Vitamin B12

[Guest guest]

southladogs wrote:

>

> There is often concern by those who consume no animal products as to

> whether they are getting sufficient vitamin 12

 

Here's another interesting solution, LOL

 

<<There is one exception to this lack of vegetarian B-12 active food,

which is that we do produce B-12 from bacteria in our large intestine,

but since this B-12 is produced in the area below where B- 12 is

reabsorbed, it is really not available for absorption. Some people have

argued that a lot of species of lower mammals do not need B-12. The

reason why this is true is that a lot of species that are primarily

vegetarian animals eat their feces. Human research also has shown if you

eat your feces, you will get enough B- 12. Dr. Herbert sponsored

research in England where vegan volunteers with a documented B-12

deficiency were fed B-12 extractions made from their own feces. It cured

their B-12 deficiency. So, there is a natural vegan way to do it. It may

not be the most tasteful way, however. >>

 

http://www.living-foods.com/articles/b12article.html

[Guest guest]

HI Gina: Thank you for setting this B12 issue on the right track.

As I now understand it, there are 2 sources for B12. That that we injest

containing the B12 produced by bacteria outside the body and the B12

produced inside the body by bacteria.

With the digestible b12 I assume one would need proper stomach acids or a

little bit of apple cider vinegar first to properly absorb the B12. But,

with many references to B12 being produced in the git by a bacterium,

nowhere in this long article did it say WHICH bacterium.

I was under the impression that it was bifidus, but if it is low down in the

git as was suggested it might be bifidum or other that dwells in the colon.

I though bifidus lives in the small intestine. But if one were to

innocculate with a colony or give it a kick start after anti biotics it

would be helpful to know which bacteria to colonise and/or injest.. All I

know is that it's not acidophilus, the most common pro biotic. Can you

please give me the name of the bacteria that produces the B12 in the git.

rusty

-

" southladogs " <southladogs

<rawfood >

Sunday, April 11, 2004 12:11 AM

[Raw Food] Vitamin B12

 

 

There is often concern by those who consume no animal products as to

whether they are getting sufficient vitamin 12, because there is a

belief that vitamin B12 comes from consuming animal products.

However, the only source of any vitamin B12 in the animals that

people consume, is the same source from which we get it: Vitamin B12

is made by bacteria, that is the only known source of this vitamin.

 

There is no B12 to be gained from eating animal products. B12 is

only made by bacteria, which are in the soil, and in our intestines.

Consequently, it is generally the consumers of animal products who

have actual B12 deficiencies. And it is consuming animal products

which leads to any possible deficiencies, because animal products

are poison in the human body, and harm the body, so that the body

cannot function properly, to process and absorb the B12 that are

made by bacteria in our intestines, as well as the B12 made by

bacteria that we ingest from soil remains on our produce.

 

As Dr. Michael Klaper says:

 

" Vitamin B-12 is an essential nutrient that you need for healthy

blood and healthy nerves. There is a prevailing feeling that only

animal products contain vitamin B-12, as if cows make it. Let me be

very clear about this, cows do not make vitamin B-12. They never

have, they never will. Pigs don't make vitamin B-12, chickens don't

make vitamin B-12, no animal makes vitamin B-12. They never have,

they never will. Vitamin B-12 is made by little microscopic plant

cells called soil bacteria that live in the earth. "

 

What we call vitamin B12, or cobalamin, is produced by bacteria,

which live throughout our bodies, and especially in our colons, and

also live in soil, eating waste material, and excreting various

substances, including vitamin and vitamin K. The bacteria produce

more than ample quantities of these vitamins, and perhaps other

unknown nutrients, for our bodies' needs.

 

Sources such as pills of ferment known as vitamin B12 pills, or

injections of it in the form of vitamin B12 shots, or eating

fermented food such as vinegar or sauerkraut or lactobacillus etc.,

may give us more bacteria, but then of course they are also

toxifying our bodies with the ferment, which substances are toxic in

the body. Ingesting soil is probably not a problem, even though soil

itself is inorganic--in Nature we would ingest a bit of soil anyway

when eating, so it's probably just fine for setting people's minds

at ease about B12.

 

Some foods are claimed to be sources of B12. But what is considered

to be B12 turns out to be B12 analogues instead, and are reputed to

actually hamper the absorption by the body of true B12. There may be

B12 ON foods, from the soil, or being produced by the bacteria on

the food, but the general consensus is that there is no B12 actually

IN foods themselves.

 

In addition, if we've ever had human breast milk, we've gotten a

dose of all the bacteria we need. Bacteria live in our colons and

produce B12. They naturally proliferate. They can be decimated by

antibiotics, but according to Ronald Cridland, M.D., they are never

completely wiped out, some remain, and re-establish their

populations. I think if one was never breast fed, it might be a good

idea to get a dose of human breast milk at one point in a person's

life, since we don't even know what we're not getting by never

having been breast fed. In Nature there is no such thing as a non-

breast fed baby, and until recent times even all humans were breast

fed, if not by their natural mothers, then by another lactating

woman (wet nurse).

 

When we already have a colony of bacteria in our bodies, we are

already producing B12, plenty of it, it is not an issue. It is NOT

that we do not have enough B12 in our bodies!

 

The problem is that people are not absorbing it! There are factors

involved in B12 absorption by the body. The most prominent factor

involved in B12 absorption or uptake by the body, is IF--

the " intrinsic factor " . IF is produced by gastric parietal mucous

membranes-the stomach lining. The IF, and the B12 produced in our

bodies by the bacteria, MUST meet and join, in order for the B12 to

be absorbed by the body! It makes no difference how much B12 we have

in our bodies. If the body is not producing IF, we cannot absorb the

B12!

 

There are other factors in B12 absorption, such as the presence of

cobalt in the body--B12 is called " cobalamin " , from the

word " cobalt " , so cobalt is necessary for the successful production

by the bacteria of B12. Folic acid may also need to be present. But

of course, these are just some of the nutrients necessary for B12

production and absorption. If we are eating a diet of our natural

foods of nothing but fresh raw fruits, veggies, nuts, and edible

seeds, then we are getting all we need of minerals and nutrients.

 

" Megaloblastic (pernicious) anemia is a rare disorder in which the

body does not absorb enough vitamin B12 from the digestive tract,

resulting in an inadequate amount of red blood cells (RBCs)

produced. Megaloblastic (pernicious) anemia is more common in

individuals of northern European descent. Megaloblastic (pernicious)

anemia results from a lack of intrinsic factor in gastric secretions

(a substance needed to absorb vitamin B12 from the gastrointestinal

tract). Vitamin B12 deficiency results.

