Guest guest Posted May 31, 2009 Report Share Posted May 31, 2009 Hello all, Just wanted to drop you a line about the new movie Earthlings (http://www.earthlings.com). I ordered it last week and me and my family just watched it. What a great movie! It has a vegetarian and humane message and is a must-see. I recommend others either purchase it or look for local screenings of it. I know some screenings of the movie have been being arranged by vegetarian groups, veg restaurants, etc. My 3 and 5 year olds watched it as well (who are being raised vegetarian). There is some disturbing footage, but I never shield them from this type of thing. Instead, I discuss with them what is happening and how it is wrong to treat animals like that. Anywy, two thumbs up for a movie well done! It's one that the meat/dairy/animal entertainment industry does not want out on the market. Jacqueline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 I have heard and read about this movie. After reading this review (http://vegandad.blogspot.com/2008/12/earthlings-movie-review.html)I knew better than to watch it. But I am curious - does anyone know what the point of the movie is? What is its agenda? Or was it an excuse to someone to show animal torture? I can't imagine anyone who really loves animals and being concerned about their welfare filming this type of thing. Like I said, I have not and will not see it. That is why I am asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 The movie was with an animal rights agenda. I tried to watch it once but the images were so disturbing to me and it made me cry very early on so i did not ever watch the whole movie. I would not let any small children ever watch it and would warn older children (teens) and let them know what it is about and the images they will see and let them decide if they want to see it. I guess if you did not care about animals the movie might make you think about them and the torture they suffer. I always thought that was who the movie was geared toward anyway. Jo a_new_dawn Mon, 22 Jun 2009 16:47:04 +0000 Re: Earthlings movie I have heard and read about this movie. After reading this review (http://vegandad.blogspot.com/2008/12/earthlings-movie-review.html)I knew better than to watch it. But I am curious - does anyone know what the point of the movie is? What is its agenda? Or was it an excuse to someone to show animal torture? I can't imagine anyone who really loves animals and being concerned about their welfare filming this type of thing. Like I said, I have not and will not see it. That is why I am asking. _______________ Insert movie times and more without leaving Hotmail®. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/QuickAdd?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Q\ uickAdd_062009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Why? Because it's the truth. Truth hurts, and ignorance is bliss. If people are ignorant to what really happens, then change will never come. - flwrchldme1971 Monday, June 22, 2009 10:47 AM Re: Earthlings movie I have heard and read about this movie. After reading this review (http://vegandad.blogspot.com/2008/12/earthlings-movie-review.html)I knew better than to watch it. But I am curious - does anyone know what the point of the movie is? What is its agenda? Or was it an excuse to someone to show animal torture? I can't imagine anyone who really loves animals and being concerned about their welfare filming this type of thing. Like I said, I have not and will not see it. That is why I am asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 The first part of the movie is hard to watch, or so I'm told, but it gets better. On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:03 PM, June Waterman <june wrote: > > > Why? Because it's the truth. Truth hurts, and ignorance is bliss. > If people are ignorant to what really happens, then change will never come. > > > - > flwrchldme1971 > <%40> > Monday, June 22, 2009 10:47 AM > Re: Earthlings movie > > I have heard and read about this movie. After reading this review ( > http://vegandad.blogspot.com/2008/12/earthlings-movie-review.html)I knew > better than to watch it. > > But I am curious - does anyone know what the point of the movie is? What is > its agenda? Or was it an excuse to someone to show animal torture? > > I can't imagine anyone who really loves animals and being concerned about > their welfare filming this type of thing. > > Like I said, I have not and will not see it. That is why I am asking. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Jo wrote: " I would not let any small children ever watch it and would warn older children (teens) and let them know what it is about and the images they will see and let them decide if they want to see it. " I've never guarded my kids from these images. We watched the movie in the middle of the day, with the kids coming in and out of the living room as they played. They mostly had no interest in watching it. When something caught their attention they watched and we talked about it. But the kids have also watched the Meat Your Meat video already. I want them to be aware of these things. I want them to know the disgusting truth behind the meat industry. Therefore I have never kept it from them and never will. As far as I'm concerned, the more they know about the truth of it all, the more they will be able to defend their vegetarian living when people give them a hard time about it in school. They find the eating animals to be weird, gross, etc. Yes, it is disturbing, gross, and hard to watch. But it is the reality of the meat industry and ethical vegetarianism is a huge part of our lives. And while some may find it odd that I expose my kids to these realities, I don't believe it is anymore odd than the hunter that takes their child hunting or processes their catch in front of them, or the father that takes their child fishing. Jacqueline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 " But I am curious - does anyone know what the point of the movie is? What is its agenda? Or was it an excuse to someone to show animal torture? " The point of the movie is to " MAKE THE CONNECTION. " It is to help people see the way humans use animals and value them for what they can provide to humans. Such as through entertainment, eating, wearing, and experimenting on. I would say that an excuse to show animal torture is the farthest thing from the point of this movie. I bought the movie. I think it's great. Yes, it is hard to watch. But it's the reality of the lives that animals live because of humans. I will keep it to show anyone else willing to open their eyes and hearts to watch it. Jacqueline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 Jacqueline, you're my hero. :-) On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar <jbwrote: > > > " But I am curious - does anyone know what the point of the movie is? > What is its agenda? Or was it an excuse to someone to show animal > torture? " > > The point of the movie is to " MAKE THE CONNECTION. " It is to help people > see the way humans use animals and value them for what they can provide > to humans. Such as through entertainment, eating, wearing, and > experimenting on. I would say that an excuse to show animal torture is > the farthest thing from the point of this movie. > > I bought the movie. I think it's great. Yes, it is hard to watch. But > it's the reality of the lives that animals live because of humans. I > will keep it to show anyone else willing to open their eyes and hearts > to watch it. > > Jacqueline > > > -- Regards, Vibeke " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you should avoid foods that have labels. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 , " June Waterman " <june wrote: > > Why? Because it's the truth. Truth hurts, and ignorance is bliss. > If people are ignorant to what really happens, then change will never come. If ignorance is bliss then wipe the smiles off of our faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2009 Report Share Posted June 22, 2009 I believe that at this time i can teach my sons about these things without the graphic images, my youngest is 2 1/2 and i dont let him see any media images of violence. he is vegan and is starting to understand that people eat animals and has stated he does not want to do that because it would hurt them . Unfortunately as he grows older and goes to school he probably will have to be educated about the meat industry so he can defend his ethics.That being said I still would reccomend that all omnivores see Earthlings. Jo jb Mon, 22 Jun 2009 12:39:05 -0700 RE: Re: Earthlings movie Jo wrote: " I would not let any small children ever watch it and would warn older children (teens) and let them know what it is about and the images they will see and let them decide if they want to see it. " I've never guarded my kids from these images. We watched the movie in the middle of the day, with the kids coming in and out of the living room as they played. They mostly had no interest in watching it. When something caught their attention they watched and we talked about it. But the kids have also watched the Meat Your Meat video already. I want them to be aware of these things. I want them to know the disgusting truth behind the meat industry. Therefore I have never kept it from them and never will. As far as I'm concerned, the more they know about the truth of it all, the more they will be able to defend their vegetarian living when people give them a hard time about it in school. They find the eating animals to be weird, gross, etc. Yes, it is disturbing, gross, and hard to watch. But it is the reality of the meat industry and ethical vegetarianism is a huge part of our lives. And while some may find it odd that I expose my kids to these realities, I don't believe it is anymore odd than the hunter that takes their child hunting or processes their catch in front of them, or the father that takes their child fishing. Jacqueline _______________ Bing™ brings you maps, menus, and reviews organized in one