permit me to vent

April 10, 2003

Just when I thought my mother supported my veganism (and maybe she does as

long as she is 800 miles away), she goes and pulls a stunt like this...

My mom, sister, an aunt and a friend came to visit me and see the Cherry

Blossom Festival. My mom and sister thought it would be neat to take a side

trip to Charlottesville, Virginia, to see Monticello, home of third

president Thomas Jefferson. I found a list of veg and veg-friendly

restaurants in C-ville. My mom, however, made it clear that she did not

want to go to a vegetarian restaurant. I asked why. She asked if I would

want to go to an all-meat restaurant. I asked if she didn't like

vegetables. She said she wanted to be able to get the dishes she was

accustomed to, which I translated (mentally, anyway) as wanting dead animals

on the menu. Our hotel was at one end of Charlottesville's pedestrian mall,

but since it was Sunday night, a lot of things were closed. We ended up

eating at some crummy bar-restaurant place.

The next morning, over breakfast at a cute little veg cafe, my mom whined

about how restrictive veganism was. My sister, appointing herself

peacemaker, suggested I relax and go veg. Well, when I'm traveling--which

isn't often--I will not be as vigilant as usual about whether or not the

bread has milk or eggs. I won't eat cheese or an omelet, but I don't spazz

over the ingredients. And I pointed this out. I also made a crack about

her having to have a dead animal on the menu, something I *don't* do unless

someone bashes my veganism. I was so upset, I ended up crying in the

bathroom. If she hadn't bitched about my veganism, I would never have made

that comment.

So onto Monticello. It was dreary and rainy, I might add, but the mansion

was beautiful, and I was delighted to learn that Jefferson ate, in the words

of our tour guide, " a mostly vegetarian diet. " Meaning he ate very little

meat and used it as a condiment. Ironically, the tourist trap restaurant

down the street, where my mom insisted on eating, featured fried chicken,

black eyed peas cooked with some dead pig meat, stewed tomatoes that looked

like vomit (to me), cold green beans, beets (which I hate), and a couple of

mayonnaise-based salads. Namely, nothing I could really eat, not even a

salad (they don't make 'em). The deal about this place is servers in

18th-century costume and tin plates and cups. Yawn. So I ate nothing, and

my mom got upset because I was upset and said she'd made it clear she wasn't

going to eat vegan this weekend. She didn't eat vegan at ALL, except when I

took her to the Ethiopian restaurant, which I genuinely thought she'd like,

and she made clear she didn't.

I mean, I found a restaurant that had a salad bar, because she said she

liked salads. She's a TRAVEL AGENT, for Gaia's sake! She lives in ORLANDO,

FLORIDA! You think she'd be able to smell tourist trap from 10 miles, but I

guess not. I wonder what the point of traveling is if you only want to get

dishes you're " accustomed to. "

I know one thing: I am NEVER making my brownies for her ever again. And I

am NOT visiting her for a long time. Since she only respects me from 800

miles, I think I'll keep it that way.

Has anyone else experienced hostility like this?

Danielle

" You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin

_______________

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April 10, 2003

Hi Danielle,

Sorry to hear about your experience.

> Has anyone else experienced hostility like this?

Thankfully, no. My mother seems to think veganism is a religion, but aside

from that is good about it, and even tries to make vegan meals when I visit.

(Inedible for the most part, but at least she tries.)

Mind you, I do come up against the 'why can't you eat meat just this once'

when out somehwere...I wonder if the problem is that people tend to think of

veganism as a preference along the lines of preferring brown bread over

white, rather than from a more stongly-held belief/opinion, so don't really

understand why you'd object so strongly. I remember when I was a vegetarian

I was accused of being rude when I turned down meat at a meal, as if it was

something I should put up with eating just to be polite, in the same way you

would, um (searches for quick example) brussel sprouts.

John

-

" Danielle Kichler " <veggietart

Thursday, April 10, 2003 12:58 PM

permit me to vent

> Just when I thought my mother supported my veganism (and maybe she does as

> long as she is 800 miles away), she goes and pulls a stunt like this...