 

The Schilling test is performed to detect vitamin B12 absorption. In

the Schilling test, vitamin B12 levels are measured in the urine

after the ingestion of radioactive vitamin B12. With normal

absorption, the ileum (portion of the small intestine) absorbs more

vitamin B12 than the body needs and excretes the excess into the

urine. With impaired absorption, however, little or no vitamin B12

is excreted into the urine. " The MMA test is a urine test, which one

can purchase on-line, if one is concerned about their B12 level. A

urine test for B12 levels is reputed to be more reliable than a

blood test.

 

So, as we can see, what is important with regard to B12 is the

ABSORPTION of it by the body, in addition to its production by the

bacteria in the intestine. Absorption is impaired in a weak, toxic

body. Our bodies need to clean out, and heal, and repair themselves,

in order for optimal functioning to be restored. That is what

happens when we fast, properly. The body can only do the necessary

very profound cleansing, healing, and repair, when it is given the

circumstances to do so. And that means giving it TOTAL REST. Of

course the body is inwardly not resting, it is working very hard.

But with a true fast, water only, laying down with eyes closed and

no activity, total rest, we are giving the body the circumstances to

be able to accomplish its work of repairing our absorption, as well

as countless other functions. We are getting out of the way, we stop

imposing activity upon the body, when the body tells us by symptoms,

and by a lack of real hunger, that it needs a total rest to be able

to cleanse, heal, repair.

 

The body during a long fast repairs the absorption of nutrients--

each cell has a chance to cleanse and repair, so B12 absorption is

corrected by the body. Our bodies know how to restore optimal

function to themselves. No substance, no matter how highly touted,

no matter how natural, nothing can heal the body. Only the body can

heal itself. The body alone can heal and repair its functions, and

all it asks of us is to get out of the way, and let it do its work.

But we should not impose a fast on the body--the body will let us

know, by symptoms, and a lack of hunger, when it wants to fast, and

that is when a fast is beneficial to the body.

 

Please only do a fast under the supervision of a competent fasting

professional. If one chooses to fast on their own, then they need to

be fully informed about fasting, and one must be prepared to take

full responsibility for one's own health. Before undertaking a fast,

please read about fasting, in the books by Herbert Shelton, please

get yourself fully informed. Some books on fasting, by Dr. Herbert

Shelton: " Fasting Can Save Your Life " ,

" The Science and Fine Art of Fasting "

 

Some quotes about B12 from " Conscious Eating " by Gabriel Cousens (I

am aware that Cousens has made more recent statements, and reversed

his position; however, I believe he was correct initially):

 

" The often heard health question raised by nonvegetarians and

vegetarians alike is whether vegeterians get enough B12. The answer

is an important one because B12 deficiency can cause nerve

denegeration and even death. "

 

" The B12 question is not one that can be answered merely by a simple

recounting of the results of one or two laboratory studies or

theoretical discussions. In order to answer this question to my own

satisfaction I had to look at my clinical experience and review a

lot of the clinical studies on lactovegetarians and vegans. "

 

" Of those studies suggesting an apparent B12 deficiencies in vegans,

none fulfilled the full scientific criteria for a legitimate B12

deficiency diagnosis. " " ...All of the scientifically complete

studies on vegans showed no evidence of B12 deficiency. "

 

" ....the serum B12 levels in vegetarians and in vegans in particular

is lower than that of people of a flesh centered diet. Instead of

thinking of these levels as inadequate, it seems more accurate to

broaden the range of acceptable normals based primarily on serum

levels of nonvegetarians to include averages for vegetarians, which

do run lower. " " In general, I have begun to find that the

physiological profiles for vegetarians, and particularly vegans, are

different than those of nonvegetarians. For example, vegans will

have lower cholesterols and triglycerides than flesh-eaters. If we

used vegan physiology as the standard, more flesh-eaters would be

considered to have high cholesterols rather than just high normal

cholesterols. Broadening the range of normals for B12 levels to

include healthy vegans gives us a much clearer framework from which

to assess health. It also forces us to look at cultural biases. "

 

" Live food vegetarians exhibit different baseline normals of

nutrient levels compared with other dietary sub-groups, including

cooked food vegetarians. "

 

" The question that needs to be asked is: 'Why do healthy vegans

routinely not suffer from B12 deficiency, despite fears,

mythologies, and some 'scientific' prognostications to the

contrary?' "

 

" Vegetarians have been shown to have better absorption rates (of

B12) than meat-eaters. Meat-eaters, who might ingest 10 micrograms

of B12 per day, are estimated to absorb 16%, while vegans, who may

be ingesting 1 microgram per day from their food, are estimated to

absord up to 70%. " This is another example of how the adaptive

physiology of the human organism changes as a function of the

quality of the diet. "

 

" ....research has found that there is actually more B12 produced by

the bacteria in the small intestine of a vegetarian than in that of

a meat-eater. "

 

" The bacteria growing in water and found on vegetables that we eat

are another way vegetarians get B12. One unusual study focuses on a

vegetarian community that grew their own food with fertilizing

methods used in the Orient for thousands of years, namely, using

fertilizer that has composted human feces mixed in. It was found

that the foods had an ample quantity of B12 because of this. This

point is that the B12 is not in the food, but on the food. It is

produced by local bacteria, and those bacteria are commonly abundant

in our environment and on our food. B12 intake can come from

multiple sources. "

 

" B12 is found more often in root vegetables because of their contact

with the soil bacteria. This means that if we are too scrupulous in

washing off out food we may actually by washing away part of our B12

intake. "

 

" Research in the late '80s financed by the Maine Coast Sea

Vegetables company at my suggestion has found that kelp, alaria

(like wakame), dulse and laver (like nori) all have high amounts of

human-utilizable B12. Their sea vegetables were sent to an

independent lab that tests for human-active B12. Alaria had 15.4

micrograms of B12 per 100 grams. Laver had 5.3 micrograms of B12 per

100 grams. Kelp had 3.4 micrograms of B12 per 100 grams. Dulse had

2.05 micrograms per 100 grams. What this means is that one-half

ounce of alaria, which is a large single portion, will supply ten

times the daily amount needed. One-half ounce of dulse, which has

the lowest amount of human-active B12 of the sea vegetables, will

also meet daily requirements. "

 

" There is some speculation that after 20 years on a vegan diet one

might run into B12 deficiencies because of a very slow and gradual

B12 depletion. Unfortunately, almost no research is available on

vegans of more than 20 years who have never taken any B12 tablets or

food supplements containing B12. "

 

" It is only theoretical speculation as to whether they might, in

fact, be B12 deficient. "

 

" The healthiest and best prevention for vegans against B12

deficiency is to honor Mother Nature and our bodies with optimal

health habits and a live-food diet in which no B-12 is destroyed by

cooking. I was not able to find any studies of B12 levels in live-

food vegans, but my observation of the few raw-food vegans who have

been on such a diet for more than 20 years without any

supplementation of B12 is that they are the healthiest group of

people I have ever seen in our Western culture. "

 

 

Here is a great article on B12:

 

THE VITAMIN B12 ISSUE

 

by Dr Gina Shaw, D.S., M.A., AIYS (Dip. Irid.)

