For the Newbie Vego (vitamin B-12)

July 14, 2007

[edit] Sources

Vitamin B12 is naturally found in foods that harbor B12 bacteria

including meat, especially liver and shellfish, and milk products.

eggs are usually mentioned as a good source, but this is not correct

because eggs contain also a factor that blocks absorption ([28] )

Fortified breakfast cereals are a particularly valuable source of

vitamin B12 for vegetarians and vegans. Table 1 lists a variety of

food sources of vitamin B12.

B12 can be supplemented in healthy subjects by oral pill; sublingual

pill, liquid, or strip; or by injection. B12 is available singly or

in combination with other supplements. B12 supplements are available

in forms including cyanocobalamin, hydroxocobalamin, methylcobalamin,

and adenosylcobalamin (sometimes called cobamamide or dibencozide).

Cyanocobalamin is converted to its active forms, first

hydroxocobalamin and then methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin in

the liver. A 2003 study found no significant difference in absorption

for serum levels from oral vs sublingual delivery of 500 micrograms

of cobalamin [29]. Injection is useful and usually necessary in cases

where digestive absorption is impaired. Oral absorption is complex

and requires specific intestinal transport proteins (intrinsic

factor) produced in the stomach. In any case the absorption is

saturated and is rate limited.

While lacto-ovo vegetarians usually get enough B12 through dairy

products, it may be found lacking in those practicing vegan diets who

do not use multivitamin supplements or eat B12 fortified foods, such

as fortified breakfast cereals, fortified soy-based products, and

fortified energy bars. Claimed sources of B12 that have been shown

through direct studies[30] of vegans to be inadequate or unreliable

include, nori (a seaweed), barley grass, and human gut bacteria.

People on a vegan raw food diet are also susceptible to B12

deficiency if no supplementation is used[24]. The more alkaline

intestines of vegans[citation needed] are able to metabolize hydroxyl

cobalamin preferentially, a more efficient cobalamin than

cyanocobalamin.[citation needed]

A natural vegan source of B12 is the Chinese herb Dang Gui (Angelica

sinensis) [31]. The herb is used in Traditional Chinese medicine for

treating anemia.[1] Other potential sources of B12 for vegans include

Indonesian tempeh [2], ontjom, and other fermented food products.

Spirulina, an algae that has recently gained popularity as a dietary

supplement, may also contain some B12. Another source of B12 is yeast

spreads, such as Marmite, which are suitable for vegetarians and

vegans.

The Vegan Society and Vegan Outreach, among others, recommend that

vegans either consistently eat foods fortified with B12 or take a

daily or weekly B12 supplement.[32][33]

Interestingly, certain insects such as termites have been found to

contain B12. [34]

Cyanocobalamin may also found in many energy drinks.

Found this, on the net. I don't know if it will be helpful to anyone,

but I learned something. Hahahahaha.

Blessings, Jack (Pampa, Texas)

July 14, 2007

Thanks, Jack, for posting such an interesting article. Below are my

questions/comments in CAPS - not to shout, but to distinguish my

comments from your email:

> [edit] Sources

.......Table 1 lists a variety of food sources of vitamin B12.

NO TABLE 1 SHOWN; WHERE MAY I FIND A COPY?

> A natural vegan source of B12 is the Chinese herb Dang Gui

(Angelica sinensis) [31]. The herb is used in Traditional Chinese

medicine for treating anemia.[1] Other potential sources of B12 for

vegans include Indonesian tempeh [2], ontjom, and other fermented

food products. Spirulina, an algae that has recently gained

popularity as a dietary supplement, may also contain some B12.

Another source of B12 is yeast spreads, such as Marmite, which are

suitable for vegetarians and vegans.

THIS LIST IS HELPFUL; WHAT ARE OTHER SOURCES?

> The Vegan Society and Vegan Outreach, among others, recommend that

> vegans either consistently eat foods fortified with B12 or take a

> daily or weekly B12 supplement.[32][33]

> Interestingly, certain insects such as termites have been found to

> contain B12. [34]

NO CAN DO, JACK!!!

> Found this on the net. I don't know if it will be helpful to

anyone,

> but I learned something. Hahahahaha.

> Blessings, Jack (Pampa, Texas)

WHERE ON THE NET DID YOU FIND THIS ARTICLE? I'D LIKE TO READ MORE;

READING IT WAS USEFUL TO ME AND I LEARNED THAT I MUST FIND SOURCES OF

B12 OTHER THAN TERMITES!!

Thanks again, Jack,

Sandra

July 14, 2007

Thanks for all B12 info- very helpful. Since I rarely eat dairy (not

because I'm vegan- just because i loathe cheese, and dislike yoghurt

and dairy milk (soy alternatives taste nicer) I do worry about this-

but i take a B-vitamin supplement (until i find a suitable

multivitamin)...

Speaking of vitamin deficiencies- Iron. Is this actually that hard to

get? Yep- its in green vegies etc. So i go and buy frozen spinach,

and a bunch of silverbeet. Then I read something that tells me that

humans can't actually digest the iron in silverbeet and spinach

because its tied to some other nutrient that stops it. IS THIS TRUE?!

I also read something else that said calcium hampers the digestion of

iron. So does that mean my morning muesli (which has iron listed in

the nutritional panel) with my calcium-enriched-soymilk is useless?

