Guest guest Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 I gained 10 pounds in the first 4 months of a pregnancy that recently ended in miscarriage. That was about a month ago and I am still not losing any of that weight even though I am eating whole food all vegan food. I am drinking about a glass of wine a night though. I was going to try Eat to Live but I am afraid that it will not sustain my training regimen (I am training for the Big Sur Marathon in April). McDougall is more up my alley with more carbs but I do want to lose those extra pounds while my mileage is on the lower side (I am at about 20 miles a week now). Does anyone have any suggestions for me? Modify any of the plans? Follow one of them? Thanks in advance! Btw, this is my normal day: Breakfast: 1 cup raw oatmeal, ½ banana and ¼ cup of blueberries, TJ’s rice milk, ½ Tbl flaxmeal Calcium fortified OJ Coffee w/rice milk Snack: fruit and spinach (1/2 cup) smoothie or 10 low fat rice crisps with homemade hummus (no oil) Lunch: 2 cups chana marsala (spinach, tomatoes, ¼ cup brown rice, Chick peas, no oil) Dinner: 3 corn tortillas (soft taco size), 1 cup black beans, ½ avo, salsa 8 oz red wine Sometimes I have a dinner with less carbohydrates….like the chana marsala dish or a black bean soup. I could handle a salad somewhere in there but I haven’t found a salad dressing that I enjoy at all that is oil free. Kelli Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 28, 2007 Report Share Posted November 28, 2007 Kelli -- I would suggest more veggies and less wine and flour products. When I lost weight (never overweight, but wanted my BMI down) I switched closer to the McDougall Maximum Weight Loss program (no refined flour, daily limits on beans & fruit), added more low-fat veggies, and cut back on alcohol. (Also ramped up exercise, but you have that covered.) Obviously someone can't live on just low-cal veggies. But the recommendation is for one-third to two-thirds of your plate to be those. I don't think it is just a function of filling yourself up with such things -- it seems like the added fiber does something to one's metabolism and helps the weight come off. Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Does refined flour include brown rice flour? Thanks! Nichole, in Dallas-ishhathor42 <hathor42 wrote: Kelli --I would suggest more veggies and less wine and flour products. When I lost weight (never overweight, but wanted my BMI down) I switched closer to the McDougall Maximum Weight Loss program (no refined flour, daily limits on beans & fruit), added more low-fat veggies, and cut back on alcohol. (Also ramped up exercise, but you have that covered.)Obviously someone can't live on just low-cal veggies. But the recommendation is for one-third to two-thirds of your plate to be those. I don't think it is just a function of filling yourself up with such things -- it seems like the added fiber does something to one's metabolism and helps the weight come off.Diane Nichole in Little Elm, TX "The animals of the world exist for their own reasons. They were not made for humans any more than black people were made for whites or women for men." -alice walker Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 , Nichole <ms_fausey wrote: > > Does refined flour include brown rice flour? > > Thanks! > > Nichole, in Dallas-ish Yes. Here is one comparison of the regular and MWL McDougall diets: http://www.fatfree.com/diets/mcdougall.html I have to figure out where I got the idea that beans are limited. In some book of his he has a limit of 1 cup per day. But it isn't shown on this chart. The bean limit, thinking of it, would be more related to avoiding too much protein than weight loss I would think. I don't have the time now, but I'll look later on today and see if I can find an explanation ... Diane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 I've had the time to go back and do some research. In Dr. McDougall's Maximum Weight Loss book, he says the following (pp.61-2): " Eat your grains whole. Eliminate breads, bagels, pastas, pretzels, crackers, and corn and wheat tortillas. In general, the less a food is processed, the better for weight loss. Grinding changes two major characteristics of the food: First and most important, grinding a whole grain into flour increases the surface area of the food exposed to the intestinal tract, which increases the amount of nutrition absorbed in the intestines. This also increases the rate at which carbohydrates enter the bloodstream, where they raise insulin and blood sugar. Grinding a whole grain into flour increases absorption of calories and the rise in blood sugar and insulin by three to four times. Second, grinding disrupts the dietary fiber, thereby reducing its ability to slow absorption, lower insulin, regulate blood sugar, satisfy appetitie, and enhance elimination. " For similar reasons, he also recommends regular consumption of raw vegetables and that the two fruits a day allowed be uncooked. (BTW the fruit should not be dried, pureed or in the form of juice.) There is no restriction