Seeking Peacefulness ... A Response the Conversation About Seeking Blame, a.k.a. Responsibility [1000 pound man]

[Guest guest]

Greetings everyone,

 

I've been scanning our recent dialog about the 1000-pound man and related

matters, the " poll " designed to assign blame to someone, and so forth. And

with each passing post, I've felt pain and disappointment, a sort of

" sinking feeling " . I have a deeply felt desire for compassion and connection

with and among people, and this entire conversation, with the exception of

one single post (among literally dozens), has not come even close to serving

this desire of mine.

 

I actually attempted to share some thoughts several days ago, in post

#31054, entitled " A Matter of Choice ... Or Not? (Subconsciously Driven

Behavior) " . No one seemed to pick up on any of the ideas I shared there,

perhaps because I did not use the thread names from the conversation

(referencing the poll and the TV show). So I'll try again here, this time

from a different perspective.

 

I disagree ... painfully disagree ... with almost everything everyone has

said throughout the entire conversation. The one exception, mentioned above,

is post #31301, by Kerri Myers, where Kerri wrote, in part:

 

" Maybe for the first time in a long time, somebody believed in this man....

there is a lot to be said for someone believing that even at 1000 pounds,

you can lose the weight you need to live a healthy lifestyle. Maybe it just

took that encouragement, and that chance- along with the support of

nutritionists, trainers, doctors, friends and family- to help him commit to

it. "

 

From my own perspective, every other post I recall reading in this

conversation has arisen from a place of violence, a place of blaming ... a

place of judgment. The entire thread about the " poll " was initiated with the

express purpose of assigning blame ... is it this man, the caretaker ...

who?

 

Who are we, anyway?

 

By this I mean, whom do we CHOOSE to become? What is the content of our

character? What shall we say of those about whom we know absolutely nothing

at all, nothing of their experience, their pain, their fear, their hopes,

their despair? What would we have others say of us one day when, in some

circumstance we do not presently envision, the tables are turned?

 

I have never met a human who carries out 100% of his/her expressed

intentions ... myself included, by all means. We all assert, at times,

certain choices ... expressed perhaps as goals, values, specific commitments

to do things ... then do not follow through. Do we really do this entirely

out of unfettered free will, out of wide-open, unimpaired choice?

 

That seems to be the implication of this conversation. Yet for me, the

answer is a resounding " no " .

 

We live in a world that values cognition (intellect), " reason " , " critical

thinking " , and so forth. I love all these things ... heaven only knows, my

posts are filled with information, abstract ideas, lines of reasoning, and

the like. Yet, at the same time, I make every effort to avoid judging the

people (as opposed to the ideas or the information). Even in the presence of

some rather noisy criticism, I have remained calm in my presence in this

group ... when I had enough information " on people " to level them, quite

frankly, had I wished to. But such behavior is unbecoming, it would have

been tragic and violent expression of my own needs for recognition, or

fairness, or whatever. And fortunately, most of the time I am able to find

more constructive means for meeting such needs of mine. This has not always

been so, and for this I feel deeply grateful.

 

Let's consider, for a few moments, this 1000-pound man. I have not met him,

I have not watched any TV show about him, I have barely read the

descriptions provided in the discussion here ... I find it too painful to

read what people are saying. So everything I shall say next comes from

within me ... it is not " true " or " false " , not " correct " or " incorrect " , not

" right " or " wrong " . I'm simply sharing some of my own observations,

feelings, and desires.

 

What do we know of his self-esteem? Did his parents, or teachers, or

religious leaders, or others teach him that he is a valuable, worthwhile

human? Did they teach him self-love and self-respect? Did they guide him

into kind, constructive relationships with other people?

 

Honestly, I have no earthly idea ... and I suspect that the answer to every

one of these questions is " no " .

 

Perhaps this man feels so afraid of connecting with other people, even of

being in their presence, that he is spending his life (until recently)

building the biggest, thickest wall of armor between himself and the world

that he can construct.

