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Well, the fun continues in the debate between the U.S. and the

European Union over genetically modified crops. President Bush is

trying to strong-arm the Union into allowing new strains of

genetically altered crops to be imported to Europe. It seems Europe's

recalcitrance (which I applaud) is hurting the proverbial

agricultural pocketbook. Since 1998, when the EU banned further

importation of new GMO strains, American farmers have claimed a loss

of $300 million per annum on just corn crops alone. Boo hoo! Bush

(backed by Canada and Argentina) claims that this is direct violation

of free trade. He has even threatened to sue the EU? [Don't quote

me, I don't remember where I read that.] The EU might relent on the

importation issue, but will mandate labeling on any foodstuff that

contains more than .9% GMO. Hello, we should have done that in the

U.S. from the beginning of this whole nonsense! Anyway, my questions

are legion, but here are two for discussion:

 

How does Europe's decision to not accept (or to accept and label)

GMOs go against free trade? I guess I don't understand from where Mr.

Bush is pulling this spurious argument.

 

Segundo: Seeing as how Mr. Bush is so entrenched in the religious

conservative right, why does the altering of nature's genetic code

not countermand his belief system?

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HI Doug

 

I hope the EU will not accept it. They would be stupid to because it will not sell well.

 

I also do not see how it goes against 'free-trade'.

 

Jo

 

-

Doug

Sunday, August 10, 2003 3:11 PM

Transgenic Terrors

Well, the fun continues in the debate between the U.S. and the European Union over genetically modified crops. President Bush is trying to strong-arm the Union into allowing new strains of genetically altered crops to be imported to Europe. It seems Europe's recalcitrance (which I applaud) is hurting the proverbial agricultural pocketbook. Since 1998, when the EU banned further importation of new GMO strains, American farmers have claimed a loss of $300 million per annum on just corn crops alone. Boo hoo! Bush (backed by Canada and Argentina) claims that this is direct violation of free trade. He has even threatened to sue the EU? [Don't quote me, I don't remember where I read that.] The EU might relent on the importation issue, but will mandate labeling on any foodstuff that contains more than .9% GMO. Hello, we should have done that in the U.S. from the beginning of this whole nonsense! Anyway, my questions are legion, but here are two for discussion:How does Europe's decision to not accept (or to accept and label) GMOs go against free trade? I guess I don't understand from where Mr. Bush is pulling this spurious argument.Segundo: Seeing as how Mr. Bush is so entrenched in the religious conservative right, why does the altering of nature's genetic code not countermand his belief system?

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You seem to be misunderstanding the concepts of free trade. Free Trade

means that the large (and usually American) multinationals should be

free to sell what they like around the world in whatever fashion they

like. This means that even when the FDA slap a ban on something at

home, the companies can continue selling around the world for years

while they develop something new. The EC placing limitations on this

contradicts with this great American tradition, and even worse could

get people at home questioning the products.

 

Money talks louder than God. I suspect that if Nike and McDonalds

decided to open abortion clinics inside their stores, then he would

probably be convinced to do an about turn on that as well.

 

Dave

 

----- Original Message from Doug -----

 

How does Europe's decision to not accept (or to accept and label)

GMOs go against free trade? I guess I don't understand from where Mr.

Bush is pulling this spurious argument.

 

Segundo: Seeing as how Mr. Bush is so entrenched in the religious

conservative right, why does the altering of nature's genetic code

not countermand his belief system?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

To send an email to -

 

 

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In a message dated 8/10/03 7:11:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time, DougDuea1 writes:

 

Segundo: Seeing as how Mr. Bush is so entrenched in the religious

conservative right, why does the altering of nature's genetic code

not countermand his belief system?

because in his belief system, "God" gave the planet to humankind to dominate....we can do with it as we please....

bleah...

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Well, there's my point--he's against stem cell research to SAVE LIVES

because he thinks it's 'playing god,' but he has no fucking problem with

GMOs, which is ALSO playing god. And Frankenstein. how about we give the

organic and conventional foods to the people who need it and let all the

CEOs and their families eat the GMOs?

 

Danielle

 

 

 

Sure there's a light at the end of the tunnel...I just hope it isn't an

oncoming train!