 

The subject of Vitamin B12 is not new to most vegans, vegetarians or

raw fooders. The supplement companies have many people running to

their local health (drug) stores in an effort to make themselves

deficiency-free, but is this a good idea? A number of issues will

be raised in this article and I will attempt to piece together some

information from many different and reliable (non-financially-

oriented) sources.

 

A vitamin B12 deficiency is a serious disorder, but it is never just

a B12 deficiency because vitamin and mineral deficiencies never

happen in isolation. Indications of a deficiency of vitamin B12,

when they do reach a stage where they have shown up, can be quite

severe. Fatigue, paleness, anorexia, mental confusion, delusions,

paranoia, weight loss, etc. are just some indications that a person

may have a B12-deficiency. In my opinion, ME is a B12-deficiency

disorder. If you do think you may have a B12-deficiency, it would

be wise for you to seek the advice of a health practitioner (such as

myself) who is knowledgeable about B12-deficiencies, for immediate

advice. This disorder can eventually lead to death if left

unchecked.

 

UK official recommendations have decreased in recent years, the

body's needs having been previously over-estimated. Indeed, the

Department of Health recognises that some people have lower than

average requirements of B12. A whole lifetime's requirement of B12

add up to a 40 milligram speck of red crystals, about one-seventh

the size of an average tablet of aspirin! Taking large doses of the

vitamin by mouth is pointless because 3ug is the most that can be

absorbed at any one time.

 

Vitamin B12 is excreted in the bile and is effectively reabsorbed.

This is known as enterohepatic circulation. The amount of B12

excreted in the bile can vary from 1 to 10ug (micrograms) a day.

People on diets low in B12, including vegans and some vegetarians,

may be obtaining more B12 from reabsorption than from dietary

sources. Reabsorption is the reason it can take over 20 years for a

deficiency disease to develop. In comparison, if B12 deficiency is

due to a failure in absorption, it can take only three years for a

deficiency disease to occur. Since vitamin B12 is recycled in a

healthy body, in principle, internal B12 synthesis could fulfil our

needs without any B12 provided in the diet, but if cobalt in our

diet is lacking, the problem is not so much a lack of B12

synthesising intestinal flora, as a lack of cobalt (which again will

need other factors for efficient absorption).

 

Among the many controversies surrounding vitamin B12, there is the

argument that, although intrinsic factor is produced in our stomachs

and that our intestines are known to produce vitamin B12, the

bacteria is produced too low down in the intestines and cannot be

absorbed by our bodies. This argument is sadly still hanging around,

however, according to Dr Vetrano, it was disproved by research over

20 years ago and is nothing more than an obsolete scientific

theory. Indeed, in a 1999 version of `Human Anatomy and Physiology'

by Marieb, it states quite clearly that we do indeed absorb vitamin

B12 through our intestines.

 

Many people say that the only foods which contain vitamin B12 are

animal-derived foods. This also is untrue. No foods naturally

contain vitamin B12 - neither animal or plant foods. Vitamin B12 is

a microbe - a bacteria - it is produced by microorganisms. Vitamin

B12 is the only vitamin that contains a trace element - cobalt -

which gives this vitamin its chemical name - cobalamin - which is at

the centre of its molecular structure. Humans and all vertebrates

require cobalt, although it is assimilated only in the form of

vitamin B12.

 

B12 synthesis is known to occur naturally in the human small

intestine (in the ileum), which is the primary site of B12

absorption. As long as gut bacteria have cobalt and certain other

nutrients, they produce vitamin B12. According to Dr Michael

Klaper, vitamin B12 is present in the mouth and intestines. B12

must be combined with a mucoprotein enzyme named Intrinsic Factor,

which is normally present in gastric secretions, to be properly

assimilated. If the intrinsic factor is impaired or absent, B12

synthesis will not take place, no matter how much is present in the

diet. B12 deficiency may be brought upon by antibiotics (also

contained in milk), alcohol, smoking and stress (alcohol damages the

liver, so drinkers need more B12, smoking (and all high temp cooked

food is smoky) also raises B12 needs).

 

Many nutritional analyses of foodstuffs were carried out such a long

time ago, and, as such, have not taken account of more up-to-date

technology in scientific procedures. For instance, Tesco's

raspberries now state quite clearly that 100g of raspberries contain

30% of the recommended daily allowance of vitamin B12. This cannot

be an isolated example of a plant food which contains B12! More

likely, it is just one plant food of many which contain this

vitamin. Indeed, according to Dr Vetrano, current books on nutrition

in the U.S. have now stated that there is B12 in any food that

contains quantities of the B vitamin complex, but previously they

were just not able to assay the amounts. Nowadays, more modern

technology has allowed them to discover that there is B12 in those

foods rich in the B complex.

 

The author does not believe that a vitamin B12 deficiency is more

widespread in vegans or vegetarians - this is probably just another

marketing lie! In fact, many so-called studies `showing vegans

deficient' have to be carefully studies themselves - many of them do

not prove vegans to be deficient at all! In fact, contrary to meat

and dairy industry propaganda, meat-eaters are known to be more

likely to have a vitamin B12 deficiency - this has been known since

1959!!(1)

 

Having said this, we must bear in mind that many vegetarians and

vegans still take antibiotics or consume antibiotic-containing foods

such as onions, garlic, strong radishes and other foods rich in

mustard oil, which are lethal to intestinal flora. The trouble is

that once we have damaged our intestinal flora, it is difficult to

correct without proper and knowledgeable healthcare and dietary

advice. It is of far greater importance to correct intestinal

flora problems than to rely on so-called supplements. People who

have a physical problem because they think they are not getting

enough vitamin B12, are in fact often not assimilating their foods

properly because of poor digestion. When digestion is straightened

out, B12 can be utilized and produced once again

 

According to Marieb's `Human Anatomy and Physiology', vitamin B12

can be destroyed by highly alkaline and highly acid conditions.

This assumes that the B12 in meat would be easily destroyed because

the hydrochloric acid in our stomaches during the digestion of meat

is highly acidic. This may explain why meat-eaters are just as

likely to have a B12 deficiency as vegans - even though their diet

contains vitamin B12. Also, for meat-eaters, there is antiobiotics

contained in meat! Of course, many meat-eaters destroy their

friendly bacteria in their intestines by constant putrefaction and

the putrefactive bacteria naturally present in meat will give the

body a hard time.