>

> My mom, sister, an aunt and a friend came to visit me and see the Cherry

> Blossom Festival. My mom and sister thought it would be neat to take a

side

> trip to Charlottesville, Virginia, to see Monticello, home of third

> president Thomas Jefferson. I found a list of veg and veg-friendly

> restaurants in C-ville. My mom, however, made it clear that she did not

> want to go to a vegetarian restaurant. I asked why. She asked if I would

> want to go to an all-meat restaurant. I asked if she didn't like

> vegetables. She said she wanted to be able to get the dishes she was

> accustomed to, which I translated (mentally, anyway) as wanting dead

animals

> on the menu. Our hotel was at one end of Charlottesville's pedestrian

mall,

> but since it was Sunday night, a lot of things were closed. We ended up

> eating at some crummy bar-restaurant place.

>

> The next morning, over breakfast at a cute little veg cafe, my mom whined

> about how restrictive veganism was. My sister, appointing herself

> peacemaker, suggested I relax and go veg. Well, when I'm traveling--which

> isn't often--I will not be as vigilant as usual about whether or not the

> bread has milk or eggs. I won't eat cheese or an omelet, but I don't

spazz

> over the ingredients. And I pointed this out. I also made a crack about

> her having to have a dead animal on the menu, something I *don't* do

unless

> someone bashes my veganism. I was so upset, I ended up crying in the

> bathroom. If she hadn't bitched about my veganism, I would never have

made

> that comment.

>

> So onto Monticello. It was dreary and rainy, I might add, but the mansion

> was beautiful, and I was delighted to learn that Jefferson ate, in the

words

> of our tour guide, " a mostly vegetarian diet. " Meaning he ate very little

> meat and used it as a condiment. Ironically, the tourist trap restaurant

> down the street, where my mom insisted on eating, featured fried chicken,

> black eyed peas cooked with some dead pig meat, stewed tomatoes that

looked

> like vomit (to me), cold green beans, beets (which I hate), and a couple

of

> mayonnaise-based salads. Namely, nothing I could really eat, not even a

> salad (they don't make 'em). The deal about this place is servers in

> 18th-century costume and tin plates and cups. Yawn. So I ate nothing,

and

> my mom got upset because I was upset and said she'd made it clear she

wasn't

> going to eat vegan this weekend. She didn't eat vegan at ALL, except when

I

> took her to the Ethiopian restaurant, which I genuinely thought she'd

like,

> and she made clear she didn't.

>

> I mean, I found a restaurant that had a salad bar, because she said she

> liked salads. She's a TRAVEL AGENT, for Gaia's sake! She lives in

ORLANDO,

> FLORIDA! You think she'd be able to smell tourist trap from 10 miles, but

I

> guess not. I wonder what the point of traveling is if you only want to

get

> dishes you're " accustomed to. "

>

> I know one thing: I am NEVER making my brownies for her ever again. And

I

> am NOT visiting her for a long time. Since she only respects me from 800

> miles, I think I'll keep it that way.

>

> Has anyone else experienced hostility like this?

>

> Danielle

>

> " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette

Rankin

>

> _______________

> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

>

> To send an email to -

>

April 10, 2003

Hi Danielle

I'm sorry you had such a rotten trip. I'm afraid that your mother seems

extremely selfish. The only thing I can suggest is that you never go on a

trip with her again, unless you take plenty of your own food (nuts, raisin,

flapjacks, bananas etc. ) with you, so that you do not have to worry about

food. You have nothing to lose by writing a letter to your mother stating

how disappointed you are that your feelings mean so little to her and that

you would have expected some consideration from her. Ask her why it was

more important for her to eat all the food she likes rather than the food

you like, and why she could not even try to compromise.

Jo

-

" Danielle Kichler " <veggietart

Thursday, April 10, 2003 12:58 PM

permit me to vent

> Just when I thought my mother supported my veganism (and maybe she does as

> long as she is 800 miles away), she goes and pulls a stunt like this...

