Guest guest Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 >It's done all the time, not just on the Internet but newspapers and >magazine, even on TV. As long as the author of the recipe is credited I >see nothing wrong with it. Having spoken with many authors, that kind of attitude really irritates me. With all due respect, what you think doesn't matter. The law (and the author's) opinion does. Working on a cookbook, having helped edit one, and having interacted with some well-known vegan authors doing same, it's hard ass work. Like it or not, it IS a copyright infringement to post full recipes. Some authors don't mind the occasional recipe post, some get livid. Where to draw the line? Case in point: for just one recipe I've invested some, literally, over 40 hours of work/testing over this past year, not counting the cost of off-season food needed to test it. You think I want that sent around? Don't I deserve recompense for my time? Cookbook authors make their living developing and writing their books. Excessive copying and distribution of that work affects their income. If they want to go " open source " or " commons " they have that option, but the attitude that, " It's done all the time " so it's okay is, imho, morally bankrupt. MOST of the time in newspapers and magazines the authors are asked for permission, btw. I don't want to get into an OT thread/discussion about this, and don't intend to. But, having some experience in the matter, I thought I'd provide a perspective from someone involved in the matter up front. Sure, some posting of recipes can stimulate sales, but I've seen, over time, some people on other lists post practically the whole book of any said cookbook author. So, yeah, once in awhile it's probably okay (especially simple basic recipes), but don't kid yourself. It is illegal and of that there is no doubt. Should the author want to pursue legal action, he/she would be on firm ground. Ingredients and amounts are not copyrighted, but the text describing the process is. There's ample information on the web validating this as a legal issue and it isn't a debate. Posting the ingredient and descriptive text of a copyrighted recipe violates copyright, and it isn't a " fair use " issue. What matters is the author's opinion (or awareness) and some measure of restraint from the copyright violator. Linking to a recipe on an author's website is probably a better idea, anyway. Some things to consider. FYI, Mark (and I will not read or respond to any posts about this post on the List, off list, maybe) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 7, 2009 Report Share Posted September 7, 2009 Hi Mark, Just my practical non-legal two cents. As a professional musician I welcome downloads of my songs (within reason), because I know that if I can get people to listen to my music they will buy it and/or come and see me play. As an author of fiction, I routinely post chapters of my book online to generate buzz, and/or sales. Any buzz or publicity is good publicity. I spent three years writing my last book, so I am aware of the blood, sweat, and and tears that goes into it. It's a labor of love. With that being said, I would venture to guess that very few people on this list have read your book, let alone heard of it. If I'm wrong, I apologize profusely. I am far more likely to seek it out after seeing a recipe on this or any other site. I rarely ever buy a new author sight unseen (unless they win a Booker or an Edgar). I might check it out of the library. I'll routinely check out several books from the same section and browse through them at random. As a cookbook goes, I probably wouldn't read it unless the book falls open on the right page and captivates me. While not strictly legal, I don't think that posting a recipe from a book on a site like this is a bad thing (with proper salutation). It is a chance for 2470 people to read it, try it, and if they like it, buy your book. Sorry if I offend. That is not my intention. terry , Mark Sutton <msutton wrote: > > > >It's done all the time, not just on the Internet but newspapers and > >magazine, even on TV. As long as the author of the recipe is credited I > >see nothing wrong with it. > > > Having spoken with many authors, that kind of attitude really irritates me. With all due respect, what you think doesn't matter. The law (and the author's) opinion does. > > Working on a cookbook, having helped edit one, and having interacted with some well-known vegan authors doing same, it's hard ass work. > > Like it or not, it IS a copyright infringement to post full recipes. Some authors don't mind the occasional recipe post, some get livid. > > Where to draw the line? > > Case in point: for just one recipe I've invested some, literally, over 40 hours of work/testing over this past year, not counting the cost of off-season food needed to test it. > > You think I want that sent around? Don't I deserve recompense for my time? > > Cookbook authors make their living developing and writing their books. Excessive copying and distribution of that work affects their income. If they want to go " open source " or " commons " they have that option, but the attitude that, " It's done all the time " so it's okay is, imho, morally bankrupt. > > MOST of the time in newspapers and magazines the authors are asked for permission, btw. > > I don't want to get into an OT thread/discussion about this, and don't intend to. > > But, having some experience in the matter, I thought I'd provide a perspective from someone involved in the matter up front. > > Sure, some posting of recipes can stimulate sales, but I've seen, over time, some people on other lists post practically the whole book of any said cookbook author. > > So, yeah, once in awhile it's probably okay (especially simple basic recipes), but don't kid yourself. It is illegal and of that there is no doubt. Should the author want to pursue legal action, he/she would be on firm ground. > > Ingredients and amounts are not copyrighted, but the text describing the process is. There's ample information on the web validating this as a legal issue and it isn't a debate. > > Posting the ingredient and descriptive text of a copyrighted recipe violates copyright, and it isn't a " fair use " issue. What matters is the author's opinion (or awareness) and some measure of restraint from the copyright violator. Linking to a recipe on an author's website is probably a better idea, anyway. > > Some things to consider. > > FYI, Mark (and I will not read or respond to any posts about this post on the List, off list, maybe) > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 <<Mark (and I will not read or respond to any posts about this post on the List, off list, maybe)>> So basically, Mark, you want to be able to sound off in 13 paragraphs, or however long it was, but you don't want to have to respond to anyone else. The word "coward" comes to mind. - DJ-----------------------Always remember: Today's mighty oak is simplyyesterday's nut that held its ground... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 <<Mark (and I will not read or respond to any posts about this post on the List, off list, maybe)>> On Mon, 7 Sep 2009, Dena Jo wrote: > So basically, Mark, you want to be able to sound off in 13 paragraphs, or however long it > was, but you don't want to have to respond to anyone else. The word " coward " comes to > mind. Hmmmm.......I had a different interpretation. I do not know Mark, but thought he was simply saying that he did not want to continue this (OT) discussion on the list, but might be willing to do so off-list..... -MEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Hmmmm.......I had a different interpretation. I do not know Mark, but thought he was simply saying that he did not want to continue this (OT) discussion on the list, but might be willing to do so off-list..... -MEC That's the opinion I got too. These OT discussions on mailing lists can have a tendency to get out of hand really quickly. I think Susan's newly posted guidelines pretty much settles it. Happy holiday, everyone. Mary Mary E. Cotter <mec Mon, Sep 7, 2009 7:56 pm RE: OT: Posting recipes and credit <<Mark (and I will not read or respond to any posts about this post on the List, off list, maybe)>> On Mon, 7 Sep 2009, Dena Jo wrote: > So basically, Mark, you want to be able to sound off in 13 paragraphs, or however long it > was, but you don't want to have to respond to anyone else. The word "coward" comes to > mind. Hmmmm.......I had a different interpretation. I do not know Mark, but thought he was simply saying that he did not want to continue this (OT) discussion on the list, but might be willing to do so off-list..... -MEC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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