 

Another side to the equation is that low serum B12 levels do not

equate to a B12 deficiency necessarily. Just because there is a low

level of B12 in the bloodstream, this does not mean that there is a

deficiency in the body as a whole, it may well be being utilised by

the living cells (such as the central nervous system). In any case,

a person who takes supplements may well have `vitamin B12' floating

in their bloodstream, but this does not mean it is usable to the

human body as synthetic, inorganic vitamins are not.

 

The illusionary benefits of supplement-taking result in the person's

increased metabolism in order to expel these harmful substances as

quickly as possible. This results in a stimulation of the body and

the illusion of an improvement in health. The truth is that there

is a very delicate balance among hormone secretions, vitamins,

enzymes, minerals, etc. This is something that scientists know

very little about. These substances do not work alone, but in fact

require other factors for them to be effective, like fats, etc. We

know very little about life within a cell. The use of supplements

can disturb this delicate balance and diminish the efficiency of

body functions. Health is reduced commensurate to the imbalance

that occurs.

 

Commercially, vitamin B12 tablets are made from bacteria and the

bacteria is deeply fermented. A healthy body will usually expel

fermented substances. The main problem with pill supplements is

that they: 1) Do not contain the hundreds of other nutrients we may

need to be healthy that raw foods provide, and 2) they contain

artificial substances/contaminants that are detrimental to health.

 

Synthetic vitamins and minerals are inorganic and are therefore

unusable by the human body. In the manufacture of `food

supplements', chemically pure substances must be used for the most

part. If the scientists used naturally derived nutrients, their

pills would be too large for us to swallow. Additionally, a

chemical `carrier' is added to make the products acceptable to the

palate of the consumer and to bring their product up to an

acceptable standard. These chemical carriers, as with all

chemicals, are toxic to the human organism. They result in

stimulation of the body and an illusionary cure.

 

According to Dr. John Potter PhD, of Fred Hutchinson Cancer Center,

Seattle, " Food's magic is based on thousands of complex interactions

of dozens of different phytochemicals which are difficult to

recreate in pills. While 190 solid studies prove that fruit and

vegetables benefit, supplements have only a smattering of

evidence " . Vitamins, minerals, hormones, etc. do not work in

isolation, they work symbiotically. They work with other nutrients

in order for their work to be carried out. When these highly

complex substances are disturbed, their overall effectiveness can be

reduced. However, too much of a nutrient is draining on our vital

energy as the human (or non-human) organism may have to expel a

nutrient overload. Also, it is doubtful whether, even if you do

have a B12 deficiency, you have only a B12 deficiency. A healthier

diet and living conditions, as well as a fast may be in order.

 

According to Dr Douglas Graham, in his book `Nutrition and Athletic

Performance', supplementation has proven to be an inadequate and

incomplete method of supplying nutrients as scientists cannot match

nature's refined balances. He says that since an estimated ninety

per cent of all nutrients are as yet undiscovered, why would we want

to start adding nutrients into our diet one at a time rather than

eating whole foods? Most nutrients are known to interact

symbiotically with at least eight other nutrients and considering

this, the odds of healthfully supplying any nutrients in its

necessary component package becomes `infinitesimally minute'. More

to the point he adds, `there has never been a successful attempt to

keep an animal or human healthy, or even alive, on a diet composed

strictly of nutritional supplements'.

 

Dan Reeter, at Bio-Systems Laboratories in Colorado is creating one

of the world's most comprehensive computer facilities for soil

biology testing. He says that, from his extensive tests, plants

grown in organically-managed soil make significantly higher levels

of usable vitamin B12. It has also been reported that vitamin B12

is present in wild fruits and wild and home-grown plant foods.

 

The author contends that animal and dairy produce is a poor source

of Vitamin B12 since the vitamin is contained in nutrient-deranged

foodstuffs which will inevitably destroy the usability of the

vitamin. Studies show that those following a typical animal-based

diet require more vitamin B12 than those who do not. This is

because the typical diet leads to digestive atrophy. Because B12 is

peptide-bound in animal products and must be enzymatically cleaved

from the peptide bonds to be absorbed, a weakened gastric acid and

gastric enzyme secretions (due to a cooked food diet) causes an

inability to efficiently extract vitamin B12 from external food.

Nevertheless, raw food vegans who have a more powerful digestion

actually get more B12 by reabsorption from the bile than they do

from external food. Wolfe argues that the natural soil microbes and

bacteria found on wild plant foods and unwashed garden plants are

typically adequate to supply our B12 requirements. The natural

microbes in the soil need to be duplicated and to colonise in our

digestive tract, without fermentation or putrefaction.

 

Another point worth considering is that vitamin B12 Recommended

Daily Allowances (RDA's) are based upon the average cooked food

(meat and two veg), smoking, drinking person. Commercial interests

have indeed grossly exaggerated our needs for many nutrients. These

studies tell us nothing of the requirements for a healthy

vegetarian. It is very difficult to determine precise individual

needs of any vitamin or nutrient, and an overload of any vitamin or

other nutrient creates an unnecessary burden on our vital domain.

Factors such as rate of metabolism, stress, etc. can determine our

differing and often changing needs. Dr Victor Herbert reported in

the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition (1998, Volume 48) that

only 0.00000035 ounces (1 microgram) of vitamin B12 is required per

day. These minimum vitamin requirements may be inadequate to

explain the needs of a healthy raw food vegan, for example, who may

require less B12 due to an improved gastric ability and a high

ability to recycle vitamin B12. (Cooking destroys microbes and a

highly sterilised, cooked vegan diet may not provide the intestines

with enough good quality flora). Absorption rates of B12 are higher

in healthy individuals than in unhealthy individuals. Studies,

based on healthy Indian vegetarian villagers, showed that none of

them exhibited symptoms of B12 deficiency, despite levels of .3-.5

micrograms of B12.

 

Dr Gabriel Cousens argues that vitamin B12 deficiency is typically

caused by lack of absorption in the intestinal tract rather than a

lack of this vitamin in the diet. Annie and Dr David Jubb argue

that people have lived in such a sterile, antiseptic environment for

so long that these necessary symbiotic organisms have been less than

present in our diet. They argue that by ingesting soil-born

organisms you can maintain an enormous reservoir of uncoded

antibodies ready to transform specific pathogens, the way nature

intended - by eating a little dirt!

 

If a person is healthy and on a healthy vegan, high-percentage raw

food diet and does not habitually over-eat, wrongly combine their

foods and abuse their bodies generally, and utilises fasting on

occasion, it is unlikely that they will develop B12 deficiency

symptoms providing their intestinal flora was not previously

deranged. Vitamin B12 deficiency is usually symptomatic of a larger

problem i.e. poor intestinal flora, poor absorption and also lack of

sunlight.

