On Behalf Of

amylynncaplan

Wednesday, September 27, 2006 7:35 AM

 

Cockroaches

 

I've been veg for 30 years now and I must be honest and admit that the

cockroach eating

contest, while thoroughly disgusting, doesn't enrage me. I've had cockroach

infestations

when I lived in downtown SF, even as a vegetarian with a spotless house. I

say kill them

all!! Rid the earth of cockroaches.

 

Truth is, there are way more pressing issues for me than cockroaches or even

farm

animals. Take bushmeat. Africans are eating apes to extinction. I would

rather have people

eating cockroaches than apes. I'd rather have people farm animals over apes.

And I'd

rather have people eating cockroaches over farm animals. If I could end the

bushmeat

crisis in Africa by changing everyone to be vegan, I would. But if it comes

down to apes or

roaches, let the roaches be barbequed instead.

 

My personal feeling is that endangered species (such as apes) and highly

sentient beings,

such as companion and farm animals, deserve much more protest-attention than

 

cockroaches.

 

I think we need to pick our battles and I think a bit of " protest " over this

is good but if this

gets out of control and the vegan movement starts sticking up for roaches,

well, it's not a

very good use of our time.

 

Would be better to encourage amusement parks to offer vegan burgers and

vegan hotdogs

rather than get in their faces about eating bugs.

 

Just my pitiful and twisted opinion.

 

Amy Caplan

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

____

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for veggies to network, find support and promote veg*nism.

 

Events Calendar - http://bayareaveg.org/events

Newsletter - http://bayareaveg.org/news

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Ultimate Guide - http://bayareaveg.org/ug

Veg Food Finder - http://bayareaveg.org/finder

Charter & Post Guidelines - http://bayareaveg.org/charter

Compassionate Living Program - http://bayareaveg.org/cl

Map It Veg - http://www.frappr.com/baveg

____

 

[Guest guest]

On Sep 27, 2006, at 7:34 AM, amylynncaplan wrote:

 

> I think we need to pick our battles and I think a bit of " protest "

> over this is good but if this

> gets out of control and the vegan movement starts sticking up for

> roaches, well, it's not a

> very good use of our time.

 

I agree with Amy, and I would add that the outrage is worse than

counterproductive. PETA is giving Six Flags tons of free advertising

over their foolish stunt, and Six Flags knows it. Virtually no one

cares about cockroaches, and in fact cockroaches are actively

detested by just about everyone. So when PETA and other animal

activists spread action alerts and press releases over this, Six

Flags knows that they're going to receive zero backlash and tons of

free press. They have no need to change what they're doing, because

it's making them money.

 

But worse, how many thousands of chickens and cows are slaughtered

for food to be served at Six Flags? If more people went vegetarian or

vegan (or even cut back their meat consumption), much of that cruelty

would be avoided. Unfortunately, PETA's hysteria over cockroaches

paints our movement as one that is neither serious nor reasonable,

which works against efforts to help shift people towards the veg side.

[Guest guest]

Steve--Wait a minute, are you suggesting that my cockroach sanctuary on

Treasure Island is not a great thing? I can't believe this!

Just kidding.

Steve, you were exactly right when you " free advertising. " That's what

this is all about. I won't go into the ethics or arguments of speaking

for any animal who is being hurt, since that's already been covered.

But I would like to explain how, in my opinion, cockroaches are helping

cows and chickens right now, if cows and chickens are your only concern.

 

By putting out a press release and action alert about the cockroach

eating contest, PETA and the hissing roaches are getting attention for

all animals. The controversy is getting tens of thousands of people to

sit up and say, " What? Hissing roaches, eating them, PETA...? " And

they then go to PETA.org. Many of them go to complain, as you did.

Many of them go out of mere curiosity. But they go. And while there,

they can't help but see information they've never seen before. They

watch Meet Your Meat, or Testing 1,2,3, or maybe Free Me. And

boom--their lives are changed forever. It happens every single day:

Someone goes to PETA.org to fuss or complain, then they see a video or

read a web feature, their eyes are opened, and they end up requesting a

free Vegetarian Starter Kit and signing up for PETA e-news. They intend

to write a quick and mean e-mail, but then end up scrolling through the

different webpages for an hour.

 

If PETA sent out a press release about all the animals killed for Six

Flags food, nobody would run the story. The animal rights movement has

to be clever, for the animals sake.

 

PETA will do anything to get people to see the websites and the videos.

Most people are not cruel, they just don't know. By speaking out for

cockroaches, PETA is getting people's attention, starting conversations,

and drawing people in. Somebody has to start the conversation, even if

it's not popular. Otherwise things continue on the same as always. A

little boat-rocking goes a long way.

