Would you? Could you? (warning- this post contains tongue in cheek content)

[Guest guest]

A fruitarian diet (derived solely from fruit, as opposed to raw

food, in which all sorts of things such as leaves, sprouts, etc are

used but arn't cooked) in this country (ie, UK) is probably not

viable without being highly dependent on imports- so whilst one

might be avoiding causing 'pain' to the plant (a dubious and

unsubtantiated theory in any case) by relying solely on fruit that

falls from the tree or bush, this would be counteracted by the

damage done by greatly increasing one's overall ecological footprint

and carbon budget. To say nothing of the trees, plants and animal

habitats that would need to be destroyed in order to build more

airports and roads to cope with the increased levels of fruit

importation... (also, in the countries of origin, masses of

indigenous plants would have to be displaced in order to make room

for fruit and nut plantations- no doubt on trees grafted with bees

wax- that are useful to human beings). Would you want this on YOUR

conscience????

 

A raw food diet OTOH is proabably sustainable and even makes

ecological sense (no cooking- hence less fossil fuels burned). A few

years ago I ran a permaculture course with some raw food folks over

in West London, they seemed to sustain themselves pretty well from

locally and home grown produce including all manner of common

garden 'weeds' (including nettles and grass- blended into some kind

of raw pate). But I wouldn't fancy it myself long term... In fact my

co-teacher and I legged it down to the nearest coffee shop at Ealing

station for a quick caffiene fix once the course was finished!!!

 

Cheers Graham

 

, " Vegecentric " <vegecentric@o...>

wrote:

> Hi Amy,

> Fruit and Veg. are designed by the plant to be eaten - that's how

their seeds are dispersed and propagated. That's also why they don't

have a nervous system to alert to pain or disease, or means to flee

from danger, like animals. By contrast animals, like us, have a

survival instinct so they can breed and prosper. It doesn't make any

sense for plants to feel pain, but B.S. artists still try it anyway.

>

> By the way, I love fruit, but life without soy ice-cream and dark

chocolate sounds pretty dull to me!

>

> Tom

> -

> Amylia F

>

> Saturday, May 03, 2003 8:57 AM

> Would you? Could you?

>

>

> I just finished reading all the postings on " honey. " See,

that's why I love you guys. You always have something thought-

provoking to say, and I just eat it up. (Yum!) And now, I've

already asked a similar question to this but, would you, or could

you become a fruitarian? I heard about them 7 years ago. I found

their official website, but haven't had the hours to go through it.

I'm attracted to them, because it just seems so " pure. " (I've even

heard they refuse to pick fruit off trees, but instead wait for it

to fall to the ground----that way it's no longer connected to the

source of life, the tree. Once it's on the ground, it's a product

of the tree.---See the difference?) Like I said, it seems pure,

because there are people that believe eating carrots is murder. ---

Why? Because they are pulled out from under the ground, thus ending

their life, unlike apples which are a product of the tree, not the

tree itself. And another thing, I did once have this guy tell me

that eating vegetables hurts plants. I know plants do not have a

face, but do they have feelings? --Well, I feel funny just asking

that question. But does anyone feel they are " killing " plants at

all? Or maybe choosing the lesser of two evils by eating plants

instead of animals?---Just wondering...

>

>

>

> *This message was brought to you by: Amy

>

>

> -

-----------

> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*

>

[Guest guest]

Graham,

I hear what you're saying, but then what's the answer? ----Wouldn't the same thing happen if everyone went veggie or vegan?--More airports and roads built to meet the demand of vegetables, etc. being shipped out to countries dependent on imports, negatively affecting the environment, etc. (And everything else you said.)---In this way, it almost makes me think, "Okay, should I be thankful for the fact that this world isn't fruitarian?"---Even if everything you said was true, it's still not as bad as the meat/dairy industry. Not even close.

It's like the whole "recylcing" thing. We're supposed to recycle what little we use of metal, plastic, paper, etc. But then someone told me that those factories that recycle, cause the same kind of air pollution, if not more, than factories that produce styrofoam, etc. So should we all stop recycling then?----Once again, what is the answer?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*This message was brought to you by: Amy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>"quercusrobur2002"

