Big Medicine TV show and personal responsibility

June 20, 2007

you dont blame the feeders because unless theyr putting a gun

to the eaters head, it is the eater that is choosing to eat.

a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

to alter our judgment in the same way. the twinkie defense

failed, remember?

i should warn you all, if you havent figured it out, that i am very

big on personal responsibility. the buck stops here.

stop blaming other people for what we do to ourselves.

conciously or unconciously this person got here by his mouth.

he could have chosen at any time to stop eating, chewing, and

swallowing.

to blame the family is to take all responsibility away from him.

so when he loses the weight, is he going to avoid his family

because they may expose him to food again? huh??

hes going to have to control HIMSELF. food is everywhere!

i feel for him, my heart breaks at stories like this, but if IIII can

stop eating at a particular weight, others can too.

was 300lbs not enough to stop? how bout 400?...surely when

he reached 500 he could have figured he was too heavy..so

600?...........all the way to 1000 and NOW he figures it out??

he got that big because he CONCIOUSLY GAVE UP....

it was his CHOICE.

it was too big a hurdle to lose 300lbs, 400lbs, 500lbs...so he

just kept eating....i suppose its an easier hurdle to lose at a 1000?

anytime that you feel that its too hard to lose the 100lbs that you

(figuratively) have to lose, so youre going to eat.....ask yourself if

it will be easier to lose 100lbs or 101lbs.....'cause once you give up

and start eating, youre adding more....

dont get discouraged at the amount you have to lose, it could always

be worse..if you have 100lbs,,,thank G-d for it not being 200. be

grateful. positive thinking is more effective than we think it is.

you are what you think you are.

peace

anna

On 6/19/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

>

> Have any of you seen this show? It is on TLC. About extremely

> overweight people trying to loose their weight.

>

> I am dumb struck as to the many folks that are so overweight that

> they cannot get out of bed. One young man weighed in at 1,000 lbs

> before getting help. Had not been out of the bed in 7 years.

>

> Now my observation is.

> At the point this man (and the others like him) reached the point

> that they were bed ridden, someone else became responsible for not

> only maintaining their massive weight, but also increasing it. In

> the case of this fellow, it was his parents. For another, his wife.

>

> What I wonder is, why are these caretakers not in serious trouble for

> over feeding these people. I mean if the bed ridden folks were

> extremely underweight because they were not being fed, the caretakers

> would be arrested for neglect.

> It seems exemely abusive to keep feeding/bringing all the food to

> these poor overweight folks.

>

> I mean I know the overweight, bedridden people want the food, but if

> they wanted anything else harmful to them (like, maybe over dose of

> drugs or something) and the caretakers gave it to them, they would be

> held accountable for the damage that came from it.

>

> Bartenders can be held responsible for giving alcahol to people that

> have obviously had enough. I don't see how overfeeding someone to

> the point that they are about to die from it, any different.

>

> I told my family, that if they should ever get into such a shape and

> they think that I will keep bringing them the food that is keeping

> them in such an unhealthy state, that they can forget it.

> They will eat what I bring them, until they can get up and fix it

> themselves.(and take care of themselves).

> Sheesh.

> Sure would like to see them go on a raw food diet and the medical

> staff record the progress in every part of their body.

>

> Belinda

June 20, 2007

-

Anna Bishop

>a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

to alter our judgment in the same way.

Processed foods, as you found out last week, have chemicals in them that

make us think we're still hungry, though. You overcame that mostly because

you'd figured out what was going on, and where that hunger came from -

people who are on that sort of food all the time, aren't going to be that

self aware.

True though, that they choose to keep eating, but there's a whole lot more

going on. I started gaining insane amounts of weight when I was 19, even

though I was eating less than usual. It turned out to be a series of things

going wrong with my body, because what I thought was healthy food, isn't

really. When I was 23, the dietician and diabeties counselour at the

hospital had me on a diet that was supposed to control my blood sugars,

while nourishing my foetus - it did neither, really. His umbilical cord was

nearly as big as his arm, though he was 8lb born. When they put me on

insulin, I gained 50 kilos (110lb) in the remaining 15 weeks of my

pregnancy. Not because I ate more, I only ate what I was told to eat,

because I felt that I had to, for the baby's sake, but because my already

screwed up body was being more screwed up by chemicals I was told to inject

twice daily.

Yes, we all have choices, but we can only make the best choice we can with

the knowledge we have - which is why I'm always seeking more knowledge, and

why I feel that education is so important. So, yes the insanely overweight

people (1000lb is a ton, yes?) probably made some poor choices, no doubt

including a diet high in fat and sugar and processed foods; but their carers

made poor choices too, by continuing to serve the same foods. You wouldn't

bring a case of beer into the house of a recovering alcoholic, right? So

asking someone addicted to certain foods to choose not to eat those foods

that are right under their nose, without providing alternatives, is a bit

much.

Caron

June 20, 2007

if i weighed 1000lbs, which i wouldnt because when i hit 160 i STOP.

but if i did, and anyone, aaaaanyone brought me food,,,,it had better

be something to help me lose...i dont care how hungry i got....

thats what im talking about..........you look at yourself and say NO!

i will NOT gain another 100lbs! thats insane....! and i would starve

myself before doing it!

this man wasnt born 1000lbs and addicted! youre looking at it from

the finishing point...hes immobile and people bring him food...but

he started out mobile!

there was a time when he got up and got the food himself....THATS

the point where you stop....not 500lbs later....there is nothing even

remotely close to being " not his fault " here...nothing.

there was a time when the alcoholic picked up his first drink....

he either was a child, say 12, like my exhusband, and didnt know

what the effects would be, or he was 12 + a few days and CHOSE

to do it again despite the hangover!!

how many pounds would it take for you to say " i am waaay too

big, im not having anymore until i lose .....<pick a number>.. " ?

it could be just 5lbs that you choose to lose, then you can eat

freely for a day, and get back up to that setpoint,,,but you pick a

setpoint and stop there. otherwise, why arent you 1000lbs?

anna

On 6/19/07, Caron <carongroups wrote:

>

> -

> Anna Bishop

> >a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

> judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

> to alter our judgment in the same way.

>

> Processed foods, as you found out last week, have chemicals in them that

> make us think we're still hungry, though. You overcame that mostly because

> you'd figured out what was going on, and where that hunger came from -

> people who are on that sort of food all the time, aren't going to be that

> self aware.

>

> True though, that they choose to keep eating, but there's a whole lot more

> going on. I started gaining insane amounts of weight when I was 19, even

> though I was eating less than usual. It turned out to be a series of

> things

> going wrong with my body, because what I thought was healthy food, isn't

> really. When I was 23, the dietician and diabeties counselour at the

> hospital had me on a diet that was supposed to control my blood sugars,

> while nourishing my foetus - it did neither, really. His umbilical cord

> was

> nearly as big as his arm, though he was 8lb born. When they put me on

> insulin, I gained 50 kilos (110lb) in the remaining 15 weeks of my

> pregnancy. Not because I ate more, I only ate what I was told to eat,

> because I felt that I had to, for the baby's sake, but because my already

> screwed up body was being more screwed up by chemicals I was told to

> inject

> twice daily.

>

> Yes, we all have choices, but we can only make the best choice we can with

> the knowledge we have - which is why I'm always seeking more knowledge,

> and

> why I feel that education is so important. So, yes the insanely overweight

> people (1000lb is a ton, yes?) probably made some poor choices, no doubt

> including a diet high in fat and sugar and processed foods; but their

> carers

> made poor choices too, by continuing to serve the same foods. You wouldn't

> bring a case of beer into the house of a recovering alcoholic, right? So

> asking someone addicted to certain foods to choose not to eat those foods

> that are right under their nose, without providing alternatives, is a bit

> much.

>

> Caron

>

June 20, 2007

-

Anna Bishop

>thats what im talking about..........you look at yourself and say NO!

i will NOT gain another 100lbs! thats insane....! and i would starve

myself before doing it!

I set that limit at 65kg (about 145lb), but setting the limit, and not

eating, didn't help me lose weight, or stop me gaining. I was about 300lb

the day my labour was induced, and I've been struggling to lose it ever

since, without success.

>it could be just 5lbs that you choose to lose, then you can eat

freely for a day, and get back up to that setpoint,,,but you pick a

setpoint and stop there. otherwise, why arent you 1000lbs?

I'm not 1000lb because I don't have a diet of fatty or sugary foods (just

cooked meat and veges, which is healthy, as far as I've been taught), and

because I had a baby, and now a toddler to run around after.

Yes, the 1000lb guy made his choices, and no doubt they included poor

choices about which foods to eat. I see the other side though - I've tried

everything I know to lose weight, I've pushed myself to exercise, even

though it results in days or weeks of painful recovery time, because of

other health issues; I eat far less than the average person, not by choice

but because I just don't feel hungry and don't like how I feel (physically)

when I eat, and it's done me no good. I've pretty much done all but take

diet pills (which would affect my boy through my milk), and have surgery. I

have, at times, been at the point where I feel utterly hopeless, and

helpless - I gain weight, or at best can't lose it, no matter what I do or

don't do, or what I eat or don't eat, so why bother trying? Why not just sit

around eating the foods that taste good, it all has the same effect anyway!

I don't eat the fatty foods because they make me sick, and I keep moving

because my boy insists on it.

I've now chosen to try going raw, because it makes sense, and I've tried

everything else. It's a faint glimmer of light at the end of a very long,

gloomy tunnel, but I owe it to my boy to at least try. He deserves better

than having to go to his own mum's funeral before he reaches adulthood.

Caron

June 20, 2007

Anna,

I agree personal responsibility is very important however, when you have

someone who can't get the food themselves and you are taking them their meals I

feel you should only take them healthy things, then it is their choice to eat or

starve. I personally couldn't feel good about myself by contributing in that

way.

As far as bartenders go, I know one personally. And one, everyone handles

alcohol differently and you have no idea how much someone has had to drink when

they come in. Not everyone who is intoxicated is falling down drunk. Second

people can become very violent when you try to cut them off and call them a cab.

Anna Bishop <mowthpeece wrote:

you dont blame the feeders because unless theyr putting a gun

to the eaters head, it is the eater that is choosing to eat.

a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

to alter our judgment in the same way. the twinkie defense

failed, remember?

i should warn you all, if you havent figured it out, that i am very

big on personal responsibility. the buck stops here.

stop blaming other people for what we do to ourselves.

conciously or unconciously this person got here by his mouth.

he could have chosen at any time to stop eating, chewing, and

swallowing.

to blame the family is to take all responsibility away from him.

so when he loses the weight, is he going to avoid his family

because they may expose him to food again? huh??

hes going to have to control HIMSELF. food is everywhere!

i feel for him, my heart breaks at stories like this, but if IIII can

stop eating at a particular weight, others can too.

was 300lbs not enough to stop? how bout 400?...surely when

he reached 500 he could have figured he was too heavy..so

600?...........all the way to 1000 and NOW he figures it out??

he got that big because he CONCIOUSLY GAVE UP....

it was his CHOICE.

it was too big a hurdle to lose 300lbs, 400lbs, 500lbs...so he

just kept eating....i suppose its an easier hurdle to lose at a 1000?

anytime that you feel that its too hard to lose the 100lbs that you

(figuratively) have to lose, so youre going to eat.....ask yourself if

it will be easier to lose 100lbs or 101lbs.....'cause once you give up

and start eating, youre adding more....

dont get discouraged at the amount you have to lose, it could always

be worse..if you have 100lbs,,,thank G-d for it not being 200. be

grateful. positive thinking is more effective than we think it is.

you are what you think you are.

peace

anna

On 6/19/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

>

> Have any of you seen this show? It is on TLC. About extremely

> overweight people trying to loose their weight.

