Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 > The point is that a politician admitting an affair in Britain would not be > forced to resign immediately because people are willing to accept that a > person's private life is just that, and it does not affect their ability to > do their job (though many other factors obviously do, such as donors). That's really sad isn't it? How can people believe that if a person deceives in one part of their life they will be honest in another? Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 Hi Jo, >That's really sad isn't it? How can people believe that if a person >deceives in one part of their life they will be honest in another? Are you really telling me at you've never lied? Ever? Or that people are not capable of learning from their mistakes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 > Are you really telling me at you've never lied? Ever? Or that people are > not capable of learning from their mistakes? Come on, Michael - a " mistake " !! You'll be telling us next that you can't blame men for having affairs because women are temptresses or some such nonsense. A " mistake " is something which occurs through a brief lapse of concentration. You don't have affairs through brief lapses of concentration, you go looking for them. And, incidentally, I have never lied to the people I love. BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 It is quite possible for people to make mistakes and to learn from them. Michael is right. Janey > Are you really telling me at you've never lied? Ever? Or that people are> not capable of learning from their mistakes?Come on, Michael - a "mistake"!! You'll be telling us next that you can'tblame men for having affairs because women are temptresses or some suchnonsense. A "mistake" is something which occurs through a brief lapse ofconcentration. You don't have affairs through brief lapses of concentration,you go looking for them. And, incidentally, I have never lied to the peopleI love.BBPeter---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 > Are you really telling me at you've never lied? Ever? I did tell Laura and Peter that there was Santa Claus. I have told people that their clothes are nice when maybe I don't think they are. I have told lies to help people feel better, but I have not told lies for any personal gain at the expense of another. I have not broken any oaths. If I suddenly found myself out of love with Colin (most unlikely) I would finish our relationship before I started looking for other people to form relationships with. This is the way I think people should behave if they are to call themselves honest. Or that people are > not capable of learning from their mistakes? Having extra-marital affairs cannot be called mistakes. If you are happy with your partner you are not looking for sex with others. If you are not happy with your partner you should finish with them before looking for others. The people who do not finish their original relationship are just hedging their bets, which is not an honourable thing to do. It shows that the only person they care for is themselves. Jo > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 You and Michael are wrong. Jo - Janey Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:34 PM Re: Honesty? It is quite possible for people to make mistakes and to learn from them. Michael is right. Janey > Are you really telling me at you've never lied? Ever? Or that people are> not capable of learning from their mistakes?Come on, Michael - a "mistake"!! You'll be telling us next that you can'tblame men for having affairs because women are temptresses or some suchnonsense. A "mistake" is something which occurs through a brief lapse ofconcentration. You don't have affairs through brief lapses of concentration,you go looking for them. And, incidentally, I have never lied to the peopleI love.BBPeter---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 This is my final reply so I will answer both messages in one: >You are completely misunderstanding the point - it is not a matter of >forgiveness - it is a matter of trust. That doesn't inspire trust, and I >don't trust people who behave in that way. I'm surprised that you do. I have no interest in posting my personal details but I've been in that type of situation, the one lied to, so yes, I know what it's like, how it hurts, and so I am fully aware of how if affects trust. It also means I'm in a position where I know something of what it's like for the other person, how they can be hurt by it too. What you seem to misunderstand is that people are different, the balance between emotion and rationality are different. Unless you happen to be the only person in the world who can give a rational explanation of love then I don't see how you can give a reasonable condemnation of how it affects some people. It is far more complicated than the simple black and white line that you paint it to be. And no, that does not make it right nor is it a defense. > A " mistake " is something which occurs through a brief lapse of >concentration. You don't have affairs through brief lapses of concentration, >you go looking for them. We can argue over the semantics of whether " mistake " is the most appropriate word but that doesn't change the fact that someone can can come to regret their actions, realize they were wrong, and not do it again. >And, incidentally, I have never lied to the people I love. What about to people you don't love? I believe Jo's point was that if someone lies in one area of their life, then how can you trust them in any area. I don't see any reason why someone capable of little white lies should be considered incapable of big whopping ones. My only point in writing was to correct the statement that any British politician having an affair would be forced to resign, and have done so. I had no intention in getting into a debate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 >>It is quite possible for people to make mistakes and to learn from >>them. Michael is right. >You and Michael are wrong. Crikey, the most damning indictment of humanity I've ever seen! Humanity incapable from learning from mistakes, it suddenly makes everything seem