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" Doug " <DougDuea1

 

 

Transgenic Terrors

Sun, 10 Aug 2003 14:11:04 -0000

 

Well, the fun continues in the debate between the U.S. and the

European Union over genetically modified crops. President Bush is

trying to strong-arm the Union into allowing new strains of

genetically altered crops to be imported to Europe. It seems Europe's

recalcitrance (which I applaud) is hurting the proverbial

agricultural pocketbook. Since 1998, when the EU banned further

importation of new GMO strains, American farmers have claimed a loss

of $300 million per annum on just corn crops alone. Boo hoo! Bush

(backed by Canada and Argentina) claims that this is direct violation

of free trade. He has even threatened to sue the EU? [Don't quote

me, I don't remember where I read that.] The EU might relent on the

importation issue, but will mandate labeling on any foodstuff that

contains more than .9% GMO. Hello, we should have done that in the

U.S. from the beginning of this whole nonsense! Anyway, my questions

are legion, but here are two for discussion:

 

How does Europe's decision to not accept (or to accept and label)

GMOs go against free trade? I guess I don't understand from where Mr.

Bush is pulling this spurious argument.

 

Segundo: Seeing as how Mr. Bush is so entrenched in the religious

conservative right, why does the altering of nature's genetic code

not countermand his belief system?

 

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In a message dated 8/10/03 11:34:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ian writes:

 

I imagine a large number of CEOs don't care wheher their food is GMO or

organic.

dunno about that.,..

foods with GMO ingredients are banned from the commissaries at the monsanto office in the UK....

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Danielle Kichler wrote:

>

> Well, there's my point--he's against stem cell research to SAVE LIVES

> because he thinks it's 'playing god,'

 

Actually, I thought he was against stem cell research because it

involves killing human embryos.

 

> but he has no fucking problem with

> GMOs, which is ALSO playing god. And Frankenstein.

 

That begs the question of whether it *is* playing god.

 

> how about we give the

> organic and conventional foods to the people who need it and let all the

> CEOs and their families eat the GMOs?

 

Iceland, a low-end frozen grocers, tried to go all organic without

changing their prices, but the people who needed it decided that if it

was organic, it must be expensive (even though it wasn't!) and went

elsewhere.

 

I imagine a large number of CEOs don't care wheher their food is GMO or

organic.

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OK, but the research involves embryos that are going to be

discarded--killed--anyway. They're not making embryos for the sole purpose

of stem cell research; they're using embryos that won't ever be implanted in

a woman's uterus because she's decided in vitro doesn't work, or it did

work, and she has the child(ren) she wants.

 

Besides, given the choice between an embryo and alleviating the misery of an

actual human being, I'll go with the actual human.

 

As for GMOs playing god, what else is insterting one gene into another

species to make an organism that never could happen in nature? I mean, in

nature, fish could never breed with plants.

 

Danielle

 

 

 

Sure there's a light at the end of the tunnel...I just hope it isn't an

oncoming train!

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" Dr. Ian McDonald " <ian

 

 

Re: Transgenic Terrors

Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:38:04 +0100

 

 

 

Danielle Kichler wrote:

>

> Well, there's my point--he's against stem cell research to SAVE LIVES

> because he thinks it's 'playing god,'

 

Actually, I thought he was against stem cell research because it

involves killing human embryos.

 

> but he has no fucking problem with

> GMOs, which is ALSO playing god. And Frankenstein.

 

That begs the question of whether it *is* playing god.

 

> how about we give the

> organic and conventional foods to the people who need it and let all the

> CEOs and their families eat the GMOs?

 

Iceland, a low-end frozen grocers, tried to go all organic without

changing their prices, but the people who needed it decided that if it

was organic, it must be expensive (even though it wasn't!) and went

elsewhere.

 

I imagine a large number of CEOs don't care wheher their food is GMO or

organic.

 

_______________

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You have gotta fucking be kidding me. Monsanto, the purveyor of

frankenfood, does not have GMOs at its UK office? I guess that has more to

do with the UK's ban than Monsanto's decision, but I think that their

location should be the once exception to the ban.

 

Danielle

 

 

 

Sure there's a light at the end of the tunnel...I just hope it isn't an

oncoming train!

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

EBbrewpunx

 

 

Re: Transgenic Terrors

Mon, 11 Aug 2003 02:38:32 EDT

 

In a message dated 8/10/03 11:34:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

ian writes:

>

> I imagine a large number of CEOs don't care wheher their food is GMO or

> organic.

dunno about that.,..

foods with GMO ingredients are banned from the commissaries at the monsanto

office in the UK....

