cravings and fat

[Guest guest]

rawfood , " Margaret Gamez " <mgamez wrote:

 

[...]

 

> sometimes you might eat something that is perfectly good

> according to whatever you know, but you are CRAVING something you

> used to eat... what was the factor in that?

> ex: I do a green drink in the morning... sometimes I

> positively CRAVE the old egg sandwich... what is missing? protein?

> no... my shake has that...

> I'm missing OIL... add in a T of flax oil. I'm good to go the next

time.

> What can I do in the meantime? Oh Lord -- where can I find an

avocado

> in 15 minutes????? I will just have to wait...

> SOLUTION... put flax oil in the stupid shake in the morning, and be

> done with it...

 

FWIW, Dr. Douglas Graham, in The 80/10/10 Diet, gives little

credence to cravings as any true indicator of nutritional deficit.

He points out that obese people often crave the same unhealthy

foods that got them there in the first place.

 

Similarly, Dr. Joel Fuhrman, author of Eat To Live

http://snipurl.com/1972s (Amazon link)

has also written on the inability of cravings

to guide you in determining missing nutrients.

 

> If I am eating raw, high fat is not an issue. If I

> just can't get over that high fat business, then, fooey! I will add

3

> T ground flax seed, so I am getting protein AND the fat that is

> causing me the problem....

 

Again, for the curious, and because I am currently reading the

book, Dr. Graham discusses the case where one may be presented

with either cooked, low fat food or raw, high fat. Which should

you choose? Well, he says the first, often unrecognized option

is to simply not eat at that time. However, if you are hungry

and/or want to eat to socialize, it breaks down like this. If

your diet is typically low-fat raw, then the occasional high fat

raw is OK, but make it up in the next few days with absolutely

no overt fats. On the other hand, if you tend to a higher fat

raw diet and cannot do the few days of no-overt fat afterward,

choose the low fat cooked.

 

Much of his book is devoted to explaining how the typical raw

food diet is quite high in fat and how the mere rawness of it

does not shield you from the attendant harms (of high fat).

 

 

-Erin

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

[Guest guest]

Erin, I found your comments very interesting. I'm in the process of reading

the book, myself. Next month, members of http://reallyrawfood.com/forum

will be discussing it as the Book Nook selection.

 

Erin wrote:

" FWIW, Dr. Douglas Graham, in The 80/10/10 Diet, gives little

credence to cravings as any true indicator of nutritional deficit.

He points out that obese people often crave the same unhealthy

foods that got them there in the first place. "

 

Have a wonderful raw day!

 

Tommie

http://reallyrawfood.com

 

 

[Guest guest]

rawfood , " Erin " <truepatriot wrote:

 

> FWIW, Dr. Douglas Graham, in The 80/10/10 Diet, gives little

> credence to cravings as any true indicator of

> nutritional deficit.

Yes, well... Dr. Graham *has* made a name for himself, and

*is* the food guru of many people, and there are a number of

people who follow his plan blindly.

I am not one for absolutely following any one plan blindly,

particularly not if it flies in the face of what I know works for

me.

One of the interesting things about any nutritional " theory " is

that it will work for some people but not all. This holds true

for anything that comes down the pike (how did we get 40-30-30, the

Zone, and South Beach?)

 

There are a number of nutritional theories out there vis a vis

raw food lifestyle, and I find them all quite interesting.

Although I did not " grow up " on natural hygiene, that is the one that

I tend to most closely align with.

Dr. Graham's theory is along the lines of natural hygiene, but I,

personally, find it not to my liking. I am just not going to eat that

way. This is not to say that his ideas are without value, nor that

people who are so inclined should not follow his regime.

 

I just don't do really well with people telling me what I MUST do.

As a nutritionist, I know what I must do. As a human, I know what I

will do. As an intelligent human, I realize what I am *willing* to do.

 

Raw foodists did really well for years before Dr. Graham wrote his

book. I know of at least one who probably will continue to do well

without the book (yes, it is somewhere on the bookshelf, and I do know

what it says in there)

 

> He points out that obese people often crave the same unhealthy

> foods that got them there in the first place.

 

AH... there is a missing link -- I *do* believe that cravings are valid:

Obese people (and people on special diets, such as diabetics and

people with high blood pressure, as well as people with chewing

issues, such as those without teeth, and those with other chewing or

swallowing problems owing to myriad physical issues) crave things they

are told they oughtn't to eat.