 

Perhaps this man has never experienced genuine friendship ... and/or perhaps

he has experienced great betrayal in his life. Perhaps, somewhere along the

way, somewhere inside, he decided that food is his best, his only friend.

Perhaps he did what he did simply to survive, for awhile at least, and then

completely lost any sort of control.

 

Have we no compassion for this man? Can we not express simple kindness ...

even without knowing all the details, even if he has really done this to

himself, all by himself (which I seriously doubt)?

 

And what of those caregivers? Who are they? What instructions have they been

given, and by whom? What resources are available to them? What is their

frame of reference ... their belief system, about health and disease, about

personal choice and about support and encouragement?

 

Obviously, once again, I have no earthly idea how to answer any of these

questions. But I do suspect that these people are following some sort of

instructions ... perhaps what they learned from their parents, teachers,

doctors ... who knows.

 

We humans are a curious blend of harmony and discord. Whenever our

programming ... that which our subconscious mind knows is " true " ...

reasonably agrees with our consciously chosen values, beliefs, goals, etc.,

we tend to move forward with ease and grace. However, whenever our

subconscious mind holds beliefs that conflict with our consciously chosen

values, beliefs, goals, etc., then our subconscious mind almost always

prevails ... we act and speak differently from our expressed intentions, and

we are left feeling quite helpless, powerless, etc. Why did we DO that? Why

did we NOT do that? We have no earthly idea. And if this is true for us,

then why not for this man, or for any man, woman, or child?

 

Let's let go of our judgments ... ALL of our judgments ... about ourselves,

one another, people in general. Let us abandon forever any notion of blame,

" responsibility " (to the extent this means assigning blame, as in this

conversation), right/wrong, good/bad, and so forth. And in their place, let

us seek connection, understanding, compassion ... those things that do not

arise primarily through our cognition, but rather from a much deeper place

within us.

 

Above all, let's really give some conscious thought to who we wish to

become.

 

Best to all,

Elchanan

 

PS: I post most of my posts in the PathOfHealth Group.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

Caroline

 

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Elchanan

Thursday, June 21, 2007 8:58 PM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Seeking Peacefulness ... A Response the Conversation

About Seeking Blame, a.k.a. " Responsibility " [1000 pound man]

 

Greetings everyone,

 

I've been scanning our recent dialog about the 1000-pound man and related

matters, the " poll " designed to assign blame to someone, and so forth. And

with each passing post, I've felt pain and disappointment, a sort of

" sinking feeling " . I have a deeply felt desire for compassion and connection

with and among people, and this entire conversation, with the exception of

one single post (among literally dozens), has not come even close to serving

this desire of mine.

 

I actually attempted to share some thoughts several days ago, in post

#31054, entitled " A Matter of Choice ... Or Not? (Subconsciously Driven

Behavior) " . No one seemed to pick up on any of the ideas I shared there,

perhaps because I did not use the thread names from the conversation

(referencing the poll and the TV show). So I'll try again here, this time

from a different perspective.

 

I disagree ... painfully disagree ... with almost everything everyone has

said throughout the entire conversation. The one exception, mentioned above,

is post #31301, by Kerri Myers, where Kerri wrote, in part:

 

" Maybe for the first time in a long time, somebody believed in this man....

there is a lot to be said for someone believing that even at 1000 pounds,

you can lose the weight you need to live a healthy lifestyle. Maybe it just

took that encouragement, and that chance- along with the support of

nutritionists, trainers, doctors, friends and family- to help him commit to

it. "

 

From my own perspective, every other post I recall reading in this

conversation has arisen from a place of violence, a place of blaming ... a

place of judgment. The entire thread about the " poll " was initiated with the

express purpose of assigning blame ... is it this man, the caretaker ...

who?

 

Who are we, anyway?

 

By this I mean, whom do we CHOOSE to become? What is the content of our

character? What shall we say of those about whom we know absolutely nothing

at all, nothing of their experience, their pain, their fear, their hopes,

their despair? What would we have others say of us one day when, in some

circumstance we do not presently envision, the tables are turned?