of legumes in this book (copyright 1994). In the Healthy Heart book (copyright 1996), he says (p.83) that " ... you should limit your beans, peas, and lentils to one cup a day, on the average, to protect yourself from any adverse effects of too much protein and the possible loss of calcium from your bones. " By 1999 in the Women's Program book, he says (p. 30) that: " Legumes, such as beans, peas, lentils, and other high protein vegetable foods must be severely limited by people with liver or kidney failure and those with osteoporosis or kidney stones. " By his January 2004 newsletter, though, he is clearly drawing a distinction between animal and vegetable protein, the former being higher in sulfur-containing amino acids and thus harder on the body. I've heard that calcium leaching starts around 75 to 90 grams of protein a day (at least with animal protein, which is what predominates in our country). The actual RDA is 45 (women) and 56 (men), which were set above the minimum 15 and 20 grams found by study. (For comparison, the average US consumption is around 110, and high protein diets can get up to 200 or 300.) To get at these higher, dangerous levels (at least for osteoporosis -- I don't know about the other diseases) one would have to eat a heck of a lot of beans! Some studies I found when I was researching this once ... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=ShowDetailView & TermToSearch=8610662 & ordinalpos=1 & itool=E ntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=ShowDetailView & TermToSearch=11124760 & ordinalpos=1 & itool= EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/59/6/1356 (notice that the moderate protein diet here is 95 grams, less than the SAD, and shows calcium loss; the " high protein " diet is worse and only has 120 grams, much less that many Atkins adherents have; none of the diets in this study avoided animal protein) All this is my roundabout way of saying I don't see a need to limit vegetable protein unless you have a doctor saying your medical condition requires it. (I do like my legumes LOL) Since my mother has osteoporosis and my sister osteopenia, it is a subject that concerns me. Sorry to go off on this tangent. But once I said something I thought I should clarify the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 This is very helpful information thank you. I have been basically trying to follow Eat to live but finding that it is too limiting with my high mileage (burning upwards of 1000 calories during some runs) but I don’t want to eat the wrong carbs either and end up gaining weight during the training. I think that eliminating all processed foods but not limiting carbs per se (besides too much fruit) would be what I should do…and on occasion adding some flax and avo. I am scared of nuts! I don’t want to end up undereating and I am scared I would do that with a more “eat to live” sort of diet. Kelli On Behalf Of hathor42 Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:10 AM Re: athlete but need to lose weight I've had the time to go back and do some research. In Dr. McDougall's Maximum Weight Loss book, he says the following (pp.61-2): " Eat your grains whole. Eliminate breads, bagels, pastas, pretzels, crackers, and corn and wheat tortillas. In general, the less a food is processed, the better for weight loss. Grinding changes two major characteristics of the food: First and most important, grinding a whole grain into flour increases the surface area of the food exposed to the intestinal tract, which increases the amount of nutrition absorbed in the intestines. This also increases the rate at which carbohydrates enter the bloodstream, where they raise insulin and blood sugar. Grinding a whole grain into flour increases absorption of calories and the rise in blood sugar and insulin by three to four times. Second, grinding disrupts the dietary fiber, thereby reducing its ability to slow absorption, lower insulin, regulate blood sugar, satisfy appetitie, and enhance elimination. " For similar reasons, he also recommends regular consumption of raw vegetables and that the two fruits a day allowed be uncooked. (BTW the fruit should not be dried, pureed or in the form of juice.) There is no restriction of legumes in this book (copyright 1994). In the Healthy Heart book (copyright 1996), he says (p.83) that " ... you should limit your beans, peas, and lentils to one cup a day, on the average, to protect yourself from any adverse effects of too much protein and the possible loss of calcium from your bones. " By 1999 in the Women's Program book, he says (p. 30) that: " Legumes, such as beans, peas, lentils, and other high protein vegetable foods must be severely limited by people with liver or kidney failure and those with osteoporosis or kidney stones. " By his January 2004 newsletter, though, he is clearly drawing a distinction between animal and vegetable protein, the former being higher in sulfur-containing amino acids and thus harder on the body. I've heard that calcium leaching starts around 75 to 90 grams of protein a day (at least