 

Harvey Diamond argues that the entire nutrient issue has been made

so confusing with contradictory information that it is no wonder

that people are bewildered about where to obtain sufficient

nutrients. Unfortunately, some people have been so totally

misguided and scared that no amount of common-sense reasoning of

even factual data can rescue them from the meat, dairy and

petrochemical (synthetic food `supplement' suppliers) multi-million

pound industries. The truth is that whatever nutrients the body

needs will be contained in its natural foods (for human beings, raw

plant foods). Mother Nature knows how to provide for her own. Why

would it be that we are created in such a way as to make us a

natural plant-eater and hey presto, there is no vitamin B12 provided

for us by plants? If you can't get it from raw fruits, vegetables,

nuts, seeds or sprouts then WE DON'T NEED IT! Just because a wild

fruit or organic foodstuff contains only a small amount, this does

not mean it is deficient. It means that we only need a small

amount!

 

The pill pushers are quick to say that our soil is deficient, but

according to Diamond and others, if a seed does not receive the

elements it needs IT WILL NOT GROW (OR WILL GROW POORLY - author).

Also, plants obtain nutrients from other sources in greater amounts:

the sun, water and the air. Plants actually obtain only about 1% of

nutrients from the soil.

 

If you do develop a B12 deficiency, certain urgent dietary

adjustments may need to be made, and there is a possibility that

fasting is in order. In any case, on switching to a healthier diet,

be it vegetarian, vegan or raw food (for optimum health), we should

go back to nature as much as possible and pay little attention to

germ phobics who advise us to scrub our vegetables and fruits. Buy

organic and eat home-grown or wild foods and do not clean them too

scrupulously! Just as nature intended!.

 

Please note that it is not recommended for anyone to go on a fast of

longer duration than 1½ days wihtout competent supervision, as

prolonged fasts must be monitored by a qualified fasting supervisor.

 

Dr Shaw is available for health and nutritional consultations,

fasting supervision, courses in natural health, emotional healing

and iris analysis (iridology). Her address is: True Health, c/o 8

Marston Rd, Clayhall, Essex IG5 OLZ, telephone 020 8351 0086/8550

0374. Email GinaShw Visit her web site at

http://vibrancy.homestead.com/pageone.html

 

1. `Fit for Life', Diamond, H. and M., 1987

 

2. `The Life Science Institute Course in Natural Health' - 1986

 

3. `Nutrition and Athletic Performance', Dr D. Graham, 1999

 

4. `Female Balance' article 2001 -K Perrero www.living-foods.com

 

5. Human Anatomy and Phyisology - Marieb - 1999

 

6. Correspondence with Dr Vetrano and family 2001

 

7. `The Sunfood Diet Success Story' by David Wolfe

 

8. B12 article by the Vegan Society

 

9 . B12 article by the Vegetarian Society

 

10. 1990 `Solstice Magazine' article

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

rawfood , " L.Win " <rustym@p...> wrote:

> HI Gina: Thank you for setting this B12 issue on the right track.

 

Hi Rusty,

 

I'm Zsuzsa, I just posted the article by Dr. Gina Shaw. Thank you

for reading it, and for your kind words.

 

> As I now understand it, there are 2 sources for B12. That that we

injest

> containing the B12 produced by bacteria outside the body and the

B12

> produced inside the body by bacteria.

> With the digestible b12 I assume one would need proper stomach

acids or a

> little bit of apple cider vinegar first to properly absorb the

B12.

 

We need to be able to produce IF, intrinsic factor, which are made

by cells in the abdominal wall. I would not consume vinegar, I don't

think it would help anyway.

 

> But,

> with many references to B12 being produced in the git by a

bacterium,

> nowhere in this long article did it say WHICH bacterium.

> I was under the impression that it was bifidus, but if it is low

down in the

> git as was suggested it might be bifidum or other that dwells in

the colon.

> I though bifidus lives in the small intestine.

 

The only info I've been able to find about which bacteria produce

B12 refers to the ones which make the commercially sold B12. Are

these the same ones which enter our bodies and produce it? I don't

know. Here's the info:

 

http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/vegansources

 

Streptomyces griseus, a bacterium once thought to be a yeast, was

the commercial source of vitamin B12 for many years. The bacteria

Propionibacterium shermanii and Pseudomonas denitrificans have now

replaced S. griseus. At least one company, Rhone Poulenc Biochimie

of France, is using a genetically engineered microorganism to

produce B12.

 

> But if one were to

> innocculate with a colony or give it a kick start after anti

biotics it

> would be helpful to know which bacteria to colonise and/or

injest.. All I

> know is that it's not acidophilus, the most common pro biotic.

 

There are so many types of bacteria which live in our bodies, so

tinkering with one or two like acidophilus or bifidus, might result

in an imbalance. Of course, we get an imbalance when we take

antibiotics, since some are sturdier, like e-coli. But probably we

don't help much by taking in just one type of the weaker ones, but

that's just my opinion. My view is to just not worry about it, just

continue to eat raw vegan foods, don't be too fastidious about

washing off the soil from organic produce. Another good way to make

sure we have plenty of bacteria, I find, is to just go out into

Nature, and find some tasty flowers or leaves or fruit to munch on

that have not been commercially tampered with, and just munch on a

bit of those--they will probably have some nice bacteria on them.

 

Here's a bit of info that I just found that I would like to share:

 

http://www.pamrotella.com/health/b12.html

 

B12 is called cobalamin due to its central cobalt atom, and is a

water-soluble vitamin with a very low recommended daily intake

requirement, about 2-3 micrograms per day. Vitamin B12 is stored in

the liver, kidneys, and muscle tissue, and most B12 (65-75%) is

reabsorbed by the body instead of excreted.

 

Bacteria are the B12 producers on which both plants and animals

rely. And in humans, that bacteria doesn't necessarily come from

plants -- the mouth, upper intestine, and lower intestine all

contain bacteria that produce B12. However, it's unknown if enough

B12 to meet the daily requirement comes from internal sources of

B12. More likely, they produce some, and the rest comes in with

food and water consumed.

 

All of the Vitamin B12 in the world ultimately comes from bacteria.

Neither plants nor animals can synthesize it. But plants can be

contaminated with B12 when they come in contact with soil bacteria

that produce it. Animal foods are rich in B12 only because animals

eat foods that are contaminated with it or because bacteria living

in an animal's intestines make it.

-- From The Vegetarian Way: Total Health for You and Your Family

(1996), Virginia Messina, MPH, RD, & Mark Messina, PhD p. 102

 

Info on the chemistry of vitamin B12 can be found at:

http://www.tlchm.bris.ac.uk/motm/vitb12/b12.htm

 

Zsuzsa

[Guest guest]

oh no..