What is in those foods that they are craving? There's the rub.

If, instead of blindly flailing at people for their shortcomings, and

*telling* them what they are *doing wrong*, we take the time to

examine what they are craving when they attempt to change their diets,

we will likely find either nutritional deficits, or emotional

triggers. The fun thing is that locating the nutritional deficits and

replacing the craved foods with food items which will provide the

missing nutrient(s), often helps them overcome the cravings.

 

The " craving " I mentioned was not even a specific " craving " per se.

I was used to eating something at a certain time in the day. I went

back to my old " good ways " , and had a mental issue. Fact of the

matter is that I have always put flax oil in the shake, and I did not

do so this time. I just plain forgot.

 

It so happens that I do need the flax oil owing to some physical

issues. (many people do need some sort of Omega 3 supplement, whether

or not they realize it or do anything about it)

 

the majority of my clients who have discovered a nutrient their body

was craving have found their cravings disappear.

 

Whether or not Dr. Graham believes in cravings, enough raw foodists

do, or, at least, seem to have them (closeted or not), to the point

that we have many many many recipes for desserts, and for " ravioli " ,

" lasagna " , and " chili " , to name a few. Let's just take

a moment to think about how much some people are willing to pay for

" chocolate " substitutes (Isn't there a certain famous " guru " who

published a book about " raw chocolate " ?)

 

> Similarly, Dr. Joel Fuhrman, author of Eat To Live

> has also written on the inability of cravings

> to guide you in determining missing nutrients.

 

I feel relatively certain that Dr. Fuhrman does not mean that

a craving might not point out a nutritional deficiency, but that

he wants people to understand that a craving for ice cream does not

mean that ice cream is a necessary nutrient for them.

 

> > If I am eating raw, high fat is not an issue. If I

> > just can't get over that high fat business, then, fooey! I will

> > add 3 T ground flax seed, so I am getting protein AND the fat that

> > is causing me the problem....

>

> Again, for the curious, and because I am currently reading the

> book, Dr. Graham discusses the case where one may be presented

> with either cooked, low fat food or raw, high fat. Which should

> you choose?

 

Again, I will posit that, if a person is craving fat, they might well

need some Omega 3s -- you can get them in two ways -- by adding in

flax oil (we're vegans, remember), or by eating ground flax seed (ooh!

cool! we now have a really good reason to get Omega 3s, fiber, AND

crackers!). (how are you on your Omega 3s? Do you --or does someone

you know-- experience depression? Dry skin? The good Lord forbid-- Fat

cravings? ADHD? Bi-Polar Disorder? etc. etc. etc.?)

 

(yeah, you have to think about what your skin is looking like, and the

best way to do that is from the inside, friends... I have seen Dr.

Graham in person, and, well....)

 

> Well, he says the first, often unrecognized option

> is to simply not eat at that time.

Oh, okay... if you are suddenly, mysteriously, hungry, and you

oughtn't to be hungry then, yes, that works (how do you think I

identified my issue?)

 

> However, if you are hungry and/or want to eat to socialize,

> it breaks down like this. If your diet is typically low-fat raw,

> then the occasional high fat raw is OK, but make it up in the next

> few days with absolutely no overt fats.

 

I have to say that this would have to depend entirely on what the food

is. If we are so darned scared of " high fat raw " , then we should be

bringing our own lettuce leaf. I do not believe that depriving our

systems of fats is a healthy thing... every single cell in our bodies

uses " good fats " to build the cell walls. Our bodies need " good fats "

to stay healthy (a number of nutritional sources have suggested that

the so-called " new " diseases, such as environmental allergies, and

others, may be the result of the current high fear level against fats

of any kind which many people evince (how can you be scared of an

avocado or an almond????)

 

If you are infected with the zero fat idea, then, yes, you should

starve your body of fats of any kind whatsoever. Your skin will

ultimately get scary, and you may suffer other physical issues, in

addition to mental/emotional problems. If you are young, these things

may not show up until you are older, but... how fast do you want to

get wrinkles (even on your legs!!!), and Alzheimers?

 

Margaret

[Guest guest]

Margaret, you really went off on me there! Wow.

 

For clarification, I have no one " guru. " Like, apparently,

yourself, I pick and choose and combine theories as I see

fit. This is just the book I am currently reading.