with animal protein, which is what predominates in our country). The actual RDA is 45 (women) and 56 (men), which were set above the minimum 15 and 20 grams found by study. (For comparison, the average US consumption is around 110, and high protein diets can get up to 200 or 300.) To get at these higher, dangerous levels (at least for osteoporosis -- I don't know about the other diseases) one would have to eat a heck of a lot of beans! Some studies I found when I was researching this once ... http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=ShowDetailView & TermToSearch=8610662 & ordinalpos=1 & itool=E ntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd=ShowDetailView & TermToSearch=11124760 & ordinalpos=1 & itool= EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/59/6/1356 (notice that the moderate protein diet here is 95 grams, less than the SAD, and shows calcium loss; the " high protein " diet is worse and only has 120 grams, much less that many Atkins adherents have; none of the diets in this study avoided animal protein) All this is my roundabout way of saying I don't see a need to limit vegetable protein unless you have a doctor saying your medical condition requires it. (I do like my legumes LOL) Since my mother has osteoporosis and my sister osteopenia, it is a subject that concerns me. Sorry to go off on this tangent. But once I said something I thought I should clarify the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 nuts that are not roasted or salted can be soaked for a while (not long enough to be saturated) to make them less hard and dry, and therrefore more bioavailable. nuts can save you when traveling with no hint of a healthy airline snack on the horizon, they are also a given for car trips, kids games, and for energy alone. why buy tamari almonds for example when you can do them at home. or make a mixed bag of walnuts, raisins and carob chips. why can't this be a good snack before a run?? hope this helps! Kelli <KelliJohnston Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:21:26 PMRE: Re: athlete but need to lose weight This is very helpful information thank you. I have been basically trying to follow Eat to live but finding that it is too limiting with my high mileage (burning upwards of 1000 calories during some runs) but I don’t want to eat the wrong carbs either and end up gaining weight during the training. I think that eliminating all processed foods but not limiting carbs per se (besides too much fruit) would be what I should do…and on occasion adding some flax and avo. I am scared of nuts! I don’t want to end up undereating and I am scared I would do that with a more “eat to live” sort of diet. Kelli [fatfree_ vegan@ s.com] On Behalf Of hathor42 Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:10 AM Re: athlete but need to lose weight I've had the time to go back and do some research. In Dr. McDougall's Maximum Weight Loss book, he says the following (pp.61-2): "Eat your grains whole. Eliminate breads, bagels, pastas, pretzels, crackers, and corn and wheat tortillas. In general, the less a food is processed, the better for weight loss. Grinding changes two major characteristics of the food: First and most important, grinding a whole grain into flour increases the surface area of the food exposed to the intestinal tract, which increases the amount of nutrition absorbed in the intestines. This also increases the rate at which carbohydrates enter the bloodstream, where they raise insulin and blood sugar. Grinding a whole grain into flour increases absorption of calories and the rise in blood sugar and insulin by three to four times. Second, grinding disrupts the dietary fiber, thereby reducing its ability to slow absorption, lower insulin, regulate blood sugar, satisfy appetitie, and enhance elimination. " For similar reasons, he also recommends regular consumption of raw vegetables and that the two fruits a day allowed be uncooked. (BTW the fruit should not be dried, pureed or in the form of juice.) There is no restriction of legumes in this book (copyright 1994). In the Healthy Heart book (copyright 1996), he says (p.83) that "... you should limit your beans, peas, and lentils to one cup a day, on the average, to protect yourself from any adverse effects of too much protein and the possible loss of calcium from your bones." By 1999 in the Women's Program book, he says (p. 30) that: "Legumes, such as beans, peas, lentils, and other high protein vegetable foods must be severely limited by people with liver or kidney failure and those with osteoporosis or kidney stones." By his January 2004 newsletter, though, he is clearly drawing a distinction between animal and vegetable protein, the former being higher in sulfur-containing amino acids and thus harder on the body. I've heard that calcium leaching starts around 75 to 90 grams of protein a day (at least with animal protein, which is what predominates in our country). The actual RDA is 45 (women) and 56 (men), which were set above the minimum 15 and 20 grams found by study. (For comparison, the