>

> My mom, sister, an aunt and a friend came to visit me and see the Cherry

> Blossom Festival. My mom and sister thought it would be neat to take a

side

> trip to Charlottesville, Virginia, to see Monticello, home of third

> president Thomas Jefferson. I found a list of veg and veg-friendly

> restaurants in C-ville. My mom, however, made it clear that she did not

> want to go to a vegetarian restaurant. I asked why. She asked if I would

> want to go to an all-meat restaurant. I asked if she didn't like

> vegetables. She said she wanted to be able to get the dishes she was

> accustomed to, which I translated (mentally, anyway) as wanting dead

animals

> on the menu. Our hotel was at one end of Charlottesville's pedestrian

mall,

> but since it was Sunday night, a lot of things were closed. We ended up

> eating at some crummy bar-restaurant place.

>

> The next morning, over breakfast at a cute little veg cafe, my mom whined

> about how restrictive veganism was. My sister, appointing herself

> peacemaker, suggested I relax and go veg. Well, when I'm traveling--which

> isn't often--I will not be as vigilant as usual about whether or not the

> bread has milk or eggs. I won't eat cheese or an omelet, but I don't

spazz

> over the ingredients. And I pointed this out. I also made a crack about

> her having to have a dead animal on the menu, something I *don't* do

unless

> someone bashes my veganism. I was so upset, I ended up crying in the

> bathroom. If she hadn't bitched about my veganism, I would never have

made

> that comment.

>

> So onto Monticello. It was dreary and rainy, I might add, but the mansion

> was beautiful, and I was delighted to learn that Jefferson ate, in the

words

> of our tour guide, " a mostly vegetarian diet. " Meaning he ate very little

> meat and used it as a condiment. Ironically, the tourist trap restaurant

> down the street, where my mom insisted on eating, featured fried chicken,

> black eyed peas cooked with some dead pig meat, stewed tomatoes that

looked

> like vomit (to me), cold green beans, beets (which I hate), and a couple

of

> mayonnaise-based salads. Namely, nothing I could really eat, not even a

> salad (they don't make 'em). The deal about this place is servers in

> 18th-century costume and tin plates and cups. Yawn. So I ate nothing,

and

> my mom got upset because I was upset and said she'd made it clear she

wasn't

> going to eat vegan this weekend. She didn't eat vegan at ALL, except when

I

> took her to the Ethiopian restaurant, which I genuinely thought she'd

like,

> and she made clear she didn't.

>

> I mean, I found a restaurant that had a salad bar, because she said she

> liked salads. She's a TRAVEL AGENT, for Gaia's sake! She lives in

ORLANDO,

> FLORIDA! You think she'd be able to smell tourist trap from 10 miles, but

I

> guess not. I wonder what the point of traveling is if you only want to

get

> dishes you're " accustomed to. "

>

> I know one thing: I am NEVER making my brownies for her ever again. And

I

> am NOT visiting her for a long time. Since she only respects me from 800

> miles, I think I'll keep it that way.

>

> Has anyone else experienced hostility like this?

>

> Danielle

>

> " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette

Rankin

>

> _______________

> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

>

> To send an email to -

>

April 10, 2003

Hi Danielle

> Has anyone else experienced hostility like this?

Fortunately not within the family. Although there was a very bizarre

circumstance where a group were trying to organise to go out for a meal, and

I suggested we go to a vegetarian restaraunt so there'd be a chance I could

eat something. One pratt came back with " I can't eat vegetarian food " - I

asked him how he had managed to survive without ever eating vegetables!

BB

Peter

---

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April 10, 2003

Yes!! And I'll tell you what happens when I see my parents for the first time in 4 years in a few weeks time for their 50th. I'm so glad my vegan BF is going, he'll be a world of support. I had a lot of hostility about vegetarianism growing up and they haven't seen me since I became vegan. I know what you mean and I felt really bad for you when I read you ended up crying in the bathroom. It's sooo frustrating and I'm happiest living 5000 miles away from my parents! I'd love to bridge the gap a bit and have a relationship with them but it's not just my choice. I don't think I'll be staying in their home (which was never mine) although recently my mum referred to it as my home as she really wants me to stay there. (Uh...) The paintings of hunting scenes with captions like 'Full Cry!' in the dining room do nothing for my digestion or general mood!

xx

Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!

