Guest guest Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 This is off topic, but relates to the " is mold vegan? " question. I've been making kefir (it is not made with milk). Kefir is fermented with some combination of bacteria and yeasts (I'm new to this process and still learning) and, like most " real " fermented foods it is probiotic (good for gut bacteria). I'm bringing some over to a potluck next week -- and one of the people is vegan. I'm pretty sure that probiotic bacteria would be considered vegan but I've really never thought about it before. Writing this, I'm realizing that I brought homemade (probiotic) sauerkraut to a potluck LAST week and labelled it as " vegan " . I hope that wasn't wrong! I suppose this gets to the question of " what is an animal? " Apparently honey bees count as animals (since honey is CLEARLY not vegan) -- so, um, bees are an insect. I have not heard of any vegan issues about fermentation or probiotics, so I think it MUST be okay...... it's just I've not thought about it before. Anyone have opinions or official edicts on this? Moria At 10:20 AM 5/2/2009, you wrote: >Re: OT: Beano > Posted by: " Jenn " batmanusdmychina batmanusdmychina > Fri May 1, 2009 5:42 pm ((PDT)) > >Mold is neither plant or animal - it is a fungus, just as mushrooms >are , so if you consider mushrooms to be vegan, you will have to >also consider the mold to be vegan as well. Aspergilus niger is also >often found in yogurt, both soy and dairy versions. > >--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Martha <mnatural22 wrote: > >Martha <mnatural22 > >The label of both Beano and Bean-Zyme (a product costing half that >of Beano) tablets list alpha-galactosidase enzyme (from Aspergilus >niger, food grade mold) as the only ingredient. So I guess it all >depends whether one considers mold to be vegan or not. One thing I >think we can all agree on is that it's not animal. > >Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 Moria, What is in your own heart about it? Or put another way, are you trying to align yourself with a very specific set of rules established by others or to come to an understanding of what you feel is the right way for you to live? I personally live by what seems reasonable to me; I don't expect an equal understanding of "reasonable" from any one else and certainly don't live by a specific set of rules that others label and define as "vegan" or "vegetarian" or "omnivore" or "carnivore", etc. Sure, it makes easier to label people as one or the other, but each of us is an individual. Our entire system is a complex of various tiny critters; it is a natural set of interacting symbiotic relationships that allow one to gain the energy from a variety of foods. Adding a probiotic seems "reasonable" to me. Sure, you may be consuming some living entity. Some of them are consuming parts of you and what you eat. Is your concern, here, in buying foods that fit within a particular standard to make your purchases more easy (similar to being easy to just buy things labeled "Kosher"), to fit into a group called "vegan", or do you have other motives? Lets take a different approach to the question. What if half the people responding said it definitely was NOT vegan and half said well of course it is, each side giving their arguments. Does it really matter what any of the other folks think? What is it you think? To me, that's the important question. In going back over your note, I note that you were concerned about taking a dish to a potluck and wanted to label your dish accurately, which I applaud. As a suggestion rather than label it "vegan" just provide a list of ingredients and let each person make their own choice. There are many more personal considerations than just whether one is a vegan or not; someone might have "issues" (wink wink nod nod) with sauerkraut, for example. Someone else might be allergic to tomatoes. + John This is off topic, but relates to the "is mold vegan?" question.I've been making kefir (it is not made with milk). Kefir is fermented with some combination of bacteria and yeasts (I'm new to this process and still learning) and, like most "real" fermented foods it is probiotic (good for gut bacteria). I'm bringing some over to a potluck next week -- and one of the people is vegan. I'm pretty sure that probiotic bacteria would be considered vegan but I've really never thought about it before.Writing this, I'm realizing that I brought homemade (probiotic) sauerkraut to a potluck LAST week and labelled it as "vegan". I hope that wasn't wrong!I suppose this gets to the question of "what is an animal?" Apparently honey bees count as animals (since honey is CLEARLY not vegan) -- so, um, bees are an insect.I have not heard of any vegan issues about fermentation or probiotics, so I think it MUST be okay...... it's just I've not thought about it before.Anyone have opinions or official edicts on this?MoriaAt 10:20 AM 5/2/2009, you wrote:>Re: OT: Beano> Posted by: "Jenn" batmanusdmychina batmanusdmychina> Fri May 1, 2009 5:42 pm ((PDT))>>Mold is neither plant or animal - it is a fungus, just as mushrooms >are , so if you consider mushrooms to be vegan, you will have to >also consider the mold to be vegan as well. Aspergilus niger is also >often found in yogurt, both soy and dairy versions.