Leather and Animal Product poll: Please comment

[Guest guest]

Hey All!

 

I am currently working on a book on the raw foods movement and

elements often not touched upon enough, and I have a question I'm

hoping others can help me with.

 

I have noticed that most raw foodists are NOT vegans. Even if they

don't eat animal products (most raw foodists thankfully don't), they

still wear leather, wool, buy leather furniture, and more. Usually

their body care products are more cruelty-free because they are more

natural, which goes along with leading a less-toxic life.

 

We all know fur is awful, but leather and wool are equally cruel.

Becoming more in tune with nature as raw foodists generally makes us

feel more connected to the environment. Leather tanneries are known

for higher rates of cancer in the surrounding area, but most

importantly, the cruelty is overwhelming in terms of both leather and

wool, but few seem to care enough to stop supporting such cruel and

unnecessary businesses.

 

To see more of what I'm talking about, please check www.youtube.com

and search " wool leather " and the videos of mulesling (sp?) and

leather production, what REALLY goes on, will appear.

 

I would love to know more feedback for my book as to why raw foodists

are not interested in embracing veganism. I have never understood

this at all.

 

Thank you! And if you would prefer to respond personally, I am at

SchoolOfRawk

 

Erica

[Guest guest]

For me, a good rule of thumb, for anything but also in regards to

eating raw food: It is a tool, not a rule.

 

What turns me off is some of the militant-ism displayed by some of

these movements and their members.

For example, not long ago eating fish was being discussed in the

forums, and a member responded by posting a video showing dolphins

being slaughtered in the most inhumane way possible, therefore

implying that that is what fish-eaters do in general. Absolutely

ridiculous, bordering on a violent attack mediated through the net,

and a comparison completely without merit.

One might argue that such a sensationalist tactic as that gets the

point across, but, I find the people who use such tactics to sometimes

be very disrespectful and demeaning to others in the first place.

 

If I can make my own sensationalist claim: As we have seen recently,

there is far too much extremism in the world already. We need not

feed or support such extremist attitudes, which themselves can do

nothing but lead to hate and fear, and their eventual consequences.

 

Crunching the numbers of a non-extremist approach to getting the

population to eat more raw speaks for itself:

90% of the population eating raw 60% of the time, is way better than

10% of the population eating raw 90% of the time.

But such a movement will never be taken seriously, or will ever be

listened to with at least a modicum of open-mindedness, if meat-eaters

are continually compared to the dolphin-slaughterers and hide-tanners

and drug-testers etc etc...10% of the population eating raw would be

the best to ever hope for.

 

I think raw foodists DO embrace and support veganism and not using

animal products. For sure! But it is not in the nature of most

rawfoodists to be militant about the issue, and just because most of

them aren't doesn't mean they don't support it. Also, referring to

above, if someone eats raw 50-90% of the time, they are already doing

a heck of a lot to support veganism and slow down the animal industry.

Rawfoodists support vaganism and are against animal cruelty simply by

the fact that they eat raw food as a substantial part of their diet!

If you're looking for more than that...why, and what?

However, it is fairly obvious that rawfoodists are also interested in

a natural diet - that why they eat so much raw food! But if eating

only raw fruits and veggies leads eventually to deficiency and an

unhealthy state, then the 100% raw food diet simply can not stand as a

reasonable way to live out ones life, and it can not be called a

" natural " diet. All that has been discussed elsewhere and I don't

want to get back into the issue.

HOWEVER, a deficiency is termed only in regards to the average values

in our populations, and IN the average population a deficiency may

only be problematic because of the generally poor diet. Meaning that

it is fundamentally difficult to asses the health consequences of a

deficiency in a rawfoodist, because such studies have never been done.

Correlations between b12 deficiency and lethargy (for example,

whether its true or not) in the average cooked-food population may

simply break down in the rawfoodist, or be completely different.

 

Anyway, hope this was insightful in some way

 

Cheers!

 

Joe

 

 

 

 

> I would love to know more feedback for my book as to why raw foodists

> are not interested in embracing veganism. I have never understood

> this at all.