 

On the other hand, I have *always* thought raw foodists

ate too damn much fat, with their cashew creams, avocados,

etc. at every meal. So, this matched my already existing

feelings on the subject. I personally get around 15% fat,

with an emphasis on making sure they are of the " good "

variety, including 2 Tb of flaxseeds daily.

 

As for cravings meaning something nutrionally, there

again, I have always felt that to be hogwash. It was

nice for me to see Dr. Fuhrman. who may be too main-

stream yet for some raw foodists. and therefore, esp.

the new guru on the block, Dr. Douglas, express the same.

 

 

-Erin

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

[Guest guest]

I feel the most convincing information that I read was about the different

species and the difference in each anatomy and the different types of foods

appropriate to each one in its natural state. When you compare our human

anatomy with that of a carnivorous animal, there is no way we can obtain or

properly digest flesh without the speed, the claws, ripping jaws, 10 times the

hydrochloric acid, or the short intestinal tract of that specie. Let alone

fresh raw bloody flesh would not have any appeal what so ever to us. The same

could be said of all foods in their natural state, grains, cow's milk, dead

flesh, etc. But the human in his cleverness has been able to take all these

unappealing foods and make them palatable to us. The fact that we can make them

pleasing to our taste buds, still does not make them a suitable food for our

species and the whole drug and medical system can attestify to that. That is

why I believe that after being a part of this type of a diet for so many years

that our true instincts have been so deranged that we cannot depend on any

cravings that we now have. Until we clean up our blood streams and bodies from

all this pollution, we cannot trust any cravings. I believe Dr. Graham is right

on when he gives the ideal of being 80-10-10. Every appropriate food for our

species when put thru FitDay, comes right out at those numbers. And any time we

start adding processed, fragmented, cooked foods whether they be supplements,

oils or whatever back into our diets, we are just getting back into the

cleverness that got humankind into trouble in the first place.

 

Sharon

In our hearts we plan our day, but it is God who determines our steps. Proverbs

16:9

 

 

rawfood <rawfood >, " Erin "

<truepatriot wrote:

 

> FWIW, Dr. Douglas Graham, in The 80/10/10 Diet, gives little

> credence to cravings as any true indicator of

> nutritional deficit.

Yes, well... Dr. Graham *has* made a name for himself, and

*is* the food guru of many people, and there are a number of

people who follow his plan blindly.

I am not one for absolutely following any one plan blindly,

particularly not if it flies in the face of what I know works for

me.

One of the interesting things about any nutritional " theory " is

that it will work for some people but not all. This holds true

for anything that comes down the pike (how did we get 40-30-30, the

Zone, and South Beach?)

 

There are a number of nutritional theories out there vis a vis

raw food lifestyle, and I find them all quite interesting.

Although I did not " grow up " on natural hygiene, that is the one that

I tend to most closely align with.

Dr. Graham's theory is along the lines of natural hygiene, but I,

personally, find it not to my liking. I am just not going to eat that

way. This is not to say that his ideas are without value, nor that

people who are so inclined should not follow his regime.

 

I just don't do really well with people telling me what I MUST do.

As a nutritionist, I know what I must do. As a human, I know what I

will do. As an intelligent human, I realize what I am *willing* to do.

 

Raw foodists did really well for years before Dr. Graham wrote his

book. I know of at least one who probably will continue to do well

without the book (yes, it is somewhere on the bookshelf, and I do know

what it says in there)

 

> He points out that obese people often crave the same unhealthy

> foods that got them there in the first place.

 

AH.. there is a missing link -- I *do* believe that cravings are valid:

Obese people (and people on special diets, such as diabetics and

people with high blood pressure, as well as people with chewing

issues, such as those without teeth, and those with other chewing or

swallowing problems owing to myriad physical issues) crave things they

are told they oughtn't to eat.

What is in those foods that they are craving? There's the rub.

If, instead of blindly flailing at people for their shortcomings, and

*telling* them what they are *doing wrong*, we take the time to

examine what they are craving when they attempt to change their diets,

we will likely find either nutritional deficits, or emotional

triggers. The fun thing is that locating the nutritional deficits and

replacing the craved foods with food items which will provide the

missing nutrient(s), often helps them overcome the cravings.

 

The " craving " I mentioned was not even a specific " craving " per se.

I was used to eating something at a certain time in the day. I went

back to my old " good ways " , and had a mental issue. Fact of the

matter is that I have always put flax oil in the shake, and I did not

do so this time. I just plain forgot.

