My Take on Elchanan (WAS) Out of balance

May 20, 2007

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to share my outlook on Elchanan. I've been a member of this group for

quite a while, and have been a member of Path of Health since just a few days

after its formation. Elchanan is a complex man.

Honestly, I empathize with what many of you may be feeling : ) In the

beginning, I too thought Elchanan seemed like a " know it all " . His posts made

me angry, raised my blood pressure. I thought he was the biggest fraud and cult

leader wanna be. It seemed he had an answer for everything, and seemed brash and

haughty. But...also like many of you, his posts are compelling, and I was

found myself not wanting to filter out his messages.

For a long time, even *after* joining Path of Health, I read his posts with an

eye toward picking them apart, as well as shaking my head at his heavy

handedness. BUT.....I noticed that unlike many others who call themselves

experts, Elchanan is *consistent* in his message. Not on diet alone, but on

physiology as a whole, and even on diverse and unrelated topics.

We are not " followers " of Elchanan. I doubt any one of us who cherish his

insight agree fully with everything he has to say on every topic. But at least

he has an opinion, at least he take the time to answer questions fully. He

doesn't advocate one thing this week, and another the next. He doesn't have a

website claiming hisself " World Authority " of anything. He doesn't have a

commerce site full of the overpriced supplement/superfood/bullsh%* of the

moment. All he does is offer his personal insight, and he offers it freely. If

you do choose to be a long term member of Path of Health, the tiny member fee is

less than the dues at WeightWatchers!!! And how many of us have paid for that

or similar things with NO return of insight or genuine community?? If you get

to know him, you will see that he is fully human, admits mistakes, has a

wonderful sense of humor, is compassionate, quirky, and generous with his words,

time, and resources. He is always ready to learn new things. He is not didactic

or close minded.

My point is not to convine any of you to adore Elchanan. I only ask that you do

two things: first, read what he has to say for a while...he grows on you as you

get to see his patient consistency, and second, examine your discomfort with his

postings. Is your discomfort more about you than it is him? How does it hurt

you for him to post often and opinionatedly? Do you have better answers to the

questions he responds to? If so...post away, instead of bemoaning that he is

trying to dominate the group.

For a while, try to see his gift to you. He is offering what he has to give.

Last...have any of you considered how unkind you have been to him? What if

someone were saying these things about you? What if you belonged to a group

that you felt passionately about...like, I don't know...rose gardening, animal

rescue, etc. I bet that as opinionated as Elchanan may be, and even if he is

incorrect about every subject he writes about, I maintain that you have hurt

him. Isn't raw veganism somewhat about raising our lives on all levels? Isn't

kindness and compassion a worthy ideal?

How easily we disregard the feelings of others.

To new members: keep your eyes open on this journey. Elchanan is a voice in

the wilderness.

To complaining members: Let's see your opinions about these topics instead of

your opinion on Elchanan's post count.

To Elchanan: Thank You.

Thanks for listening!

Lisa Fine

-

Judy

rawfood

Sunday, May 20, 2007 3:54 PM

Re: [Raw Food] Out of balance

Just wanted to say that I love reading Elchanan's posts. I find them very

interesting, even in the times I don't agree with everything, and I can

appreciate Elchanan taking the time to reply/share knowledge/etc.

I also wanted to say that if there are people you'd rather not hear from on

the list, just go to your mail filters and set it so their posts go directly

into your trash. That way you're not bothered by them, and you don't have to

read them or even see them. I've done that with people I thought were obnoxious

(not on this list, but on others) and it solves the problem neatly, and the

people who enjoy the person's posts can continue to enjoy them.

Just my 2 cents.

Best wishes,

Judy

> > >

> > > This is my opinion, but I feel this group is being

> > > dominated by one poster

> > > Elchanan who responds to nearly every post with

> > > lengthy opinions stated as

> > >

Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.

Play Sims Stories at Games.