>

> Thank you! And if you would prefer to respond personally, I am at

> SchoolOfRawk

>

> Erica

>

[Guest guest]

But such a movement will never be taken seriously, or will ever be

listened to with at least a modicum of open-mindedness, if meat-eaters

are continually compared to the dolphin-slaughterers and hide-tanners

and drug-testers etc etc...

 

But how are people who eat meat and fish not responsible for the

actions if their demand is what is causing the dolphin slaughter,

which is directly linked to industrial fishing? And how is the use of

leather not creating the demand for animal skin?

 

I guess I have never seen it as extremism. We practice a zero

tolerance for people who maim and/or horribly abuse puppies, etc, or

people who abuse children. We don't say that we sometimes disagree,

but just not strongly enough, for fear of being seen as militant.

 

I'm not talking about ALF members bombing animal testing labs

(although they have never hurt a human or animal to date, just

property, not that this is a discussion I want to get into) or the

extremism some pro-lifers go to bombing abortion clinics. I am

talking about not buying leather shoes or couches and/or wool stuff

100% of the time, and along those lines. Most raw foodists seem to

still be apathetic towards the issue unless it concerns their

immediate health/themselves. Thankfully, a lot aren't.

 

I just wonder if this is because most of the raw leaders who write

the books, etc. fail to acknowledge this aspect of the lifestyle as

well. Most do not. So most people cannot help but be less educated in

this field. Does that make sense and/or sound like a honest

assessment?

 

Thank you so much for your feedback, Joe. Aren't you the Joe that

watched Earthlings? So you know what I'm talking about.

[Guest guest]

the way I figure it is: people are going to do what they are

going to do.

you come on this list and you talk to people and they say what

they say, and there you have it.

You are never going to meet most of the people on the list.

You can only take them, quite literally, at face value. You must

decide for yourself whether or not you believe what they say.

 

this is, in fact, an very " clean " idea.

what I mean by that is that you cannot see these people who are

suggesting to you, or *telling* you, how to eat.

 

You cannot see their shoes. You cannot see their haircare products.

You cannot see their winter clothes.

 

All you can see is the ideas they propose. How clean!

 

You cannot follow them blindly, because you do not know what is

on their feet! (even if they told you here, you would just have to

believe them.. you cannot see any proof!)

 

that gives the newbie a bit more work, and/or makes it a bit

easier/difficult to figure out how to pursure a raw food lifestyle.

It puts the responsibility back on the " eater " , requiring each eater

to examine exactly what is involved in her/his commitment.

 

By me, whatever gets you to go raw is enough. However raw you go is

good enough for you right now. What anybody else does is of no concern

to you.

what that means is, if you have a closetful of leather shoes, you need

not jump out a window or donate all your shoes to charity (unless you

so desire).

If you are a cheesecake addict, you might consider giving it up, or

finding raw cheesecake recipe that you are willing to make or just

eating the @$% & cheesecake and being done with it!

 

Ultimately, what you are going to do is what *you* are going to do.

that is all between you and you, or between you and your own kitchen.

You do not need to listen to other people telling you WHAT to do

(unless, of course, you want to be told)

 

everything that we do in our lives is an experiment, as I see it. You

do whatever and then wait to see how that worked for you (whether or

not you are conscious of the action_

If you follow someone's advice, you nake that choice.

 

eat what seems appropriate to you.

Margaret

 

 

 

this situation is a beautiful thing. You have to see what others are

saying, and then think for yourself what makes sense to you. You

cannot have a *guru*, really, because what if you met that " guru " ?

what if that " guru " looked unhealthy to you? what if that " guru " were

wearing leather shoes? blah blah blah....