>

> I am dumb struck as to the many folks that are so overweight that

> they cannot get out of bed. One young man weighed in at 1,000 lbs

> before getting help. Had not been out of the bed in 7 years.

>

> Now my observation is.

> At the point this man (and the others like him) reached the point

> that they were bed ridden, someone else became responsible for not

> only maintaining their massive weight, but also increasing it. In

> the case of this fellow, it was his parents. For another, his wife.

>

> What I wonder is, why are these caretakers not in serious trouble for

> over feeding these people. I mean if the bed ridden folks were

> extremely underweight because they were not being fed, the caretakers

> would be arrested for neglect.

> It seems exemely abusive to keep feeding/bringing all the food to

> these poor overweight folks.

>

> I mean I know the overweight, bedridden people want the food, but if

> they wanted anything else harmful to them (like, maybe over dose of

> drugs or something) and the caretakers gave it to them, they would be

> held accountable for the damage that came from it.

>

> Bartenders can be held responsible for giving alcahol to people that

> have obviously had enough. I don't see how overfeeding someone to

> the point that they are about to die from it, any different.

>

> I told my family, that if they should ever get into such a shape and

> they think that I will keep bringing them the food that is keeping

> them in such an unhealthy state, that they can forget it.

> They will eat what I bring them, until they can get up and fix it

> themselves.(and take care of themselves).

> Sheesh.

> Sure would like to see them go on a raw food diet and the medical

> staff record the progress in every part of their body.

>

> Belinda

June 20, 2007

No one is about self responsiblity more than I.

I agree. These folks fed themselves to the point of being extremely

overweight. But once they are bed ridden, they cannot get their own

food anymore. Someone must bring it to them. I cannot imagine

someone that loves the bedridden person, to continue to help him/her

harm themselves. I mean if a person is a severe diabetic (and

bedridden) and the person caring for them brings them sugar to eat,

knowing that it is killing them, they are partially responsible for

that persons condition and whatever happens to them.

If a depressed person wants to overdose on drugs and someone brings

them the drugs so that they can overdose on them. Are they not

somewhat responsible for their death? Even though they did not force

the depressed person to swallow them?

Dr. Kovorkian spent years in prison, just for this. He never killed

anyone himself, he just provided them with the means to kill

themselves.

I think feeding dangerously overweight people the very thing that is

killing them, is the same. Anyone that is that overweight has some

severe psychological and emotional problems, that need to be

addressed.

Just the same as an anorexic person. Do we help an anorexic or

bulemic person continue their self distruction and not hold some

responsiblitly for it.

Do we say, " it was my daughters decision to starve herself to death

and I just wanted to support her decision. After all it is her life

and her body "

Each to their own I guess, but I could never help anyone, and

certainly not my loved ones, do the very thing that is killing them

AND making them disabled to the point that I have to take care of

them. I cant' control what they can do on their own, but once they

are dependent on me to help them continue their self destruction. It

WILL come to a stop. I assure you.

How in the world do you roll 1,000 lbs of person over to clean

him/her up.

Belinda

rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece wrote:

>

> you dont blame the feeders because unless theyr putting a gun

> to the eaters head, it is the eater that is choosing to eat.

>

> a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

> judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

> to alter our judgment in the same way. the twinkie defense

> failed, remember?

>

> i should warn you all, if you havent figured it out, that i am very

> big on personal responsibility. the buck stops here.

>

> stop blaming other people for what we do to ourselves.

>

> conciously or unconciously this person got here by his mouth.

> he could have chosen at any time to stop eating, chewing, and

> swallowing.

>

> to blame the family is to take all responsibility away from him.

>

> so when he loses the weight, is he going to avoid his family

> because they may expose him to food again? huh??

> hes going to have to control HIMSELF. food is everywhere!

>

> i feel for him, my heart breaks at stories like this, but if IIII

can

> stop eating at a particular weight, others can too.

>

> was 300lbs not enough to stop? how bout 400?...surely when

> he reached 500 he could have figured he was too heavy..so

> 600?...........all the way to 1000 and NOW he figures it out??

>

> he got that big because he CONCIOUSLY GAVE UP....

> it was his CHOICE.

> it was too big a hurdle to lose 300lbs, 400lbs, 500lbs...so he

> just kept eating....i suppose its an easier hurdle to lose at a

1000?

>

> anytime that you feel that its too hard to lose the 100lbs that you

> (figuratively) have to lose, so youre going to eat.....ask yourself

if

> it will be easier to lose 100lbs or 101lbs.....'cause once you give

up

> and start eating, youre adding more....

>

> dont get discouraged at the amount you have to lose, it could always

> be worse..if you have 100lbs,,,thank G-d for it not being 200. be

> grateful. positive thinking is more effective than we think it is.

>

> you are what you think you are.

>

> peace

> anna

>

> On 6/19/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> >

> > Have any of you seen this show? It is on TLC. About extremely

> > overweight people trying to loose their weight.

> >

> > I am dumb struck as to the many folks that are so overweight that

> > they cannot get out of bed. One young man weighed in at 1,000 lbs

> > before getting help. Had not been out of the bed in 7 years.

> >

> > Now my observation is.

> > At the point this man (and the others like him) reached the point

> > that they were bed ridden, someone else became responsible for not

> > only maintaining their massive weight, but also increasing it. In

> > the case of this fellow, it was his parents. For another, his

wife.

> >

> > What I wonder is, why are these caretakers not in serious trouble

for

> > over feeding these people. I mean if the bed ridden folks were

> > extremely underweight because they were not being fed, the

caretakers

> > would be arrested for neglect.

> > It seems exemely abusive to keep feeding/bringing all the food to

> > these poor overweight folks.

> >

> > I mean I know the overweight, bedridden people want the food, but

if

> > they wanted anything else harmful to them (like, maybe over dose

of

> > drugs or something) and the caretakers gave it to them, they

would be

> > held accountable for the damage that came from it.

> >

> > Bartenders can be held responsible for giving alcahol to people

that

> > have obviously had enough. I don't see how overfeeding someone to

> > the point that they are about to die from it, any different.

> >

> > I told my family, that if they should ever get into such a shape

and

> > they think that I will keep bringing them the food that is keeping

> > them in such an unhealthy state, that they can forget it.

> > They will eat what I bring them, until they can get up and fix it

> > themselves.(and take care of themselves).

> > Sheesh.

> > Sure would like to see them go on a raw food diet and the medical

> > staff record the progress in every part of their body.

> >

> > Belinda

> >

June 20, 2007

exactly!

you dont let yourself eat that kind of stuff...

even at 300 you recognize that its better than 400!

you could give up and eat....but then youd have to lose that ON TOP of

the 300...

this is what im saying...there is a point when someone has to draw

that line....and imho..it is NOT 1000! Thats outrageous!....

why not 900?...hes drawing it now.....why now?

what changed with his feeders that hes complaining now but not at 900?

i feel very sorry for him...but blaming the feeders just makes me kook!

thx

anna

On 6/19/07, Caron <carongroups wrote:

>

> -

> Anna Bishop

> >thats what im talking about..........you look at yourself and say NO!

> i will NOT gain another 100lbs! thats insane....! and i would starve

> myself before doing it!

>

> I set that limit at 65kg (about 145lb), but setting the limit, and not

> eating, didn't help me lose weight, or stop me gaining. I was about 300lb

> the day my labour was induced, and I've been struggling to lose it ever

> since, without success.

>

> >it could be just 5lbs that you choose to lose, then you can eat

> freely for a day, and get back up to that setpoint,,,but you pick a

> setpoint and stop there. otherwise, why arent you 1000lbs?

>

> I'm not 1000lb because I don't have a diet of fatty or sugary foods (just

> cooked meat and veges, which is healthy, as far as I've been taught), and

> because I had a baby, and now a toddler to run around after.

>

> Yes, the 1000lb guy made his choices, and no doubt they included poor

> choices about which foods to eat. I see the other side though - I've tried

> everything I know to lose weight, I've pushed myself to exercise, even

> though it results in days or weeks of painful recovery time, because of

> other health issues; I eat far less than the average person, not by choice

> but because I just don't feel hungry and don't like how I feel (physically)

> when I eat, and it's done me no good. I've pretty much done all but take

> diet pills (which would affect my boy through my milk), and have surgery. I

> have, at times, been at the point where I feel utterly hopeless, and

> helpless - I gain weight, or at best can't lose it, no matter what I do or

> don't do, or what I eat or don't eat, so why bother trying? Why not just sit

> around eating the foods that taste good, it all has the same effect anyway!

> I don't eat the fatty foods because they make me sick, and I keep moving

> because my boy insists on it.

>

> I've now chosen to try going raw, because it makes sense, and I've tried

> everything else. It's a faint glimmer of light at the end of a very long,

> gloomy tunnel, but I owe it to my boy to at least try. He deserves better

> than having to go to his own mum's funeral before he reaches adulthood.

>

> Caron

>

June 20, 2007

i get the alcohol thing...this is different.

yes feeders have a responsibility...but unless he had a gun to his

head he could refuse any junk.

for example..im 1000 and very hungry...i hate being 1000 but there i am....

you bring me a meal of 1000 calories.....

if i wanted to stop gaining...id eat only half...i control my mouth!

id save the other half for 3hrs later....if theyre bringing me bad

food or too much food...i can STILL decide what goes in my mouth..

and for me...that point is 160.

why is it 1000 for him?

On 6/20/07, Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully wrote:

> Anna,

>

> I agree personal responsibility is very important however, when you have

> someone who can't get the food themselves and you are taking them their

> meals I feel you should only take them healthy things, then it is their

> choice to eat or starve. I personally couldn't feel good about myself by

> contributing in that way.

>

> As far as bartenders go, I know one personally. And one, everyone handles

> alcohol differently and you have no idea how much someone has had to drink

> when they come in. Not everyone who is intoxicated is falling down drunk.

> Second people can become very violent when you try to cut them off and call

> them a cab.

>

> Anna Bishop <mowthpeece wrote:

> you dont blame the feeders because unless theyr putting a gun

> to the eaters head, it is the eater that is choosing to eat.

>

> a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

> judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

> to alter our judgment in the same way. the twinkie defense

> failed, remember?

>

> i should warn you all, if you havent figured it out, that i am very

> big on personal responsibility. the buck stops here.

>

> stop blaming other people for what we do to ourselves.

>

> conciously or unconciously this person got here by his mouth.

> he could have chosen at any time to stop eating, chewing, and

> swallowing.

>

> to blame the family is to take all responsibility away from him.

>

> so when he loses the weight, is he going to avoid his family

> because they may expose him to food again? huh??

> hes going to have to control HIMSELF. food is everywhere!

>

> i feel for him, my heart breaks at stories like this, but if IIII can

> stop eating at a particular weight, others can too.

>

> was 300lbs not enough to stop? how bout 400?...surely when

> he reached 500 he could have figured he was too heavy..so

> 600?...........all the way to 1000 and NOW he figures it out??

>

> he got that big because he CONCIOUSLY GAVE UP....

> it was his CHOICE.

> it was too big a hurdle to lose 300lbs, 400lbs, 500lbs...so he

> just kept eating....i suppose its an easier hurdle to lose at a 1000?