May 21, 2007

I posted a response to someones question about constipation from my personal

experience, I was not asking for info. And he replied that my son had

emotional problems that is why he got constipated when he ate bananas and

that I should only be breastfeeding him without giving him food. Why should

I follow what he is telling me to do when millions of doctors say otherwise,

he has no physical evidence to support what he is saying. well I strongly

disagree is that not what groups are about I didnt realize we had to agree

with him. This is the attitude he puts across in his posts and he will keep

sending these posts until you see it his way. This is my issue. One of the

first times I have posted a response to a question I get badgered on what I

should be doing with my child. If he had these so called emotional problems

why doesnt he get constipated when he eats other fruits or veggies.

hmmmmmmmmm! I am just trying to explain myself better so people can

understand.

> " Lisa & Mica Fine " <lisafine

>rawfood

><rawfood >

>[Raw Food] My Take on Elchanan (WAS) Out of balance

>Sun, 20 May 2007 16:29:20 -0600

>

>Hello Everyone,

>

>I wanted to share my outlook on Elchanan. I've been a member of this group

>for quite a while, and have been a member of Path of Health since just a

>few days after its formation. Elchanan is a complex man.

>

>Honestly, I empathize with what many of you may be feeling : ) In the

>beginning, I too thought Elchanan seemed like a " know it all " . His posts

>made me angry, raised my blood pressure. I thought he was the biggest

>fraud and cult leader wanna be. It seemed he had an answer for everything,

>and seemed brash and haughty. But...also like many of you, his posts are

>compelling, and I was found myself not wanting to filter out his messages.

>

>For a long time, even *after* joining Path of Health, I read his posts with

>an eye toward picking them apart, as well as shaking my head at his heavy

>handedness. BUT.....I noticed that unlike many others who call themselves

>experts, Elchanan is *consistent* in his message. Not on diet alone, but

>on physiology as a whole, and even on diverse and unrelated topics.

>

>We are not " followers " of Elchanan. I doubt any one of us who cherish his

>insight agree fully with everything he has to say on every topic. But at

>least he has an opinion, at least he take the time to answer questions

>fully. He doesn't advocate one thing this week, and another the next. He

>doesn't have a website claiming hisself " World Authority " of anything. He

>doesn't have a commerce site full of the overpriced

>supplement/superfood/bullsh%* of the moment. All he does is offer his

>personal insight, and he offers it freely. If you do choose to be a long

>term member of Path of Health, the tiny member fee is less than the dues at

>WeightWatchers!!! And how many of us have paid for that or similar things

>with NO return of insight or genuine community?? If you get to know him,

>you will see that he is fully human, admits mistakes, has a wonderful sense

>of humor, is compassionate, quirky, and generous with his words, time, and

>resources. He is always ready to learn new things. He is not didactic or

>close minded.

>

>My point is not to convine any of you to adore Elchanan. I only ask that

>you do two things: first, read what he has to say for a while...he grows

>on you as you get to see his patient consistency, and second, examine your

>discomfort with his postings. Is your discomfort more about you than it is

>him? How does it hurt you for him to post often and opinionatedly? Do you

>have better answers to the questions he responds to? If so...post away,

>instead of bemoaning that he is trying to dominate the group.

>

>For a while, try to see his gift to you. He is offering what he has to

>give.

>

>Last...have any of you considered how unkind you have been to him? What if

>someone were saying these things about you? What if you belonged to a

>group that you felt passionately about...like, I don't know...rose

>gardening, animal rescue, etc. I bet that as opinionated as Elchanan may

>be, and even if he is incorrect about every subject he writes about, I

>maintain that you have hurt him. Isn't raw veganism somewhat about raising

>our lives on all levels? Isn't kindness and compassion a worthy ideal?

>

>How easily we disregard the feelings of others.

>

>To new members: keep your eyes open on this journey. Elchanan is a voice

>in the wilderness.

>

>To complaining members: Let's see your opinions about these topics instead

>of your opinion on Elchanan's post count.