place. Try it now. http://www.bing.com/search?q=restaurants & form=MLOGEN & publ=WLHMTAG & crea=TEXT_MLOG\ EN_Core_tagline_local_1x1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 That is funny. I think Jacqueline is so wonderful. I look for her posts and read them first. She says everything I think but so much better. Jill --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Vibeke Vale <vibekevale wrote: Vibeke Vale <vibekevale Re: Re: Earthlings movie Monday, June 22, 2009, 8:12 PM Jacqueline, you're my hero. :-) On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 3:44 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar <jb@jacquelinebodnar .com>wrote: > > > " But I am curious - does anyone know what the point of the movie is? > What is its agenda? Or was it an excuse to someone to show animal > torture? " > > The point of the movie is to " MAKE THE CONNECTION. " It is to help people > see the way humans use animals and value them for what they can provide > to humans. Such as through entertainment, eating, wearing, and > experimenting on. I would say that an excuse to show animal torture is > the farthest thing from the point of this movie. > > I bought the movie. I think it's great. Yes, it is hard to watch. But > it's the reality of the lives that animals live because of humans. I > will keep it to show anyone else willing to open their eyes and hearts > to watch it. > > Jacqueline > > > -- Regards, Vibeke " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you should avoid foods that have labels. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I'm just saying that one difficult thing in life is to accept the hard truth, and then challenge myself and others to do the right thing. If people are unaware of how harsh the truth is, then they will ignorantly and blissfully continue to eat bacon, wear leather and go to the circus. Historically, the human race only changes when faced with crisis. I think this film accurately depicts animals in crisis. I'm not sure who is smiling??? - havingagreatfulday Monday, June 22, 2009 2:42 PM Re: Earthlings movie , " June Waterman " <june wrote: > > Why? Because it's the truth. Truth hurts, and ignorance is bliss. > If people are ignorant to what really happens, then change will never come. If ignorance is bliss then wipe the smiles off of our faces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Those that truely do not know or refuse to see are the ones that are smiling. I was trying to give us a pat on the back for opening our minds to an uneasy reality. I am proud of everyone on this group for standing up for what they believe in. Weather they can watch Earthlings or not. I thought I could so I watched the trailer, I know now that I don't need to see that to reafirm my beliefs. Some of the images are forever burned in my mind. I wouldn't be able to sit through it. I could barely make it through meet your meat, which is only a fraction in length of this movie. But I think that every omnivore should be required to see it. Then they would join the enlightened side! (I hope) Amity , " June Waterman " <june wrote: > > I'm just saying that one difficult thing in life is to accept the hard truth, and then challenge myself and others to do the right thing. > If people are unaware of how harsh the truth is, then they will ignorantly and blissfully continue to eat bacon, wear leather and go to the circus. > Historically, the human race only changes when faced with crisis. I think this film accurately depicts animals in crisis. > I'm not sure who is smiling??? > - > havingagreatfulday > > Monday, June 22, 2009 2:42 PM > Re: Earthlings movie > > > > > > , " June Waterman " <june@> wrote: > > > > Why? Because it's the truth. Truth hurts, and ignorance is bliss. > > If people are ignorant to what really happens, then change will never come. > > > If ignorance is bliss then wipe the smiles off of our faces. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Hi all, I’m just wondering what the he-- has happened to our society that we need to see live skinned animals to have compassion for animals? That seems a bit unnecessarily violent and over-the-top to me. Yikes, we won’t be watching that movie here. Can we not just teach our children that vegetarianism/veganism is normal and nice to animals, and appeal to children’s natural wish to be nice to animals, without subjecting them to hideous images that may damage their innocent and fragile developing psychological health? I don’t think that disturbing them or making them cry about injured animals will help them explain veg*ism any easier. And I’m not sure kids need violent images as justification for our compassionate choices. We teach our 4-1/2-year-old son that we are vegetarians because that is just what we believe – he sees vegetarianism/veganism as the norm and prioritizes vegetarianism above other criterion when making decisions. He doesn’t question our beliefs or choices, and if he questions our friends’ or family’s choices to eat animals, we just tell him that everyone