>>--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Martha <mnatural22 > wrote:>>Martha <mnatural22 >>>The label of both Beano and Bean-Zyme (a product costing half that >of Beano) tablets list alpha-galactosidase enzyme (from Aspergilus >niger, food grade mold) as the only ingredient. So I guess it all >depends whether one considers mold to be vegan or not. One thing I >think we can all agree on is that it's not animal.>>Martha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 You know, this brings up a ridiculously ironic argument that I have with myself all the time. Because I LOVE plants, and have read so many books on how they are psychic and can show on an E-Meter a definite spike if you think about chopping them down, well that is not my desire. I desire to not harm anything. Harm nothing. This, I fear, is impossible. There is no way I can live without plants OR meat, and there is no way I can let the tall grass weeds in my yard live. I have to kill them! So for ME, just me, this is a legitimate dilemma - at least with plants I can't hear them. But if I hook up a monitor, and now that I know this is true, I'm still doing a killing when I eat whatever has been harvested. So, maybe if I grew my own livestock, and felt the need for protein, I might do what I do with my plants - thank them, ask their forgiveness, bless them and tell them I know that their spirit will live on in energy like everything will. Energy does not dissipate - it just changes form. JTOn May 2, 2009, at 11:31 AM, John Daleske wrote:Moria,What is in your own heart about it? Or put another way, are you trying to align yourself with a very specific set of rules established by others or to come to an understanding of what you feel is the right way for you to live? I personally live by what seems reasonable to me; I don't expect an equal understanding of "reasonable" from any one else and certainly don't live by a specific set of rules that others label and define as "vegan" or "vegetarian" or "omnivore" or "carnivore", etc. Sure, it makes easier to label people as one or the other, but each of us is an individual. Our entire system is a complex of various tiny critters; it is a natural set of interacting symbiotic relationships that allow one to gain the energy from a variety of foods. Adding a probiotic seems "reasonable" to me. Sure, you may be consuming some living entity. Some of them are consuming parts of you and what you eat. Is your concern, here, in buying foods that fit within a particular standard to make your purchases more easy (similar to being easy to just buy things labeled "Kosher"), to fit into a group called "vegan", or do you have other motives? Lets take a different approach to the question. What if half the people responding said it definitely was NOT vegan and half said well of course it is, each side giving their arguments. Does it really matter what any of the other folks think? What is it you think? To me, that's the important question. In going back over your note, I note that you were concerned about taking a dish to a potluck and wanted to label your dish accurately, which I applaud. As a suggestion rather than label it "vegan" just provide a list of ingredients and let each person make their own choice. There are many more personal considerations than just whether one is a vegan or not; someone might have "issues" (wink wink nod nod) with sauerkraut, for example. Someone else might be allergic to tomatoes. + John This is off topic, but relates to the "is mold vegan?" question.I've been making kefir (it is not made with milk). Kefir is fermented with some combination of bacteria and yeasts (I'm new to this process and still learning) and, like most "real" fermented foods it is probiotic (good for gut bacteria). I'm bringing some over to a potluck next week -- and one of the people is vegan. I'm pretty sure that probiotic bacteria would be considered vegan but I've really never thought about it before.Writing this, I'm realizing that I brought homemade (probiotic) sauerkraut to a potluck LAST week and labelled it as "vegan". I hope that wasn't wrong!I suppose this gets to the question of "what is an animal?" Apparently honey bees count as animals (since honey is CLEARLY not vegan) -- so, um, bees are an insect.I have not heard of any vegan issues about fermentation or probiotics, so I think it MUST be okay...... it's just I've not thought about it before.Anyone have opinions or official edicts on this?MoriaAt 10:20 AM 5/2/2009, you wrote:>Re: OT: Beano> Posted by: "Jenn" batmanusdmychina batmanusdmychina> Fri May 1, 2009 5:42 pm ((PDT))>>Mold is neither plant or animal - it is a fungus, just as mushrooms >are , so if you consider mushrooms to be vegan, you will have to >also consider the mold to be vegan as well. Aspergilus niger is also >often found in yogurt, both soy and dairy versions.>>--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Martha <mnatural22 > wrote:>>Martha <mnatural22 >>>The label of both Beano and Bean-Zyme (a product costing half that >of Beano) tablets list alpha-galactosidase enzyme (from Aspergilus >niger, food grade mold) as the only ingredient. So I guess it all >depends whether one considers mold to be vegan or not. One thing I >think we can all agree on is that it's not animal.