average US consumption is around 110, and high protein diets can get up to 200 or 300.) To get at these higher, dangerous levels (at least for osteoporosis -- I don't know about the other diseases) one would have to eat a heck of a lot of beans! Some studies I found when I was researching this once ... http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd= ShowDetailView & TermToSearch= 8610662 & ordinalp os=1 & itool= E ntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd= ShowDetailView & TermToSearch= 11124760 & ordinalpos= 1 & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus http://www.ajcn. org/cgi/reprint/ 59/6/1356 (notice that the moderate protein diet here is 95 grams, less than the SAD, and shows calcium loss; the "high protein" diet is worse and only has 120 grams, much less that many Atkins adherents have; none of the diets in this study avoided animal protein) All this is my roundabout way of saying I don't see a need to limit vegetable protein unless you have a doctor saying your medical condition requires it. (I do like my legumes LOL) Since my mother has osteoporosis and my sister osteopenia, it is a subject that concerns me. Sorry to go off on this tangent. But once I said something I thought I should clarify the subject. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 Well I assuming that I have to trade nuts for carbs. The fat content in them make me nervous…feel like it is easy to over do it and I already eat about a cup of brown rice. I would rather increase the brown rice/oatmeal than add a few nuts, you know what I mean? They don’t seem to sustain me for as long. Kelli On Behalf Of marcie savastano Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:42 PM Re: Re: athlete but need to lose weight nuts that are not roasted or salted can be soaked for a while (not long enough to be saturated) to make them less hard and dry, and therrefore more bioavailable. nuts can save you when traveling with no hint of a healthy airline snack on the horizon, they are also a given for car trips, kids games, and for energy alone. why buy tamari almonds for example when you can do them at home. or make a mixed bag of walnuts, raisins and carob chips. why can't this be a good snack before a run?? hope this helps! ----- Original Message ---- Kelli <KelliJohnston (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:21:26 PM RE: Re: athlete but need to lose weight This is very helpful information thank you. I have been basically trying to follow Eat to live but finding that it is too limiting with my high mileage (burning upwards of 1000 calories during some runs) but I don’t want to eat the wrong carbs either and end up gaining weight during the training. I think that eliminating all processed foods but not limiting carbs per se (besides too much fruit) would be what I should do…and on occasion adding some flax and avo. I am scared of nuts! I don’t want to end up undereating and I am scared I would do that with a more “eat to live” sort of diet. Kelli [fatfree_ vegan@ s.com] On Behalf Of hathor42 Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:10 AM @ . com Re: athlete but need to lose weight I've had the time to go back and do some research. In Dr. McDougall's Maximum Weight Loss book, he says the following (pp.61-2): " Eat your grains whole. Eliminate breads, bagels, pastas, pretzels, crackers, and corn and wheat tortillas. In general, the less a food is processed, the better for weight loss. Grinding changes two major characteristics of the food: First and most important, grinding a whole grain into flour increases the surface area of the food exposed to the intestinal tract, which increases the amount of nutrition absorbed in the intestines. This also increases the rate at which carbohydrates enter the bloodstream, where they raise insulin and blood sugar. Grinding a whole grain into flour increases absorption of calories and the rise in blood sugar and insulin by three to four times. Second, grinding disrupts the dietary fiber, thereby reducing its ability to slow absorption, lower insulin, regulate blood sugar, satisfy appetitie, and enhance elimination. " For similar reasons, he also recommends regular consumption of raw vegetables and that the two fruits a day allowed be uncooked. (BTW the fruit should not be dried, pureed or in the form of juice.) There is no restriction of legumes in this book (copyright 1994). In the Healthy Heart book (copyright 1996), he says (p.83) that " ... you should limit your beans, peas, and lentils to one cup a day, on the average, to protect yourself from any adverse effects of too much protein and the possible loss of calcium from your bones. " By 1999 in the Women's Program book, he says (p. 30) that: " Legumes, such as beans, peas, lentils, and other high protein vegetable foods must be severely limited by people with liver or kidney failure and those with osteoporosis or kidney stones. " By his January 2004 newsletter, though, he is clearly drawing a distinction between animal and vegetable protein, the former being higher in sulfur-containing