makes choices and they just made a different choice than we did. He is totally okay with this explanation. He understands that everyone is different (different colors, different sizes, different genders, different partners, etc.) and makes different decisions about everything (different beliefs, different clothes, different hair styles, etc.). Maybe he’ll want more info later, as he gets older and goes to school, but I just don’t feel that we need to use violent images to get the point of compassion across. It seems antithetical to me. Thanks for the heads up on the movie. ☺ Peace, Lorraine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 The reason there is more than one book, article, movie, etc. on any subject is because there isn't only one way that people take in information and learn from it. I don't appreciate being told on a vegetarian family list that I'm not a good enough vegetarian parent because one of my children doesn't respond to the compassion for animals argument. Thank you, Alan, for your compassion and diplomacy. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 :-) Jacqueline. You are so eloquent. On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar <jbwrote: > > > Lorraine asked: " I’m just wondering what the he-- has happened to our > > society that we need to see live skinned animals to have compassion for > animals? " > > Because we live in an " out of sight out of mind " world. The atrocities > being hidden behind the closed doors has kept people in the dark for far > too long. McDonald's sells billions of dollars per year worth of animals > on buns, as they are referred to in our house. But people line up to get > them all day long because the atrocities are so nicely hidden and in its > place are images flooding the television, billboards, magazines, etc. of > " nice " meat/dinner/lunch options. Pictures showing families having a > wonderful time as they partake in the eating of flesh. They don't have a > clue about the industry they are supporting when they buy such products > (the vast majority). > > What comes first, the compassion or witnessing suffering? For me, I > think it started from seeing suffering as a young child. I grew up in > Northern Michigan. We had loads of fishing and deer hunting each year. > At age 10 I hung my pole up in the garage and announced that I would > never again fish because I thought it was wrong (my family thought I had > lost my mind). Why did I come to that conclusion? Because I stood next > to the wooden table each summer, watching my mother beat live fish over > the head to kill them, then scale it, and then hand them to my > grandfather, who then filleted them. > > Each November marked the opening of deer hunting season and it also > meant that disgusting buck poles would be put up all over town (if you > don't know what a deer buck pole is, google it). I used to see the > bloody deer, 10-20 at a time hanging their with a noose around their > neck (the hunters didn't hide it from the world). I used to see them > dead and gutted, slung across people's vehicles as they headed home > after having a good " take " that weekend. > > I didn't need video footage to see such acts. They weren't even around > back then. Back then I saw them first hand. And they made me who I am > today. Compassion came to me after witnessing the inhumane treatment and > suffering of other beings. My family is not and never was vegetarian > growing up and never once taught me one shred of information about > having compassion from animals. I learned from what I saw. > > It would be wonderful if we lived in a world where everyone taught their > children compassion. But that's simply not the case. It's being taught > (at least regarding all animals, not just pets) to probably 3 percent of > the children in this country. And some may never be exposed in person to > the things that I was. So having video footage, a documenation of what > is really happening, can be a powerful and eye-opening educational tool. > Someone may see it, that has never been taught compassion, and they will > feel it, just like I did with the buck poles and dying fish. Hopefully, > generations to come can one day look back upon such video documentations > and talk about how we as a society USED to treat animals. That's the > point. :-) > > As long as restaurants can put out footage/videos/ads of the finished > product, then we should put out images of how it got to that point. > Omnivores should not be spared the sight of what they have created and > are contributing to. Not at all. > > Your son is young, as are mine. But you may need to arm with more > " evidence " of what really goes on when he starts getting birthday party > invitations to McDonald's and such. They make it look nice, sweet, > innocent, but it's far from it. Seeing is truly believing... on that > note. This morning I was reading something written by Tolstoy in the > book Ethical Vegetarianism (excellent book I've had for a while). He > didn't become a vegetarian until like his late 50's. But he start > feeling compassion for animals at that time. And he HAD to go take a > tour of a slaughterhouse. In this piece, he writes about what he > witnessed, and how awful he thought it was. But he just felt that he HAD > to see it for himself. I'm the same way. I want to watch those videos. > Not because I enjoy them, but because I think they are important to the > cause, invoking change, and recording history. > > Jacqueline (sorry so long) > > > -- Regards, Vibeke " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you should avoid foods that have labels. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 I think that there are various reasons for being a vegetarian and it doesn't matter if it's for health reasons, to stop animal cruelty or because of the environmental impact. My children know and understand what happens to the animals they choose to eat at their father's house, but as time goes by it is often " forgotten " by their young minds. My 13 year old wrote a very detailed essay about the environmental impact of raising animals for food and based on that new information he has decided to give up land animals' flesh, but still consume eggs and milk. He would like to give up these products, but is still struggling, My 8 year old has asked to watch " Meet Your Meat " , but I fear the images will haunt him, so I give him the basic idea, which up until now has been enough. We have watched Processed People and that video encouraged all three of them to give up processed foods. My 5 year old calls himself a " meativore " because he loves bacon! I told him, No, dear, you're a vegan, but no, he insists he loves bacon and cannot truly call himself a vegetarian. I hope that as all three of them grow up they will come to identify as I have, that animals products are not healthy and that is as good as any other reason for giving up animal foods. We don't need to argue about our reasons for not eating meat, just all know that we are doing a service to the planet Earth, the animals who inhabit it and to future generations. On Tue, Jun 23, 2009 at 3:37 PM, ERB <bakwin wrote: > > > The reason there is more than one book, article, movie, etc. on any subject > is because there isn't only one way that people take in information and > learn from it. > > I don't appreciate being told on a vegetarian family list that I'm not a > good enough vegetarian parent because one of my children doesn't respond to > the compassion for animals argument. > > Thank you, Alan, for your compassion and diplomacy. > > Liz > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 23, 2009 Report Share Posted June 23, 2009 Hi Jacqueline, Oh, sorry, I was being more rhetorical with my question – of course the media and our society is what influences people’s beliefs – agreed. I guess my concern is much more about exposing kids to these images – adults can do whatever they like, but I worry about what it does to kids mentally. I mean, you were obviously affected by the violence toward animals when you were a kid. I grew up in Southern California in a farming, hunting, fishing family, in an agricultural community where 4H pets were butchered upon sale and kids were expected to just start over again with a new animal. I share some of your experiences. And that’s why I’m sheltering my son from them. The same way I don’t tell him when a violent serial rapist is on the loose in our town, or when a child molester didn’t get enough jail time, or when a children’s hospital is hit with a bomb in a warzone. He’s just not old enough for violent, non-sensical, traumatizing news. And I truly believe, because of how our son has learned compassion via our vegetarianism, that kids can easily learn from being taught compassion and don’t require shocking/core-shaking images. Maybe adults need to be shocked (maybe not), but I just don’t think small, tender, loving children really need that. I think shocking them the least amount we can is the most compassionate parenting, too. I agree that Earthlings is news – to most all people. I agree that most kids aren’t raised like ours is being raised – and for that I am overjoyed at the choices we’re making and proud that we can make a different path for child. I’m sure things will come up in the future where he wants more info, but we’ll do it in an age-appropriate way. And I guess I also count myself lucky that we’ve been able to surround ourselves with like-minded friends so that I can’t imagine being invited to a McD’s birthday party, and can’t imagine our son wanting to go if we were. (He understands that McD’s is “for meat eaters.”) I should also mention that I’m a social worker with clinical experience in child abuse and child trauma treatment, and so I approach everything from the slant of how it will affect a child’s long-term psyche and development. And I’ve read far too much and researched and written far too much on the effect of violence on a child – whether they are victims or witnesses. What is found in the research time and again (mine and other