 

I have never met a human who carries out 100% of his/her expressed

intentions ... myself included, by all means. We all assert, at times,

certain choices ... expressed perhaps as goals, values, specific commitments

to do things ... then do not follow through. Do we really do this entirely

out of unfettered free will, out of wide-open, unimpaired choice?

 

That seems to be the implication of this conversation. Yet for me, the

answer is a resounding " no " .

 

We live in a world that values cognition (intellect), " reason " , " critical

thinking " , and so forth. I love all these things ... heaven only knows, my

posts are filled with information, abstract ideas, lines of reasoning, and

the like. Yet, at the same time, I make every effort to avoid judging the

people (as opposed to the ideas or the information). Even in the presence of

some rather noisy criticism, I have remained calm in my presence in this

group ... when I had enough information " on people " to level them, quite

frankly, had I wished to. But such behavior is unbecoming, it would have

been tragic and violent expression of my own needs for recognition, or

fairness, or whatever. And fortunately, most of the time I am able to find

more constructive means for meeting such needs of mine. This has not always

been so, and for this I feel deeply grateful.

 

Let's consider, for a few moments, this 1000-pound man. I have not met him,

I have not watched any TV show about him, I have barely read the

descriptions provided in the discussion here ... I find it too painful to

read what people are saying. So everything I shall say next comes from

within me ... it is not " true " or " false " , not " correct " or " incorrect " , not

" right " or " wrong " . I'm simply sharing some of my own observations,

feelings, and desires.

 

What do we know of his self-esteem? Did his parents, or teachers, or

religious leaders, or others teach him that he is a valuable, worthwhile

human? Did they teach him self-love and self-respect? Did they guide him

into kind, constructive relationships with other people?

 

Honestly, I have no earthly idea ... and I suspect that the answer to every

one of these questions is " no " .

 

Perhaps this man feels so afraid of connecting with other people, even of

being in their presence, that he is spending his life (until recently)

building the biggest, thickest wall of armor between himself and the world

that he can construct.

 

Perhaps this man has never experienced genuine friendship ... and/or perhaps

he has experienced great betrayal in his life. Perhaps, somewhere along the

way, somewhere inside, he decided that food is his best, his only friend.

Perhaps he did what he did simply to survive, for awhile at least, and then

completely lost any sort of control.

 

Have we no compassion for this man? Can we not express simple kindness ...

even without knowing all the details, even if he has really done this to

himself, all by himself (which I seriously doubt)?

 

And what of those caregivers? Who are they? What instructions have they been

given, and by whom? What resources are available to them? What is their

frame of reference ... their belief system, about health and disease, about

personal choice and about support and encouragement?

 

Obviously, once again, I have no earthly idea how to answer any of these

questions. But I do suspect that these people are following some sort of

instructions ... perhaps what they learned from their parents, teachers,

doctors ... who knows.

 

We humans are a curious blend of harmony and discord. Whenever our

programming ... that which our subconscious mind knows is " true " ...

reasonably agrees with our consciously chosen values, beliefs, goals, etc.,

we tend to move forward with ease and grace. However, whenever our

subconscious mind holds beliefs that conflict with our consciously chosen

values, beliefs, goals, etc., then our subconscious mind almost always

prevails ... we act and speak differently from our expressed intentions, and

we are left feeling quite helpless, powerless, etc. Why did we DO that? Why

did we NOT do that? We have no earthly idea. And if this is true for us,

then why not for this man, or for any man, woman, or child?

 

Let's let go of our judgments ... ALL of our judgments ... about ourselves,

one another, people in general. Let us abandon forever any notion of blame,

" responsibility " (to the extent this means assigning blame, as in this

conversation), right/wrong, good/bad, and so forth. And in their place, let

us seek connection, understanding, compassion ... those things that do not

arise primarily through our cognition, but rather from a much deeper place

within us.

 

Above all, let's really give some conscious thought to who we wish to

become.