*runs screaming...*

 

 

>pixel_a_ted <pixel_a_ted

>Mar 4, 2007 5:35 PM

>

> Vitamin B12

>

>I understand that a vegan diet is deficient in Vitamin B12. I was wondering

what people do

>about this. I don't like taking vitamins but might consider it if there were

something simple

>that provides about 100% of the daily recommended amount. From what I've seen

they

>provide several 1000%. Also I read somewhere that you shouldn't take just one

vitamin B, but

>a complex. All very confusing.

>

>Any input would be welcome.

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

ok...first question

where do you live?

 

 

 

>pixel_a_ted <pixel_a_ted

>Mar 4, 2007 5:35 PM

>

> Vitamin B12

>

>I understand that a vegan diet is deficient in Vitamin B12. I was wondering

what people do

>about this. I don't like taking vitamins but might consider it if there were

something simple

>that provides about 100% of the daily recommended amount. From what I've seen

they

>provide several 1000%. Also I read somewhere that you shouldn't take just one

vitamin B, but

>a complex. All very confusing.

>

>Any input would be welcome.

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Come back here immediately Fraggle (hand on hip and tapping toe).

 

I've done one post on this - that's it :-)

 

Jo

 

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

>

> oh no..

> *runs screaming...*

>

>

> >pixel_a_ted <pixel_a_ted

> >Mar 4, 2007 5:35 PM

> >

> > Vitamin B12

> >

> >I understand that a vegan diet is deficient in Vitamin B12. I was

wondering what people do

> >about this. I don't like taking vitamins but might consider it if

there were something simple

> >that provides about 100% of the daily recommended amount. From

what I've seen they

> >provide several 1000%. Also I read somewhere that you shouldn't

take just one vitamin B, but

> >a complex. All very confusing.

> >

> >Any input would be welcome.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >To send an email to -

 

> >

[Guest guest]

I take a vegan multi-vitamin in the morning and a vegan b-12 in the eveningSharonOn Mar 4, 2007, at 8:35 PM, pixel_a_ted wrote:I understand that a vegan diet is deficient in Vitamin B12. I was wondering what people do about this. I don't like taking vitamins but might consider it if there were something simple that provides about 100% of the daily recommended amount. From what I've seen theyprovide several 1000%. Also I read somewhere that you shouldn't take just one vitamin B, but a complex. All very confusing.Any input would be welcome.

[Guest guest]

oh dear, here we go again............ The Valley Vegan.............heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote: You can take a Vitamin B supplement in isolation. Some of the other vitamins B should be taken in a complex. The reason some Vitamin B12 supplements are 1000times the rda is that they need only be taken once a week - hence the large dose.We have had discussions on here previously, but my opinion, based on extensive reading of health experts, both vegan and

non-vegan, is that everybody should take a B12 supplement. Vegans do not need to take the folic acid supplement that is also recommended as their diet usually provides ample folic acid. Vitamin B12, folic acid and Vitamin B6 keep down levels of homocysteine, an excess of which causes heart trouble. Vegans live a few years longer than meat-eaters, and vegetarians live about five years longer than vegans. It is hoped that if vegans supplement with B12 they will live even longer than vegetarians.Jo , "pixel_a_ted" <pixel_a_ted wrote:>> I understand that a vegan diet is deficient in Vitamin B12. I was wondering what people do > about this. I don't like taking vitamins but might consider it if there were something simple > that provides about 100% of the daily recommended amount. From

what I've seen they > provide several 1000%. Also I read somewhere that you shouldn't take just one vitamin B, but > a complex. All very confusing.> > Any input would be welcome.>Peter H

 

Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Mail.

[Guest guest]

but its so much more fun to run away screaming..........

keeps the lungs healthy

 

 

>heartwerk <jo.heartwork

>Mar 5, 2007 2:47 AM

>

> Re: Vitamin B12

>

>Come back here immediately Fraggle (hand on hip and tapping toe).

>

>I've done one post on this - that's it :-)

>

>Jo

>

> , fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

>>

>> oh no..

>> *runs screaming...*

>>

>>

>> >pixel_a_ted <pixel_a_ted

>> >Mar 4, 2007 5:35 PM

>> >

>> > Vitamin B12

>> >

>> >I understand that a vegan diet is deficient in Vitamin B12. I was

>wondering what people do

>> >about this. I don't like taking vitamins but might consider it if

>there were something simple

>> >that provides about 100% of the daily recommended amount. From

>what I've seen they

>> >provide several 1000%. Also I read somewhere that you shouldn't

>take just one vitamin B, but

>> >a complex. All very confusing.

>> >

>> >Any input would be welcome.

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >

>> >To send an email to -

>

>> >

[Guest guest]

> Vegans live a few years longer than meat-eaters, and vegetarians live about

five

> years longer than vegans.

 

Is this a " well known fact " ? Any source/reference for these statistics?

 

Thanks.

[Guest guest]

Do you say that because you disagree with me? New people on the group don't know that we have discussed it before, and it doesn't hurt to be helpful.

 

Jo

 

-

peter VV

Monday, March 05, 2007 7:22 PM

Re: Re: Vitamin B12

 

oh dear, here we go again............

 

The Valley Vegan.............heartwerk <jo.heartwork wrote:

 

 

You can take a Vitamin B supplement in isolation. Some of the other vitamins B should be taken in a complex. The reason some Vitamin B12 supplements are 1000times the rda is that they need only be taken once a week - hence the large dose.We have had discussions on here previously, but my opinion, based on extensive reading of health experts, both vegan and non-vegan, is that everybody should take a B12 supplement. Vegans do not need to take the folic acid supplement that is also recommended as their diet usually provides ample folic acid. Vitamin B12, folic acid and Vitamin B6 keep down levels of homocysteine, an excess of which causes heart trouble. Vegans live a few years longer than meat-eaters, and vegetarians live about five years longer than vegans. It is hoped that if vegans supplement with B12 they will live even longer than vegetarians.Jo , "pixel_a_ted" <pixel_a_ted wrote:>> I understand that a vegan diet is deficient in Vitamin B12. I was wondering what people do > about this. I don't like taking vitamins but might consider it if there were something simple > that provides about 100% of the daily recommended amount. From what I've seen they > provide several 1000%. Also I read somewhere that you shouldn't take just one vitamin B, but > a complex. All very confusing.> > Any input would be welcome.>

Peter H

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

LOL - okay then, as long as I don't have to give chase ....

 

Jo

 

-

" fraggle " <EBbrewpunx

 

Monday, March 05, 2007 9:49 PM

Re: Re: Vitamin B12

 

 

> but its so much more fun to run away screaming..........