researchers’) is that children are affected in the exact same way by being abused or watching someone else be abused – same anxiety, depression, aggression, etc. as a result. So, I’m extra careful about stuff like this. And I’m not interested in feeding nightmares in my sensitive child – as we’ve found that things you wouldn’t even think were scary can cause nightmares, I can assure this real life nightmare material would be unnecessary. Have a peaceful afternoon, Lorraine On Behalf Of Jacqueline Bodnar Tuesday, June 23, 2009 11:33 AM RE: Re: Earthlings movie Lorraine asked: " I’m just wondering what the he-- has happened to our society that we need to see live skinned animals to have compassion for animals? " Because we live in an " out of sight out of mind " world. The atrocities being hidden behind the closed doors has kept people in the dark for far too long. McDonald's sells billions of dollars per year worth of animals on buns, as they are referred to in our house. But people line up to get them all day long because the atrocities are so nicely hidden and in its place are images flooding the television, billboards, magazines, etc. of " nice " meat/dinner/lunch options. Pictures showing families having a wonderful time as they partake in the eating of flesh. They don't have a clue about the industry they are supporting when they buy such products (the vast majority). What comes first, the compassion or witnessing suffering? For me, I think it started from seeing suffering as a young child. I grew up in Northern Michigan. We had loads of fishing and deer hunting each year. At age 10 I hung my pole up in the garage and announced that I would never again fish because I thought it was wrong (my family thought I had lost my mind). Why did I come to that conclusion? Because I stood next to the wooden table each summer, watching my mother beat live fish over the head to kill them, then scale it, and then hand them to my grandfather, who then filleted them. Each November marked the opening of deer hunting season and it also meant that disgusting buck poles would be put up all over town (if you don't know what a deer buck pole is, google it). I used to see the bloody deer, 10-20 at a time hanging their with a noose around their neck (the hunters didn't hide it from the world). I used to see them dead and gutted, slung across people's vehicles as they headed home after having a good " take " that weekend. I didn't need video footage to see such acts. They weren't even around back then. Back then I saw them first hand. And they made me who I am today. Compassion came to me after witnessing the inhumane treatment and suffering of other beings. My family is not and never was vegetarian growing up and never once taught me one shred of information about having compassion from animals. I learned from what I saw. It would be wonderful if we lived in a world where everyone taught their children compassion. But that's simply not the case. It's being taught (at least regarding all animals, not just pets) to probably 3 percent of the children in this country. And some may never be exposed in person to the things that I was. So having video footage, a documenation of what is really happening, can be a powerful and eye-opening educational tool. Someone may see it, that has never been taught compassion, and they will feel it, just like I did with the buck poles and dying fish. Hopefully, generations to come can one day look back upon such video documentations and talk about how we as a society USED to treat animals. That's the point. :-) As long as restaurants can put out footage/videos/ads of the finished product, then we should put out images of how it got to that point. Omnivores should not be spared the sight of what they have created and are contributing to. Not at all. Your son is young, as are mine. But you may need to arm with more " evidence " of what really goes on when he starts getting birthday party invitations to McDonald's and such. They make it look nice, sweet, innocent, but it's far from it. Seeing is truly believing... on that note. This morning I was reading something written by Tolstoy in the book Ethical Vegetarianism (excellent book I've had for a while). He didn't become a vegetarian until like his late 50's. But he start feeling compassion for animals at that time. And he HAD to go take a tour of a slaughterhouse. In this piece, he writes about what he witnessed, and how awful he thought it was. But he just felt that he HAD to see it for himself. I'm the same way. I want to watch those videos. Not because I enjoy them, but because I think they are important to the cause, invoking change, and recording history. Jacqueline (sorry so long) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 Amity: I know now that I don't need to see that to reafirm my beliefs. No, I don't think any of us do. But, it makes me have less patience for those " unaware omnivores " ! I'm not sure how to deal with this...especially when it comes to friends & family! Ugh, June - havingagreatfulday