 

PETA works behind the scenes by teaching companies like Six Flags how to

incorporate more veg foods into their menus to meet the demand their

getting, and by doing incredible undercover investigations that turn

slaughterhouse walls into glass walls. But it's always a challenge to

get people to pay attention, since the competition is fierce. It is a

tabloid society, and animal groups do not have the funding, the staff,

or the PR firms to compete with gigantic meat and diary companies.

You've heard of the philosophy, " Do not think about the elephant? " As

soon as you say that, people can't stop thinking about an elephant.

Similarly, PETA may use a current event or clever ploy or famous face to

get attention, and then the attention ends up focused on

www.MeetYourMeat.com.

 

One press release and action alert--no money spent on mailings or

advertisements--has generated news stories all over the country. All

those stories are free advertising and they alert people to the ideas of

animals, animal suffering, eating animals, and PETA.org. I think we

actually owe the cockroaches a big thank you, because their suffering is

helping to shine the spotlight on all animal suffering. Web hits are

up, videos are being watched, Vegetarian information is being sent out.

People who are truly cruel will laugh, sneer, make fun of animal rights

and eat a bug. But they are the minority. The majority of people will

be curious and will click their computer mouse that one extra, magical

time to see what all the fuss is about.

 

I find myself using these tactics in my daily activism, and I know I'm

not alone among BAV folks. I will use the words " heart disease " to draw

people into watching Meet Your Meat. I will use vegan chocolate cream

pie to start a conversation. I have no problem bringing up something

super controversial if it can open a conversation into animal suffering.

 

 

In a perfect world, people would know how animals suffer, they would

care, they would change their buying habits. But that doesn't happen

and animal rights activists have to get very creative to get that

process started. And yes, cockroaches feel pain too. We can politely

" un-invite " them from our homes without being cruel:

http://www.helpinganimals.com/wildlife_livingWithRoaches.asp

 

Alex

 

 

On Behalf

Of Steve Simitzis

Thursday, September 28, 2006 3:42 AM

amylynncaplan

Cc:

Re: Cockroaches

 

 

On Sep 27, 2006, at 7:34 AM, amylynncaplan wrote:

 

> I think we need to pick our battles and I think a bit of " protest "

> over this is good but if this

> gets out of control and the vegan movement starts sticking up for

> roaches, well, it's not a very good use of our time.

[Guest guest]

I support Peta in the outrage of what Six Flags is committing.People continue to disregard the lives of animals out of callous, uncaring ignorance that is supported by a culturally institutionalized degradation, equally people disregard cockroaches out of another culturally institutionalized practice of ignorance and callous violence."It's okay to kill a bug!"Even when many people use the word cockroach it is used in defamation and in disgust.Realize the negative nature of that association is an entirely contrived cultural miseducation that stems from the very kind of cultural acceptance of killing other creatures.I value the life of animals and I equally value the life of insects and bugs.Everything has intelligence and we are all sharing this world in the experience of life.To distinguish one living being as not deserving of the same protections we are demanding for another is entirely hypocritical.Six Flags comment how their action is a

mere "stunt" and acceptable because other entertainment sources are doing the same is repulsive.They already show a complete disregard for life with the serving of butchered animals and now are increasingly their violent perpetuation targeting children by including Madagascan Cockroaches as acceptable to be tortured and destroyed..It is unacceptable.-nikki leeSteve Simitzis <steve wrote: On Sep 27, 2006, at 7:34 AM, amylynncaplan wrote: > I think we need to pick our battles and I think

a bit of "protest" > over this is good but if this > gets out of control and the vegan movement starts sticking up for > roaches, well, it's not a > very good use of our time. I agree with Amy, and I would add that the outrage is worse than counterproductive. PETA is giving Six Flags tons of free advertising over their foolish stunt, and Six Flags knows it. Virtually no one cares about cockroaches, and in fact cockroaches are actively detested by just about everyone. So when PETA and other animal activists spread action alerts and press releases over this, Six Flags knows that they're going to receive zero backlash and tons of free press. They have no need to change what they're doing, because it's making them money. But worse, how many thousands of chickens and cows are slaughtered for food to be served at Six Flags? If more people went vegetarian or vegan (or

even cut back their meat consumption), much of that cruelty would be avoided. Unfortunately, PETA's hysteria over cockroaches paints our movement as one that is neither serious nor reasonable, which works against efforts to help shift people towards the veg side. I offer understandingwherever I

am standing;between reason, passion, balance.

