Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Dear Tammy, and Everyone Else -Sadly, I thank you for sharing your recent deceitful restaurant experiences.How damn disheartening to not be able to trust in one's standards being respected, let alone in being told the plain truth, consistently --especially at an establishment whose implicit intention it is to do just that.Actually, I am not shocked. My impression has been that answers provided may very well be in response to tone of the question. As in: [enthusiastically] Is this dish made with eggs? --could illicit a bright Yes! Whereas, in asking about the same dish, [earnestly] This doesn't have any eggs in it, does it? --could bring a stern, head-shaking No. No egg.As for what-to-do, I arrive at your same course: to quit eating out at these places. (Sad to hear of Panhandle Pizza's closing. My understanding was, at least, that they were for real.)I am wondering also of the possible value of bringing this grievance to the direct attention of Shangri-La and Bok Choy Garden --not as a punitive act, but as explanation for disappointment and withdrawal of patronage. Might they then be motivated to clean up their act --believably?Lester Lester Yagodalesyag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 I'm with Lester. I've always thought that boycotting a product or place without communicating why isn't very helpful. The business then has no idea why patronage has declined, if they even notice that it has. I always think it's helpful to complain & explain directly to Shangri-La, Bok Choy Garden, or whoever/whatever, whether or not you plan to return. - Lisa On 9/23/07, Lester Yagoda <lesyag wrote: > Dear Tammy, and Everyone Else - > > Sadly, I thank you for sharing your recent deceitful restaurant experiences. > I am wondering also of the possible value of bringing this grievance to the > direct attention of Shangri-La and Bok Choy Garden --not as a punitive act, > but as explanation for disappointment and withdrawal of patronage. Might > they then be motivated to clean up their act --believably? > > Lester -- " Animals are my friends and I don't eat my friends " - George Bernard Shaw " The reasonable (person) adapts (herself/himself) to the world; the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to (herself/himself). Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable (person). " - George Bernard Shaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 I'm with everyone here.I would suggest a written letter as opposed to verbal communication to avoid language barriers.Ciao,ClydeOn 9/24/07, Lisa Herzstein <lisavegansf wrote: I'm with Lester. I've always thought that boycotting a product or place without communicating why isn't very helpful. The business then has no idea why patronage has declined, if they even notice that it has. I always think it's helpful to complain & explain directly to Shangri-La, Bok Choy Garden, or whoever/whatever, whether or not you plan to return. - Lisa On 9/23/07, Lester Yagoda <lesyag wrote: > Dear Tammy, and Everyone Else - > > Sadly, I thank you for sharing your recent deceitful restaurant experiences. > I am wondering also of the possible value of bringing this grievance to the > direct attention of Shangri-La and Bok Choy Garden --not as a punitive act, > but as explanation for disappointment and withdrawal of patronage. Might > they then be motivated to clean up their act --believably? > > Lester -- " Animals are my friends and I don't eat my friends " - George Bernard Shaw " The reasonable (person) adapts (herself/himself) to the world; the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to (herself/himself). Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable (person). " - George Bernard Shaw -- Clyde Lerner, In The Moment Computing, Our NEW Office Phone: 408.732.8500 www.ITMComputing.com " We relieve your Technology Stress " Check out the folks we use to relieve our technology stress: www.ITMPartners.comOur Birthday/Anniversary Reminder System: http://www.sendcardswithease.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 I also feel deeply disillusioned that Bok Choy Garden puts actual cheese in their Tofu Cheese Rolls, a dish that I have eaten numerous times over the years. Actually, I would say I'm downright angry: they either don't understand the meaning of the word " vegan, " or they don't care. This shows an incredible lack of respect for their loyal customers (like me, a Richmond District resident for 8 years) and the cows who suffer a lifetime of pain, deprivation, and confinement to produce the milk for that cheese before being slaughtered for hamburger meat. I agree with Lester that these restaurants should know that they have failed the vegan community. However, while I would support an effort to inform them, I myself will probably never eat at either of them again. Bok Choy Garden and Shangri-La have been around for years, and by this point should know better: they have earned a lifetime boycott, as far as I'm concerned. I would much rather give my money to restaurants that sincerely follow the definition of vegan (if you can be sure they do) without having to be educated about our values. I believe inconsiderate restaurants will continue to lie until they are held truly accountable for their actions. One way to do so is for customers to let them know they have lost our trust and therefore our business: forever. If there are others who would like to, say, collectively send them a letter stating this, I would be interested in signing. When other restaurants hear that people are refusing to eat at such places, they will get the message that the vegan community is serious about sticking by our principles, and that we will not be taken advantage of. Some may recognize that being extra-careful about ingredients is a major selling point for attracting vegan patrons. In