 

Best to all,

Elchanan

 

PS: I post most of my posts in the PathOfHealth Group.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Elchanan,

 

You wrote : " By this I mean, whom do we CHOOSE to become? What is the content

of our

character? What shall we say of those about whom we know absolutely nothing

at all, nothing of their experience, their pain, their fear, their hopes,

their despair? What would we have others say of us one day when, in some

circumstance we do not presently envision, the tables are turned? "

 

BRAVO!!!! I was upset at all the " disgust " thrown out. This is why I had not

posted. This says what I believe.

 

I have always believed " if you are not in my shoes...do not judge me " .

 

Jeannie

 

your time is the most cherished gift of all, tomorrow is promised to no one.

 

 

 

 

Elchanan <Elchanan

rawfood

Thursday, June 21, 2007 7:58:17 PM

[Raw Food] Seeking Peacefulness ... A Response the Conversation About

Seeking Blame, a.k.a. " Responsibility " [1000 pound man]

 

 

Greetings everyone,

 

I've been scanning our recent dialog about the 1000-pound man and related

matters, the " poll " designed to assign blame to someone, and so forth. And

with each passing post, I've felt pain and disappointment, a sort of

" sinking feeling " . I have a deeply felt desire for compassion and connection

with and among people, and this entire conversation, with the exception of

one single post (among literally dozens), has not come even close to serving

this desire of mine.

 

I actually attempted to share some thoughts several days ago, in post

#31054, entitled " A Matter of Choice ... Or Not? (Subconsciously Driven

Behavior) " . No one seemed to pick up on any of the ideas I shared there,

perhaps because I did not use the thread names from the conversation

(referencing the poll and the TV show). So I'll try again here, this time

from a different perspective.

 

I disagree ... painfully disagree ... with almost everything everyone has

said throughout the entire conversation. The one exception, mentioned above,

is post #31301, by Kerri Myers, where Kerri wrote, in part:

 

" Maybe for the first time in a long time, somebody believed in this man....

there is a lot to be said for someone believing that even at 1000 pounds,

you can lose the weight you need to live a healthy lifestyle. Maybe it just

took that encouragement, and that chance- along with the support of

nutritionists, trainers, doctors, friends and family- to help him commit to

it. "

 

From my own perspective, every other post I recall reading in this

conversation has arisen from a place of violence, a place of blaming ... a

place of judgment. The entire thread about the " poll " was initiated with the

express purpose of assigning blame ... is it this man, the caretaker ...

who?

 

Who are we, anyway?

 

By this I mean, whom do we CHOOSE to become? What is the content of our

character? What shall we say of those about whom we know absolutely nothing

at all, nothing of their experience, their pain, their fear, their hopes,

their despair? What would we have others say of us one day when, in some

circumstance we do not presently envision, the tables are turned?

 

I have never met a human who carries out 100% of his/her expressed

intentions ... myself included, by all means. We all assert, at times,

certain choices ... expressed perhaps as goals, values, specific commitments

to do things ... then do not follow through. Do we really do this entirely

out of unfettered free will, out of wide-open, unimpaired choice?

 

That seems to be the implication of this conversation. Yet for me, the

answer is a resounding " no " .

 

We live in a world that values cognition (intellect), " reason " , " critical

thinking " , and so forth. I love all these things ... heaven only knows, my

posts are filled with information, abstract ideas, lines of reasoning, and

the like. Yet, at the same time, I make every effort to avoid judging the

people (as opposed to the ideas or the information). Even in the presence of

some rather noisy criticism, I have remained calm in my presence in this

group ... when I had enough information " on people " to level them, quite

frankly, had I wished to. But such behavior is unbecoming, it would have

been tragic and violent expression of my own needs for recognition, or

fairness, or whatever. And fortunately, most of the time I am able to find

more constructive means for meeting such needs of mine. This has not always

been so, and for this I feel deeply grateful.

 

Let's consider, for a few moments, this 1000-pound man. I have not met him,

I have not watched any TV show about him, I have barely read the

descriptions provided in the discussion here ... I find it too painful to

read what people are saying. So everything I shall say next comes from

within me ... it is not " true " or " false " , not " correct " or " incorrect " , not

" right " or " wrong " . I'm simply sharing some of my own observations,

feelings, and desires.