>

>To Elchanan: Thank You.

>

>Thanks for listening!

>Lisa Fine

>

> -

> Judy

> rawfood

> Sunday, May 20, 2007 3:54 PM

> Re: [Raw Food] Out of balance

>

> Just wanted to say that I love reading Elchanan's posts. I find them

>very interesting, even in the times I don't agree with everything, and I

>can appreciate Elchanan taking the time to reply/share knowledge/etc.

>

> I also wanted to say that if there are people you'd rather not hear from

>on the list, just go to your mail filters and set it so their posts go

>directly into your trash. That way you're not bothered by them, and you

>don't have to read them or even see them. I've done that with people I

>thought were obnoxious (not on this list, but on others) and it solves the

>problem neatly, and the people who enjoy the person's posts can continue to

>enjoy them.

>

> Just my 2 cents.

> Best wishes,

> Judy

>

> > > >

> > > > This is my opinion, but I feel this group is being

> > > > dominated by one poster

> > > > Elchanan who responds to nearly every post with

> > > > lengthy opinions stated as

> > > >

>

> Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.

> Play Sims Stories at Games.

>

May 21, 2007

you werent wrong sarah. You had a viable concern and it was addressed.

Pretty simple really except some want to make it into something its

not.

i wish we could move on. We have so many hungry people here.......

anna 8=)

On 5/20/07, sarah shaw <hppymummy wrote:

> I posted a response to someones question about constipation from my personal

> experience, I was not asking for info. And he replied that my son had

> emotional problems that is why he got constipated when he ate bananas and

> that I should only be breastfeeding him without giving him food. Why should

> I follow what he is telling me to do when millions of doctors say otherwise,

> he has no physical evidence to support what he is saying. well I strongly

> disagree is that not what groups are about I didnt realize we had to agree

> with him. This is the attitude he puts across in his posts and he will keep

> sending these posts until you see it his way. This is my issue. One of the

> first times I have posted a response to a question I get badgered on what I

> should be doing with my child. If he had these so called emotional problems

> why doesnt he get constipated when he eats other fruits or veggies.

> hmmmmmmmmm! I am just trying to explain myself better so people can

> understand.

>

> > " Lisa & Mica Fine " <lisafine

> >rawfood

> ><rawfood >

> >[Raw Food] My Take on Elchanan (WAS) Out of balance

> >Sun, 20 May 2007 16:29:20 -0600

> >

> >Hello Everyone,

> >

> >I wanted to share my outlook on Elchanan. I've been a member of this group

> >for quite a while, and have been a member of Path of Health since just a

> >few days after its formation. Elchanan is a complex man.

> >

> >Honestly, I empathize with what many of you may be feeling : ) In the

> >beginning, I too thought Elchanan seemed like a " know it all " . His posts

> >made me angry, raised my blood pressure. I thought he was the biggest

> >fraud and cult leader wanna be. It seemed he had an answer for everything,

> >and seemed brash and haughty. But...also like many of you, his posts are

> >compelling, and I was found myself not wanting to filter out his messages.

> >

> >For a long time, even *after* joining Path of Health, I read his posts with

> >an eye toward picking them apart, as well as shaking my head at his heavy

> >handedness. BUT.....I noticed that unlike many others who call themselves

> >experts, Elchanan is *consistent* in his message. Not on diet alone, but

> >on physiology as a whole, and even on diverse and unrelated topics.

> >

> >We are not " followers " of Elchanan. I doubt any one of us who cherish his

> >insight agree fully with everything he has to say on every topic. But at

> >least he has an opinion, at least he take the time to answer questions

> >fully. He doesn't advocate one thing this week, and another the next. He

> >doesn't have a website claiming hisself " World Authority " of anything. He

> >doesn't have a commerce site full of the overpriced

> >supplement/superfood/bullsh%* of the moment. All he does is offer his

> >personal insight, and he offers it freely. If you do choose to be a long

> >term member of Path of Health, the tiny member fee is less than the dues at

> >WeightWatchers!!! And how many of us have paid for that or similar things

> >with NO return of insight or genuine community?? If you get to know him,

> >you will see that he is fully human, admits mistakes, has a wonderful sense

> >of humor, is compassionate, quirky, and generous with his words, time, and

> >resources. He is always ready to learn new things. He is not didactic or

> >close minded.