addition, if there was some legal recourse we could take, I would actually support that course of action. Vegetarians successfully sued McDonald's because they claimed their fries were vegetarian, conveniently omitting the fact that they were flavored with beef tallow. Yet I doubt the practicality of a legal approach, as it would probably be a wasted effort. Still, I think it's a shame that restaurants can blatantly lie about the food they are serving without legal repercussions. The issue of whether to give these restaurants another chance is a matter of personal opinion. Some might say that we should support vegan restaurants because their survival is so important to the movement, and so tenuous in the first place. While I agree with the premise that the more vegan restaurants there are, the more support there is for a compassionate lifestyle, I would argue that Bok Choy Garden and Shagri-La are not really vegan restaurants. Anyway, I think people should do whatever they think is best. However, if you do patronize either of these establishments, please let the management know in your own way that it is seriously offensive to us and damaging to our cause to call something vegan when it clearly contains animal products. p.s., The Tofu Cheese Rolls have been my favorite dish at Bok Choy since I discovered the restaurant's existence in 1999. However, I found that I didn't like their taste very much since the new management took over (the texture being more soft and gooey than before), and only ordered it like twice in that time. Based on my long experience with this restaurant, I strongly suspect that cheese was added to this recipe when the new owners bought the place. Mat Thomas www.animalrighter.org On 9/23/07, Lester Yagoda <lesyag wrote: Dear Tammy, and Everyone Else - Sadly, I thank you for sharing your recent deceitful restaurant experiences. How damn disheartening to not be able to trust in one's standards being respected, let alone in being told the plain truth, consistently --especially at an establishment whose implicit intention it is to do just that. Actually, I am not shocked. My impression has been that answers provided may very well be in response to tone of the question. As in: [enthusiastically] Is this dish made with eggs? --could illicit a bright Yes! Whereas, in asking about the same dish, [earnestly] This doesn't have any eggs in it, does it? --could bring a stern, head-shaking No. No egg. As for what-to-do, I arrive at your same course: to quit eating out at these places. (Sad to hear of Panhandle Pizza's closing. My understanding was, at least, that they were for real.) I am wondering also of the possible value of bringing this grievance to the direct attention of Shangri-La and Bok Choy Garden --not as a punitive act, but as explanation for disappointment and withdrawal of patronage. Might they then be motivated to clean up their act --believably? Lester Lester Yagoda lesyag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2007 Report Share Posted September 24, 2007 Mat & All, I intend to never go back either. Mat, I've been a long time loyal customer of both places. Ugh. They're actually idiotic to lie. I know most places don't care about vegans, but not thinking about legal consequences about people with allergies who could actually die is dumb on their part. Practically if not ethically. I'm saying that whether people go back or not, they should let the restaurants know their feelings. My never going back might not even be noticed if I don't tell them why they've lost my business. I like Mat's idea of a group letter/petition, although many individual letters could be effective as well. As far as legal action, McDonalds is a huge corporation; these guys are little and unless we could show actual harm, I doubt anyone would take a case. Yes, I feel very harmed, but doubt that would fly legally. Anyway, thanks Tammy for giving out this information! - Lisa On 9/24/07, Mat Thomas <ma> wrote: > However, while I would support an effort to inform > them, I myself will probably never eat at either of them again. Bok Choy > Garden and Shangri-La have been around for years, and by this point should > know better: they have earned a lifetime boycott, as far as I'm concerned. > > I believe inconsiderate restaurants will continue to lie until they are held > truly accountable for their actions. One way to do so is for customers to > let them know they have lost our trust and therefore our business: forever. > If there are others who would like to, say, collectively send them a letter > stating this, I would be interested in signing. When other restaurants hear > that people are refusing to eat at such places, they will get the message > that the vegan community is serious about sticking by our principles, and > that we will not be taken advantage of. Some may recognize that being > extra-careful about ingredients is a major selling point for > attracting vegan patrons. > > In addition, if there was some legal recourse we could take, I would > actually support that course of action. Vegetarians successfully sued > McDonald's because they claimed their fries were vegetarian, > conveniently omitting the fact that they were flavored with beef tallow. Yet > I doubt the practicality of a legal approach, as it would probably be a > wasted effort. Still, I think it's a shame that restaurants can blatantly > lie about the food they are serving without legal repercussions. -- " Animals are my friends and I don't eat my friends " - George Bernard Shaw " The reasonable (person) adapts (herself/himself) to the world; the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to (herself/himself). Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable (person). " - George Bernard Shaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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