 

What do we know of his self-esteem? Did his parents, or teachers, or

religious leaders, or others teach him that he is a valuable, worthwhile

human? Did they teach him self-love and self-respect? Did they guide him

into kind, constructive relationships with other people?

 

Honestly, I have no earthly idea ... and I suspect that the answer to every

one of these questions is " no " .

 

Perhaps this man feels so afraid of connecting with other people, even of

being in their presence, that he is spending his life (until recently)

building the biggest, thickest wall of armor between himself and the world

that he can construct.

 

Perhaps this man has never experienced genuine friendship ... and/or perhaps

he has experienced great betrayal in his life. Perhaps, somewhere along the

way, somewhere inside, he decided that food is his best, his only friend.

Perhaps he did what he did simply to survive, for awhile at least, and then

completely lost any sort of control.

 

Have we no compassion for this man? Can we not express simple kindness ...

even without knowing all the details, even if he has really done this to

himself, all by himself (which I seriously doubt)?

 

And what of those caregivers? Who are they? What instructions have they been

given, and by whom? What resources are available to them? What is their

frame of reference ... their belief system, about health and disease, about

personal choice and about support and encouragement?

 

Obviously, once again, I have no earthly idea how to answer any of these

questions. But I do suspect that these people are following some sort of

instructions ... perhaps what they learned from their parents, teachers,

doctors ... who knows.

 

We humans are a curious blend of harmony and discord. Whenever our

programming ... that which our subconscious mind knows is " true " ...

reasonably agrees with our consciously chosen values, beliefs, goals, etc.,

we tend to move forward with ease and grace. However, whenever our

subconscious mind holds beliefs that conflict with our consciously chosen

values, beliefs, goals, etc., then our subconscious mind almost always

prevails ... we act and speak differently from our expressed intentions, and

we are left feeling quite helpless, powerless, etc. Why did we DO that? Why

did we NOT do that? We have no earthly idea. And if this is true for us,

then why not for this man, or for any man, woman, or child?

 

Let's let go of our judgments ... ALL of our judgments ... about ourselves,

one another, people in general. Let us abandon forever any notion of blame,

" responsibility " (to the extent this means assigning blame, as in this

conversation), right/wrong, good/bad, and so forth. And in their place, let

us seek connection, understanding, compassion ... those things that do not

arise primarily through our cognition, but rather from a much deeper place

within us.

 

Above all, let's really give some conscious thought to who we wish to

become.

 

Best to all,

Elchanan

 

PS: I post most of my posts in the PathOfHealth Group.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jeannie. Even if I am in similar shoes ...

 

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

jeannieh h

Thursday, June 21, 2007 9:21 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Seeking Peacefulness ... A Response the Conversation

About Seeking Blame, a.k.a. " Responsibility " [1000 pound man]

 

 

I have always believed " if you are not in my shoes...do not judge me " .

 

Jeannie

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Ahh ..... our gentle El, I was wondering when you would chime in. So

sorry we disappointed you.

 

 

> Greetings everyone,

>

> I've been scanning our recent dialog about the 1000-pound man and

related

> matters, the " poll " designed to assign blame to someone, and so

forth. And

> with each passing post, I've felt pain and disappointment, a sort of

> " sinking feeling " . I have a deeply felt desire for compassion and

connection

> with and among people, and this entire conversation, with the

exception of

> one single post (among literally dozens), has not come even close

to serving

> this desire of mine.

 

 

All anyone can do is wonder about the reasons behind the massive

weight of these people. Unless the TV show chooses to disclose all

the details, we will continue to wonder. And any one of our opinions

is as apt to be the truth as the next. Because we don't know all the

details.

 

 

> I disagree ... painfully disagree ... with almost everything

everyone has

> said throughout the entire conversation. The one exception,

mentioned above,

> is post #31301, by Kerri Myers, where Kerri wrote, in part:

>

> " Maybe for the first time in a long time, somebody believed in this

man....