>>Martha jennifer trumpjennifur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 2, 2009 Report Share Posted May 2, 2009 BUT to add to my other post - I would never kill an animal. Not in this lifetime. Not on purpose. But I will kill plants.JTOn May 2, 2009, at 11:31 AM, John Daleske wrote:Moria,What is in your own heart about it? Or put another way, are you trying to align yourself with a very specific set of rules established by others or to come to an understanding of what you feel is the right way for you to live? I personally live by what seems reasonable to me; I don't expect an equal understanding of "reasonable" from any one else and certainly don't live by a specific set of rules that others label and define as "vegan" or "vegetarian" or "omnivore" or "carnivore", etc. Sure, it makes easier to label people as one or the other, but each of us is an individual. Our entire system is a complex of various tiny critters; it is a natural set of interacting symbiotic relationships that allow one to gain the energy from a variety of foods. Adding a probiotic seems "reasonable" to me. Sure, you may be consuming some living entity. Some of them are consuming parts of you and what you eat. Is your concern, here, in buying foods that fit within a particular standard to make your purchases more easy (similar to being easy to just buy things labeled "Kosher"), to fit into a group called "vegan", or do you have other motives? Lets take a different approach to the question. What if half the people responding said it definitely was NOT vegan and half said well of course it is, each side giving their arguments. Does it really matter what any of the other folks think? What is it you think? To me, that's the important question. In going back over your note, I note that you were concerned about taking a dish to a potluck and wanted to label your dish accurately, which I applaud. As a suggestion rather than label it "vegan" just provide a list of ingredients and let each person make their own choice. There are many more personal considerations than just whether one is a vegan or not; someone might have "issues" (wink wink nod nod) with sauerkraut, for example. Someone else might be allergic to tomatoes. + John This is off topic, but relates to the "is mold vegan?" question.I've been making kefir (it is not made with milk). Kefir is fermented with some combination of bacteria and yeasts (I'm new to this process and still learning) and, like most "real" fermented foods it is probiotic (good for gut bacteria). I'm bringing some over to a potluck next week -- and one of the people is vegan. I'm pretty sure that probiotic bacteria would be considered vegan but I've really never thought about it before.Writing this, I'm realizing that I brought homemade (probiotic) sauerkraut to a potluck LAST week and labelled it as "vegan". I hope that wasn't wrong!I suppose this gets to the question of "what is an animal?" Apparently honey bees count as animals (since honey is CLEARLY not vegan) -- so, um, bees are an insect.I have not heard of any vegan issues about fermentation or probiotics, so I think it MUST be okay...... it's just I've not thought about it before.Anyone have opinions or official edicts on this?MoriaAt 10:20 AM 5/2/2009, you wrote:>Re: OT: Beano> Posted by: "Jenn" batmanusdmychina batmanusdmychina> Fri May 1, 2009 5:42 pm ((PDT))>>Mold is neither plant or animal - it is a fungus, just as mushrooms >are , so if you consider mushrooms to be vegan, you will have to >also consider the mold to be vegan as well. Aspergilus niger is also >often found in yogurt, both soy and dairy versions.>>--- On Fri, 5/1/09, Martha <mnatural22 > wrote:>>Martha <mnatural22 >>>The label of both Beano and Bean-Zyme (a product costing half that >of Beano) tablets list alpha-galactosidase enzyme (from Aspergilus >niger, food grade mold) as the only ingredient. So I guess it all >depends whether one considers mold to be vegan or not. One thing I >think we can all agree on is that it's not animal.>>Martha jennifer trumpjennifur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 3, 2009 Report Share Posted May 3, 2009 Hi John, My question was not about the issues you raised. Just as you seem to be suggesting, I would not answer such questions based on the definition of " vegan " . >I personally live by what seems reasonable to me; I don't expect an >equal understanding of " reasonable " from any one else and certainly >don't live by a specific set of rules that others label and define >as " vegan " or " vegetarian " or " omnivore " or " carnivore " , etc. Sure, >it makes easier to label people as one or the other, but each of us >is an individual. I was not asking about labelling people, I was asking about labelling food. >In going back over your note, I note that you were concerned about >taking a dish to a potluck and wanted to label your dish accurately, >which I applaud. As a suggestion rather than label it " vegan " just >provide a list of ingredients and let each person make their own choice. Actually, I would suggest to you that you do both, which is what I did in this instance and have done in many other instances. By " both " I mean I included BOTH the term " vegan " and the ingredients. FWIW, I have attended a lot of potlucks, and I have lots of food " issues " , so I often label food even when NOT asked to. Moria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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