I wonder if you can have muesli with orange juice on it... :P:P

And i was reading something that was telling me how much of stuff to

eat a day. Do i REALLY have to have 6 servings of grains a day? Thats

nuts.. thats like, muesli in the morning, sandwiches for lunch, rice

for dinner like. every day.

Man, this diet is so scary... If i didn't feel so sorry for the

animals- and dislike the taste of most meat- i would go back to being

a meat eater purely out of convenience. But no, I will prevail!

And to make matters worse, I've had a day of terrible stomach cramps

and a bit of diarhoea- obviously, my body's either not liking the new

diet as a whole, or there's one particular element in it its not

liking... (Either that, or my antibiotic medication for an infection

is making me ill...). Can anyone tell me how long i can expect that

my body will take to adjust (and no, i'm not going back to meat just

so i can transfer over slowly and easily... though i will have to if

i keep getting sick, purely because of dehydration and illness..)

July 15, 2007

Actually, never mind the ill bit... I now am the opposite of what i

was yesterday- i'm completely blocked up (or i WAS- now i'm just

feeling ill- good thing i don't have to do anything today)....

You see, my problem is that i have a few reasons for going vego-

moral issues about animals, environmental issues etc- but a big

reason is also the health aspect of going vego. So naturally, i

jumped straight into replacing my " lean 'heart smart' meat with 3

types of vegetables on the side " meals with lots of grains, seeds,

and heaps of different vegies- and wah-lah, i'm sick as a dog.

But never fear- i'm going back to exactly the way i ate as a

meateater- same amount of vegies and grains etc- only i'm replacing

the meat with tofu of TVP stuff. Then i'll gradually replace the

processed TVP stuff with vegetables, grains, beans etc- over the

course of a few weeks. I figure a few weeks where my iron, B12, and

whatever else intake is low isn't going to kill me.

Does that sound ok?

Thanks again!!

, " born_of_beltane "

<mysteriousdarkness wrote:

>

> Thanks for all B12 info- very helpful. Since I rarely eat dairy

(not

> because I'm vegan- just because i loathe cheese, and dislike

yoghurt

> and dairy milk (soy alternatives taste nicer) I do worry about this-

> but i take a B-vitamin supplement (until i find a suitable

> multivitamin)...

>

> Speaking of vitamin deficiencies- Iron. Is this actually that hard

to

> get? Yep- its in green vegies etc. So i go and buy frozen spinach,

> and a bunch of silverbeet. Then I read something that tells me that

> humans can't actually digest the iron in silverbeet and spinach

> because its tied to some other nutrient that stops it. IS THIS

TRUE?!

> I also read something else that said calcium hampers the digestion

of

> iron. So does that mean my morning muesli (which has iron listed in

> the nutritional panel) with my calcium-enriched-soymilk is useless?

>

> I wonder if you can have muesli with orange juice on it... :P:P

>

> And i was reading something that was telling me how much of stuff

to

> eat a day. Do i REALLY have to have 6 servings of grains a day?

Thats

> nuts.. thats like, muesli in the morning, sandwiches for lunch,

rice

> for dinner like. every day.

>

> Man, this diet is so scary... If i didn't feel so sorry for the

> animals- and dislike the taste of most meat- i would go back to

being

> a meat eater purely out of convenience. But no, I will prevail!

>

> And to make matters worse, I've had a day of terrible stomach

cramps

> and a bit of diarhoea- obviously, my body's either not liking the

new

> diet as a whole, or there's one particular element in it its not

> liking... (Either that, or my antibiotic medication for an

infection

> is making me ill...). Can anyone tell me how long i can expect that

> my body will take to adjust (and no, i'm not going back to meat

just

> so i can transfer over slowly and easily... though i will have to

if

> i keep getting sick, purely because of dehydration and illness..)

>

July 16, 2007

We have been more " frequent " since our change to lacto Ovo vegetarian

lifestyle. But no real problems. I suspect like you said your

antibiotic, and or detoxing - and or just an increase in fiber.

I personally find it impossible to eat 6 grains a day. So we are

looking at 3-4 a day. Corn is a grain. So polenta or grits or just plain

corn. Oats - you could go with a vegan bagel .

I have never heard of people not being able to digest the iron in

spinach etc. I know that that milk products interfere with iron

absorption. But I have never heard of it.

I would be interested in hearing more experienced posters here.

Steph

" We all want progress, but if you're on the wrong road, progress means

doing an about-turn and walking back to the right road; in that case,

the man who turns back soonest is the most progressive. "

C.S. Lewis

July 19, 2007

Yes, the iron in spinach is not very available in human digestion. That's why

Popeye is so hilarious. However, the iron in beans (including soy) is fine.

I've been a lacto-ovo-vegetarian for over 15 years and have never been anemic.

As for the grains... aside from the whole wheat,etc bread that I make, I get

brown rice and mix it with wild rice, oat groats, wheat groats, quinoa,

buckwheat groats, and any other whole grains I can find... cook it all together

just like you would brown rice... keep it in the fridge and combine it with

veggies and cheese(or tofu or whatever) for lunch and often for dinner too.

That helps to get the grains in.

Going veggie your fiber intake will go up so make sure you get enough to drink

or your BMs turn to concrete. Could be behind at least some of your problems!

Your plan sounds fine, I think a lot of people go veggie that way. Good luck!

Kathy

born_of_beltane <mysteriousdarkness

Sunday, July 15, 2007 6:48:26 PM

Re: For the Newbie Vego (vitamin B-12)