April 11, 2003

ah..

well

let me take this from an outsiders point of view

most folks, be they yer parents er not, DON'T LIKE CHANGE! they like things just the way they are....change is scary, learnin and experiencin new things is frightening and might have to cause you to think...we are taught in this society not to think..thinkin bad..here, watch FOX, "i Married A Republican" is on....

why else do you think fast food and processed food is sooo popular? easy, and its always the same..you can get the same mayonaise in norfolk as you can in Sacromento, and it will taste exactly the same..same with McDonalds, served to you by the same underpaid teens and tatses exactly the same no matter where you go....

it will always amaze why someone will drive upteen billion miles to go see some far off thing/place/culture...and end up at the same dull murder king

as fer mom..

i'm sorry it upset you so

i've gone thru the same thing many many a time...my father will still ask me "so, you eat chicken right?"...i'm gonna have to come up with another answer besides "yeah, the ones that come from eggplants.." (not as funny fer you Brits and yer aubergines...)

but...look at it this way..yer mom is scared...even if you've told her a zillion times..she doesn't understand...she doesn't want to understand, it opens up a whole slew of uncomfortable thoughts and ideas, and face it, most people don't like that...if she accepts yer veganism at face value, then she has to think about wot she is eatin, where it comes from, and that raises a whole lot of issues i'm bettin she'd rather not think of it..its safer to be ignorant er pretend it doesn't happen.......smokestacks, cattle cars with people in em? nahh..that razor wire camp is to keep people safe...

i know yer angry and hurt....

not today, er even tomorrow..but...maybe..someday, you can wirte yer mom a letter, and tell her why it hurt you, explain yer feelings...

Do Not Do This over the Phone!

why? because, if you do it in a letter, she can reread it, she can think about it, she doesn't have to get all defensive and lash out like she coiuld if talking to you on the phone or in person...

of course..i'm a horrid example..as i rarely if ever talk to my mother, tho, that has a lot more to do with many many many past issues....

if ya ever need to talk..we are here

cheers

fraggle

April 11, 2003

standard answer

"why can't you eat some dog sh*t once in awhile?"

In a message dated 4/10/03 5:29:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mcxg46 writes:

Mind you, I do come up against the 'why can't you eat meat just this once'

when out somehwere...I wonder if the problem is that people tend to think of

veganism as a preference along the lines of preferring brown bread over

white, rather than from a more stongly-held belief/opinion, so don't really

understand why you'd object so strongly. I remember when I was a vegetarian

I was accused of being rude when I turned down meat at a meal, as if it was

something I should put up with eating just to be polite, in the same way you

would, um (searches for quick example) brussel sprouts.

April 11, 2003

Danielle,

Sending you a ((BIG HUG))!

Sorry things didn't go so well. I have a lot of this tension from

most of me family members. I think it just stems from them not

understanding. This breaks away from the " norm " and it scares the

heck outta them.

I have gotten to the point where I've told them if they read up on it

and have an actual conversation with me, then we can talk. If they

continue to harp on me about things which they do not understand,

they can walk. If they choose the in-between of no discussion, this

is fine with me too.

I wish I could say it gets easier, but I think it only becomes more

tolerable. Of which isn't so bad.

Just know we are all here for you should you need to talk, vent or

just be.

Nikki

, " Danielle Kichler "

<veggietart@h...> wrote:

> Just when I thought my mother supported my veganism (and maybe she

does as

> long as she is 800 miles away), she goes and pulls a stunt like

this...

>

> My mom, sister, an aunt and a friend came to visit me and see the

Cherry

> Blossom Festival. My mom and sister thought it would be neat to

take a side

> trip to Charlottesville, Virginia, to see Monticello, home of third

> president Thomas Jefferson. I found a list of veg and veg-friendly

> restaurants in C-ville. My mom, however, made it clear that she

did not

> want to go to a vegetarian restaurant. I asked why. She asked if

I would

> want to go to an all-meat restaurant. I asked if she didn't like

> vegetables. She said she wanted to be able to get the dishes she

was

> accustomed to, which I translated (mentally, anyway) as wanting

dead animals

> on the menu. Our hotel was at one end of Charlottesville's

pedestrian mall,

> but since it was Sunday night, a lot of things were closed. We

ended up

> eating at some crummy bar-restaurant place.

