Updating our understanding about dogs ...CORRECTLY !!!

[Guest guest]

I write this for the sake of those who may not have the knowledge to fully

get what is said here. Belinda, what you say, below, is simply false. The

genetic codes are very similar, just as the codes of bonobos, chimpanzees,

and gorillas are quite similar to those of humans. But they are not

identical, and the differences are significant enough to have a profound

influence upon their entire biology.

 

As I wrote moments ago, there are roughly 260 species in the taxonomical

family " Carnivora " , ranging from true carnivores (e.g., wolves) to total

herbivores (e.g., pandas).

 

Anyone here can verify this classification on hundreds of Web sites, whose

sponsors include universities, corporations, individuals ... you name it.

 

Best,

Elchanan

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Belinda

Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:30 PM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re: Updating our understanding about dogs (WAS: raw for

pets)

 

 

Genetically the wolf and dog are the same species. So far there are no

genetic test to distinguish between a dog and a wolf.

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

No sir. It is NOT false. There is no way(at this time) to

genetically tell the difference in a dog and a wolf OR to tell how

much wolf or dog is in a wolf/dog cross. The wolf dog rescue folks

deal with this all the time. Some want to ban owning wolves and

wolf/dogs. The problem is, they can't always tell for sure if it is

a wolf or a wolf cross. Or how much wolf to dog. Because there are

still breeds of dogs that look just like wolves. Without the genetic

testing they cannot tell. Just like they can't tell a pit bull dog

from other breeds or mixes that look like them.

 

Do gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos, etc. cross breed naturally? Can

they cross breed with human intervention (like horses and donkeys) if

they are crossed, can their offspring reproduce?

 

I will attempt to find links/references for it if you want. (I have

lost most of links on the subject)

But I doubt anyone here really cares one way or another.

 

We have already been firmley chastised for off topic stuff.

 

Besides. Anyone can look the info up themselves. Try stuff like

canis lupis, dog and wolf, wolf, wolfdog, wolf hybred etc. The raw

feeding type folks usually have links to info on this topic too.

 

 

Belinda

 

 

> I write this for the sake of those who may not have the knowledge

to fully

> get what is said here. Belinda, what you say, below, is simply

false. The

> genetic codes are very similar, just as the codes of bonobos,

chimpanzees,

> and gorillas are quite similar to those of humans. But they are not

> identical, and the differences are significant enough to have a

profound

> influence upon their entire biology.

>

> As I wrote moments ago, there are roughly 260 species in the

taxonomical

> family " Carnivora " , ranging from true carnivores (e.g., wolves) to

total

> herbivores (e.g., pandas).

>

> Anyone here can verify this classification on hundreds of Web

sites, whose

> sponsors include universities, corporations, individuals ... you

name it.

>

> Best,

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> rawfood [rawfood ] On

Behalf Of

> Belinda

> Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:30 PM

> rawfood

> [Raw Food] Re: Updating our understanding about dogs (WAS:

raw for

> pets)

>

>

> Genetically the wolf and dog are the same species. So far there are

no

> genetic test to distinguish between a dog and a wolf.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

risking the off topic flame...(im such the rebel)...

 

humans have the same DNA but no one can deny the variances..physical

and *nutritional*....

 

skulls btwn africans and asians are markedly different from each other

and caucasians...but under a microscope theres no difference..

 

is this how it is with dogs and wolves maybe?

 

anna

 

On 6/27/07, Belinda <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> No sir. It is NOT false. There is no way(at this time) to

> genetically tell the difference in a dog and a wolf OR to tell how

> much wolf or dog is in a wolf/dog cross. The wolf dog rescue folks

> deal with this all the time. Some want to ban owning wolves and

> wolf/dogs. The problem is, they can't always tell for sure if it is

> a wolf or a wolf cross. Or how much wolf to dog. Because there are

> still breeds of dogs that look just like wolves. Without the genetic

> testing they cannot tell. Just like they can't tell a pit bull dog

> from other breeds or mixes that look like them.

>

> Do gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos, etc. cross breed naturally? Can

> they cross breed with human intervention (like horses and donkeys) if

> they are crossed, can their offspring reproduce?

>

> I will attempt to find links/references for it if you want. (I have

> lost most of links on the subject)

> But I doubt anyone here really cares one way or another.

>

> We have already been firmley chastised for off topic stuff.