> there is a lot to be said for someone believing that even at 1000

pounds,

> you can lose the weight you need to live a healthy lifestyle.

Maybe it just

> took that encouragement, and that chance- along with the support of

> nutritionists, trainers, doctors, friends and family- to help him

commit to

> it. "

 

> From my own perspective, every other post I recall reading in this

> conversation has arisen from a place of violence, a place of

blaming ... a

> place of judgment. The entire thread about the " poll " was initiated

with the

> express purpose of assigning blame ... is it this man, the

caretaker ...

> who?

 

There is always something, and/or someone responsible for everything.

 

 

> Who are we, anyway?

 

Just people trying to figure out other people. Hopefully learn by

their mistakes (as well as our own). To prevent the same from

happening to ourselves and our loved ones.

 

 

>

> Let's consider, for a few moments, this 1000-pound man. I have not

met him,

> I have not watched any TV show about him, I have barely read the

> descriptions provided in the discussion here ... I find it too

painful to

> read what people are saying. So everything I shall say next comes

from

> within me ... it is not " true " or " false " , not " correct "

or " incorrect " , not

> " right " or " wrong " . I'm simply sharing some of my own observations,

> feelings, and desires.

>

> What do we know of his self-esteem? Did his parents, or teachers, or

> religious leaders, or others teach him that he is a valuable,

worthwhile

> human? Did they teach him self-love and self-respect? Did they

guide him

> into kind, constructive relationships with other people?

>

> Honestly, I have no earthly idea ... and I suspect that the answer

to every

> one of these questions is " no " .

 

We do not know the answers to the above. But by your suspicion

of " no " , you would be making your own judgement. Just like the rest

of us.

We cannot live our lives without judgeing. We all do it everyday.

 

 

 

> Perhaps this man feels so afraid of connecting with other people,

even of

> being in their presence, that he is spending his life (until

recently)

> building the biggest, thickest wall of armor between himself and

the world

> that he can construct.

 

> Perhaps this man has never experienced genuine friendship ...

and/or perhaps

> he has experienced great betrayal in his life. Perhaps, somewhere

along the

> way, somewhere inside, he decided that food is his best, his only

friend.

> Perhaps he did what he did simply to survive, for awhile at least,

and then

> completely lost any sort of control.

>

> Have we no compassion for this man? Can we not express simple

kindness ...

> even without knowing all the details, even if he has really done

this to

> himself, all by himself (which I seriously doubt)?

 

Sure. I " judge " that not a person posting on this board does not

feel compasion for this man.

 

 

> And what of those caregivers? Who are they? What instructions have

they been

> given, and by whom? What resources are available to them? What is

their

> frame of reference ... their belief system, about health and

disease, about

> personal choice and about support and encouragement?

 

Come on El. Anyone in their right mind would know that continueing

to bring the foods that put an overweight person in the bed is to

continue to keep them in such a state and even make it worse.

Any caregiver with any kind of mind at all can find someone to get

them help for this person if they themselves cannot do it.

 

I mean people do it all the time in the case of other

disablilites ,illnesses, old age, etc..

 

 

>

> Obviously, once again, I have no earthly idea how to answer any of

these

> questions. But I do suspect that these people are following some

sort of

> instructions ... perhaps what they learned from their parents,

teachers,

> doctors ... who knows.

>

> We humans are a curious blend of harmony and discord. Whenever our

> programming ... that which our subconscious mind knows is " true " ...

> reasonably agrees with our consciously chosen values, beliefs,

goals, etc.,

> we tend to move forward with ease and grace. However, whenever our

> subconscious mind holds beliefs that conflict with our consciously

chosen

> values, beliefs, goals, etc., then our subconscious mind almost

always

> prevails ... we act and speak differently from our expressed

intentions, and

> we are left feeling quite helpless, powerless, etc. Why did we DO

that? Why

> did we NOT do that? We have no earthly idea. And if this is true

for us,

> then why not for this man, or for any man, woman, or child?