>

> anytime that you feel that its too hard to lose the 100lbs that you

> (figuratively) have to lose, so youre going to eat.....ask yourself if

> it will be easier to lose 100lbs or 101lbs.....'cause once you give up

> and start eating, youre adding more....

>

> dont get discouraged at the amount you have to lose, it could always

> be worse..if you have 100lbs,,,thank G-d for it not being 200. be

> grateful. positive thinking is more effective than we think it is.

>

> you are what you think you are.

>

> peace

> anna

>

> On 6/19/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> >

> > Have any of you seen this show? It is on TLC. About extremely

> > overweight people trying to loose their weight.

> >

> > I am dumb struck as to the many folks that are so overweight that

> > they cannot get out of bed. One young man weighed in at 1,000 lbs

> > before getting help. Had not been out of the bed in 7 years.

> >

> > Now my observation is.

> > At the point this man (and the others like him) reached the point

> > that they were bed ridden, someone else became responsible for not

> > only maintaining their massive weight, but also increasing it. In

> > the case of this fellow, it was his parents. For another, his wife.

> >

> > What I wonder is, why are these caretakers not in serious trouble for

> > over feeding these people. I mean if the bed ridden folks were

> > extremely underweight because they were not being fed, the caretakers

> > would be arrested for neglect.

> > It seems exemely abusive to keep feeding/bringing all the food to

> > these poor overweight folks.

> >

> > I mean I know the overweight, bedridden people want the food, but if

> > they wanted anything else harmful to them (like, maybe over dose of

> > drugs or something) and the caretakers gave it to them, they would be

> > held accountable for the damage that came from it.

> >

> > Bartenders can be held responsible for giving alcahol to people that

> > have obviously had enough. I don't see how overfeeding someone to

> > the point that they are about to die from it, any different.

> >

> > I told my family, that if they should ever get into such a shape and

> > they think that I will keep bringing them the food that is keeping

> > them in such an unhealthy state, that they can forget it.

> > They will eat what I bring them, until they can get up and fix it

> > themselves.(and take care of themselves).

> > Sheesh.

> > Sure would like to see them go on a raw food diet and the medical

> > staff record the progress in every part of their body.

> >

> > Belinda

> >

June 20, 2007

With a crane.

if this guy was under medical care...in the custody of trained

diaticians and THEY mis-fed him..they face civil liability for feeding

him because he has reason to TRUST the food is healthy. Assuming its

not obviously unhealthy, like greasy fast food.

putting drugs near a despondent suicidal person is murder II. Theres case law.

kevorkian did time because assisted suicide IS A CRIME in the state in question.

if this guy had psych problems so he couldnt stop eating...then why is

he deciding at 1000lbs that hes had enough?

anna

On 6/20/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> No one is about self responsiblity more than I.

> I agree. These folks fed themselves to the point of being extremely

> overweight. But once they are bed ridden, they cannot get their own

> food anymore. Someone must bring it to them. I cannot imagine

> someone that loves the bedridden person, to continue to help him/her

> harm themselves. I mean if a person is a severe diabetic (and

> bedridden) and the person caring for them brings them sugar to eat,

> knowing that it is killing them, they are partially responsible for

> that persons condition and whatever happens to them.

>

> If a depressed person wants to overdose on drugs and someone brings

> them the drugs so that they can overdose on them. Are they not

> somewhat responsible for their death? Even though they did not force

> the depressed person to swallow them?

> Dr. Kovorkian spent years in prison, just for this. He never killed

> anyone himself, he just provided them with the means to kill

> themselves.

>

> I think feeding dangerously overweight people the very thing that is

> killing them, is the same. Anyone that is that overweight has some

> severe psychological and emotional problems, that need to be

> addressed.

> Just the same as an anorexic person. Do we help an anorexic or

> bulemic person continue their self distruction and not hold some

> responsiblitly for it.

> Do we say, " it was my daughters decision to starve herself to death

> and I just wanted to support her decision. After all it is her life

> and her body "

>

> Each to their own I guess, but I could never help anyone, and

> certainly not my loved ones, do the very thing that is killing them

> AND making them disabled to the point that I have to take care of

> them. I cant' control what they can do on their own, but once they

> are dependent on me to help them continue their self destruction. It

> WILL come to a stop. I assure you.

>

> How in the world do you roll 1,000 lbs of person over to clean

> him/her up.

>

> Belinda

>

> rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece wrote:

> >

> > you dont blame the feeders because unless theyr putting a gun

> > to the eaters head, it is the eater that is choosing to eat.

> >

> > a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

> > judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

> > to alter our judgment in the same way. the twinkie defense

> > failed, remember?

> >

> > i should warn you all, if you havent figured it out, that i am very

> > big on personal responsibility. the buck stops here.

> >

> > stop blaming other people for what we do to ourselves.

> >

> > conciously or unconciously this person got here by his mouth.

> > he could have chosen at any time to stop eating, chewing, and

> > swallowing.

> >

> > to blame the family is to take all responsibility away from him.

> >

> > so when he loses the weight, is he going to avoid his family

> > because they may expose him to food again? huh??

> > hes going to have to control HIMSELF. food is everywhere!

> >

> > i feel for him, my heart breaks at stories like this, but if IIII

> can

> > stop eating at a particular weight, others can too.

> >

> > was 300lbs not enough to stop? how bout 400?...surely when

> > he reached 500 he could have figured he was too heavy..so

> > 600?...........all the way to 1000 and NOW he figures it out??

> >

> > he got that big because he CONCIOUSLY GAVE UP....

> > it was his CHOICE.

> > it was too big a hurdle to lose 300lbs, 400lbs, 500lbs...so he

> > just kept eating....i suppose its an easier hurdle to lose at a

> 1000?

> >

> > anytime that you feel that its too hard to lose the 100lbs that you

> > (figuratively) have to lose, so youre going to eat.....ask yourself

> if

> > it will be easier to lose 100lbs or 101lbs.....'cause once you give

> up

> > and start eating, youre adding more....

> >

> > dont get discouraged at the amount you have to lose, it could always

> > be worse..if you have 100lbs,,,thank G-d for it not being 200. be

> > grateful. positive thinking is more effective than we think it is.

> >

> > you are what you think you are.

> >

> > peace

> > anna

> >

> > On 6/19/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> > >

> > > Have any of you seen this show? It is on TLC. About extremely

> > > overweight people trying to loose their weight.

> > >

> > > I am dumb struck as to the many folks that are so overweight that

> > > they cannot get out of bed. One young man weighed in at 1,000 lbs

> > > before getting help. Had not been out of the bed in 7 years.

> > >

> > > Now my observation is.

> > > At the point this man (and the others like him) reached the point

> > > that they were bed ridden, someone else became responsible for not

> > > only maintaining their massive weight, but also increasing it. In

> > > the case of this fellow, it was his parents. For another, his

> wife.

> > >

> > > What I wonder is, why are these caretakers not in serious trouble

> for

> > > over feeding these people. I mean if the bed ridden folks were

> > > extremely underweight because they were not being fed, the

> caretakers

> > > would be arrested for neglect.

> > > It seems exemely abusive to keep feeding/bringing all the food to

> > > these poor overweight folks.

> > >

> > > I mean I know the overweight, bedridden people want the food, but

> if

> > > they wanted anything else harmful to them (like, maybe over dose

> of

> > > drugs or something) and the caretakers gave it to them, they

> would be

> > > held accountable for the damage that came from it.

> > >

> > > Bartenders can be held responsible for giving alcahol to people

> that

> > > have obviously had enough. I don't see how overfeeding someone to

> > > the point that they are about to die from it, any different.

> > >

> > > I told my family, that if they should ever get into such a shape

> and

> > > they think that I will keep bringing them the food that is keeping

> > > them in such an unhealthy state, that they can forget it.

> > > They will eat what I bring them, until they can get up and fix it

> > > themselves.(and take care of themselves).

> > > Sheesh.

> > > Sure would like to see them go on a raw food diet and the medical

> > > staff record the progress in every part of their body.

> > >

> > > Belinda

> > >

June 20, 2007

So you wouldn't consider this case as a form of unassisted suicide?

Because it sure comes close to it...

Anna Bishop wrote:

>

> exactly!

>

> you dont let yourself eat that kind of stuff...

>

> even at 300 you recognize that its better than 400!

>

> you could give up and eat....but then youd have to lose that ON TOP of

> the 300...

>

> this is what im saying...there is a point when someone has to draw

> that line....and imho..it is NOT 1000! Thats outrageous!....

>

> why not 900?...hes drawing it now.....why now?

> what changed with his feeders that hes complaining now but not at 900?

>

> i feel very sorry for him...but blaming the feeders just makes me kook!

>

> thx

> anna

>

> On 6/19/07, Caron <carongroups

> <carongroups%40bearberi.com.au>> wrote:

> >

> > -

> > Anna Bishop

> > >thats what im talking about..........you look at yourself and say NO!

> > i will NOT gain another 100lbs! thats insane....! and i would starve

> > myself before doing it!

> >

> > I set that limit at 65kg (about 145lb), but setting the limit, and not

> > eating, didn't help me lose weight, or stop me gaining. I was about

> 300lb

> > the day my labour was induced, and I've been struggling to lose it ever

> > since, without success.

> >

> > >it could be just 5lbs that you choose to lose, then you can eat

> > freely for a day, and get back up to that setpoint,,,but you pick a

> > setpoint and stop there. otherwise, why arent you 1000lbs?

> >

> > I'm not 1000lb because I don't have a diet of fatty or sugary foods

> (just

> > cooked meat and veges, which is healthy, as far as I've been

> taught), and

> > because I had a baby, and now a toddler to run around after.

> >

> > Yes, the 1000lb guy made his choices, and no doubt they included poor

> > choices about which foods to eat. I see the other side though - I've

> tried

> > everything I know to lose weight, I've pushed myself to exercise, even

> > though it results in days or weeks of painful recovery time, because of

> > other health issues; I eat far less than the average person, not by

> choice

> > but because I just don't feel hungry and don't like how I feel

> (physically)

> > when I eat, and it's done me no good. I've pretty much done all but take

> > diet pills (which would affect my boy through my milk), and have

> surgery. I

> > have, at times, been at the point where I feel utterly hopeless, and

> > helpless - I gain weight, or at best can't lose it, no matter what I

> do or

> > don't do, or what I eat or don't eat, so why bother trying? Why not

> just sit

> > around eating the foods that taste good, it all has the same effect

> anyway!

> > I don't eat the fatty foods because they make me sick, and I keep moving

> > because my boy insists on it.

> >

> > I've now chosen to try going raw, because it makes sense, and I've tried

> > everything else. It's a faint glimmer of light at the end of a very

> long,

> > gloomy tunnel, but I owe it to my boy to at least try. He deserves

> better

> > than having to go to his own mum's funeral before he reaches adulthood.

> >

> > Caron

> >

June 20, 2007

Well, it looks like to me that anyone that continually feeds someone

that is 800, 900, 1000 lbs etc. is assisting in their death. Murder,

suicide, whatever. The person bringing the overweight person their

food is assisisting in their death.

Just like I think that parents that allow their children to over eat

to the point of morbid obesity, is abusing them.

There is a toddler at our church. He is 3 years old and weighs 55lbs

or so. Now in my oppinion this child is being abused or neglected.

Whatever you want to call it. They feed him like he was a fattening

hog.

And they do it because they love him and he wants to eat like that.