 

what is beautiful about this list is that you have to make up your own

mind all by yourself, and decide where you, yourself want to go, after

you listen to everybody's ideas, advice and *pontifications*.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response! It didn't really help me in terms of the question I

asked, but I respectfully disagree that what people do doesn't affect anybody

else, etc. I think it's evident by the global warming caused by factory farming

and how it is affecting everybody and our children's futures, etc. I think the

people in New Orleans or Thailand (tsunami) would disagree about not being

affected by other's decisions in that respect. Besides, what you eat or wear can

and does affect another creature, too. That is the point of my poll. :-)

 

Erica Albanese

School Of RAWk

Certified Raw Nutritionist, Health Coach & Raw Chef

Freelance Writer & Advanced Practitioner of The Living Foods Lifestyle

Eugene, OR

(541) 915 - 1995

SchoolOfRAWk

www.SchoolOfRAWk.com - Copming Soon!

 

Join School Of RAWk on MySpace at www.myspace.com/SchoolOfRAWk

 

" One cannot come closer to the Gods than by bringing health to his fellowman " ~

Socrates

 

 

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible " new car " smell?

Check outnew cars at Autos.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Greetings Erica,

 

I see everything as an interconnected whole and I have gotten rid of

all my wool and leather products recently, about a month ago. I

started raw vegan in sept '06, but I had many leather and wool

products since these were given to me as gifts by my parents. I did

feel a bit guilty throwing them away, being that the animal has

already suffered. So to discard the items into the trash bin without

further use seemed like a waste of life -- perhaps I should have tried

composting the items or something! Ultimately, I did it in order to

represent my ideals. In february I was telling others about my diet

and lifestyle but they saw leather shoes on me and they teased me

dismissively. I said they were a gift and everything got left at that,

and I was effectively shut down. I wear petroleum/plant shoes now and

try to use hemp as much as possible. The soap I use is vegan and I've

been eating vegan and mostly raw with a few slip ups between my ideals

and desires/behavior.

 

For me personally, I did feel a weight lift off my shoulders when I

discarded the animal product items in my possession. I can't explain

it, but found my desires to eat animal products to be less after this.

Ah, the power of the mind, no? At least I felt more like I was walking

the talk I talked in a more integral whole.

 

Thanks everyone for everything.

 

Namaste,

Bobby

 

 

rawfood , " Erica " <schoolofrawk wrote:

>

> Hey All!

>

> I am currently working on a book on the raw foods movement and

> elements often not touched upon enough, and I have a question I'm

> hoping others can help me with.

>

> I have noticed that most raw foodists are NOT vegans. Even if they

> don't eat animal products (most raw foodists thankfully don't), they

> still wear leather, wool, buy leather furniture, and more. Usually

> their body care products are more cruelty-free because they are more

> natural, which goes along with leading a less-toxic life.

>

> We all know fur is awful, but leather and wool are equally cruel.

> Becoming more in tune with nature as raw foodists generally makes us

> feel more connected to the environment. Leather tanneries are known

> for higher rates of cancer in the surrounding area, but most

> importantly, the cruelty is overwhelming in terms of both leather and

> wool, but few seem to care enough to stop supporting such cruel and

> unnecessary businesses.

>

> To see more of what I'm talking about, please check www.youtube.com

> and search " wool leather " and the videos of mulesling (sp?) and

> leather production, what REALLY goes on, will appear.

>

> I would love to know more feedback for my book as to why raw foodists

> are not interested in embracing veganism. I have never understood

> this at all.

>

> Thank you! And if you would prefer to respond personally, I am at

> SchoolOfRawk

>

> Erica

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Bobby. I totally agree with you - it's a matter of making

more effective decisions TODAY and not necessarily having to throw

out your couches, momentos, etc.

 

That is my point, I guess: Going raw raises your consciousness and

reminds us of how all things are related and interconnected.

 

And making more compassionate other choices on top of diet would

seem to follow - it's kind of an awakening, or an enlightenment

(although " compassion " per se is not the reason most GO raw, which

make sense then as to why a lot don't really care to keep growing in

that direction or aren't concerned with it).

 

I'm just curious, that's all. I understand that to each their own,

but animal industries are operating in the same fashion as black

slavery did in the 1800's, as is best illustrated in the small but

effective book THE DREADED COMPARISON, by Marjorie Speigel (sp?) and

about animal and human slavery. Most people did not say that it was

the southern man's right to do what he wants, and who is anybody

else to question? And mostly so because they understood another life

is involved, that has inherent rights, too (as much as blacks were

referred to unintelligent feelingless " beasts " - that was the same

misconception that we have today about animals --- yet another

dreaded comparison, I reckon).