 

Agreed )

 

 

>

> Let's let go of our judgments ... ALL of our judgments ... about

ourselves,

> one another, people in general. Let us abandon forever any notion

of blame,

> " responsibility " (to the extent this means assigning blame, as in

this

> conversation), right/wrong, good/bad, and so forth. And in their

place, let

> us seek connection, understanding, compassion ... those things that

do not

> arise primarily through our cognition, but rather from a much

deeper place

> within us.

 

Without judgements (they do not have to be harsh and mean) and

responsiblity. Nothing and no one would ever change.

 

We live in a world of " someone else is always to blame for my

problems " . Those people that hold others as responsible for

whatever, never change. Because they keep waiting for those that

they thing are the cause of their problem to change. And that never

happens.

Remember the one that had a lawsuit against McDonalds for their

weight problem? Their food was too good to pass up and too fattening

and unhealthy?

 

Why responsiblity is often subjective (as we prooved in this topic)

there is still responsiblity to be had and blame to place. People,

circumstances, physical health, emotional health, financial status,

and it goes on an on.

 

And yes there is some violence and bitterness posted. And I am

judging that the ones that posted the most bitter and violent post

were the very ones that cared the most and had the most compassion

for this man in this sad state and to all of those that love him.

 

It is a frustrating and heartbreaking thing to watch someone be

destroyed when there is such a simple way out. And it did not or

does not have to be that way.

 

And I do know, that some people need a harsh kick in the pants to get

them going. To help to show them what they are made of and that they

are stronger than they think. As long as people make excuses for

them, baby them and pity them, they will stay in the sad state that

they are in AND drag all those that love them down into the sadness

with them.

 

 

> Above all, let's really give some conscious thought to who we wish

to

> become.

 

Amen.)

>

> Best to all,

> Elchanan

>

> PS: I post most of my posts in the PathOfHealth Group.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Oh Elchanan now you make me feel bad! You are very correct with all you ahve

said here. I do have compassion for him I guess I was frustrated at caregivers

but you are correct that maybe that is all they knew to do also. Sorry you are

disappointed.

 

Elchanan <Elchanan wrote: Greetings everyone,

 

I've been scanning our recent dialog about the 1000-pound man and related

matters, the " poll " designed to assign blame to someone, and so forth. And

with each passing post, I've felt pain and disappointment, a sort of

" sinking feeling " . I have a deeply felt desire for compassion and connection

with and among people, and this entire conversation, with the exception of

one single post (among literally dozens), has not come even close to serving

this desire of mine.

 

I actually attempted to share some thoughts several days ago, in post

#31054, entitled " A Matter of Choice ... Or Not? (Subconsciously Driven

Behavior) " . No one seemed to pick up on any of the ideas I shared there,

perhaps because I did not use the thread names from the conversation

(referencing the poll and the TV show). So I'll try again here, this time

from a different perspective.

 

I disagree ... painfully disagree ... with almost everything everyone has

said throughout the entire conversation. The one exception, mentioned above,

is post #31301, by Kerri Myers, where Kerri wrote, in part:

 

" Maybe for the first time in a long time, somebody believed in this man....

there is a lot to be said for someone believing that even at 1000 pounds,

you can lose the weight you need to live a healthy lifestyle. Maybe it just

took that encouragement, and that chance- along with the support of

nutritionists, trainers, doctors, friends and family- to help him commit to

it. "

 

From my own perspective, every other post I recall reading in this

conversation has arisen from a place of violence, a place of blaming ... a

place of judgment. The entire thread about the " poll " was initiated with the

express purpose of assigning blame ... is it this man, the caretaker ...

who?

 

Who are we, anyway?

 

By this I mean, whom do we CHOOSE to become? What is the content of our

character? What shall we say of those about whom we know absolutely nothing

at all, nothing of their experience, their pain, their fear, their hopes,

their despair? What would we have others say of us one day when, in some

circumstance we do not presently envision, the tables are turned?