His family does not even consider him fat. Just a big boy. Never

mind this toddler has big enough boobs to fill a B cup bra. (hmmm,

self analysis. I think that I may be jealous of the boob thing.))

Belinda

-- In rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece wrote:

>

> With a crane.

>

> if this guy was under medical care...in the custody of trained

> diaticians and THEY mis-fed him..they face civil liability for

feeding

> him because he has reason to TRUST the food is healthy. Assuming its

> not obviously unhealthy, like greasy fast food.

>

> putting drugs near a despondent suicidal person is murder II.

Theres case law.

>

> kevorkian did time because assisted suicide IS A CRIME in the state

in question.

>

> if this guy had psych problems so he couldnt stop eating...then why

is

> he deciding at 1000lbs that hes had enough?

>

> anna

>

> On 6/20/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> > No one is about self responsiblity more than I.

> > I agree. These folks fed themselves to the point of being

extremely

> > overweight. But once they are bed ridden, they cannot get their

own

> > food anymore. Someone must bring it to them. I cannot imagine

> > someone that loves the bedridden person, to continue to help

him/her

> > harm themselves. I mean if a person is a severe diabetic (and

> > bedridden) and the person caring for them brings them sugar to

eat,

> > knowing that it is killing them, they are partially responsible

for

> > that persons condition and whatever happens to them.

> >

> > If a depressed person wants to overdose on drugs and someone

brings

> > them the drugs so that they can overdose on them. Are they not

> > somewhat responsible for their death? Even though they did not

force

> > the depressed person to swallow them?

> > Dr. Kovorkian spent years in prison, just for this. He never

killed

> > anyone himself, he just provided them with the means to kill

> > themselves.

> >

> > I think feeding dangerously overweight people the very thing that

is

> > killing them, is the same. Anyone that is that overweight has

some

> > severe psychological and emotional problems, that need to be

> > addressed.

> > Just the same as an anorexic person. Do we help an anorexic or

> > bulemic person continue their self distruction and not hold some

> > responsiblitly for it.

> > Do we say, " it was my daughters decision to starve herself to

death

> > and I just wanted to support her decision. After all it is her

life

> > and her body "

> >

> > Each to their own I guess, but I could never help anyone, and

> > certainly not my loved ones, do the very thing that is killing

them

> > AND making them disabled to the point that I have to take care of

> > them. I cant' control what they can do on their own, but once

they

> > are dependent on me to help them continue their self

destruction. It

> > WILL come to a stop. I assure you.

> >

> > How in the world do you roll 1,000 lbs of person over to clean

> > him/her up.

> >

> > Belinda

> >

> > rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece@> wrote:

> > >

> > > you dont blame the feeders because unless theyr putting a gun

> > > to the eaters head, it is the eater that is choosing to eat.

> > >

> > > a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

> > > judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

> > > to alter our judgment in the same way. the twinkie defense

> > > failed, remember?

> > >

> > > i should warn you all, if you havent figured it out, that i am

very

> > > big on personal responsibility. the buck stops here.

> > >

> > > stop blaming other people for what we do to ourselves.

> > >

> > > conciously or unconciously this person got here by his mouth.

> > > he could have chosen at any time to stop eating, chewing, and

> > > swallowing.

> > >

> > > to blame the family is to take all responsibility away from him.

> > >

> > > so when he loses the weight, is he going to avoid his family

> > > because they may expose him to food again? huh??

> > > hes going to have to control HIMSELF. food is everywhere!

> > >

> > > i feel for him, my heart breaks at stories like this, but if

IIII

> > can

> > > stop eating at a particular weight, others can too.

> > >

> > > was 300lbs not enough to stop? how bout 400?...surely when

> > > he reached 500 he could have figured he was too heavy..so

> > > 600?...........all the way to 1000 and NOW he figures it out??

> > >

> > > he got that big because he CONCIOUSLY GAVE UP....

> > > it was his CHOICE.

> > > it was too big a hurdle to lose 300lbs, 400lbs, 500lbs...so he

> > > just kept eating....i suppose its an easier hurdle to lose at a

> > 1000?

> > >

> > > anytime that you feel that its too hard to lose the 100lbs that

you

> > > (figuratively) have to lose, so youre going to eat.....ask

yourself

> > if

> > > it will be easier to lose 100lbs or 101lbs.....'cause once you

give

> > up

> > > and start eating, youre adding more....

> > >

> > > dont get discouraged at the amount you have to lose, it could

always

> > > be worse..if you have 100lbs,,,thank G-d for it not being 200.

be

> > > grateful. positive thinking is more effective than we think it

is.

> > >

> > > you are what you think you are.

> > >

> > > peace

> > > anna

> > >

> > > On 6/19/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > Have any of you seen this show? It is on TLC. About

extremely

> > > > overweight people trying to loose their weight.

> > > >

> > > > I am dumb struck as to the many folks that are so overweight

that

> > > > they cannot get out of bed. One young man weighed in at

1,000 lbs

> > > > before getting help. Had not been out of the bed in 7 years.

> > > >

> > > > Now my observation is.

> > > > At the point this man (and the others like him) reached the

point

> > > > that they were bed ridden, someone else became responsible

for not

> > > > only maintaining their massive weight, but also increasing

it. In

> > > > the case of this fellow, it was his parents. For another, his

> > wife.

> > > >

> > > > What I wonder is, why are these caretakers not in serious

trouble

> > for

> > > > over feeding these people. I mean if the bed ridden folks

were

> > > > extremely underweight because they were not being fed, the

> > caretakers

> > > > would be arrested for neglect.

> > > > It seems exemely abusive to keep feeding/bringing all the

food to

> > > > these poor overweight folks.

> > > >

> > > > I mean I know the overweight, bedridden people want the food,

but

> > if

> > > > they wanted anything else harmful to them (like, maybe over

dose

> > of

> > > > drugs or something) and the caretakers gave it to them, they

> > would be

> > > > held accountable for the damage that came from it.

> > > >

> > > > Bartenders can be held responsible for giving alcahol to

people

> > that

> > > > have obviously had enough. I don't see how overfeeding

someone to

> > > > the point that they are about to die from it, any different.

> > > >

> > > > I told my family, that if they should ever get into such a

shape

> > and

> > > > they think that I will keep bringing them the food that is

keeping

> > > > them in such an unhealthy state, that they can forget it.

> > > > They will eat what I bring them, until they can get up and

fix it

> > > > themselves.(and take care of themselves).

> > > > Sheesh.

> > > > Sure would like to see them go on a raw food diet and the

medical

> > > > staff record the progress in every part of their body.

> > > >

> > > > Belinda

> > > >

June 20, 2007

does the eater have any responsibility in your world?..if not..then i

want to live with you!!

a child doesnt KNOW about dieting or the dangers of overeating...you

cant use them for comparison.

an adult male that continues to open his mouth and put food into it

can blame no one but himself for weighing 1000lbs.

just as he stopped at 1000 he COULD HAVE CHOSEN to stop at 300. You

are ignoring the fact that he is CHOOSING NOW to stop.

if hes sssoooooo under the control of other people HOW COME HE CAN

SPEAK UP NNNOOWW???

because Nobody is forcing him! He is NOT at their mercy!..open your

eyes beautiful smart raw foodists! Just as hes saying ENOUGH at

1000...when he is MOST DEPENDENT..he could have said enough before

when HE WASNT DEPENDENT...he just WOULDNT.

does nooo one else see this??

just my opinion. You dont have to agree...but please tell me that at

least you see the logic in that he could have stopped himself at 300.

do you at least see that??

peace

anna

On 6/20/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> Well, it looks like to me that anyone that continually feeds someone

> that is 800, 900, 1000 lbs etc. is assisting in their death. Murder,

> suicide, whatever. The person bringing the overweight person their

> food is assisisting in their death.

>

> Just like I think that parents that allow their children to over eat

> to the point of morbid obesity, is abusing them.

>

> There is a toddler at our church. He is 3 years old and weighs 55lbs

> or so. Now in my oppinion this child is being abused or neglected.

> Whatever you want to call it. They feed him like he was a fattening

> hog.

> And they do it because they love him and he wants to eat like that.

> His family does not even consider him fat. Just a big boy. Never

> mind this toddler has big enough boobs to fill a B cup bra. (hmmm,

> self analysis. I think that I may be jealous of the boob thing.))

>

> Belinda

>

> -- In rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece wrote:

> >

> > With a crane.

> >

> > if this guy was under medical care...in the custody of trained

> > diaticians and THEY mis-fed him..they face civil liability for

> feeding

> > him because he has reason to TRUST the food is healthy. Assuming its

> > not obviously unhealthy, like greasy fast food.

> >

> > putting drugs near a despondent suicidal person is murder II.

> Theres case law.

> >

> > kevorkian did time because assisted suicide IS A CRIME in the state

> in question.

> >

> > if this guy had psych problems so he couldnt stop eating...then why

> is

> > he deciding at 1000lbs that hes had enough?

> >

> > anna

> >

> > On 6/20/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> > > No one is about self responsiblity more than I.

> > > I agree. These folks fed themselves to the point of being

> extremely

> > > overweight. But once they are bed ridden, they cannot get their

> own

> > > food anymore. Someone must bring it to them. I cannot imagine

> > > someone that loves the bedridden person, to continue to help

> him/her

> > > harm themselves. I mean if a person is a severe diabetic (and

> > > bedridden) and the person caring for them brings them sugar to

> eat,

> > > knowing that it is killing them, they are partially responsible

> for

> > > that persons condition and whatever happens to them.

> > >

> > > If a depressed person wants to overdose on drugs and someone

> brings

> > > them the drugs so that they can overdose on them. Are they not

> > > somewhat responsible for their death? Even though they did not

> force

> > > the depressed person to swallow them?

> > > Dr. Kovorkian spent years in prison, just for this. He never

> killed

> > > anyone himself, he just provided them with the means to kill

> > > themselves.

> > >

> > > I think feeding dangerously overweight people the very thing that

> is

> > > killing them, is the same. Anyone that is that overweight has

> some

> > > severe psychological and emotional problems, that need to be

> > > addressed.

> > > Just the same as an anorexic person. Do we help an anorexic or

> > > bulemic person continue their self distruction and not hold some

> > > responsiblitly for it.

> > > Do we say, " it was my daughters decision to starve herself to

> death

> > > and I just wanted to support her decision. After all it is her

> life

> > > and her body "

> > >

> > > Each to their own I guess, but I could never help anyone, and

> > > certainly not my loved ones, do the very thing that is killing

> them

> > > AND making them disabled to the point that I have to take care of

> > > them. I cant' control what they can do on their own, but once

> they

> > > are dependent on me to help them continue their self

> destruction. It

> > > WILL come to a stop. I assure you.

> > >

> > > How in the world do you roll 1,000 lbs of person over to clean

> > > him/her up.

> > >

> > > Belinda

> > >

> > > rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > you dont blame the feeders because unless theyr putting a gun

> > > > to the eaters head, it is the eater that is choosing to eat.

> > > >

> > > > a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

> > > > judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

> > > > to alter our judgment in the same way. the twinkie defense

> > > > failed, remember?

> > > >

> > > > i should warn you all, if you havent figured it out, that i am

> very

> > > > big on personal responsibility. the buck stops here.

> > > >

> > > > stop blaming other people for what we do to ourselves.

> > > >

> > > > conciously or unconciously this person got here by his mouth.

> > > > he could have chosen at any time to stop eating, chewing, and

> > > > swallowing.

> > > >

> > > > to blame the family is to take all responsibility away from him.