[Guest guest]

Unfortunately, its perception that matters, not facts. Not to get too political about this, but its something that the Right finally realized about 20 years ago and the Left is only slowly waking up to. In other words, it doesn't matter even if cockroaches are the friendliest, most sensitive, most environmentally benign animals around. As long as the public's perception of them is they are vermin, you're going to be pissing in the wind to get any kind of meaningful public support on this issue. If you really believe that roaches are whatever you say they are then your first task is to change public perception of them. Absent that, going and picketing at 6 Flags is going to acheive very little, and in fact, as others have pointed out,

will probably damage the bigger cause.Someone said that the battle to save apes in Africa and the fight to save roaches are not mutually exclusive. Perhaps not in principle. But in practice they are. It takes time and effort to protest something, to organize that protest. We all have limited time. When you ask John Veggieater to show up at the roach protest, and he does, that's time that he might otherwise have committed to showing up at a Save the Apes protest. We have to pick our battlesRegarding the claim that people who are cruel enough to eat roaches, would then go onto bite the heads off kittens and then its only one step to eating babies. Again, if you really believe that, you need to find the evidence for it, and change public perception to believe that, *before* you ask the public to stop eating live roaches.Now for my personal opinion. That doesn't mean I think they ought to be eaten (alive or dead!). My personal opinion? I think

roaches are vermin and personally, if I was asking John Veggieater to take some time out of his day to protest something I'd rather ask him to show up to protest something like ape poaching or this on tiger poaching from todays San Jose Mercury Newshttp://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/world/15627871.htmTigers and Apes are in genuine danger of disappearing because of human vanity and greed (and of course mismanagement). Roaches (sad to say) will be here long after we've wiped ourselves outSo I say pick your battlesJust my 2ccheers

[Guest guest]

I have been reading these posts with mixed feelings. I have one small point to make and I hope to keep it brief. As a person with little spare time and as a member of the non-human animal-rights community, I do look to help wherever I can with the little time that I have. Some people believe that our efforts are better spent on the " larger " issues, such as sentient beings. Although I am not sure I agree one way or the other, I do have a definite position about the use of my time. When I protest the poaching of animals in another country by demonstrating outside of an American-based consulate, I never walk away feeling that my actions had any real impact. I am protesting to some bureaucrat in another country who will never see or hear me. But when I wrote to Six Flags, I knew that not only did they hear me, they would be much more inclined to respond to my letter, than had my letter been written by a person a thousand miles away and half-way around the globe. It is important that when we take on seemingly monumental tasks-- such as attempting to change perceptions about nonhuman animals-- that we do so in ways that are personally satisfying and help us maintain our hope and commitment to the cause. For some that means saving cockroaches, dogs AND monkeys. For others, that means thinking solely about tigers. Each person is different and it is this variation that should help spur us on.

Regards,

-- M. Mello " This is my protest against the conduct of the world. To be a vegetarian is to disagree--to disagree with the course of things today. Starvation, world hunger, cruelty, waste, wars--we must make a statement against these things. Vegetarianism is my statement and I think it's a strong one. " -- Isaac Bashevis Singer

[Guest guest]

Amy and others --

 

I totally see your point, in that what I sense in your post is a

frustration with the overwhelming amount of cruelty, ignorance, and

violence present in our world today. Where do we begin to fight? How

do we choose our battles? What happens when you're just plain tired

of reading labels and hunting down

environmentally/politically/socially/veg-correct food, clothing, etc.?

How do you deal with reading about people you want to feel compassion

for, who are doing horrible things to animals in the name of survival?

What is the most important fight?

 

For me, and I am no expert but just thought I'd share how I try to

cope, I just try to take things one day at a time. I guess it's

cliche, but it really helps. On the day I read the post about Six

Flags and their ridiculous, pandering response, I was angry enough to

write an email of my own (I pasted it below, still haven't received

response).

 

Every day we have a chance to do something small that could have some

kind of impact. I think the idea of " ranking priorities " is in many

ways a patriarchal one that we have all been indoctrinated with --

evaluate, choose best and worst, etc. -- we don't have to buy into

that mindset. We all matter, and what we do matters.

 

Better to light a candle than to curse the darkness -- I hang onto

that every day.

 

Namaste -- Karen

 

(Sent to Six Flags)

Hello -

 

I have seen your canned response to those writing you to

protest the cockroach-eating gimmick you have created in the name of

generating media attention and attendance. While that is obviously the

goal of marketing, everyone involved in marketing needs to assess

where their line of ethics is drawn and put those ethics above greed.

 

Your response notes that, basically, other animals are eaten for

nutrition. There is a vast difference between eating animals for

nutrition (something I also oppose given the inherent cruelty in

today's meatpacking and producing industries) and urging people to eat

them for entertainment and self-promotion (moving to the head of the

line). This " gross out " marketing is abhorrent ethically and makes our

nation's culture little more than a cesspool. Why are you

contributing to it with this needless event?

 

Please, reconsider your obligation as a leading amusement franchise to

demonstrate truly family-friendly policies that do NOT promote cruelty

and degrade the human spirit and American culture.

 

What does your organization want to be know and remembered for, long

after today's executives are gone?

 

Thank you for your time and consideration. I would appreciate a

personal response to the points I have made.

Karen Witham