> keeps the lungs healthy

>

>

> >heartwerk <jo.heartwork

> >Mar 5, 2007 2:47 AM

> >

> > Re: Vitamin B12

> >

> >Come back here immediately Fraggle (hand on hip and tapping toe).

> >

> >I've done one post on this - that's it :-)

> >

> >Jo

> >

> > , fraggle <EBbrewpunx wrote:

> >>

> >> oh no..

> >> *runs screaming...*

> >>

> >>

> >> >pixel_a_ted <pixel_a_ted

> >> >Mar 4, 2007 5:35 PM

> >> >

> >> > Vitamin B12

> >> >

> >> >I understand that a vegan diet is deficient in Vitamin B12. I was

> >wondering what people do

> >> >about this. I don't like taking vitamins but might consider it if

> >there were something simple

> >> >that provides about 100% of the daily recommended amount. From

> >what I've seen they

> >> >provide several 1000%. Also I read somewhere that you shouldn't

> >take just one vitamin B, but

> >> >a complex. All very confusing.

> >> >

> >> >Any input would be welcome.

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >

> >> >To send an email to -

> >

> >> >

[Guest guest]

Not off hand. I have so many books on nutrition and health, and read so

many articles on the internet that I really don't have the inclination to go

through them. I 'think' it was either the Vegan Society or Stephen Walsh,

but I'm not sure. Anyway, advice given -ignore if you like.

 

Jo

 

-

" pixel_a_ted " <pixel_a_ted

 

Monday, March 05, 2007 10:21 PM

Re: Vitamin B12

 

 

> > Vegans live a few years longer than meat-eaters, and vegetarians live

about five

> > years longer than vegans.

>

> Is this a " well known fact " ? Any source/reference for these statistics?

>

> Thanks.

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

but could equally be Patrick Holford.

 

Jo

 

, " jo " <jo.heartwork wrote:

>

> Not off hand. I have so many books on nutrition and health, and

read so

> many articles on the internet that I really don't have the

inclination to go

> through them. I 'think' it was either the Vegan Society or Stephen

Walsh,

> but I'm not sure. Anyway, advice given -ignore if you like.

>

> Jo

>

> -

> " pixel_a_ted " <pixel_a_ted

>

> Monday, March 05, 2007 10:21 PM

> Re: Vitamin B12

>

>

> > > Vegans live a few years longer than meat-eaters, and

vegetarians live

> about five

> > > years longer than vegans.

> >

> > Is this a " well known fact " ? Any source/reference for these

statistics?

> >

> > Thanks.

> >

> >

> >

> > To send an email to -

 

> >

[Guest guest]

Nope, just saying nowt, and hiding under this rock until it goes away......... The Valley Vegan............jo <jo.heartwork wrote: Do you say that because you disagree with me? New people on the group don't know that we have discussed it before, and it doesn't hurt to be helpful. Jo - peter VV Monday, March 05, 2007 7:22 PM Re: Re: Vitamin B12 oh dear, here we go again............ The Valley Vegan.............heartwerk <jo.heartwork > wrote: You can take a Vitamin B supplement in isolation. Some of the

other vitamins B should be taken in a complex. The reason some Vitamin B12 supplements are 1000times the rda is that they need only be taken once a week - hence the large dose.We have had discussions on here previously, but my opinion, based on extensive reading of health experts, both vegan and non-vegan, is that everybody should take a B12 supplement. Vegans do not need to take the folic acid supplement that is also recommended as their diet usually provides ample folic acid. Vitamin B12, folic acid and Vitamin B6 keep down levels of homocysteine, an excess of which causes heart trouble. Vegans live a few years longer than meat-eaters, and vegetarians live about five years longer than vegans. It is hoped that if vegans supplement with B12 they will live even longer than vegetarians.Jo , "pixel_a_ted"

<pixel_a_ted wrote:>> I understand that a vegan diet is deficient in Vitamin B12. I was wondering what people do > about this. I don't like taking vitamins but might consider it if there were something simple > that provides about 100% of the daily recommended amount. From what I've seen they > provide several 1000%. Also I read somewhere that you shouldn't take just one vitamin B, but > a complex. All very confusing.> > Any input would be welcome.> Peter H Inbox full of unwanted email? Get leading protection and 1GB storage with All New Mail. Peter H

 

New Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

[Guest guest]

rawfood , " Ari " <raw_vegan_33 wrote:

>

> What you think about that? I read the book " Ann Wigmore - Be Your Own

> Doctor " and this book said that seed of sunflower including vitamin

> B12 0,4 mcg/gm.

 

I think that everybody should supplement B12. This has been the

verdict after countless studies. It's just not something you want to

mess with. Brian Clements (Hippocrates Health Center) has done

extensive studying - 65% of the population are deficient in it to some

degree...and that is SAD dieters too. The goal is health, not to live

in the jungle again. Everyone should just take a sublingual here and

there, honestly. Erica

[Guest guest]

 

Erica <schoolofrawk

rawfood

Tuesday, October 9, 2007 6:33:38 PM

[Raw Food] Re: Vitamin B12

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rawfood@ .com, " Ari " <raw_vegan_33@ ....> wrote:

 

>

 

> What you think about that? I read the book " Ann Wigmore - Be Your Own

 

> Doctor " and this book said that seed of sunflower including vitamin

 

> B12 0,4 mcg/gm.

 

 

 

I think that everybody should supplement B12. This has been the

 

verdict after countless studies. It's just not something you want to

 

mess with. Brian Clements (Hippocrates Health Center) has done

 

extensive studying - 65% of the population are deficient in it to some

 

degree...and that is SAD dieters too. The goal is health, not to live

 

in the jungle again. Everyone should just take a sublingual here and

 

there, honestly. Erica

 

 

I think, that everybody gets vitamin B12 some soil bacteria

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

>

> Good lord, Erica, what then separates you from allopathic

medicine? They

> administer drugs prophylactically; so do you.

>

> No one should ever need to supplement if their diet is really

working right.

> B12 is one of the rare exceptions of which I am aware. And that

should be

> taken ONLY when there is a problem. This business of imagining

one's way

> into problems is really, well, misguided, to say the least.

>

> Best,

> Elchanan

 

Elchanan, it is outrageous to compare a simple B12 supplementation

to allopathic medicine. The outcome of study after study indicates

it is a wise thing to do, especially raw vegans. Many organic

farmers will indicate we cannot get everything from soil, so in my

educated opinion, it is wise for all to supplement with green

superfoods and the like. That is why most raw-foodists do so. It is

also why B12 deficiency and other deficiencies are more common with

pure Natural Hygienists.

[Guest guest]

rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

>

> Good lord, Erica, what then separates you from allopathic medicine?

They

> administer drugs prophylactically; so do you.