> > > >

> > > > so when he loses the weight, is he going to avoid his family

> > > > because they may expose him to food again? huh??

> > > > hes going to have to control HIMSELF. food is everywhere!

> > > >

> > > > i feel for him, my heart breaks at stories like this, but if

> IIII

> > > can

> > > > stop eating at a particular weight, others can too.

> > > >

> > > > was 300lbs not enough to stop? how bout 400?...surely when

> > > > he reached 500 he could have figured he was too heavy..so

> > > > 600?...........all the way to 1000 and NOW he figures it out??

> > > >

> > > > he got that big because he CONCIOUSLY GAVE UP....

> > > > it was his CHOICE.

> > > > it was too big a hurdle to lose 300lbs, 400lbs, 500lbs...so he

> > > > just kept eating....i suppose its an easier hurdle to lose at a

> > > 1000?

> > > >

> > > > anytime that you feel that its too hard to lose the 100lbs that

> you

> > > > (figuratively) have to lose, so youre going to eat.....ask

> yourself

> > > if

> > > > it will be easier to lose 100lbs or 101lbs.....'cause once you

> give

> > > up

> > > > and start eating, youre adding more....

> > > >

> > > > dont get discouraged at the amount you have to lose, it could

> always

> > > > be worse..if you have 100lbs,,,thank G-d for it not being 200.

> be

> > > > grateful. positive thinking is more effective than we think it

> is.

> > > >

> > > > you are what you think you are.

> > > >

> > > > peace

> > > > anna

> > > >

> > > > On 6/19/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Have any of you seen this show? It is on TLC. About

> extremely

> > > > > overweight people trying to loose their weight.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am dumb struck as to the many folks that are so overweight

> that

> > > > > they cannot get out of bed. One young man weighed in at

> 1,000 lbs

> > > > > before getting help. Had not been out of the bed in 7 years.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now my observation is.

> > > > > At the point this man (and the others like him) reached the

> point

> > > > > that they were bed ridden, someone else became responsible

> for not

> > > > > only maintaining their massive weight, but also increasing

> it. In

> > > > > the case of this fellow, it was his parents. For another, his

> > > wife.

> > > > >

> > > > > What I wonder is, why are these caretakers not in serious

> trouble

> > > for

> > > > > over feeding these people. I mean if the bed ridden folks

> were

> > > > > extremely underweight because they were not being fed, the

> > > caretakers

> > > > > would be arrested for neglect.

> > > > > It seems exemely abusive to keep feeding/bringing all the

> food to

> > > > > these poor overweight folks.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean I know the overweight, bedridden people want the food,

> but

> > > if

> > > > > they wanted anything else harmful to them (like, maybe over

> dose

> > > of

> > > > > drugs or something) and the caretakers gave it to them, they

> > > would be

> > > > > held accountable for the damage that came from it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bartenders can be held responsible for giving alcahol to

> people

> > > that

> > > > > have obviously had enough. I don't see how overfeeding

> someone to

> > > > > the point that they are about to die from it, any different.

> > > > >

> > > > > I told my family, that if they should ever get into such a

> shape

> > > and

> > > > > they think that I will keep bringing them the food that is

> keeping

> > > > > them in such an unhealthy state, that they can forget it.

> > > > > They will eat what I bring them, until they can get up and

> fix it

> > > > > themselves.(and take care of themselves).

> > > > > Sheesh.

> > > > > Sure would like to see them go on a raw food diet and the

> medical

> > > > > staff record the progress in every part of their body.

> > > > >

> > > > > Belinda

> > > > >

June 20, 2007

rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece wrote:

>

> does the eater have any responsibility in your world?..if not..then

i

> want to live with you!!

Well sure. It was all his falt up until the point he became bed

ridden and totally dependent on his caretakers.

He then had some responsiblity because he ask and ate the food that

was brought to him.

But the caretakers have to take some resposibility in that they kept

bringing him the food, assisting in his self destruction.

If I were the caretaker.......he would lay on his fat but in his own

filth until he lost enough weight to get up and do something about it.

And then I would probably be arrested. Wouldn't I? )

> a child doesnt KNOW about dieting or the dangers of overeating...you

> cant use them for comparison.

>

> an adult male that continues to open his mouth and put food into it

> can blame no one but himself for weighing 1000lbs.

>

> just as he stopped at 1000 he COULD HAVE CHOSEN to stop at 300. You

> are ignoring the fact that he is CHOOSING NOW to stop.

I don't know what changed his mind about that. I guess he finally

had enough. But why didn't his parents get him help before now?

>

> if hes sssoooooo under the control of other people HOW COME HE CAN

> SPEAK UP NNNOOWW???

>

> because Nobody is forcing him! He is NOT at their mercy!..open your

> eyes beautiful smart raw foodists! Just as hes saying ENOUGH at

> 1000...when he is MOST DEPENDENT..he could have said enough before

> when HE WASNT DEPENDENT...he just WOULDNT.

To be honest, I believe it is the other way around. The caretakers

are at HIS mercy. Bringing him all that food and such.

> does nooo one else see this??

>

> just my opinion. You dont have to agree...but please tell me that at

> least you see the logic in that he could have stopped himself at

300.

>

> do you at least see that??

Of course. But why does anyone do anything that is self

destructive. Most of the time it is because they don't realize it IS

self destructive. Or does not want to believe it. And then they

just don't seem to care after that.

I also suspect that in the case of these big boys in the bed. They

like the attention and someone waiting on them, feeling sorry for

them, etc.

But I still say that the caretakers after the boy is bed ridden has

some responsiblity to shoulder. For he could not possibley have ever

reached that size without someone feeding him the food that causes it.

Because he became bed ridden long before he hit 1,000 lbs.

Belinda

June 20, 2007

no.

how could it be?

he could choose to stop eating at any time. He could resist the

feedings, as we see him doing now. If he were mentally ill he would

still be eating uncontrollably. But he stopped.

this is the key....he DID stop..but he CHOSE 1000. He could have done

it sooner but didnt.

my guess is it was a milestone. A psychological limit too large to

ignore. Anything less was 3 digits...1000 was 4 digits...and just too

much to take..so he finally CHOSE to draw that line.

he had it in him to stop all along...but just hadnt made up his mind

to....he can and should be grateful its not 1100...

thats it....

anna

On 6/20/07, Eric A. Garcia, H.H.C. <garcia.eric wrote:

> So you wouldn't consider this case as a form of unassisted suicide?

> Because it sure comes close to it...

>

> Anna Bishop wrote:

> >

> > exactly!

> >

> > you dont let yourself eat that kind of stuff...

> >

> > even at 300 you recognize that its better than 400!

> >

> > you could give up and eat....but then youd have to lose that ON TOP of

> > the 300...

> >

> > this is what im saying...there is a point when someone has to draw

> > that line....and imho..it is NOT 1000! Thats outrageous!....

> >

> > why not 900?...hes drawing it now.....why now?

> > what changed with his feeders that hes complaining now but not at 900?

> >

> > i feel very sorry for him...but blaming the feeders just makes me kook!

> >

> > thx

> > anna

> >

> > On 6/19/07, Caron <carongroups

> > <carongroups%40bearberi.com.au>> wrote:

> > >

> > > -

> > > Anna Bishop

> > > >thats what im talking about..........you look at yourself and say NO!

> > > i will NOT gain another 100lbs! thats insane....! and i would starve

> > > myself before doing it!

> > >

> > > I set that limit at 65kg (about 145lb), but setting the limit, and not

> > > eating, didn't help me lose weight, or stop me gaining. I was about

> > 300lb

> > > the day my labour was induced, and I've been struggling to lose it ever

> > > since, without success.

> > >

> > > >it could be just 5lbs that you choose to lose, then you can eat

> > > freely for a day, and get back up to that setpoint,,,but you pick a

> > > setpoint and stop there. otherwise, why arent you 1000lbs?

> > >

> > > I'm not 1000lb because I don't have a diet of fatty or sugary foods

> > (just

> > > cooked meat and veges, which is healthy, as far as I've been

> > taught), and

> > > because I had a baby, and now a toddler to run around after.

> > >

> > > Yes, the 1000lb guy made his choices, and no doubt they included poor

> > > choices about which foods to eat. I see the other side though - I've

> > tried

> > > everything I know to lose weight, I've pushed myself to exercise, even

> > > though it results in days or weeks of painful recovery time, because of

> > > other health issues; I eat far less than the average person, not by

> > choice

> > > but because I just don't feel hungry and don't like how I feel

> > (physically)

> > > when I eat, and it's done me no good. I've pretty much done all but take

> > > diet pills (which would affect my boy through my milk), and have

> > surgery. I

> > > have, at times, been at the point where I feel utterly hopeless, and

> > > helpless - I gain weight, or at best can't lose it, no matter what I

> > do or

> > > don't do, or what I eat or don't eat, so why bother trying? Why not

> > just sit

> > > around eating the foods that taste good, it all has the same effect

> > anyway!

> > > I don't eat the fatty foods because they make me sick, and I keep moving

> > > because my boy insists on it.

> > >

> > > I've now chosen to try going raw, because it makes sense, and I've tried

> > > everything else. It's a faint glimmer of light at the end of a very

> > long,

> > > gloomy tunnel, but I owe it to my boy to at least try. He deserves

> > better

> > > than having to go to his own mum's funeral before he reaches adulthood.

> > >

> > > Caron

> > >

June 20, 2007

" I do agree that when someone is in your care, you are

> responsible for that person. When my dad (who has

> heart problems) visited last month, I did not feed him

> the SAD foods he wanted. He ate the same foods my

> family ate. True, I could not stop him from having

> roast when he went to a local restaurant, but I can

> control what happens in my own home. "

I think that that is SO RIGHT! Good for you! I don't feed my loved ones CRAP

either. I'm sick of all the raw foodist/organic moms who feed their kids

macaroni and cheese, etc. too!

If someone gets to be 1000 lbs, yes, it is their fault exclusively except in

the case when they can't walk to the fridge or anything themselves, like that

Hambone dude that used to be on Geraldo. Basically, I do blame the parents for

feeding the kids the foundations of obesity, and the caregivers for giving

incapacitated people food that makes them worse. That said, at some point we ALL

have to stand up and take responsibility for ourselves. Ultimately, it is our

own faults.

Take the Internet to Go: Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news,

photos & more.

June 21, 2007

-

Belinda

>There is a toddler at our church. He is 3 years old and weighs 55lbs

or so. Now in my oppinion this child is being abused or neglected.

Whatever you want to call it. They feed him like he was a fattening

hog.

And they do it because they love him and he wants to eat like that.

His family does not even consider him fat. Just a big boy. Never

mind this toddler has big enough boobs to fill a B cup bra. (hmmm,

self analysis. I think that I may be jealous of the boob thing.))

I hate seeing kids like that. My ex was like that, I have photos of him as a

child. His mother actually told me she planned to make him obese - that she

" gave him the gift of size " wth?? Seriously messed up family there.

I see parents giving their babies, often only a few months old, chocolate

eggs for their first easter, because " it's cute to watch them eat it " . One

mother I met out shopping, had been in antenatal classes with me, was

telling me that her son would get hyperactive if he ate too much chocolate,

and wouldn't sleep at night, so he wasn't allowed to have it after sunset. I

then watched her buy a bag of chocolate frogs, and give them to him, so he

could have as many as possible before the sun went down! The kid was born a

few days before mine, was twice his size, and just sat there scoffing down

the chocolate with a blank look in his eyes. My boy just stood there staring

at him, couldn't work out what he was doing, hehe. The other boy's parents

were proud of the fact that he could eat nearly a whole pizza with the lot,

jalapenos and all. Oh, and they were not quite a year old at the time.