> > > Re: Would you? Could you? (warning- this post contains tongue in cheek content) >Sun, 04 May 2003 13:02:05 -0000 > >A fruitarian diet (derived solely from fruit, as opposed to raw >food, in which all sorts of things such as leaves, sprouts, etc are >used but arn't cooked) in this country (ie, UK) is probably not >viable without being highly dependent on imports- so whilst one >might be avoiding causing 'pain' to the plant (a dubious and >unsubtantiated theory in any case) by relying solely on fruit that >falls from the tree or bush, this would be counteracted by the >damage done by greatly increasing one's overall ecological footprint >and carbon budget. To say nothing of the trees, plants and animal >habitats that would need to be destroyed in order to build more >airports and roads to cope with the increased levels of fruit >importation... (also, in the countries of origin, masses of >indigenous plants would have to be displaced in order to make room >for fruit and nut plantations- no doubt on trees grafted with bees >wax- that are useful to human beings). Would you want this on YOUR >conscience???? > >A raw food diet OTOH is proabably sustainable and even makes >ecological sense (no cooking- hence less fossil fuels burned). A few >years ago I ran a permaculture course with some raw food folks over >in West London, they seemed to sustain themselves pretty well from >locally and home grown produce including all manner of common >garden 'weeds' (including nettles and grass- blended into some kind >of raw pate). But I wouldn't fancy it myself long term... In fact my >co-teacher and I legged it down to the nearest coffee shop at Ealing >station for a quick caffiene fix once the course was finished!!! > >Cheers Graham > > , "Vegecentric"

>wrote: > > Hi Amy, > > Fruit and Veg. are designed by the plant to be eaten - that's how >their seeds are dispersed and propagated. That's also why they don't >have a nervous system to alert to pain or disease, or means to flee >from danger, like animals. By contrast animals, like us, have a >survival instinct so they can breed and prosper. It doesn't make any >sense for plants to feel pain, but B.S. artists still try it anyway. > > > > By the way, I love fruit, but life without soy ice-cream and dark >chocolate sounds pretty dull to me! > > > > Tom > > - > > Amylia F > > > > Saturday, May 03, 2003 8:57 AM > > Would you? Could you? > > > > > > I just finished reading all the postings on "honey." See, >that's why I love you guys. You always have something thought- >provoking to say, and I just eat it up. (Yum!) And now, I've >already asked a similar question to this but, would you, or could >you become a fruitarian? I heard about them 7 years ago. I found >their official website, but haven't had the hours to go through it. >I'm attracted to them, because it just seems so "pure." (I've even >heard they refuse to pick fruit off trees, but instead wait for it >to fall to the ground----that way it's no longer connected to the >source of life, the tree. Once it's on the ground, it's a product >of the tree.---See the difference?) Like I said, it seems pure, >because there are people that believe eating carrots is murder. --- >Why? Because they are pulled out from under the ground, thus ending >their life, unlike apples which are a product of the tree, not the >tree itself. And another thing, I did once have this guy tell me >that eating vegetables hurts plants. I know plants do not have a >face, but do they have feelings? --Well, I feel funny just asking >that question. But does anyone feel they are "killing" plants at >all? Or maybe choosing the lesser of two evils by eating plants >instead of animals?---Just wondering... > > > > > > > > *This message was brought to you by: Amy > > > > > > - >----------- > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > >

[Guest guest]

, " Amylia F " <amylia_21@h...> wrote:

 

 

Well my point really was that the idea of a fruitarian diet, ie, one

which consisted solely of bits that have dropped off of plants,

adopted in order to avoid causing 'suffering' to plants, would

actually have major impacts elsewhere, and would in fact only

displace the 'suffdering' of teh plants to somewhere else in the

chain...

 

Fact is, we are all part of a massive planet wide cycle of life,

death and rebirth, and to imagine that we can stand outside of this

is foolhardy really...

 

BTW, figures have suggested that a vegan UK could actaully be self-

sufficient on just 25% of the agricultuarl land that is actually

available, so in theory a vegan UK wouldn't need to import

foodstuffs at all. But we are not a very good climate for aiming at

self sufficiency in fruit production, particularly if aiming to feed

the nations population on fruit alone...

 

As for 'the answer', is there one? if so, would the person who has

it please forward to the list on a postcard :-)

 

 

Cheers, graham

[Guest guest]

Maybe there is no simple answer, but I think that the trucks and roads,

etc., used to ship meat already exist, and could be used to ship vegetables,

fruits, and grains instead. Here in the US, animals can be born in one

state, fattened in another, and killed in a third. That's an awful lot of

trucking and an awful lot of gas wasted (to say nothing of the other

resources wasted and potential contamination of groundwaters). Don't

slaughterhouses and rendering plants emit a lot of noxious pollution? How

about the toxic chemicals used to tan leather, a byproduct of the meat

industry?