> >

> >My point is not to convine any of you to adore Elchanan. I only ask that

> >you do two things: first, read what he has to say for a while...he grows

> >on you as you get to see his patient consistency, and second, examine your

> >discomfort with his postings. Is your discomfort more about you than it is

> >him? How does it hurt you for him to post often and opinionatedly? Do you

> >have better answers to the questions he responds to? If so...post away,

> >instead of bemoaning that he is trying to dominate the group.

> >

> >For a while, try to see his gift to you. He is offering what he has to

> >give.

> >

> >Last...have any of you considered how unkind you have been to him? What if

> >someone were saying these things about you? What if you belonged to a

> >group that you felt passionately about...like, I don't know...rose

> >gardening, animal rescue, etc. I bet that as opinionated as Elchanan may

> >be, and even if he is incorrect about every subject he writes about, I

> >maintain that you have hurt him. Isn't raw veganism somewhat about raising

> >our lives on all levels? Isn't kindness and compassion a worthy ideal?

> >

> >How easily we disregard the feelings of others.

> >

> >To new members: keep your eyes open on this journey. Elchanan is a voice

> >in the wilderness.

> >

> >To complaining members: Let's see your opinions about these topics instead

> >of your opinion on Elchanan's post count.

> >

> >To Elchanan: Thank You.

> >

> >Thanks for listening!

> >Lisa Fine

> >

> > -

> > Judy

> > rawfood

> > Sunday, May 20, 2007 3:54 PM

> > Re: [Raw Food] Out of balance

> >

> > Just wanted to say that I love reading Elchanan's posts. I find them

> >very interesting, even in the times I don't agree with everything, and I

> >can appreciate Elchanan taking the time to reply/share knowledge/etc.

> >

> > I also wanted to say that if there are people you'd rather not hear from

> >on the list, just go to your mail filters and set it so their posts go

> >directly into your trash. That way you're not bothered by them, and you

> >don't have to read them or even see them. I've done that with people I

> >thought were obnoxious (not on this list, but on others) and it solves the

> >problem neatly, and the people who enjoy the person's posts can continue to

> >enjoy them.

> >

> > Just my 2 cents.

> > Best wishes,

> > Judy

> >

> > > > >

> > > > > This is my opinion, but I feel this group is being

> > > > > dominated by one poster

> > > > > Elchanan who responds to nearly every post with

> > > > > lengthy opinions stated as

> > > > >

> >

> > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story.

> > Play Sims Stories at Games.

> >

May 21, 2007

Lisa,

I personally am ready to move on. However, I had to say, I share your sentiment

in this well stated post. I know for me, I tend to get angry when somewhere in

side me I might be feeling a tad guilty that the person might be right about

something and I become defensive. I never once got that he was making any

assertions that anyone was a bad parent. It is easier to look outward than to

look inward. I also feel the unkindness towards him, whether intentionally or

not. Regardless.........

It may be time to just agree that we will not always agree on things and It is

ok.

This is still an awesome group. I do feel that he has valuable information that

we ALL can benefit from (If we allow ourselves to) and we are still free to

take what works and leave the rest for those that want it. At the dinner table,

I will pass the peas because I don't like peas. I'll take some mashed

potatoes... j/k

May we continue with him, and whomever might want to participate?

May we be led away from discourse and on to the path to raw!!

Respectfully,

Jeannie

your time is the most cherished gift of all, tomorrow is promised to no one.

Lisa & Mica Fine <lisafine

rawfood

Sunday, May 20, 2007 5:29:20 PM

[Raw Food] My Take on Elchanan (WAS) Out of balance