My boy loves to eat, most kids do, but where possible, I restrict his diet

to fruits, and until recently, cooked veges and meat. I also restrict his

intake, distracting him with a different activity if he's going a bit nuts

with the food - that's all it is to him, an activity he wants to do.

They've actually discovered a disease that makes people eat constantly -

Prader Willi syndrome. It seems to be a chromosomal disorder, which renders

the person infertile and incapable of not eating, leading to obesity, and

all its joys. When I first heard of it, I thought it was going to be another

excuse for the huge numbers of obese people around, but it seems there's

some very specific characteristics that go with it. I was pleased to note

that my boy has none of them.

Caron

June 21, 2007

thats horrible.

and likely child endangerment by calif standards...altho these cases

are currently being tried.

but i see it going that way.

anna

On 6/20/07, Caron <carongroups wrote:

>

> -

> Belinda

> >There is a toddler at our church. He is 3 years old and weighs 55lbs

> or so. Now in my oppinion this child is being abused or neglected.

> Whatever you want to call it. They feed him like he was a fattening

> hog.

> And they do it because they love him and he wants to eat like that.

> His family does not even consider him fat. Just a big boy. Never

> mind this toddler has big enough boobs to fill a B cup bra. (hmmm,

> self analysis. I think that I may be jealous of the boob thing.))

>

> I hate seeing kids like that. My ex was like that, I have photos of him as a

> child. His mother actually told me she planned to make him obese - that she

> " gave him the gift of size " wth?? Seriously messed up family there.

>

> I see parents giving their babies, often only a few months old, chocolate

> eggs for their first easter, because " it's cute to watch them eat it " . One

> mother I met out shopping, had been in antenatal classes with me, was

> telling me that her son would get hyperactive if he ate too much chocolate,

> and wouldn't sleep at night, so he wasn't allowed to have it after sunset. I

> then watched her buy a bag of chocolate frogs, and give them to him, so he

> could have as many as possible before the sun went down! The kid was born a

> few days before mine, was twice his size, and just sat there scoffing down

> the chocolate with a blank look in his eyes. My boy just stood there staring

> at him, couldn't work out what he was doing, hehe. The other boy's parents

> were proud of the fact that he could eat nearly a whole pizza with the lot,

> jalapenos and all. Oh, and they were not quite a year old at the time.

>

> My boy loves to eat, most kids do, but where possible, I restrict his diet

> to fruits, and until recently, cooked veges and meat. I also restrict his

> intake, distracting him with a different activity if he's going a bit nuts

> with the food - that's all it is to him, an activity he wants to do.

>

> They've actually discovered a disease that makes people eat constantly -

> Prader Willi syndrome. It seems to be a chromosomal disorder, which renders

> the person infertile and incapable of not eating, leading to obesity, and

> all its joys. When I first heard of it, I thought it was going to be another

> excuse for the huge numbers of obese people around, but it seems there's

> some very specific characteristics that go with it. I was pleased to note

> that my boy has none of them.

>

> Caron

>

June 21, 2007

Anna,

I do agree the eater is of course at large responsible. But just like any

addict who is ou of control so is this eater. And as far as reaching a point of

enough is enough that is different for everyone. But it seems to me that you are

expecting this person to have all this self control. In a perfect world that

would be great. But my point is sometimes it takes an 'addict' time and a lot of

help getting there. Of the family of these people who are feeding would say ok

since I am bringing you the food you will eat what I give you or nothing. But to

take them a bunch of unhealthy food, what they obviously are addicted to, and

expect them to say oh no I won't eat it I will just starve seems unrealistic. If

I have a friend that is a drug addict and they are in withdrawal and ca't go

get the drugs themselves, I am not going to go get them and place them in front

of them and say you really shouldn't do this. Same principal. But no I am not

overlooking the fact the eater does

share in the responsibility

Anna Bishop <mowthpeece wrote:

does the eater have any responsibility in your world?..if not..then i

want to live with you!!

a child doesnt KNOW about dieting or the dangers of overeating...you

cant use them for comparison.

an adult male that continues to open his mouth and put food into it

can blame no one but himself for weighing 1000lbs.

just as he stopped at 1000 he COULD HAVE CHOSEN to stop at 300. You

are ignoring the fact that he is CHOOSING NOW to stop.

if hes sssoooooo under the control of other people HOW COME HE CAN

SPEAK UP NNNOOWW???

because Nobody is forcing him! He is NOT at their mercy!..open your

eyes beautiful smart raw foodists! Just as hes saying ENOUGH at

1000...when he is MOST DEPENDENT..he could have said enough before

when HE WASNT DEPENDENT...he just WOULDNT.

does nooo one else see this??

just my opinion. You dont have to agree...but please tell me that at

least you see the logic in that he could have stopped himself at 300.

do you at least see that??

peace

anna

On 6/20/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> Well, it looks like to me that anyone that continually feeds someone

> that is 800, 900, 1000 lbs etc. is assisting in their death. Murder,

> suicide, whatever. The person bringing the overweight person their

> food is assisisting in their death.

>

> Just like I think that parents that allow their children to over eat

> to the point of morbid obesity, is abusing them.

>

> There is a toddler at our church. He is 3 years old and weighs 55lbs

> or so. Now in my oppinion this child is being abused or neglected.

> Whatever you want to call it. They feed him like he was a fattening

> hog.

> And they do it because they love him and he wants to eat like that.

> His family does not even consider him fat. Just a big boy. Never

> mind this toddler has big enough boobs to fill a B cup bra. (hmmm,

> self analysis. I think that I may be jealous of the boob thing.))

>

> Belinda

>

> -- In rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece wrote:

> >

> > With a crane.

> >

> > if this guy was under medical care...in the custody of trained

> > diaticians and THEY mis-fed him..they face civil liability for

> feeding

> > him because he has reason to TRUST the food is healthy. Assuming its

> > not obviously unhealthy, like greasy fast food.

> >

> > putting drugs near a despondent suicidal person is murder II.

> Theres case law.

> >

> > kevorkian did time because assisted suicide IS A CRIME in the state

> in question.

> >

> > if this guy had psych problems so he couldnt stop eating...then why

> is

> > he deciding at 1000lbs that hes had enough?

> >

> > anna

> >

> > On 6/20/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> > > No one is about self responsiblity more than I.

> > > I agree. These folks fed themselves to the point of being

> extremely

> > > overweight. But once they are bed ridden, they cannot get their

> own

> > > food anymore. Someone must bring it to them. I cannot imagine

> > > someone that loves the bedridden person, to continue to help

> him/her

> > > harm themselves. I mean if a person is a severe diabetic (and

> > > bedridden) and the person caring for them brings them sugar to

> eat,

> > > knowing that it is killing them, they are partially responsible

> for

> > > that persons condition and whatever happens to them.

> > >

> > > If a depressed person wants to overdose on drugs and someone

> brings

> > > them the drugs so that they can overdose on them. Are they not

> > > somewhat responsible for their death? Even though they did not

> force

> > > the depressed person to swallow them?

> > > Dr. Kovorkian spent years in prison, just for this. He never

> killed

> > > anyone himself, he just provided them with the means to kill

> > > themselves.

> > >

> > > I think feeding dangerously overweight people the very thing that

> is

> > > killing them, is the same. Anyone that is that overweight has

> some

> > > severe psychological and emotional problems, that need to be

> > > addressed.

> > > Just the same as an anorexic person. Do we help an anorexic or

> > > bulemic person continue their self distruction and not hold some

> > > responsiblitly for it.

> > > Do we say, " it was my daughters decision to starve herself to

> death

> > > and I just wanted to support her decision. After all it is her

> life

> > > and her body "

> > >

> > > Each to their own I guess, but I could never help anyone, and

> > > certainly not my loved ones, do the very thing that is killing

> them

> > > AND making them disabled to the point that I have to take care of

> > > them. I cant' control what they can do on their own, but once

> they

> > > are dependent on me to help them continue their self

> destruction. It

> > > WILL come to a stop. I assure you.

> > >

> > > How in the world do you roll 1,000 lbs of person over to clean

> > > him/her up.

> > >

> > > Belinda

> > >

> > > rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece@> wrote:

> > > >

> > > > you dont blame the feeders because unless theyr putting a gun

> > > > to the eaters head, it is the eater that is choosing to eat.

> > > >

> > > > a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

> > > > judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

> > > > to alter our judgment in the same way. the twinkie defense

> > > > failed, remember?

> > > >

> > > > i should warn you all, if you havent figured it out, that i am

> very

> > > > big on personal responsibility. the buck stops here.

> > > >

> > > > stop blaming other people for what we do to ourselves.

> > > >

> > > > conciously or unconciously this person got here by his mouth.

> > > > he could have chosen at any time to stop eating, chewing, and

> > > > swallowing.

> > > >

> > > > to blame the family is to take all responsibility away from him.

> > > >

> > > > so when he loses the weight, is he going to avoid his family

> > > > because they may expose him to food again? huh??

> > > > hes going to have to control HIMSELF. food is everywhere!

> > > >

> > > > i feel for him, my heart breaks at stories like this, but if

> IIII

> > > can

> > > > stop eating at a particular weight, others can too.

> > > >

> > > > was 300lbs not enough to stop? how bout 400?...surely when

> > > > he reached 500 he could have figured he was too heavy..so

> > > > 600?...........all the way to 1000 and NOW he figures it out??

> > > >

> > > > he got that big because he CONCIOUSLY GAVE UP....

> > > > it was his CHOICE.

> > > > it was too big a hurdle to lose 300lbs, 400lbs, 500lbs...so he

> > > > just kept eating....i suppose its an easier hurdle to lose at a

> > > 1000?

> > > >

> > > > anytime that you feel that its too hard to lose the 100lbs that

> you

> > > > (figuratively) have to lose, so youre going to eat.....ask

> yourself

> > > if

> > > > it will be easier to lose 100lbs or 101lbs.....'cause once you

> give

> > > up

> > > > and start eating, youre adding more....

> > > >

> > > > dont get discouraged at the amount you have to lose, it could

> always

> > > > be worse..if you have 100lbs,,,thank G-d for it not being 200.

> be

> > > > grateful. positive thinking is more effective than we think it

> is.

> > > >

> > > > you are what you think you are.

> > > >

> > > > peace

> > > > anna

> > > >

> > > > On 6/19/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > Have any of you seen this show? It is on TLC. About

> extremely

> > > > > overweight people trying to loose their weight.

> > > > >

> > > > > I am dumb struck as to the many folks that are so overweight

> that

> > > > > they cannot get out of bed. One young man weighed in at

> 1,000 lbs

> > > > > before getting help. Had not been out of the bed in 7 years.

> > > > >

> > > > > Now my observation is.

> > > > > At the point this man (and the others like him) reached the

> point

> > > > > that they were bed ridden, someone else became responsible

> for not

> > > > > only maintaining their massive weight, but also increasing

> it. In

> > > > > the case of this fellow, it was his parents. For another, his

> > > wife.

> > > > >

> > > > > What I wonder is, why are these caretakers not in serious

> trouble

> > > for

> > > > > over feeding these people. I mean if the bed ridden folks

> were

> > > > > extremely underweight because they were not being fed, the

> > > caretakers

> > > > > would be arrested for neglect.