amino acids and thus harder on the body. I've heard that calcium leaching starts around 75 to 90 grams of protein a day (at least with animal protein, which is what predominates in our country). The actual RDA is 45 (women) and 56 (men), which were set above the minimum 15 and 20 grams found by study. (For comparison, the average US consumption is around 110, and high protein diets can get up to 200 or 300.) To get at these higher, dangerous levels (at least for osteoporosis -- I don't know about the other diseases) one would have to eat a heck of a lot of beans! Some studies I found when I was researching this once ... http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd= ShowDetailView & TermToSearch= 8610662 & ordinalp os=1 & itool= E ntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd= ShowDetailView & TermToSearch= 11124760 & ordinalpos= 1 & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus http://www.ajcn. org/cgi/reprint/ 59/6/1356 (notice that the moderate protein diet here is 95 grams, less than the SAD, and shows calcium loss; the " high protein " diet is worse and only has 120 grams, much less that many Atkins adherents have; none of the diets in this study avoided animal protein) All this is my roundabout way of saying I don't see a need to limit vegetable protein unless you have a doctor saying your medical condition requires it. (I do like my legumes LOL) Since my mother has osteoporosis and my sister osteopenia, it is a subject that concerns me. Sorry to go off on this tangent. But once I said something I thought I should clarify the subject. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 thanks for the reply. i am not a runner but i have a friend that does the NYC marathons. i'll have to ask her what she does for energy and sustenance. funny thing is i know she eats ice cream which makes no sense to me!Kelli <KelliJohnston Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:05:15 PMRE: Re: athlete but need to lose weight Well I assuming that I have to trade nuts for carbs. The fat content in them make me nervous…feel like it is easy to over do it and I already eat about a cup of brown rice. I would rather increase the brown rice/oatmeal than add a few nuts, you know what I mean? They don’t seem to sustain me for as long. Kelli [fatfree_ vegan@ s.com] On Behalf Of marcie savastano Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:42 PM Re: Re: athlete but need to lose weight nuts that are not roasted or salted can be soaked for a while (not long enough to be saturated) to make them less hard and dry, and therrefore more bioavailable. nuts can save you when traveling with no hint of a healthy airline snack on the horizon, they are also a given for car trips, kids games, and for energy alone. why buy tamari almonds for example when you can do them at home. or make a mixed bag of walnuts, raisins and carob chips. why can't this be a good snack before a run?? hope this helps! ----- Original Message ---- Kelli <KelliJohnston@ hotmail.com> Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:21:26 PM RE: Re: athlete but need to lose weight This is very helpful information thank you. I have been basically trying to follow Eat to live but finding that it is too limiting with my high mileage (burning upwards of 1000 calories during some runs) but I don’t want to eat the wrong carbs either and end up gaining weight during the training. I think that eliminating all processed foods but not limiting carbs per se (besides too much fruit) would be what I should do…and on occasion adding some flax and avo. I am scared of nuts! I don’t want to end up undereating and I am scared I would do that with a more “eat to live” sort of diet. Kelli [fatfree_ vegan@ s.com] On Behalf Of hathor42 Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:10 AM @ . com Re: athlete but need to lose weight I've had the time to go back and do some research. In Dr. McDougall's Maximum Weight Loss book, he says the following (pp.61-2): "Eat your grains whole. Eliminate breads, bagels, pastas, pretzels, crackers, and corn and wheat tortillas. In general, the less a food is processed, the better for weight loss. Grinding changes two major characteristics of the food: First and most important, grinding a whole grain into flour increases the surface area of the food exposed to the intestinal tract, which increases the amount of nutrition absorbed in the intestines. This also increases the rate at which carbohydrates enter the bloodstream, where they raise insulin and blood sugar. Grinding a whole grain into flour increases absorption of calories and the rise in blood sugar and insulin by three to four times. Second, grinding disrupts the dietary fiber, thereby reducing its ability to slow absorption, lower insulin, regulate blood sugar, satisfy appetitie, and enhance elimination. " For similar reasons, he also recommends regular consumption of raw vegetables and that the two fruits a day allowed be uncooked. (BTW the fruit should not be dried, pureed or in the form of juice.) There is no restriction