 

It so happens that I do need the flax oil owing to some physical

issues. (many people do need some sort of Omega 3 supplement, whether

or not they realize it or do anything about it)

 

the majority of my clients who have discovered a nutrient their body

was craving have found their cravings disappear.

 

Whether or not Dr. Graham believes in cravings, enough raw foodists

do, or, at least, seem to have them (closeted or not), to the point

that we have many many many recipes for desserts, and for " ravioli " ,

" lasagna " , and " chili " , to name a few. Let's just take

a moment to think about how much some people are willing to pay for

" chocolate " substitutes (Isn't there a certain famous " guru " who

published a book about " raw chocolate " ?)

 

> Similarly, Dr. Joel Fuhrman, author of Eat To Live

> has also written on the inability of cravings

> to guide you in determining missing nutrients.

 

I feel relatively certain that Dr. Fuhrman does not mean that

a craving might not point out a nutritional deficiency, but that

he wants people to understand that a craving for ice cream does not

mean that ice cream is a necessary nutrient for them.

 

> > If I am eating raw, high fat is not an issue. If I

> > just can't get over that high fat business, then, fooey! I will

> > add 3 T ground flax seed, so I am getting protein AND the fat that

> > is causing me the problem....

>

> Again, for the curious, and because I am currently reading the

> book, Dr. Graham discusses the case where one may be presented

> with either cooked, low fat food or raw, high fat. Which should

> you choose?

 

Again, I will posit that, if a person is craving fat, they might well

need some Omega 3s -- you can get them in two ways -- by adding in

flax oil (we're vegans, remember), or by eating ground flax seed (ooh!

cool! we now have a really good reason to get Omega 3s, fiber, AND

crackers!). (how are you on your Omega 3s? Do you --or does someone

you know-- experience depression? Dry skin? The good Lord forbid-- Fat

cravings? ADHD? Bi-Polar Disorder? etc. etc. etc.?)

 

(yeah, you have to think about what your skin is looking like, and the

best way to do that is from the inside, friends... I have seen Dr.

Graham in person, and, well....)

 

> Well, he says the first, often unrecognized option

> is to simply not eat at that time.

Oh, okay... if you are suddenly, mysteriously, hungry, and you

oughtn't to be hungry then, yes, that works (how do you think I

identified my issue?)

 

> However, if you are hungry and/or want to eat to socialize,

> it breaks down like this. If your diet is typically low-fat raw,

> then the occasional high fat raw is OK, but make it up in the next

> few days with absolutely no overt fats.

 

I have to say that this would have to depend entirely on what the food

is. If we are so darned scared of " high fat raw " , then we should be

bringing our own lettuce leaf. I do not believe that depriving our

systems of fats is a healthy thing... every single cell in our bodies

uses " good fats " to build the cell walls. Our bodies need " good fats "

to stay healthy (a number of nutritional sources have suggested that

the so-called " new " diseases, such as environmental allergies, and

others, may be the result of the current high fear level against fats

of any kind which many people evince (how can you be scared of an

avocado or an almond????)

 

If you are infected with the zero fat idea, then, yes, you should

starve your body of fats of any kind whatsoever. Your skin will

ultimately get scary, and you may suffer other physical issues, in

addition to mental/emotional problems. If you are young, these things

may not show up until you are older, but... how fast do you want to

get wrinkles (even on your legs!!!), and Alzheimers?

 

Margaret

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Margaret,

 

I read your post with great interest--thank you for taking the time to write it!

I wanted to

share with you and any other interested parties the name of a book that made

much more

sense to me than any of those mentioned above (though they all make good points,

for

sure).

 

It's called " Maximize Immunity " by Bruno Comby--a French physicist. The book

primarily

focuses on the effects of a diet of whole, raw foods chosen instinctively on

people infected

with HIV, but it provides a plethora of valuable information for all of us--on

viruses and

bacteria (vital to us, he theorizes convincingly, and only dangerous and

potentially lethal

to toxic systems, ie. people ingesting large quantities of unnatural molecules,

most

importantly from cooked, processed foods), on enzymes and detoxification (using

real

scientific language, no talk of " life force energy, " however real that may

be...) AND on

instinctive eating--again in (understandable) scientific terms, he explains how

the

olfactory sense works to tell us exactly what our body needs at that time. He

shows that

what we crave and indeed what our body needs can change drastically from day to

day,

even from minute to minute. While he concedes that most (SAD) people's

" cravings " are no

more than addiction-responses from confused sensory systems, he believes (from

his

experiments) that no more than one week of 100% raw, whole-food eating (ie. no

10-

ingredient food-combining dehydrated rehydrated sour-cherry raw " cheesecakes " )

is

necessary for the instinctive eating mechanism to start working again.

