Distinguishing Cause-And-Effect; Distinguishing Problems vs. Symptoms; Fundamental Beliefs and Choices (WAS: hat is food for our species? (WAS: Garlic Redux)

[Guest guest]

Belinda, what you write below is merely flawed logic, nothing more. For more

insight, Google on " propositional logic " . Or if you prefer, I can explain

the basics here. What you say does not, in fact, follow from what I say ...

that all majority opinions are wrong does not say anything whatsoever about

minority opinions.

 

Caron, majority opinions existed long before the existence of any modern or

" popular " media. For a fascinating case study, learn about the history of

ancient Athens from about 430-404 BCE, the period during which the

democracy-turned-empire imploded and destroyed itself almost completely,

culminating, among other things, in a death sentence for Socrates.

 

Democracy = mob rule, this is well understood by those in power today. They

are teaching that we live in a democracy ... yet our founders NEVER intended

anything of the kind. This was written in the training manuals for officers

in the U.S. military, up to the advent of the socialist period under

Franklin Roosevelt. He had all those manuals destroyed.

 

Best,

Elchanan

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Caron

Thursday, June 28, 2007 4:48 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Re: Distinguishing Cause-And-Effect; Distinguishing

Problems vs. Symptoms; Fundamental Beliefs and Choices (WAS: hat is food for

our species? (WAS: Garlic Redux)

 

 

..

 

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=5520395/grpspId=1705015482/msgId

=32267/stime=1183074586/nc1=3848432/nc2=4025291/nc3=4699087> Belinda

>You keep saying all majority opinions are wrong. So I guess that

makes minority opinions correct???? Or perhaps you equate majority

opinions with the " herd mentality " .

___

Majority opinions come from popular media - everyone hears that view, so

they believe it to be true.

Caron

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

-

Elchanan

>Caron, majority opinions existed long before the existence of any modern or

" popular " media. For a fascinating case study, learn about the history of

ancient Athens from about 430-404 BCE, the period during which the

democracy-turned-empire imploded and destroyed itself almost completely,

culminating, among other things, in a death sentence for Socrates.

 

Strangely, I've never studied much history - I skipped years of school and

seemed to land just on the other side of their history semester. Though I

did do a semester of biblical history, which I remember only vaguely. I have

done a bit of study on my own, but science fascinated me more. I've added

history to my list of things to study though.

 

>Democracy = mob rule, this is well understood by those in power today. They

are teaching that we live in a democracy ... yet our founders NEVER intended

anything of the kind. This was written in the training manuals for officers

in the U.S. military, up to the advent of the socialist period under

Franklin Roosevelt. He had all those manuals destroyed.

 

I know even less about american history, but perhaps this is why history has

never really got me hooked - it's so easily rewritten!

 

Caron

[Guest guest]

rawfood , " Caron " <carongroups wrote:

 

[...]

 

> You will probably never find any information about raw food in the

New York

> Times. Why? Because it's sponsored by companies who want to sell

their

> products - medications, packaged foods, cookware, or whatever.

There's

> limited market for raw food accessories, besides farmers, a few

kitchen

> appliances, and those selling books explaining the whole thing. These

> entities are far smaller and thus less financially able to pay for

the

> advertising, and thus the information that's published.

 

[...]

 

Just to be a smart ass.

 

http://travel2.nytimes.com/2006/04/02/travel/02heads.html

 

 

-Erin

http://www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

[Guest guest]

-

Erin

>Just to be a smart ass.

 

hehe that's great, thanks Erin!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks distinctly like a hard-boiled egg in

the top photo..

 

Caron

[Guest guest]

>

> Majority opinions come from popular media - everyone hears that

view, so

> they believe it to be true. -IF- they hear another view from

somewhere, it's

> considered outlandish or untrue, because " science says... " whatever

was

> published in a place where the majority of people will read it -

popular

> press (or tv and radio for an auditory medium).

 

 

Agreed. But I just don't think all majority opinions are wrong nor

minority opinions correct.