of legumes in this book (copyright 1994). In the Healthy Heart book (copyright 1996), he says (p.83) that "... you should limit your beans, peas, and lentils to one cup a day, on the average, to protect yourself from any adverse effects of too much protein and the possible loss of calcium from your bones." By 1999 in the Women's Program book, he says (p. 30) that: "Legumes, such as beans, peas, lentils, and other high protein vegetable foods must be severely limited by people with liver or kidney failure and those with osteoporosis or kidney stones." By his January 2004 newsletter, though, he is clearly drawing a distinction between animal and vegetable protein, the former being higher in sulfur-containing amino acids and thus harder on the body. I've heard that calcium leaching starts around 75 to 90 grams of protein a day (at least with animal protein, which is what predominates in our country). The actual RDA is 45 (women) and 56 (men), which were set above the minimum 15 and 20 grams found by study. (For comparison, the average US consumption is around 110, and high protein diets can get up to 200 or 300.) To get at these higher, dangerous levels (at least for osteoporosis -- I don't know about the other diseases) one would have to eat a heck of a lot of beans! Some studies I found when I was researching this once ... http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd= ShowDetailView & TermToSearch= 8610662 & ordinalp os=1 & itool= E ntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd= ShowDetailView & TermToSearch= 11124760 & ordinalpos= 1 & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus http://www.ajcn. org/cgi/reprint/ 59/6/1356 (notice that the moderate protein diet here is 95 grams, less than the SAD, and shows calcium loss; the "high protein" diet is worse and only has 120 grams, much less that many Atkins adherents have; none of the diets in this study avoided animal protein) All this is my roundabout way of saying I don't see a need to limit vegetable protein unless you have a doctor saying your medical condition requires it. (I do like my legumes LOL) Since my mother has osteoporosis and my sister osteopenia, it is a subject that concerns me. Sorry to go off on this tangent. But once I said something I thought I should clarify the subject. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 29, 2007 Report Share Posted November 29, 2007 I would also like to chime in for nuts. Especially if you are burning a lot of calories, nuts are great. They have heart-healthy fats (yes, there are good fats and they are in nuts, not oils) and lots of calories. They are an important part of the Eat to live plan. I find that plan is higher calorie than the low-fat vegan plans. Plus, I get heart beat irregularities if I cut out the nuts. Dr. Fuhrman (eat to live) recommended to me sunflower seeds, walnuts, sesame seeds, and brazil nuts (all raw). I also eat cashews. His salad dressings made with nuts are really good and the fat from the nuts makes the nutrients absorb better.If you are in the process of losing weight, then you don't want to consume much fat, but once you lose your body fat, I think it's very beneficial to consume healthy fats from nuts.-barbOn Nov 29, 2007, at 4:42 PM, marcie savastano wrote:nuts that are not roasted or salted can be soaked for a while (not long enough to be saturated) to make them less hard and dry, and therrefore more bioavailable. nuts can save you when traveling with no hint of a healthy airline snack on the horizon, they are also a given for car trips, kids games, and for energy alone. why buy tamari almonds for example when you can do them at home. or make a mixed bag of walnuts, raisins and carob chips. why can't this be a good snack before a run?? hope this helps! Kelli <KelliJohnston (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:21:26 PMRE: Re: athlete but need to lose weightThis is very helpful information thank you. I have been basically trying to follow Eat to live but finding that it is too limiting with my high mileage (burning upwards of 1000 calories during some runs) but I don’t want to eat the wrong carbs either and end up gaining weight during the training. I think that eliminating all processed foods but not limiting carbs per se (besides too much fruit) would be what I should do…and on occasion adding some flax and avo. I am scared of nuts! I don’t want to end up undereating and I am scared I would do that with a more “eat to live” sort of diet. Kelli [fatfree_ vegan ] On Behalf Of hathor42Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:10 AMTo: Subject: Re: athlete but need to lose weight I've had the time to go back and do some research. In Dr. McDougall's Maximum Weight Loss book, he says the following (pp.61-2):"Eat your grains whole. Eliminate breads, bagels, pastas, pretzels, crackers, and corn and wheat tortillas. In general, the less a food is processed, the better for weight loss. Grinding changes two major characteristics of the food: First and most important, grinding a whole grain into flour increases the