 

I don't know how it works in other countries, but I do remember reading an

article where President Bush declared he wants to export " healthy American

beef " (yeah, right) to other countries. For all I know, meat is shipped

from one country to another. If countries are shipping meats, dairy, and

eggs, using the fuel and resources, why can't we divert the resources to

ship fruits, vegetables, and grains instead?

 

Danielle

 

 

 

" You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" Amylia F " <amylia_21

 

 

Re: Re: Would you? Could you? (warning- this post

contains tongue in cheek content)

Sun, 04 May 2003 14:06:31 -0700

 

 

 

_______________

STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*

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Graham,

I hear what you're saying, but then what's the answer? ----Wouldn't the same thing happen if everyone went veggie or vegan?--More airports and roads built to meet the demand of vegetables, etc. being shipped out to countries dependent on imports, negatively affecting the environment, etc. (And everything else you said.)---In this way, it almost makes me think, "Okay, should I be thankful for the fact that this world isn't fruitarian?"---Even if everything you said was true, it's still not as bad as the meat/dairy industry. Not even close.

It's like the whole "recylcing" thing. We're supposed to recycle what little we use of metal, plastic, paper, etc. But then someone told me that those factories that recycle, cause the same kind of air pollution, if not more, than factories that produce styrofoam, etc. So should we all stop recycling then?----Once again, what is the answer?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*This message was brought to you by: Amy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

>"quercusrobur2002"

> > > Re: Would you? Could you? (warning- this post contains tongue in cheek content) >Sun, 04 May 2003 13:02:05 -0000 > >A fruitarian diet (derived solely from fruit, as opposed to raw >food, in which all sorts of things such as leaves, sprouts, etc are >used but arn't cooked) in this country (ie, UK) is probably not >viable without being highly dependent on imports- so whilst one >might be avoiding causing 'pain' to the plant (a dubious and >unsubtantiated theory in any case) by relying solely on fruit that >falls from the tree or bush, this would be counteracted by the >damage done by greatly increasing one's overall ecological footprint >and carbon budget. To say nothing of the trees, plants and animal >habitats that would need to be destroyed in order to build more >airports and roads to cope with the increased levels of fruit >importation... (also, in the countries of origin, masses of >indigenous plants would have to be displaced in order to make room >for fruit and nut plantations- no doubt on trees grafted with bees >wax- that are useful to human beings). Would you want this on YOUR >conscience???? > >A raw food diet OTOH is proabably sustainable and even makes >ecological sense (no cooking- hence less fossil fuels burned). A few >years ago I ran a permaculture course with some raw food folks over >in West London, they seemed to sustain themselves pretty well from >locally and home grown produce including all manner of common >garden 'weeds' (including nettles and grass- blended into some kind >of raw pate). But I wouldn't fancy it myself long term... In fact my >co-teacher and I legged it down to the nearest coffee shop at Ealing >station for a quick caffiene fix once the course was finished!!! > >Cheers Graham > > , "Vegecentric"

>wrote: > > Hi Amy, > > Fruit and Veg. are designed by the plant to be eaten - that's how >their seeds are dispersed and propagated. That's also why they don't >have a nervous system to alert to pain or disease, or means to flee >from danger, like animals. By contrast animals, like us, have a >survival instinct so they can breed and prosper. It doesn't make any >sense for plants to feel pain, but B.S. artists still try it anyway. > > > > By the way, I love fruit, but life without soy ice-cream and dark >chocolate sounds pretty dull to me! > > > > Tom > > - > > Amylia F > > > > Saturday, May 03, 2003 8:57 AM > > Would you? Could you? > > > > > > I just finished reading all the postings on "honey." See, >that's why I love you guys. You always have something thought- >provoking to say, and I just eat it up. (Yum!) And now, I've >already asked a similar question to this but, would you, or could >you become a fruitarian? I heard about them 7 years ago. I found >their official website, but haven't had the hours to go through it. >I'm attracted to them, because it just seems so "pure." (I've even >heard they refuse to pick fruit off trees, but instead wait for it >to fall to the ground----that way it's no longer connected to the >source of life, the tree. Once it's on the ground, it's a product >of the tree.---See the difference?) Like I said, it seems pure, >because there are people that believe eating carrots is murder. --- >Why? Because they are pulled out from under the ground, thus ending >their life, unlike apples which are a product of the tree, not the >tree itself. And another thing, I did once have this guy tell me >that eating vegetables hurts plants. I know plants do not have a >face, but do they have feelings? --Well, I feel funny just asking >that question. But does anyone feel they are "killing" plants at >all? Or maybe choosing the lesser of two evils by eating plants >instead of animals?---Just wondering... > > > > > > > > *This message was brought to you by: Amy > > > > > > - >----------- > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > >

[Guest guest]

, " Danielle Kichler "

<veggietart@h...> wrote:

> Maybe there is no simple answer, but I think that the trucks and

roads,

> etc., used to ship meat already exist, and could be used to ship

vegetables,

> fruits, and grains instead.