>

> Besides. Anyone can look the info up themselves. Try stuff like

> canis lupis, dog and wolf, wolf, wolfdog, wolf hybred etc. The raw

> feeding type folks usually have links to info on this topic too.

>

>

> Belinda

>

>

> > I write this for the sake of those who may not have the knowledge

> to fully

> > get what is said here. Belinda, what you say, below, is simply

> false. The

> > genetic codes are very similar, just as the codes of bonobos,

> chimpanzees,

> > and gorillas are quite similar to those of humans. But they are not

> > identical, and the differences are significant enough to have a

> profound

> > influence upon their entire biology.

> >

> > As I wrote moments ago, there are roughly 260 species in the

> taxonomical

> > family " Carnivora " , ranging from true carnivores (e.g., wolves) to

> total

> > herbivores (e.g., pandas).

> >

> > Anyone here can verify this classification on hundreds of Web

> sites, whose

> > sponsors include universities, corporations, individuals ... you

> name it.

> >

> > Best,

> > Elchanan

> > _____

> >

> > rawfood [rawfood ] On

> Behalf Of

> > Belinda

> > Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:30 PM

> > rawfood

> > [Raw Food] Re: Updating our understanding about dogs (WAS:

> raw for

> > pets)

> >

> >

> > Genetically the wolf and dog are the same species. So far there are

> no

> > genetic test to distinguish between a dog and a wolf.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

>There is no way(at this time) to genetically tell the difference in a

>dog and a wolf OR to tell how much wolf or dog is in a wolf/dog >cross.

 

>Without the genetic testing they cannot tell.

 

With all due respect, did you not just contradict yourself, Belinda?

I mean to only clarify.

 

Janet

 

rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN wrote:

>

> No sir. It is NOT false. There is no way(at this time) to

> genetically tell the difference in a dog and a wolf OR to tell how

> much wolf or dog is in a wolf/dog cross. The wolf dog rescue folks

> deal with this all the time. Some want to ban owning wolves and

> wolf/dogs. The problem is, they can't always tell for sure if it is

> a wolf or a wolf cross. Or how much wolf to dog. Because there are

> still breeds of dogs that look just like wolves. Without the genetic

> testing they cannot tell. Just like they can't tell a pit bull dog

> from other breeds or mixes that look like them.

>

> Do gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos, etc. cross breed naturally? Can

> they cross breed with human intervention (like horses and donkeys) if

> they are crossed, can their offspring reproduce?

>

> I will attempt to find links/references for it if you want. (I have

> lost most of links on the subject)

> But I doubt anyone here really cares one way or another.

>

> We have already been firmley chastised for off topic stuff.

>

> Besides. Anyone can look the info up themselves. Try stuff like

> canis lupis, dog and wolf, wolf, wolfdog, wolf hybred etc. The raw

> feeding type folks usually have links to info on this topic too.

>

>

> Belinda

>

>

> > I write this for the sake of those who may not have the knowledge

> to fully

> > get what is said here. Belinda, what you say, below, is simply

> false. The

> > genetic codes are very similar, just as the codes of bonobos,

> chimpanzees,

> > and gorillas are quite similar to those of humans. But they are not

> > identical, and the differences are significant enough to have a

> profound

> > influence upon their entire biology.

> >

> > As I wrote moments ago, there are roughly 260 species in the

> taxonomical

> > family " Carnivora " , ranging from true carnivores (e.g., wolves) to

> total

> > herbivores (e.g., pandas).

> >

> > Anyone here can verify this classification on hundreds of Web

> sites, whose

> > sponsors include universities, corporations, individuals ... you

> name it.

> >

> > Best,

> > Elchanan

> > _____

> >

> > rawfood [rawfood ] On

> Behalf Of

> > Belinda

> > Wednesday, June 27, 2007 1:30 PM

> > rawfood

> > [Raw Food] Re: Updating our understanding about dogs (WAS:

> raw for

> > pets)

> >

> >

> > Genetically the wolf and dog are the same species. So far there are

> no

> > genetic test to distinguish between a dog and a wolf.

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I am not sure where the contradiction is here.

 

Belinda

 

 

> >There is no way(at this time) to genetically tell the difference

in a

> >dog and a wolf OR to tell how much wolf or dog is in a wolf/dog

>cross.

>

> >Without the genetic testing they cannot tell.