> > > > > It seems exemely abusive to keep feeding/bringing all the

> food to

> > > > > these poor overweight folks.

> > > > >

> > > > > I mean I know the overweight, bedridden people want the food,

> but

> > > if

> > > > > they wanted anything else harmful to them (like, maybe over

> dose

> > > of

> > > > > drugs or something) and the caretakers gave it to them, they

> > > would be

> > > > > held accountable for the damage that came from it.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bartenders can be held responsible for giving alcahol to

> people

> > > that

> > > > > have obviously had enough. I don't see how overfeeding

> someone to

> > > > > the point that they are about to die from it, any different.

> > > > >

> > > > > I told my family, that if they should ever get into such a

> shape

> > > and

> > > > > they think that I will keep bringing them the food that is

> keeping

> > > > > them in such an unhealthy state, that they can forget it.

> > > > > They will eat what I bring them, until they can get up and

> fix it

> > > > > themselves.(and take care of themselves).

> > > > > Sheesh.

> > > > > Sure would like to see them go on a raw food diet and the

> medical

> > > > > staff record the progress in every part of their body.

> > > > >

> > > > > Belinda

> > > > >

June 21, 2007

I believe in personal responsibility as well .. Food

addiction is very difficult to control because it is

different from most addictions .. You have to eat ..

with drugs or alcohol .. you can stop taking them and

you will get better as with food you need to take it

daily .. Learning to make the right choices is very

important but not always as easy as some might think

Cajenda

--- Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully wrote:

> Anna,

>

> I do agree the eater is of course at large

> responsible. But just like any addict who is ou of

> control so is this eater. And as far as reaching a

>

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June 21, 2007

my soon to be exhusb is an alcoholic....i too know a little bit about addiction.

why are you insisting on ignoring the fact that at 1000lbs the man has

had enough?

you do get that right? You know at 1000 he is FINALLY wanting to stop.

can we agree to that much??

cuz when that snaps in your head youre going to have to realize that

he is NOT AN OUT OF CONTROL ADDICT.

stop treating him like one. Where do you get this idea?

EVEN IF he were an addict.....EVEN AN ADDICT HAS TO DECIDE HES HAD

ENOUGH.....its a choice!!!

this poor man COULD HAVE CHOSEN 900 but didnt want to.

i am just floored at the excuses you folks are making for this man.

Absolutely floored.

if he were out of control he COULD NOT BE STOPPING NOW...

is this a test? Are you guys screwing with me to see how often i can

repeat the same point before my head explodes?

anna

On 6/21/07, Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully wrote:

> Anna,

>

> I do agree the eater is of course at large responsible. But just like any

> addict who is ou of control so is this eater. And as far as reaching a point

> of enough is enough that is different for everyone. But it seems to me that

> you are expecting this person to have all this self control. In a perfect

> world that would be great. But my point is sometimes it takes an 'addict'

> time and a lot of help getting there. Of the family of these people who are

> feeding would say ok since I am bringing you the food you will eat what I

> give you or nothing. But to take them a bunch of unhealthy food, what they

> obviously are addicted to, and expect them to say oh no I won't eat it I

> will just starve seems unrealistic. If I have a friend that is a drug

> addict and they are in withdrawal and ca't go get the drugs themselves, I am

> not going to go get them and place them in front of them and say you really

> shouldn't do this. Same principal. But no I am not overlooking the fact the

> eater does

> share in the responsibility

>

> Anna Bishop <mowthpeece wrote:

> does the eater have any responsibility in your world?..if

> not..then i

> want to live with you!!

>

> a child doesnt KNOW about dieting or the dangers of overeating...you

> cant use them for comparison.

>

> an adult male that continues to open his mouth and put food into it

> can blame no one but himself for weighing 1000lbs.

>

> just as he stopped at 1000 he COULD HAVE CHOSEN to stop at 300. You

> are ignoring the fact that he is CHOOSING NOW to stop.

>

> if hes sssoooooo under the control of other people HOW COME HE CAN

> SPEAK UP NNNOOWW???

>

> because Nobody is forcing him! He is NOT at their mercy!..open your

> eyes beautiful smart raw foodists! Just as hes saying ENOUGH at

> 1000...when he is MOST DEPENDENT..he could have said enough before

> when HE WASNT DEPENDENT...he just WOULDNT.

>

> does nooo one else see this??

>

> just my opinion. You dont have to agree...but please tell me that at

> least you see the logic in that he could have stopped himself at 300.

>

> do you at least see that??

>

> peace

> anna

>

> On 6/20/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> > Well, it looks like to me that anyone that continually feeds someone

> > that is 800, 900, 1000 lbs etc. is assisting in their death. Murder,

> > suicide, whatever. The person bringing the overweight person their

> > food is assisisting in their death.

> >

> > Just like I think that parents that allow their children to over eat

> > to the point of morbid obesity, is abusing them.

> >

> > There is a toddler at our church. He is 3 years old and weighs 55lbs

> > or so. Now in my oppinion this child is being abused or neglected.

> > Whatever you want to call it. They feed him like he was a fattening

> > hog.

> > And they do it because they love him and he wants to eat like that.

> > His family does not even consider him fat. Just a big boy. Never

> > mind this toddler has big enough boobs to fill a B cup bra. (hmmm,

> > self analysis. I think that I may be jealous of the boob thing.))

> >

> > Belinda

> >

> > -- In rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece wrote:

> > >

> > > With a crane.

> > >

> > > if this guy was under medical care...in the custody of trained

> > > diaticians and THEY mis-fed him..they face civil liability for

> > feeding

> > > him because he has reason to TRUST the food is healthy. Assuming its

> > > not obviously unhealthy, like greasy fast food.

> > >

> > > putting drugs near a despondent suicidal person is murder II.

> > Theres case law.

> > >

> > > kevorkian did time because assisted suicide IS A CRIME in the state

> > in question.

> > >

> > > if this guy had psych problems so he couldnt stop eating...then why

> > is

> > > he deciding at 1000lbs that hes had enough?

> > >

> > > anna

> > >

> > > On 6/20/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> > > > No one is about self responsiblity more than I.

> > > > I agree. These folks fed themselves to the point of being

> > extremely

> > > > overweight. But once they are bed ridden, they cannot get their

> > own

> > > > food anymore. Someone must bring it to them. I cannot imagine

> > > > someone that loves the bedridden person, to continue to help

> > him/her

> > > > harm themselves. I mean if a person is a severe diabetic (and

> > > > bedridden) and the person caring for them brings them sugar to

> > eat,

> > > > knowing that it is killing them, they are partially responsible

> > for

> > > > that persons condition and whatever happens to them.

> > > >

> > > > If a depressed person wants to overdose on drugs and someone

> > brings

> > > > them the drugs so that they can overdose on them. Are they not

> > > > somewhat responsible for their death? Even though they did not

> > force

> > > > the depressed person to swallow them?

> > > > Dr. Kovorkian spent years in prison, just for this. He never

> > killed

> > > > anyone himself, he just provided them with the means to kill

> > > > themselves.

> > > >

> > > > I think feeding dangerously overweight people the very thing that

> > is

> > > > killing them, is the same. Anyone that is that overweight has

> > some

> > > > severe psychological and emotional problems, that need to be

> > > > addressed.

> > > > Just the same as an anorexic person. Do we help an anorexic or

> > > > bulemic person continue their self distruction and not hold some

> > > > responsiblitly for it.

> > > > Do we say, " it was my daughters decision to starve herself to

> > death

> > > > and I just wanted to support her decision. After all it is her

> > life

> > > > and her body "

> > > >

> > > > Each to their own I guess, but I could never help anyone, and

> > > > certainly not my loved ones, do the very thing that is killing

> > them

> > > > AND making them disabled to the point that I have to take care of

> > > > them. I cant' control what they can do on their own, but once

> > they

> > > > are dependent on me to help them continue their self

> > destruction. It

> > > > WILL come to a stop. I assure you.

> > > >

> > > > How in the world do you roll 1,000 lbs of person over to clean

> > > > him/her up.

> > > >

> > > > Belinda

> > > >

> > > > rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece@> wrote:

> > > > >

> > > > > you dont blame the feeders because unless theyr putting a gun

> > > > > to the eaters head, it is the eater that is choosing to eat.

> > > > >

> > > > > a bartender needs to stop serving because alcohol alters

> > > > > judgment. food, altho it alters our chemistry, is not considered

> > > > > to alter our judgment in the same way. the twinkie defense

> > > > > failed, remember?

> > > > >

> > > > > i should warn you all, if you havent figured it out, that i am

> > very

> > > > > big on personal responsibility. the buck stops here.

> > > > >

> > > > > stop blaming other people for what we do to ourselves.

> > > > >

> > > > > conciously or unconciously this person got here by his mouth.

> > > > > he could have chosen at any time to stop eating, chewing, and

> > > > > swallowing.

> > > > >

> > > > > to blame the family is to take all responsibility away from him.

> > > > >

> > > > > so when he loses the weight, is he going to avoid his family

> > > > > because they may expose him to food again? huh??

> > > > > hes going to have to control HIMSELF. food is everywhere!

> > > > >

> > > > > i feel for him, my heart breaks at stories like this, but if

> > IIII

> > > > can

> > > > > stop eating at a particular weight, others can too.

> > > > >

> > > > > was 300lbs not enough to stop? how bout 400?...surely when

> > > > > he reached 500 he could have figured he was too heavy..so

> > > > > 600?...........all the way to 1000 and NOW he figures it out??

> > > > >

> > > > > he got that big because he CONCIOUSLY GAVE UP....

> > > > > it was his CHOICE.

> > > > > it was too big a hurdle to lose 300lbs, 400lbs, 500lbs...so he

> > > > > just kept eating....i suppose its an easier hurdle to lose at a

> > > > 1000?

> > > > >

> > > > > anytime that you feel that its too hard to lose the 100lbs that

> > you

> > > > > (figuratively) have to lose, so youre going to eat.....ask

> > yourself

> > > > if

> > > > > it will be easier to lose 100lbs or 101lbs.....'cause once you

> > give

> > > > up

> > > > > and start eating, youre adding more....

> > > > >

> > > > > dont get discouraged at the amount you have to lose, it could

> > always

> > > > > be worse..if you have 100lbs,,,thank G-d for it not being 200.

> > be

> > > > > grateful. positive thinking is more effective than we think it

> > is.

> > > > >

> > > > > you are what you think you are.

> > > > >

> > > > > peace

> > > > > anna

> > > > >

> > > > > On 6/19/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN@> wrote:

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Have any of you seen this show? It is on TLC. About

> > extremely

> > > > > > overweight people trying to loose their weight.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I am dumb struck as to the many folks that are so overweight

> > that

> > > > > > they cannot get out of bed. One young man weighed in at

> > 1,000 lbs

> > > > > > before getting help. Had not been out of the bed in 7 years.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Now my observation is.

> > > > > > At the point this man (and the others like him) reached the

> > point

> > > > > > that they were bed ridden, someone else became responsible

> > for not

> > > > > > only maintaining their massive weight, but also increasing

> > it. In

> > > > > > the case of this fellow, it was his parents. For another, his

> > > > wife.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > What I wonder is, why are these caretakers not in serious

> > trouble

> > > > for

> > > > > > over feeding these people. I mean if the bed ridden folks

> > were

> > > > > > extremely underweight because they were not being fed, the

> > > > caretakers

> > > > > > would be arrested for neglect.