 

But fruitarians strive to exist on *fruit* (and nuts) alone (NOT

grains, pulses and vegetables, which allegedly 'suffer' by

experiencing 'pain' when harvested). The UK does not have a suitable

climate to be able to be self sufficient in providing an adequately

nutritious diet for all of it's population utilising fruit and nuts

alone. If all of the UK's population were to switch to fruitarianism

this *would* mean an increase in the importation of fruit and nuts

and a corresponding increase in the countries ecological footprint.

[Guest guest]

OK, but what if they were just to convert to a vegan diet (equally as

unlikely, I realize)? I think the importation argument falls slightly flat

because your country do import other vegetables and meats, doesn't it?

 

Danielle

 

 

 

" You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake " --Jeanette Rankin

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett

 

 

Re: Would you? Could you? (warning- this post contains

tongue in cheek content)

Mon, 05 May 2003 00:23:52 -0000

 

, " Danielle Kichler "

<veggietart@h...> wrote:

> Maybe there is no simple answer, but I think that the trucks and

roads,

> etc., used to ship meat already exist, and could be used to ship

vegetables,

> fruits, and grains instead.

 

But fruitarians strive to exist on *fruit* (and nuts) alone (NOT

grains, pulses and vegetables, which allegedly 'suffer' by

experiencing 'pain' when harvested). The UK does not have a suitable

climate to be able to be self sufficient in providing an adequately

nutritious diet for all of it's population utilising fruit and nuts

alone. If all of the UK's population were to switch to fruitarianism

this *would* mean an increase in the importation of fruit and nuts

and a corresponding increase in the countries ecological footprint.

 

 

 

_______________

Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*

http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

[Guest guest]

, " Danielle Kichler "

<veggietart@h...> wrote:

> OK, but what if they were just to convert to a vegan diet (equally

as

> unlikely, I realize)? I think the importation argument falls

slightly flat

> because your country do import other vegetables and meats, doesn't

it?

 

As I explained, the UK could theoretically be more than self

sufficiant on a vegan diet.

 

But we have the wrong climate to be self sufficient on a fruit only

diet, there are many months of the year when fruit isn't available,

we are also unable to grow a range of fruit that would provide all

of the necessary nutrients to sustain a healthy population, at least

in sufficient quantities for a popluation of 60 million odd people.

 

My main point is that in the UK, fruitarianism would be logically

inconsistent because fruitarians claim that they are 'reducing plant

suffering' by eating only the bits that fall off of plants

naturally. Even if this were true, they would still need to remove

millions of acres of existing plants, trees and vegetation in order

to replace them with fruit and nut trees and bushes, thus would

still be causing lots of plant suffering...

 

This is probably a silly arguement anyway, I was being tongue in

cheek when i started it...

[Guest guest]

In any case, once the fruit is in your mouth, it's dead. Maybe eat rocks,

instead...

 

Tom

-

" quercusrobur2002 " <grahamburnett

 

Sunday, May 04, 2003 5:23 PM

Re: Would you? Could you? (warning- this post contains

tongue in cheek content)

 

 

> , " Danielle Kichler "

> <veggietart@h...> wrote:

> > Maybe there is no simple answer, but I think that the trucks and

> roads,

> > etc., used to ship meat already exist, and could be used to ship

> vegetables,

> > fruits, and grains instead.

>

> But fruitarians strive to exist on *fruit* (and nuts) alone (NOT

> grains, pulses and vegetables, which allegedly 'suffer' by

> experiencing 'pain' when harvested). The UK does not have a suitable

> climate to be able to be self sufficient in providing an adequately

> nutritious diet for all of it's population utilising fruit and nuts

> alone. If all of the UK's population were to switch to fruitarianism

> this *would* mean an increase in the importation of fruit and nuts

> and a corresponding increase in the countries ecological footprint.

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

>

[Guest guest]

Don't forget animism.

 

Jo

 

> In any case, once the fruit is in your mouth, it's dead. Maybe eat rocks,

> instead...

 

 

 

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