>

> With all due respect, did you not just contradict yourself,

Belinda?

> I mean to only clarify.

>

> Janet

>

> rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN@> wrote:

> >

> > No sir. It is NOT false. There is no way(at this time) to

> > genetically tell the difference in a dog and a wolf OR to tell

how

> > much wolf or dog is in a wolf/dog cross. The wolf dog rescue

folks

> > deal with this all the time. Some want to ban owning wolves and

> > wolf/dogs. The problem is, they can't always tell for sure if it

is

> > a wolf or a wolf cross. Or how much wolf to dog. Because there

are

> > still breeds of dogs that look just like wolves. Without the

genetic

> > testing they cannot tell. Just like they can't tell a pit bull

dog

> > from other breeds or mixes that look like them.

> >

> > Do gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos, etc. cross breed naturally?

Can

> > they cross breed with human intervention (like horses and

donkeys) if

> > they are crossed, can their offspring reproduce?

> >

> > I will attempt to find links/references for it if you want. (I

have

> > lost most of links on the subject)

> > But I doubt anyone here really cares one way or another.

> >

> > We have already been firmley chastised for off topic stuff.

> >

> > Besides. Anyone can look the info up themselves. Try stuff like

> > canis lupis, dog and wolf, wolf, wolfdog, wolf hybred etc. The

raw

> > feeding type folks usually have links to info on this topic too.

> >

> >

> > Belinda

[Guest guest]

-

Janet FitzGerald

Belinda wrote:

>>There is no way(at this time) to genetically tell the difference in a

>>dog and a wolf OR to tell how much wolf or dog is in a wolf/dog >cross.

 

>>Without the genetic testing they cannot tell.

 

>With all due respect, did you not just contradict yourself, Belinda?

I mean to only clarify.

 

Janet, I think Belinda is saying they currently cannot tell the difference,

as there is not genetic test for it (or not a conclusive one showing

differences, at least). There is an implication that -with- genetic testing

they could discern between the two, but currently they cannot as the test

isn't capable of it. Or am I talking (and reading) round in circles?

 

Caron

[Guest guest]

Yes, Caron, this is what I was attempting to say.

Perhaps I should quote from someone that is more educated than I.

I found this digging through some of my info. I have lost my links

from years ago when I was researching the differences in dogs and

wolves. I too thought they were very different with different needs.

But I was wrong. At that time I searched everything on the internet

that would tell me what El tries to say. I could find nothing that

was credible stating this. Only found this info on websites of

people that thought feeding raw meat and bones to be cruel and

dangerous. It gets to be a very heated discussion on canine food and

nutrition boards about feeding a BARF or similar diet, whether or not

dogs are able to eat this way safely.

 

So here it is. A quote from " Molecular Evolution of the Dog Family "

by Rober K. Wayne

 

The Evolution of the Domestic Dog.

 

" A limited mtDNA restriction fragment analysis of seven dog breeds

and 26 gray wolf population from different locations around the world

has shown the genotypes of dogs and wolves are either identical or

differ by the loss or gain of only one or two restriction sites,

differing at most 0.2% of mtDNA sequence. Dogs are gray wolves,

despite their diversity in size and proportion, the wide variation in

their adult morphology probably results from simple changes in

developement. "

 

There are bibliography references in this quote if anyone is

interested.

 

There are also tons more articles, publications, on the web that say

pretty much the same thing.

Encylopedias also agree with this.

 

Both dog people and wolf, wolf/dog folks would love for their to be a

scientific way to tell the differences in not only wolves and dogs,

but between breeds.

 

And maybe, one day there will be. Science is an ever changing thing.

 

Belinda

 

 

 

 

 

> Belinda wrote:

> >>There is no way(at this time) to genetically tell the difference

in a

> >>dog and a wolf OR to tell how much wolf or dog is in a wolf/dog

>cross.

>

> >>Without the genetic testing they cannot tell.

>

> >With all due respect, did you not just contradict yourself,

Belinda?

> I mean to only clarify.

>

> Janet, I think Belinda is saying they currently cannot tell the

difference,

> as there is not genetic test for it (or not a conclusive one

showing

> differences, at least). There is an implication that -with- genetic

testing

> they could discern between the two, but currently they cannot as

the test

> isn't capable of it. Or am I talking (and reading) round in circles?

>

> Caron

>