> > > > > > It seems exemely abusive to keep feeding/bringing all the

> > food to

> > > > > > these poor overweight folks.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I mean I know the overweight, bedridden people want the food,

> > but

> > > > if

> > > > > > they wanted anything else harmful to them (like, maybe over

> > dose

> > > > of

> > > > > > drugs or something) and the caretakers gave it to them, they

> > > > would be

> > > > > > held accountable for the damage that came from it.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bartenders can be held responsible for giving alcahol to

> > people

> > > > that

> > > > > > have obviously had enough. I don't see how overfeeding

> > someone to

> > > > > > the point that they are about to die from it, any different.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > I told my family, that if they should ever get into such a

> > shape

> > > > and

> > > > > > they think that I will keep bringing them the food that is

> > keeping

> > > > > > them in such an unhealthy state, that they can forget it.

> > > > > > They will eat what I bring them, until they can get up and

> > fix it

> > > > > > themselves.(and take care of themselves).

> > > > > > Sheesh.

> > > > > > Sure would like to see them go on a raw food diet and the

> > medical

> > > > > > staff record the progress in every part of their body.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Belinda

> > > > > >

June 21, 2007

Well you are no more " floored " than I am at your response.

Anyone that can reach a weight of 1,000 lbs, IS out of control. OR

they would not do it. NO one wants to be that big.

I too am floored that you do not consider those that contribute to

his addiction as being somewhat responsible.

Many people get out of control in many areas of their lives. And

many times they reach a point that they want back in control.

Whatever the reason that they decide that.

Though this 1,000 lb man has reached the point that he wants to do

something, he cannot do it alone. He will have to have help. Just

like he needed help to reach his massive weight, he will need help to

get rid of it. The people that help him to shed his weight and

continue to help him keep it off, will be somewhat responsible for

his weight loss. He will of course be the determining factor as to

whether or not the weight loss actually occurs.

But I repeat, he will not and cannot be totally responsible for his

weight loss in the beginning, just like he was not totally

responsible for his continued weight gain at the end.

I will say no more on this subject, for fear your head will

explode.) And I don't want to be somewhat responsible for that

amazing feat, by contributing to the cause.;o)

Belinda

rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece wrote:

>

> my soon to be exhusb is an alcoholic....i too know a little bit

about addiction.

>

> why are you insisting on ignoring the fact that at 1000lbs the man

has

> had enough?

>

> you do get that right? You know at 1000 he is FINALLY wanting to

stop.

>

> can we agree to that much??

>

> cuz when that snaps in your head youre going to have to realize that

> he is NOT AN OUT OF CONTROL ADDICT.

>

> stop treating him like one. Where do you get this idea?

>

> EVEN IF he were an addict.....EVEN AN ADDICT HAS TO DECIDE HES HAD

> ENOUGH.....its a choice!!!

>

> this poor man COULD HAVE CHOSEN 900 but didnt want to.

>

> i am just floored at the excuses you folks are making for this man.

> Absolutely floored.

>

> if he were out of control he COULD NOT BE STOPPING NOW...

>

> is this a test? Are you guys screwing with me to see how often i

can

> repeat the same point before my head explodes?

>

> anna

>

> On 6/21/07, Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully wrote:

> > Anna,

> >

> > I do agree the eater is of course at large responsible. But

just like any

> > addict who is ou of control so is this eater. And as far as

reaching a point

> > of enough is enough that is different for everyone. But it seems

to me that

> > you are expecting this person to have all this self control. In a

perfect

> > world that would be great. But my point is sometimes it takes

an 'addict'

> > time and a lot of help getting there. Of the family of these

people who are

> > feeding would say ok since I am bringing you the food you will

eat what I

> > give you or nothing. But to take them a bunch of unhealthy food,

what they

> > obviously are addicted to, and expect them to say oh no I won't

eat it I

> > will just starve seems unrealistic. If I have a friend that is a

drug

> > addict and they are in withdrawal and ca't go get the drugs

themselves, I am

> > not going to go get them and place them in front of them and say

you really

> > shouldn't do this. Same principal. But no I am not overlooking

the fact the

> > eater does

> > share in the responsibility

> >

> > Anna Bishop <mowthpeece wrote:

> > does the eater have any responsibility in your

world?..if

> > not..then i

> > want to live with you!!

> >

> > a child doesnt KNOW about dieting or the dangers of

overeating...you

> > cant use them for comparison.

> >

> > an adult male that continues to open his mouth and put food into

it

> > can blame no one but himself for weighing 1000lbs.

> >

> > just as he stopped at 1000 he COULD HAVE CHOSEN to stop at 300.

You

> > are ignoring the fact that he is CHOOSING NOW to stop.

> >

> > if hes sssoooooo under the control of other people HOW COME HE CAN

> > SPEAK UP NNNOOWW???

> >

> > because Nobody is forcing him! He is NOT at their mercy!..open

your

> > eyes beautiful smart raw foodists! Just as hes saying ENOUGH at

> > 1000...when he is MOST DEPENDENT..he could have said enough before

> > when HE WASNT DEPENDENT...he just WOULDNT.

> >

> > does nooo one else see this??

> >

> > just my opinion. You dont have to agree...but please tell me that

at

> > least you see the logic in that he could have stopped himself at

300.

> >

> > do you at least see that??

> >

> > peace

> > anna

> >

June 21, 2007

You're so right. That is child abuse.

The fish are biting.

Get more visitors on your site using Search Marketing.

June 21, 2007

you couldnt possibly be responsible for my head exploding....

because i would never give you that power. Its my CHOICE.

i was actually kidding...

i am greatful that greater minds than me try cases like these in

court..we need them...

the points are so subtle as to get lost in emotion...logic flies out the window.

whose responsibility is it to prevent a pedestrian from getting hit by a car?

ill keep it simple....

its the pedestrians......why?

because its the ped that dies. He is the most invested. He has the

most to lose. Depend on the 3000lb machine to stop and it doesnt,

does it suffer?

i see ones weight problem the same way. Who else but you should care

about your weight?

peace

anna

On 6/21/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> Well you are no more " floored " than I am at your response.

>

> Anyone that can reach a weight of 1,000 lbs, IS out of control. OR

> they would not do it. NO one wants to be that big.

>

> I too am floored that you do not consider those that contribute to

> his addiction as being somewhat responsible.

>

> Many people get out of control in many areas of their lives. And

> many times they reach a point that they want back in control.

> Whatever the reason that they decide that.

>

> Though this 1,000 lb man has reached the point that he wants to do

> something, he cannot do it alone. He will have to have help. Just

> like he needed help to reach his massive weight, he will need help to

> get rid of it. The people that help him to shed his weight and

> continue to help him keep it off, will be somewhat responsible for

> his weight loss. He will of course be the determining factor as to

> whether or not the weight loss actually occurs.

> But I repeat, he will not and cannot be totally responsible for his

> weight loss in the beginning, just like he was not totally

> responsible for his continued weight gain at the end.

>

> I will say no more on this subject, for fear your head will

> explode.) And I don't want to be somewhat responsible for that

> amazing feat, by contributing to the cause.;o)

>

> Belinda

>

> rawfood , " Anna Bishop " <mowthpeece wrote:

> >

> > my soon to be exhusb is an alcoholic....i too know a little bit

> about addiction.

> >

> > why are you insisting on ignoring the fact that at 1000lbs the man

> has

> > had enough?

> >

> > you do get that right? You know at 1000 he is FINALLY wanting to

> stop.

> >

> > can we agree to that much??

> >

> > cuz when that snaps in your head youre going to have to realize that

> > he is NOT AN OUT OF CONTROL ADDICT.

> >

> > stop treating him like one. Where do you get this idea?

> >

> > EVEN IF he were an addict.....EVEN AN ADDICT HAS TO DECIDE HES HAD

> > ENOUGH.....its a choice!!!

> >

> > this poor man COULD HAVE CHOSEN 900 but didnt want to.

> >

> > i am just floored at the excuses you folks are making for this man.

> > Absolutely floored.

> >

> > if he were out of control he COULD NOT BE STOPPING NOW...

> >

> > is this a test? Are you guys screwing with me to see how often i

> can

> > repeat the same point before my head explodes?

> >

> > anna

> >

> > On 6/21/07, Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully wrote:

> > > Anna,

> > >

> > > I do agree the eater is of course at large responsible. But

> just like any

> > > addict who is ou of control so is this eater. And as far as

> reaching a point

> > > of enough is enough that is different for everyone. But it seems

> to me that

> > > you are expecting this person to have all this self control. In a

> perfect

> > > world that would be great. But my point is sometimes it takes

> an 'addict'

> > > time and a lot of help getting there. Of the family of these

> people who are

> > > feeding would say ok since I am bringing you the food you will

> eat what I

> > > give you or nothing. But to take them a bunch of unhealthy food,

> what they

> > > obviously are addicted to, and expect them to say oh no I won't

> eat it I

> > > will just starve seems unrealistic. If I have a friend that is a

> drug

> > > addict and they are in withdrawal and ca't go get the drugs

> themselves, I am

> > > not going to go get them and place them in front of them and say

> you really

> > > shouldn't do this. Same principal. But no I am not overlooking

> the fact the

> > > eater does

> > > share in the responsibility

> > >

> > > Anna Bishop <mowthpeece wrote:

> > > does the eater have any responsibility in your

> world?..if

> > > not..then i

> > > want to live with you!!

> > >

> > > a child doesnt KNOW about dieting or the dangers of

> overeating...you

> > > cant use them for comparison.

> > >

> > > an adult male that continues to open his mouth and put food into

> it

> > > can blame no one but himself for weighing 1000lbs.

> > >

> > > just as he stopped at 1000 he COULD HAVE CHOSEN to stop at 300.

> You

> > > are ignoring the fact that he is CHOOSING NOW to stop.

> > >

> > > if hes sssoooooo under the control of other people HOW COME HE CAN

> > > SPEAK UP NNNOOWW???

> > >

> > > because Nobody is forcing him! He is NOT at their mercy!..open

> your

> > > eyes beautiful smart raw foodists! Just as hes saying ENOUGH at

> > > 1000...when he is MOST DEPENDENT..he could have said enough before

> > > when HE WASNT DEPENDENT...he just WOULDNT.

> > >

> > > does nooo one else see this??

> > >

> > > just my opinion. You dont have to agree...but please tell me that

> at

> > > least you see the logic in that he could have stopped himself at

> 300.

> > >

> > > do you at least see that??

> > >

> > > peace

> > > anna

> >

June 21, 2007

ok you had me laughing because you ae getting so upset. i can see you there

stomping your foot saying these people are driving me nuts! ha ha!

Yes at 1000 lbs he ahs had enough-agreed

BUT I think being an out of control food addict is what brought him to that

point of being soooo heavy and maybe he finally snapped or someone got through

to him that hey you ae going to die if you don't change. would it of been better

at 900 lbs sure. What about alcoholics??? Each onme of them (hopefully) hits

bottom and decides to change. That 'bottom' is different for everyone. I still

have NEVER said he holds no responsibility I am just saying a cargiver holds

some if they are the ones enabling him still and changing how you eat and live

is never easy. Are you telling me being 100% raw is a breeze and you have no

setbacks? I would imagine you are human and have had some...why? human, will

power, hard to make a drastic lifestyle change!

Chill I agree with some of your points just not all of them. I think Elchanan

needs to come back over there and loosen you up! He must of left you in knots!

hee hee

Anna Bishop <mowthpeece wrote:

my soon to be exhusb is an alcoholic....i too know a little bit about

addiction.