 

In short: eat raw whole foods, choose them instinctively. After one week of

eating this

way, anything you crave is probably a VERY good indicator of what your body

needs!

 

Have a great day!

 

-Storm

 

ps. Institut Bruno Comby's website: www.comby.org

[Guest guest]

Hi Erin,

 

I agree with your point (or actually Dr. Graham's) about cravings

not being a true indicator of nutritional deficit (I would add the

word sometimes, because sometimes they can--I chewed ice for 4 years

before I realized that I was iron-deficient. When my iron issue was

fixed, I never wanted to have ice in my mouth again!).

 

But I also think that there can be a danger in getting too focused

on a scientific expert telling us how to think. If you start really

researching all of the different experts and their clashing ideas

(all supposedly based on scientific evidence) your head begins to

feel like it's going to explode. At least mine does anyway. Does

our own intuition or unique body chemistry have any relevence?

 

For example, I don't eat raw potatoes or sprouted beans (except

lentils) because they taste inherently wrong to me. Not bad, like

something spoiled, but just not right. But clearly some people like

the taste and feel fine eating those things.

 

Part of the trick to using intuition is to look carefully at an

issue from many angles. I have a friend who swears that following

Nourishing Traditions (a diet very high in animal products, for

those of you who don't know) gives her incredible energy. She is

100 pounds overweight and can't understand why she can't seem to

lose the weight. She is currently undergoing a lot of colon

cleansing. Well, she's not really looking at the big picture, is

she? If you are craving something, really look at the craving from

all angles. Are you thirsty? What foods have you eaten recently?

Are you stressed? Think about what others have said, even experts,

sure, but don't allow their voices to drown out the " voice in your

head. "

 

, marjorie

 

rawfood , " Erin " <truepatriot wrote:

 

>

> FWIW, Dr. Douglas Graham, in The 80/10/10 Diet, gives little

> credence to cravings as any true indicator of nutritional deficit.

> He points out that obese people often crave the same unhealthy

> foods that got them there in the first place.

[Guest guest]

Dr. Doug Graham and his ideas may be new to this forum but he's been eating

raw for a long time. As for 80/10/10 vegan being new, it isn't. Dr. D. is

just the first to attach " raw " to it. I was on a cooked 80/10/10 plan back

in the late 70's and it wasn't " new " then. It does make sense, though,

because that's what foods break down to be when no free fats are added and

nuts, seeds, and avocados are eaten sparingly which is how we would eat them

if we couldn't go to the store and buy them.

 

My forum at http://reallyrawfood.com/forum is focused on 80/10/10 raw vegan.

We have a good group there with lots of support. Come check it out! You

don't have to join to read most of the categories. There's a Members Only

area that isn't visible to the public but you can get lots of information

otherwise.

 

Everyone, have a good raw day!

 

Tommie

http://reallyrawfood.com

 

There is no key to happiness ~ the door is always open. - Anonymous

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

rawfood , " Marjorie " <marjorie_lewis wrote:

>

> Hi Erin,

>

> I agree with your point (or actually Dr. Graham's) about cravings

> not being a true indicator of nutritional deficit (I would add the

> word sometimes, because sometimes they can--I chewed ice for 4

years

> before I realized that I was iron-deficient. When my iron issue

was

> fixed, I never wanted to have ice in my mouth again!).

 

Does ice have a lot of iron?!

 

> But I also think that there can be a danger in getting too focused

> on a scientific expert telling us how to think. If you start

really

> researching all of the different experts and their clashing ideas

> (all supposedly based on scientific evidence) your head begins to

> feel like it's going to explode. At least mine does anyway. Does

> our own intuition or unique body chemistry have any relevence?

 

You bet. I quite enjoy researching the clashing experts/ideas!

This, of course, forces me to choose bits and pieces of each based

on what I feel is right or makes more sense or is most convincing,

etc..

 

It would be a grave misunderstanding to interpret any of my

citations to mean I *blindly* follow any of these guys.

 

 

Thanks for the opportunity to clarify,

-Erin

www.zenpawn.com/vegblog