I am remembering a conversation with another " minority thinker " in

which when he was ask his opinion of " whatever happend to the

dinasours? " , his answer " there never were any dinasours. Scientist

just made all that up " . There were many others that agreed with him.

 

 

Another idea from minority thinkers, " man never walked on the moon.

The government is trying to fool everybody "

 

And there are tons of other such thinking. It does make for

interesting conversation though. )

 

 

 

> Hence why I tend to listen to Elchanan, because he has the same

thirst for

> knowledge that I do, and seems to base his decisions on the same

basic

> facts, and I think he already looks cool at parties ;o)

 

 

Well eating this way DOES get you a lot of attention at social

gatherings, that is for sure.

 

 

Belinda

[Guest guest]

You are so right about this. And kids in school are such victims.

The meds they give those kids for ADHD is really scary.

 

And the fever thing? I have a testimony to this. My pediatrican

always told me to never treat my childrens fever unless it got above

101 or 102. A man of few words, he never told me why. Of course,

the grandmas went nuts over this and insisted that they were to be

given tylenol for any fever at all.

In studying holistic health, I discovered that the fever is the

bodies way of killing the germ that is causing it.

 

Now. My three children got chicken pox. My son was 5 and got them

first. About 2 weeks later, one of my 3 year old twin girls began to

break out with them, and the other 3 year old about a week later.

 

My son ran the average temp for chicken pox. Usually around 102 to

103 at its highest. I did treat with tylenol for his comfort. He

was so miserable and it helped him to rest. His pox breakout was

average. Average amount and average itching. Average length of time

to get over it.

 

My first daughter ran a temp of no higher than 101. Most of the time

it was 99 or 100. This child had the most pox and suffered the most

discomfort because of them. I was constantly putting her in cool

water, fanning her off and doing all I could to help her get relief.

She also took the longest to get over them.

 

Now my last child and 2nd daughter, ran a HUGE fever. It reached

105. She did not even know where she was. Just moaned and groaned

and trembled. I was home alone with her at the time, my dh was due

home from work shortly after midnight.

So I gave her tylenol, which she immediately threw up. I debated

going to the imergency room, but already knew what they would do to

bring down the fever. And I had seen my mom do the same for my

brother and I. So I took my daughter to the bathroom and laid her in

the tub in some shallow tepid water to help cool her down a bit.

Her body just kept heating the water up, and I had to keep cooling it

off. Not cold, just cooler than her body.

Eventually she began to come around, cry, shake and shiver. I took

her out and dried her off and carried her back to the couch. I took

her temp and it was down to 104. I gave her tylenol and she threw it

up. So I continued with cool rags until I got it down to 103. She

kept some tylenol down and went to sleep. The temp stayed between

102 and 103 for most of the night.

 

Now, by morning, this kid, woke up, got off the couch and wanted some

apple juice. She wanted to eat and she wanted to play. Her temp was

normal. And what few pox that had just started to break out, began

to dry up.

 

Because her temp had been so dangoursly high, I took her to her

docotor to make sure something else was not wrong with her. I mean I

never heard of a kid that chicken pox caused such a high temp.

 

The doctor said she was fine and the high temp and duration of the

temp would likely kill the chicken pox virus. And it did, she her

pox continued to heal and she was pretty much well in less than a

week.

 

I still wonder why her body reacted so harshley to the pox and her

twin's body just endured it.

 

So in my experiance. Don't be too quick to treat a fever. It just

might shorten the duration of your illness.

 

 

Belinda

 

 

 

> >Your example about taking pain meds goes to the heart of the

matter, it's a

> perfect example, from my perspective. Yes, you can indeed take

something to

> block your symptoms and keep on doing whatever it is you are doing.

But at

> some point in time, this will fail, and you will have so harmed

yourself

> that you won't easily recover. We call that point by various

names ... heart

> attack, stroke, cancer, emotional breakdown, and so forth.