>

> The next morning, over breakfast at a cute little veg cafe, my mom

whined

> about how restrictive veganism was. My sister, appointing herself

> peacemaker, suggested I relax and go veg. Well, when I'm traveling-

-which

> isn't often--I will not be as vigilant as usual about whether or

not the

> bread has milk or eggs. I won't eat cheese or an omelet, but I

don't spazz

> over the ingredients. And I pointed this out. I also made a crack

about

> her having to have a dead animal on the menu, something I *don't*

do unless

> someone bashes my veganism. I was so upset, I ended up crying in

the

> bathroom. If she hadn't bitched about my veganism, I would never

have made

> that comment.

>

> So onto Monticello. It was dreary and rainy, I might add, but the

mansion

> was beautiful, and I was delighted to learn that Jefferson ate, in

the words

> of our tour guide, " a mostly vegetarian diet. " Meaning he ate very

little

> meat and used it as a condiment. Ironically, the tourist trap

restaurant

> down the street, where my mom insisted on eating, featured fried

chicken,

> black eyed peas cooked with some dead pig meat, stewed tomatoes

that looked

> like vomit (to me), cold green beans, beets (which I hate), and a

couple of

> mayonnaise-based salads. Namely, nothing I could really eat, not

even a

> salad (they don't make 'em). The deal about this place is servers

in

> 18th-century costume and tin plates and cups. Yawn. So I ate

nothing, and

> my mom got upset because I was upset and said she'd made it clear

she wasn't

> going to eat vegan this weekend. She didn't eat vegan at ALL,

except when I

> took her to the Ethiopian restaurant, which I genuinely thought

she'd like,

> and she made clear she didn't.

>

> I mean, I found a restaurant that had a salad bar, because she said

she

> liked salads. She's a TRAVEL AGENT, for Gaia's sake! She lives in

ORLANDO,

> FLORIDA! You think she'd be able to smell tourist trap from 10

miles, but I

> guess not. I wonder what the point of traveling is if you only

want to get

> dishes you're " accustomed to. "

>

> I know one thing: I am NEVER making my brownies for her ever

again. And I

> am NOT visiting her for a long time. Since she only respects me

from 800

> miles, I think I'll keep it that way.

>

> Has anyone else experienced hostility like this?

>

> Danielle

>

> " You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --

Jeanette Rankin

>

> _______________

> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

April 11, 2003

Oh Fraggle I must borrow that!

Thank you!

nikki

, EBbrewpunx@c... wrote:

> standard answer

> " why can't you eat some dog sh*t once in awhile? "

>

> In a message dated 4/10/03 5:29:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> mcxg46@d... writes:

> >

> > Mind you, I do come up against the 'why can't you eat meat just

this once'

> > when out somehwere...I wonder if the problem is that people tend

to think

> > of

> > veganism as a preference along the lines of preferring brown

bread over

> > white, rather than from a more stongly-held belief/opinion, so

don't really

> > understand why you'd object so strongly. I remember when I was a

vegetarian

> > I was accused of being rude when I turned down meat at a meal, as

if it was

> > something I should put up with eating just to be polite, in the

same way

> > you

> > would, um (searches for quick example) brussel sprouts.

April 13, 2003

Oh, the worst of it is: she said that *I* should show consideration and be

willing to compromise. I suggested she pretend I'm allergic to dairy and

eggs and I just don't eat meat. A friend of mine thinks that by now, I

probably do have a lactose intolerance because I have avoided dairy for

almost a year except in the tiniest amounts (usually the garlic bread at a

local pizza and pasta joint).

Danielle

" You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin

----Original Message Follows----

" Heartwork " <Heartwork

Re: permit me to vent

Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:48:17 +0100