surface area of the food exposed to the intestinal tract, which increases the amount of nutrition absorbed in the intestines. This also increases the rate at which carbohydrates enter the bloodstream, where they raise insulin and blood sugar. Grinding a whole grain into flour increases absorption of calories and the rise in blood sugar and insulin by three to four times. Second, grinding disrupts the dietary fiber, thereby reducing its ability to slow absorption, lower insulin, regulate blood sugar, satisfy appetitie, and enhance elimination. "For similar reasons, he also recommends regular consumption of raw vegetables and that the two fruits a day allowed be uncooked. (BTW the fruit should not be dried, pureed or in the form of juice.)There is no restriction of legumes in this book (copyright 1994). In the Healthy Heart book (copyright 1996), he says (p.83) that "... you should limit your beans, peas, and lentils to one cup a day, on the average, to protect yourself from any adverse effects of too much protein and the possible loss of calcium from your bones." By 1999 in the Women's Program book, he says (p. 30) that: "Legumes, such as beans, peas, lentils, and other high protein vegetable foods must be severely limited by people with liver or kidney failure and those with osteoporosis or kidney stones."By his January 2004 newsletter, though, he is clearly drawing a distinction between animal and vegetable protein, the former being higher in sulfur-containing amino acids and thus harder on the body.I've heard that calcium leaching starts around 75 to 90 grams of protein a day (at least with animal protein, which is what predominates in our country). The actual RDA is 45 (women) and 56 (men), which were set above the minimum 15 and 20 grams found by study. (For comparison, the average US consumption is around 110, and high protein diets can get up to 200 or 300.) To get at these higher, dangerous levels (at least for osteoporosis -- I don't know about the other diseases) one would have to eat a heck of a lot of beans!Some studies I found when I was researching this once ...http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd= ShowDetailView & TermToSearch= 8610662 & ordinalp os=1 & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez?Db=pubmed & Cmd= ShowDetailView & TermToSearch= 11124760 & ordinalpos= 1 & itool=EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlushttp://www.ajcn. org/cgi/reprint/ 59/6/1356 (notice that the moderate protein diet here is 95 grams, less than the SAD, and shows calcium loss; the "high protein" diet is worse and only has 120 grams, much less that many Atkins adherents have; none of the diets in this study avoided animal protein)All this is my roundabout way of saying I don't see a need to limit vegetable protein unless you have a doctor saying your medical condition requires it. (I do like my legumes LOL) Since my mother has osteoporosis and my sister osteopenia, it is a subject that concerns me.Sorry to go off on this tangent. But once I said something I thought I should clarify the subject.Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 Ice cream! Before I gained those few pounds I would basically eat anything (within vegan limitations) while I was marathon training which is why this whole situation is so frustrating! It wasn’t too long ago even…about 5 months ago. I made myself a brown rice pudding with raisins, apples, and rice milk an hour before running and I ran my best time today! I think reducing carbs is not a good idea for performance for me. Kelli On Behalf Of marcie savastano Thursday, November 29, 2007 3:10 PM Re: Re: athlete but need to lose weight thanks for the reply. i am not a runner but i have a friend that does the NYC marathons. i'll have to ask her what she does for energy and sustenance. funny thing is i know she eats ice cream which makes no sense to me! ----- Original Message ---- Kelli <KelliJohnston (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> Thursday, November 29, 2007 6:05:15 PM RE: Re: athlete but need to lose weight Well I assuming that I have to trade nuts for carbs. The fat content in them make me nervous…feel like it is easy to over do it and I already eat about a cup of brown rice. I would rather increase the brown rice/oatmeal than add a few nuts, you know what I mean? They don’t seem to sustain me for as long. Kelli [fatfree_ vegan@ s.com] On Behalf Of marcie savastano Thursday, November 29, 2007 2:42 PM @ . com Re: Re: athlete but need to lose weight nuts that are not roasted or salted can be soaked for a while (not long enough to be saturated) to make them less hard and dry, and therrefore more bioavailable. nuts can save you when traveling with no hint of a healthy airline snack on the horizon, they are also a given for car trips, kids games, and for energy alone. why buy tamari almonds for example when you can do them at home. or make a mixed bag of walnuts, raisins and carob chips. why can't this be a good snack before a run?? hope this helps! ----- Original Message ---- Kelli <KelliJohnston@ hotmail.com> Thursday, November 29, 2007 1:21:26 PM RE: Re: athlete but need to lose weight This is very helpful information thank you. I have been basically trying to follow Eat to live but finding that it is too limiting with my high mileage (burning upwards of 1000 calories during some runs) but I don’t want to eat the wrong carbs either and end up gaining weight during the training. I think that eliminating all processed foods but not limiting carbs per se (besides too much fruit) would be what I should do…and on occasion adding some flax and avo. I am scared of nuts! I don’t want to end up undereating and I am scared I would do that with a more “eat to live” sort of diet. Kelli [fatfree_ vegan@ s.com] On Behalf Of hathor42 Thursday, November 29, 2007 10:10 AM @ . com Re: athlete but need to lose weight I've had the time to go back and do some research. In Dr. McDougall's Maximum Weight Loss book, he says the following (pp.61-2): " Eat your grains whole. Eliminate breads, bagels, pastas, pretzels, crackers, and corn and wheat tortillas. In general, the less a food is processed, the better for weight loss. Grinding changes two major characteristics of the food: First and most important, grinding a whole grain into flour increases the surface area of the food exposed to the intestinal tract, which increases the amount of nutrition absorbed in the intestines. This also increases the rate at which carbohydrates enter the bloodstream, where they raise insulin and blood sugar. Grinding a whole grain into flour increases absorption of calories and the rise in blood sugar and insulin by three to four times. Second, grinding disrupts the dietary fiber, thereby reducing its ability to slow absorption, lower insulin, regulate blood sugar, satisfy appetitie, and enhance elimination. " For similar reasons, he also recommends regular consumption of raw vegetables and that the two fruits a day allowed be uncooked. (BTW the fruit should not be dried, pureed or in the form of juice.) There is no restriction of legumes in this book (copyright 1994). In the Healthy Heart book (copyright 1996), he says (p.83) that " ... you should limit your beans, peas, and lentils to one cup a day, on the average, to protect yourself from any adverse effects of too much protein and the possible loss of calcium from your bones. " By 1999 in the Women's Program book, he says (p. 30) that: " Legumes, such as beans, peas, lentils, and other high protein vegetable foods must be severely limited by people with liver or kidney failure and those with osteoporosis or kidney stones. " By his January 2004 newsletter, though, he is clearly drawing a distinction between animal and vegetable protein, the former being higher in sulfur-containing amino acids and thus harder on the body. I've heard that calcium leaching starts around 75 to 90 grams of protein a day (at least with animal protein, which is what predominates in our country). The actual RDA is 45 (women) and 56 (men), which were set above the minimum 15 and 20 grams found by study. (For comparison, the average US consumption is around 110, and high protein diets can get up to 200 or 300.) To get at these higher, dangerous levels (at least for osteoporosis -- I don't know about the other diseases) one would have to eat a heck of a lot of beans! Some studies I found when I was researching this once ... http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd= ShowDetailView & TermToSearch= 8610662 & ordinalp os=1 & itool= E ntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus http://www.ncbi. nlm.nih.gov/ sites/entrez? Db=pubmed & Cmd= ShowDetailView & TermToSearch= 11124760 & ordinalpos= 1 & itool= EntrezSystem2. PEntrez.Pubmed. Pubmed_ResultsPa nel.Pubmed_ RVAbstractPlus http://www.ajcn. org/cgi/reprint/ 59/6/1356 (notice that the moderate protein diet here is 95 grams, less than the SAD, and shows calcium loss; the " high protein " diet is worse and only has 120 grams, much less that many Atkins adherents have; none of the diets in this study avoided animal protein) All this is my roundabout way of saying I don't see a need to limit vegetable protein unless you have a doctor saying your medical condition requires it. (I do like my legumes LOL) Since my mother has osteoporosis and my sister osteopenia, it is a subject that concerns me. Sorry to go off on this tangent. But once I said something I thought I should clarify the subject. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Never miss a thing. Make your homepage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2007 Report Share Posted November 30, 2007 >I've had the time to go back and do some research. . .. . That was MOST welcome to me - who am neither an athlete nor any longer wanting or needing to lose weight. I am here for the health benefits now (although originally for weight loss). Very useful post - thank you! Best love, River ______________________________\ ____ Never miss a thing. Make your home page. http://www./r/hs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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