 

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Hi Danielle

 

> You have gotta fucking be kidding me. Monsanto, the purveyor of > frankenfood, does not have GMOs at its UK office? I guess that has more to > do with the UK's ban than Monsanto's decision, but I think that their > location should be the once exception to the ban.

There is no ban on selling or consuming GM foods in the UK... there are certain (gradually eroding) regulations on growing them. It's also somewhat ironic that the government are fully behind GM products.... but have had the sale of GM foods banned from the House of Commons canteen!

 

BB

Peter

 

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....and from the Houses of Parliament canteen! I believe.

 

Jo

 

I imagine a large number of CEOs don't care wheher their food is GMO ororganic.

 

dunno about that.,..foods with GMO ingredients are banned from the commissaries at the monsanto office in the UK....

 

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Danielle

 

We do not have a ban on gm foods being sold.

 

Jo

 

 

 

Monsanto, the purveyor of frankenfood, does not have GMOs at its UK office? I guess that has more to do with the UK's ban than Monsanto's decision, but I think that their location should be the once exception to the ban.

 

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no, dear, that's just hypocrisy, not irony.

 

danielle

 

 

 

Sure there's a light at the end of the tunnel...I just hope it isn't an

oncoming train!

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" Peter " <metalscarab

 

 

Re: Transgenic Terrors

Mon, 11 Aug 2003 17:41:25 +0100

 

Hi Danielle

 

> You have gotta fucking be kidding me. Monsanto, the purveyor of

> frankenfood, does not have GMOs at its UK office? I guess that has more

to

> do with the UK's ban than Monsanto's decision, but I think that their

> location should be the once exception to the ban.

 

There is no ban on selling or consuming GM foods in the UK... there are

certain (gradually eroding) regulations on growing them. It's also somewhat

ironic that the government are fully behind GM products.... but have had the

sale of GM foods banned from the House of Commons canteen!

 

BB

Peter

 

 

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release 01/08/03

 

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I must be misinformed then. I thought I heard Britain and the EU were

trying to ban the stuff. I have to remember when I hear EU that the UK is

not part of it. I've heard of it because Dubya is going nuts that Europeans

don't want the poison his corporate buddies are pushing on the world.

 

Danielle

 

 

 

Sure there's a light at the end of the tunnel...I just hope it isn't an

oncoming train!

 

 

 

 

 

----Original Message Follows----

" Heartwork " <Heartwork

 

 

Re: Transgenic Terrors

Mon, 11 Aug 2003 18:48:45 +0100

 

Danielle

 

We do not have a ban on gm foods being sold.

 

Jo

 

 

Monsanto, the purveyor of

frankenfood, does not have GMOs at its UK office? I guess that has more

to

do with the UK's ban than Monsanto's decision, but I think that their

location should be the once exception to the ban.

 

 

---

Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.

Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).

Version: 6.0.506 / Virus Database: 303 - Release 01/08/03

 

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Hi Danielle

 

> I must be misinformed then. I thought I heard Britain and the EU were > trying to ban the stuff. I have to remember when I hear EU that the UK is > not part of it. I've heard of it because Dubya is going nuts that Europeans > don't want the poison his corporate buddies are pushing on the world.

There are certainly huge movements within the EU and UK to get the stuff banned - far bigger than in the US as I understand it - but as usual our governments aren't currently listening

:-(

 

The current situation in the UK is that not just anyone can grow GM - it is still "on trial", but there are something like 30 sites that are currently growing GM in the UK. What Bush wants is for us to just accept any GM crop he wants to throw at us, and have any farmer who wants to growing the stuff. I guess the same is thing is true in the EU, but I'm not that well up on EU regulations.

 

BTW the UK are a part of the EU, just not a part of the Euro-zone. And it gets all quite complex with which EU rules our government decides to follow and which it doesn't. Generally, anything that would help the ordinary person is ignored!

 

BB

Peter

 

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BTW the UK are a part of the EU, just not a part of the Euro-zone. And it

gets all quite complex with which EU rules our government decides to follow

and which it doesn't. Generally, anything that would help the ordinary

person is ignored!

 

BB

Peter

 

sounds an awful lot like the bush (mis)administration.

 

 

Sure there's a light at the end of the tunnel...I just hope it isn't an

oncoming train!

 

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