>

> Another thing that made sense to me from the moment I heard it

(from you, Elchanan, I believe it was).

>

> When I was a child, I was told that " pain is the body's way of

telling you to stop " . For example, the pain we feel when we touch

something hot, causes us to let it go or stop touching it, otherwise

severe burns would result. The pain of a torn muscle resulting from

too much of the wrong sort of movement, causes us to stop that

movement, to prevent further damage, and let the body heal itself. A

fever helps the body fight infection.

>

> It's been very confusing for me ever since, when I've been told to

take panadol (tylenol) to reduce a fever, which then means

antibiotics are required to beat the infection. Or when athletes take

that torn muscle and strap it and brace it tightly to prevent pain,

then go straight back to training, without allowing it time to heal.

I've done this myself - swam at state with a torn cartilage in my

knee..took years before I could walk properly again, and even now it

twinges. The physio made it worse, too.

>

> It's also why I've said a flat-out NO to any meds pushed on me by a

doctor, when all they guarentee is that it will not improve my

condition, and may prevent it from getting worse, but it has a list

of side effects longer than my arm. If I have blood sugar problems,

and take a medication for that, that results in me being constipated,

having nausea and heartburn, possible headaches and dizziness, I then

have a whole other range of meds to take - laxitives, antacids,

painkillers, and possibly blood pressure meds...all of which have

their own side effects! My aunt says she's " fifty five and needs the

pills to stay alive " - if you need pills to stay alive, you're not

really alive.

>

> Caron

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for clarifying (sorta clarifying).

I just don't really understand the " majority is wrong " thing. Though

I often feel the same way as I believe and live the biggest

percentage of my life in the minority way of thinking.

My children will more than confirm that. LOL. It caused many

conflicts between myself and them when they were growing up. None of

my friends raised their kids the way we did. They all gave in to the

peer pressure, just like their children did. And sadley the children

often paid the price as time went on. (remembering one of my girls'

friends that killed herself shortly after graduation, sigh) Of

course now, looking back they understand and appreciate it. The know

now that it was done out of love and concern for them. Not because

we wanted to be kill joy. It would have been so much easer to have

caved under the peer pressure and went with the herd. Even parents

have peer pressure. I have always been seen as " hard " on my kids.

Especially when I made them all get a job at 16 if they wanted a

car. Many in society seems to think this is child abuse for some

reason.

 

And then there are other ways I live that put me in the minority

too. And viewd as " strange " by many. But so be it. In the end, I

don't have to answer to them anyway.

 

 

Belinda

 

 

 

 

> Belinda, what you write below is merely flawed logic, nothing more.

For more

> insight, Google on " propositional logic " . Or if you prefer, I can

explain

> the basics here. What you say does not, in fact, follow from what I

say ...

> that all majority opinions are wrong does not say anything

whatsoever about

> minority opinions.

>

> Caron, majority opinions existed long before the existence of any

modern or

> " popular " media. For a fascinating case study, learn about the

history of

> ancient Athens from about 430-404 BCE, the period during which the

> democracy-turned-empire imploded and destroyed itself almost

completely,

> culminating, among other things, in a death sentence for Socrates.

>

> Democracy = mob rule, this is well understood by those in power

today. They

> are teaching that we live in a democracy ... yet our founders NEVER

intended

> anything of the kind. This was written in the training manuals for

officers

> in the U.S. military, up to the advent of the socialist period under

> Franklin Roosevelt. He had all those manuals destroyed.

>

> Best,

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> rawfood [rawfood ] On

Behalf Of

> Caron

> Thursday, June 28, 2007 4:48 PM

> rawfood

> Re: [Raw Food] Re: Distinguishing Cause-And-Effect;

Distinguishing

> Problems vs. Symptoms; Fundamental Beliefs and Choices (WAS: hat is

food for

> our species? (WAS: Garlic Redux)

>

>

> .