 

 

Perfect vignette: A girl in our town was a DEVOUT Natural Hygienist.

She did everything by the book, working diligently on her health.

Nobody could tell her a thing, nobody could bring anything poorly

combined or dehydrated to her raw potlucks, etc. Which is cool, of

course. Except that eventually she grew so B12-deficient that she was

undergoing extensive shots and other adjustments to her diet. I

believe she of course resumed eating meat, which is what a lot of

deficient hygienists usually resort to, and understandably so. When

the pendulum is sooo far in one direction, we intuitively seek out

the opposite extreme to introduce balance. Makes perfect sense. Had

she just supplemented B12 here and there, which is a preventative and

far from an allopathic measure (and not unlike how eating healthy is

preventative measure for cancer, but certainly a far cry from

allopathic treatment), she could probably still be happily on her

healing journey, eating raw vegan and attaining health. She clearly

got sidetracked because her chosen narrow health philosophy and

belief system undermined her actual journey to health, and caused her

to not listen to her body for fear of breaking some " rule " . Now she

is jaded and eating animals. " Great! " Is this true of every

hygienist? No. Is this true of enough hygienists that it is

noteworthy to mention? Absolutely. That's all I'm saying. Peace, Erica

[Guest guest]

And if you really understand the process of

> B12 assimilation, then you realize that B12 " deficiencies " arise

from poor

> absorption in the gut, not from a dietary deficiency.

 

Sure. But the topic was B12 deficiency, not whether it steps from our

malabsorption or from the diet. I never said the diet was deficient.

I simply stated that B12 deficiency, no matter what the reason,

exists.

 

> When people begin eating and living more healthfully, so-called " B12

> deficiency " problems, if there ever were any, tend to vanish.

 

This is absolutely not true. While SAD dieters can run into this too,

it is more prevalent amongst vegan diets (not because the diet is

necessarily " unhealthier " ). I know of several raw vegans who, since

eating healthier, developed B12 deficiencies. And these are people

who have had health problems, who had full testing done prior to

going raw or vegan. Their B12 was fine.

>

> In addition, B12 " deficiencies " tend to display symptoms very

slowly, over

> years. Symptoms accrue for years before there is even the

slightest risk of

> serious problems or irreversible damage.

Actually, I know of some people who it happened to in a couple of

quick years.

..

>

> To sell supplements to people without having a clue ... not a single

> indication ... that a problem exists, and frankly knowing that a

problem

> likely does NOT exist (from those studies you love), is downright

> irresponsible and destructive, in my opinion.

Absolutely not true. And studies actually come quite handy. Elchanan,

it's very interesting that experience and reality and yes, studies,

contradict your statements time and time again, but you still stick

to your personal theories.

 

>

> Erica, this has nothing to do with natural hygiene or with any

particular

> school of thought.

Instead this has to do with basic clear thinking and

> human decency. To shovel unneeded and toxic substances into people

without a

> clear and PRESENT reason to do so is exactly what the allopaths do.

From

> where I sit, there is indeed no difference.

 

I'm sorry that you feel that way, but how on earth is B12 " toxic " ?

That is completely Natural Hygiene, which this has a lot to do with.

Erica

[Guest guest]

On Thursday 11 October 2007, Erica wrote:

> > When people begin eating and living more healthfully,

> > so-called " B12 deficiency " problems, if there ever were

> > any, tend to vanish.

>

> This is absolutely not true.

 

I have to agree with you Erica,

 

in a report I have just read " High Dose vitamin B12 in the

treatment of Dementia " , it states " In a recent study from

India, published in Neurology India, most of the B12

deficient people studied were 'vegatarian'.

 

And amongst the most common causes of B12 deficiency are SAD

diet, microwave ovens, antacids and antibiotics and Vegan

diets.

 

Listed amongst the observable effects of deficiency of B12

are depression, paranoid psychosis, Bipolar disorder,

chronic fatigue syndrome, asthma, disrupted sleep,

environmental illness, low stress-tolerance....

 

Paranoid Psychosis is described " characterised by

over-suspiciousness and delusions of grandeur or

persecution " .

 

If this is correct, then intransigence over 'a perfect diet'

is not surprising.

 

--

the kneeling fool

[Guest guest]

>

> I have to agree with you Erica,

>

 

> If this is correct, then intransigence over 'a perfect diet'

> is not surprising.

 

Hey Neal,

Exactly. Except that B12 deficiency doesn't necessarily have a ton to

do with diet. SAD eaters still get it, but less, and only by

accident/default, not because their diet is healthy in the least. Way

smarter to supplement and be high raw and vegan than it is to eat SAD

just to decrease your risks of deficiency. :-) Thanks for posting.

>

[Guest guest]

http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/id/1287

 

Many folks starting in their 40's start having malabsorption problems absorbing

vit b12 from their diet and need an injection. Blood tests results aren't a

reliable indication of when it is truely low. My doctor says she always

suggests Vit. B 12 shots to folks that are in the low normal range. Energy,

stamina, focus and mood improvements are good benefits of these injections.

Judy

-

pdenchfield

Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:12 AM

vitamin B12

 

 

I recently read that the only vitamin lacking in a vegetarian diet is

B12. How do you incorporate this vitamin in your diet? Through

supplements? I have been addicted to ZipFizz, a powder you can add to

water for a low-calorie, sugar-free energy drink. I was pleased to

find that it has an abundance of B12.

 

Also, are there additional vitamin shortages when you take out the dairy?

 

Thanks!

Pamela

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Here are vegetarian sources of Vit B 12

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

-

pdenchfield

Thursday, June 12, 2008 11:12 AM

vitamin B12

 

 

I recently read that the only vitamin lacking in a vegetarian diet is

B12. How do you incorporate this vitamin in your diet? Through

supplements? I have been addicted to ZipFizz, a powder you can add to

water for a low-calorie, sugar-free energy drink. I was pleased to

find that it has an abundance of B12.

 

Also, are there additional vitamin shortages when you take out the dairy?

 

Thanks!

Pamela

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi,

 

I am a new vegetarian (2 weeks), but in my research, I read that you

can get vitamin B12 from nutritional yeast. I found it at Whole Foods

with the bulk foods. So far I have tried it on popcorn. I like it;

it has a kind of cheesy taste to it.

 

Mary

 

 

, " pdenchfield "

<pdenchfield wrote:

>

> I recently read that the only vitamin lacking in a vegetarian diet is

> B12. How do you incorporate this vitamin in your diet? Through

> supplements? I have been addicted to ZipFizz, a powder you can add to

> water for a low-calorie, sugar-free energy drink. I was pleased to

> find that it has an abundance of B12.

>

> Also, are there additional vitamin shortages when you take out the

dairy?

>

> Thanks!

> Pamela

>