 

I have never met a human who carries out 100% of his/her expressed

intentions ... myself included, by all means. We all assert, at times,

certain choices ... expressed perhaps as goals, values, specific commitments

to do things ... then do not follow through. Do we really do this entirely

out of unfettered free will, out of wide-open, unimpaired choice?

 

That seems to be the implication of this conversation. Yet for me, the

answer is a resounding " no " .

 

We live in a world that values cognition (intellect), " reason " , " critical

thinking " , and so forth. I love all these things ... heaven only knows, my

posts are filled with information, abstract ideas, lines of reasoning, and

the like. Yet, at the same time, I make every effort to avoid judging the

people (as opposed to the ideas or the information). Even in the presence of

some rather noisy criticism, I have remained calm in my presence in this

group ... when I had enough information " on people " to level them, quite

frankly, had I wished to. But such behavior is unbecoming, it would have

been tragic and violent expression of my own needs for recognition, or

fairness, or whatever. And fortunately, most of the time I am able to find

more constructive means for meeting such needs of mine. This has not always

been so, and for this I feel deeply grateful.

 

Let's consider, for a few moments, this 1000-pound man. I have not met him,

I have not watched any TV show about him, I have barely read the

descriptions provided in the discussion here ... I find it too painful to

read what people are saying. So everything I shall say next comes from

within me ... it is not " true " or " false " , not " correct " or " incorrect " , not

" right " or " wrong " . I'm simply sharing some of my own observations,

feelings, and desires.

 

What do we know of his self-esteem? Did his parents, or teachers, or

religious leaders, or others teach him that he is a valuable, worthwhile

human? Did they teach him self-love and self-respect? Did they guide him

into kind, constructive relationships with other people?

 

Honestly, I have no earthly idea ... and I suspect that the answer to every

one of these questions is " no " .

 

Perhaps this man feels so afraid of connecting with other people, even of

being in their presence, that he is spending his life (until recently)

building the biggest, thickest wall of armor between himself and the world

that he can construct.

 

Perhaps this man has never experienced genuine friendship ... and/or perhaps

he has experienced great betrayal in his life. Perhaps, somewhere along the

way, somewhere inside, he decided that food is his best, his only friend.

Perhaps he did what he did simply to survive, for awhile at least, and then

completely lost any sort of control.

 

Have we no compassion for this man? Can we not express simple kindness ...

even without knowing all the details, even if he has really done this to

himself, all by himself (which I seriously doubt)?

 

And what of those caregivers? Who are they? What instructions have they been

given, and by whom? What resources are available to them? What is their

frame of reference ... their belief system, about health and disease, about

personal choice and about support and encouragement?

 

Obviously, once again, I have no earthly idea how to answer any of these

questions. But I do suspect that these people are following some sort of

instructions ... perhaps what they learned from their parents, teachers,

doctors ... who knows.

 

We humans are a curious blend of harmony and discord. Whenever our

programming ... that which our subconscious mind knows is " true " ...

reasonably agrees with our consciously chosen values, beliefs, goals, etc.,

we tend to move forward with ease and grace. However, whenever our

subconscious mind holds beliefs that conflict with our consciously chosen

values, beliefs, goals, etc., then our subconscious mind almost always

prevails ... we act and speak differently from our expressed intentions, and

we are left feeling quite helpless, powerless, etc. Why did we DO that? Why

did we NOT do that? We have no earthly idea. And if this is true for us,

then why not for this man, or for any man, woman, or child?

 

Let's let go of our judgments ... ALL of our judgments ... about ourselves,

one another, people in general. Let us abandon forever any notion of blame,

" responsibility " (to the extent this means assigning blame, as in this

conversation), right/wrong, good/bad, and so forth. And in their place, let

us seek connection, understanding, compassion ... those things that do not

arise primarily through our cognition, but rather from a much deeper place

within us.

 

Above all, let's really give some conscious thought to who we wish to

become.

 

Best to all,

Elchanan

 

PS: I post most of my posts in the PathOfHealth Group.