meaningless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 You have given your reason for putting forward your comments, and my reason is that I can trust a person only if they behave in a certain way. Of course people are different, but that does not mean that I should not state what I think. I am not discussing how it may or may not affect different people I am stating how someone can gain or lose my trust. I do have a right to judge people who are 'in power' over me and 'representing' me. As far as I am concerned it is black and white. You either love someone or you don't. If you love someone why would you betray them? Even you must surely admit that it is easier to trust someone if they have never made a 'mistake' rather than if they have but don't intend to do it again! Jo --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 Actually, I was being sarcastic at Janey's comment that I was wrong, as if she had the final say. ...... but come to think of it, tell me when it has learned from mistakes then? The same 'mistakes' are made over and over and over again. People do not seem to learn from their own mistakes or the mistakes of others. Jo > > >>It is quite possible for people to make mistakes and to learn from > >>them. Michael is right. > >You and Michael are wrong. > > Crikey, the most damning indictment of humanity I've ever seen! Humanity > incapable from learning from mistakes, it suddenly makes everything seem > meaningless. > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 19, 2003 Report Share Posted January 19, 2003 > What about to people you don't love? I believe Jo's point was that if > someone lies in one area of their life, then how can you trust them in any > area. Since I'm not Jo, I'm not quite sure why you feel that her points have any bearing on mine. My point (and I suspect that this is also Jo's point) is that when you love someone, the natural human reaction is to place their needs above the needs of others. Therefore if you claim to love someone, to betray their trust is a somewhat damning indictement of your character. I don't accept that if you lie to someone you have never met automatically means that you will lie to your loved ones. However, if you are the sort of person who lies to your loved ones, then people you've never met are not going to be an issue. > I don't see any reason why someone capable of little white lies > should be considered incapable of big whopping ones. Its a thing called honour. > My only point in writing was to correct the statement that any British > politician having an affair would be forced to resign, and have done so. I > had no intention in getting into a debate. And you have very amply shown how the concept of honour has virtually died in Britain during the past 5 years. BB Peter --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 i certainly hope you were joking jo " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: >You and Michael are wrong. > >Jo > - > Janey > > Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:34 PM > Re: Honesty? > > > > It is quite possible for people to make mistakes and to learn from them. Michael is right. > > Janey > > > > > Are you really telling me at you've never lied? Ever? Or that people are > > not capable of learning from their mistakes? > > Come on, Michael - a " mistake " !! You'll be telling us next that you can't > blame men for having affairs because women are temptresses or some such > nonsense. A " mistake " is something which occurs through a brief lapse of > concentration. You don't have affairs through brief lapses of concentration, > you go looking for them. And, incidentally, I have never lied to the people > I love. > > BB > Peter > > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02 > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 20, 2003 Report Share Posted January 20, 2003 I was being sarcastic because of Janeys short sharp reply that implied she knew best, and that was the end of it. I was reacting the way Janey did. Jo > i certainly hope you were joking jo > > > " Heartwork " <Heartwork wrote: > > >You and Michael are wrong. > > > >Jo > > - > > Janey > > > > Sunday, January 19, 2003 2:34 PM > > Re: Honesty? > > > > > > > > It is quite possible for people to make mistakes and to learn from them. Michael is right. > > > > Janey > > > > > > > > > Are you really telling me at you've never lied? Ever? Or that people are > > > not capable of learning from their mistakes? > > > > Come on, Michael - a " mistake " !! You'll be telling us next that you can't > > blame men for having affairs because women are temptresses or some such > > nonsense. A " mistake " is something which occurs through a brief lapse of > > concentration. You don't have affairs through brief lapses of concentration, > > you go looking for them. And, incidentally, I have never lied to the people > > I love. > > > > BB > > Peter > > > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.435 / Virus Database: 244 - Release 30/12/02 > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hi Jo I was only agreeing with Michael. Didn't mean to give a short sharp reply - just merely typed that I agreed with Michael. No offense meant and no sarcastic reply required. Sorry!!! Janey x I was being sarcastic because of Janeys short sharp reply that implied sheknew best, and that was the end of it. I was reacting the way Janey did.Jo __ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Hi Janey I didn't really take offense, It's good to have you commenting again. Jo - Janey Wednesday, January 22, 2003 7:27 AM Re: Honesty? Hi Jo I was only agreeing with Michael. Didn't mean to give a short sharp reply - just merely typed that I agreed with Michael. No offense meant and no sarcastic reply required. Sorry!!! Janey x I was being sarcastic because of Janeys short sharp reply that implied sheknew best, and that was the end of it. I was reacting the way Janey did.Jo __ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 22, 2003 Report Share Posted January 22, 2003 Thanks Jo! Janey x Hi Janey I didn't really take offense, It's good to have you commenting again. Jo __ IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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