[Guest guest]

well said Margaret.

 

Margaret Gamez <mgamez wrote: the way I figure it is:

people are going to do what they are

going to do.

you come on this list and you talk to people and they say what

they say, and there you have it.

You are never going to meet most of the people on the list.

You can only take them, quite literally, at face value. You must

decide for yourself whether or not you believe what they say.

 

this is, in fact, an very " clean " idea.

what I mean by that is that you cannot see these people who are

suggesting to you, or *telling* you, how to eat.

 

You cannot see their shoes. You cannot see their haircare products.

You cannot see their winter clothes.

 

All you can see is the ideas they propose. How clean!

 

You cannot follow them blindly, because you do not know what is

on their feet! (even if they told you here, you would just have to

believe them.. you cannot see any proof!)

 

that gives the newbie a bit more work, and/or makes it a bit

easier/difficult to figure out how to pursure a raw food lifestyle.

It puts the responsibility back on the " eater " , requiring each eater

to examine exactly what is involved in her/his commitment.

 

By me, whatever gets you to go raw is enough. However raw you go is

good enough for you right now. What anybody else does is of no concern

to you.

what that means is, if you have a closetful of leather shoes, you need

not jump out a window or donate all your shoes to charity (unless you

so desire).

If you are a cheesecake addict, you might consider giving it up, or

finding raw cheesecake recipe that you are willing to make or just

eating the @$% & cheesecake and being done with it!

 

Ultimately, what you are going to do is what *you* are going to do.

that is all between you and you, or between you and your own kitchen.

You do not need to listen to other people telling you WHAT to do

(unless, of course, you want to be told)

 

everything that we do in our lives is an experiment, as I see it. You

do whatever and then wait to see how that worked for you (whether or

not you are conscious of the action_

If you follow someone's advice, you nake that choice.

 

eat what seems appropriate to you.

Margaret

 

this situation is a beautiful thing. You have to see what others are

saying, and then think for yourself what makes sense to you. You

cannot have a *guru*, really, because what if you met that " guru " ?

what if that " guru " looked unhealthy to you? what if that " guru " were

wearing leather shoes? blah blah blah....

 

what is beautiful about this list is that you have to make up your own

mind all by yourself, and decide where you, yourself want to go, after

you listen to everybody's ideas, advice and *pontifications*.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Terry Lynn Bakhtiari

May God bless you

Today and always.

www.terrywithpcos.blogspot.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible " new car " smell?

Check outnew cars at Autos.

 

 

[Guest guest]

" You are never going to meet most of the people on the list.

You can only take them, quite literally, at face value. You must

decide for yourself whether or not you believe what they say.

 

this is, in fact, an very " clean " idea.

what I mean by that is that you cannot see these people who are

suggesting to you, or *telling* you, how to eat.

 

You cannot see their shoes. You cannot see their haircare products.

You cannot see their winter clothes.

 

All you can see is the ideas they propose. How clean! "

 

None of this, along with pretty much everything else written in this post, has

anything to do with the question at hand as far as personal decisions as to

whether to support cruelty or not goes, though. That's all. I agree with all you

wrote, I just fail to see what it has to do with whether you can see people and

all that jazz. But thank you for your input!

 

 

Erica Albanese

School Of RAWk

Certified Raw Nutritionist, Health Coach & Raw Chef

Freelance Writer & Advanced Practitioner of The Living Foods Lifestyle

Eugene, OR

(541) 915 - 1995

SchoolOfRAWk

www.SchoolOfRAWk.com - Coming Soon!

 

Join School Of RAWk on MySpace at www.myspace.com/SchoolOfRAWk

 

" One cannot come closer to the Gods than by bringing health to his fellowman " ~

Socrates

 

 

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible " new car " smell?

Check outnew cars at Autos.