>

> <http://geo./serv?

s=97359714/grpId=5520395/grpspId=1705015482/msgId

> =32267/stime=1183074586/nc1=3848432/nc2=4025291/nc3=4699087>

Belinda

> >You keep saying all majority opinions are wrong. So I guess that

> makes minority opinions correct???? Or perhaps you equate majority

> opinions with the " herd mentality " .

> ___

> Majority opinions come from popular media - everyone hears that

view, so

> they believe it to be true.

> Caron

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Read The Republic, by Plato.

 

Elchanan

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Belinda

Friday, June 29, 2007 3:49 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re: Distinguishing Cause-And-Effect; Distinguishing

Problems vs. Symptoms; Fundamental Beliefs and Choices (WAS: hat is food for

our species? (WAS: Garlic Redux)

 

 

Thanks for clarifying (sorta clarifying).

I just don't really understand the " majority is wrong " thing.

 

<<< snip >>>

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Why?

 

Belinda

 

> Read The Republic, by Plato.

>

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> rawfood [rawfood ] On

Behalf Of

> Belinda

> Friday, June 29, 2007 3:49 AM

> rawfood

> [Raw Food] Re: Distinguishing Cause-And-Effect;

Distinguishing

> Problems vs. Symptoms; Fundamental Beliefs and Choices (WAS: hat is

food for

> our species? (WAS: Garlic Redux)

>

>

> Thanks for clarifying (sorta clarifying).

> I just don't really understand the " majority is wrong " thing.

>

> <<< snip >>>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The entire conception of " republic " arises from Plato's incredibly

perceptive understanding about majorities. His experience with the rise and

implosion of the Athenian democracy gave him insights into such matters as

had not been expressed by any other author in history, of whom I am aware.

America's founders comprehended Plato's teachings and incorporated many of

his ideas into our constitutional republic ... the first of its know in

human history, to my knowledge.

 

If you wish to comprehend the problems inherent in majority opinions, and

the causes of the those problems, read Plato. If you wish to comprehend the

nature of the American constitution, read, among other things, Plato. And if

you just plain wish to be well-educated, then OF COURSE, read Plato!!!

 

Best,

Elchanan

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Belinda

Friday, June 29, 2007 9:17 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re: Distinguishing Cause-And-Effect; Distinguishing

Problems vs. Symptoms; Fundamental Beliefs and Choices (WAS: hat is food for

our species? (WAS: Garlic Redux)

 

 

..

 

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=5520395/grpspId=1705015482/msgId

=32323/stime=1183133850/nc1=3848429/nc2=4699085/nc3=4025304> Why?

 

Belinda

 

> Read The Republic, by Plato.

>

> Elchanan

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Thanks )

 

Belinda

 

 

> The entire conception of " republic " arises from Plato's incredibly

> perceptive understanding about majorities. His experience with the

rise and

> implosion of the Athenian democracy gave him insights into such

matters as

> had not been expressed by any other author in history, of whom I am

aware.

> America's founders comprehended Plato's teachings and incorporated

many of

> his ideas into our constitutional republic ... the first of its

know in

> human history, to my knowledge.

>

> If you wish to comprehend the problems inherent in majority

opinions, and

> the causes of the those problems, read Plato. If you wish to

comprehend the

> nature of the American constitution, read, among other things,

Plato. And if

> you just plain wish to be well-educated, then OF COURSE, read

Plato!!!

>

> Best,

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> rawfood [rawfood ] On

Behalf Of

> Belinda

> Friday, June 29, 2007 9:17 AM

> rawfood

> [Raw Food] Re: Distinguishing Cause-And-Effect;

Distinguishing

> Problems vs. Symptoms; Fundamental Beliefs and Choices (WAS: hat is

food for

> our species? (WAS: Garlic Redux)

>

>

> .

>

> <http://geo./serv?

s=97359714/grpId=5520395/grpspId=1705015482/msgId

> =32323/stime=1183133850/nc1=3848429/nc2=4699085/nc3=4025304> Why?

>

> Belinda

>

> > Read The Republic, by Plato.

> >

> > Elchanan

>

>

>