Tuesday, June 23, 2009 10:50 AM Re: Earthlings movie Those that truely do not know or refuse to see are the ones that are smiling. I was trying to give us a pat on the back for opening our minds to an uneasy reality. I am proud of everyone on this group for standing up for what they believe in. Weather they can watch Earthlings or not. I thought I could so I watched the trailer, I know now that I don't need to see that to reafirm my beliefs. Some of the images are forever burned in my mind. I wouldn't be able to sit through it. I could barely make it through meet your meat, which is only a fraction in length of this movie. But I think that every omnivore should be required to see it. Then they would join the enlightened side! (I hope) Amity , " June Waterman " <june wrote: > > I'm just saying that one difficult thing in life is to accept the hard truth, and then challenge myself and others to do the right thing. > If people are unaware of how harsh the truth is, then they will ignorantly and blissfully continue to eat bacon, wear leather and go to the circus. > Historically, the human race only changes when faced with crisis. I think this film accurately depicts animals in crisis. > I'm not sure who is smiling??? > - > havingagreatfulday > > Monday, June 22, 2009 2:42 PM > Re: Earthlings movie > > > > > > , " June Waterman " <june@> wrote: > > > > Why? Because it's the truth. Truth hurts, and ignorance is bliss. > > If people are ignorant to what really happens, then change will never come. > > > If ignorance is bliss then wipe the smiles off of our faces. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 Jacqueline, You have completely misconstrued what I've written - and my apology that you didn't understand what I wrote the first time. And I find your comments offensive in comparing me directly to omnivore parents as if I care as little about animals as those who eat them, just because I refuse to subject my child to violent images. Your viewpoint is surely not the only one and everyone else (including others on this list who happen to have different views) are surely not just wrong and evil. My point is that children are affected by any kind of violence, period. Of course I believe that hunting/fishing affects kids long-term, you may have misread what I wrote - I agreed with you on that - repeatedly. But my other point was that we can teach our children with peaceful means rather than violent means and have the same outcome of compassion - which I also stated repeatedly. I do not appreciate your caustic response. Lorraine On Behalf Of Jacqueline Bodnar Wednesday, June 24, 2009 6:25 AM RE: Re: Earthlings movie Lorraine, I'm curious if you think it's doing long term harm if a parent takes a child out fishing or hunting? I see kids as young as 3 and 4 years old being taken out, pole in hand, learning to kill other species. Same with hunting. Youngsters can hunt from a very young age. All includes killing, blood and guts, etc. So in your opinion, does that also create long term harm? Or is it only vegetarian parents that want to teach their kids about the same things, yet teach them compassion instead of cooking it for dinner....? Jacqueline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 24, 2009 Report Share Posted June 24, 2009 This conversation has strayed from the original poster's point that Earthlings is a movie that is both deeply moving and difficult to watch. I have seen things that I wish I could un-see; images of such cruelty burned into my mind. I do not want my young children to be scarred the way I feel I have been scarred viewing animals being skinned alive or a cow butchered while still conscious and looking around or seeing calves ripped from their mothers only hours old and put into pens to be starved for veal. I can tell them that this happens and they can see it when they get older. My 8 year old son can handle more mature matter than my 13 year old son can, I know that if I let them watch Earthlings it would scar them and as a loving parent I certainly don't want that. HOWEVER, I agree that it's important that they truly know what is happening in factory farming both for fur and for meat and I will answer every question as it comes and provide visuals only when necessary. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar <jbwrote: > > > > > Lorraine, > > I didn't appreciate your response as well... Your response was also a > bit caustic, as you implied that I am doing long term damage to my kids > by teaching them about the atrocities of the meat industry. You even > went so far as to throw out your professional credentials to try to lend > weight to that fact. > > I make the comparison to omnivore parents because they also want to > shield their children from the meat industry realities. If you ever even > bring it up they say " I don't want to know. " After taking my niece to > see the movie Babe many years ago she asked me what hamburger was. I > told her it was cows. Her mother had a fit and explained to her that it > is special cows. Not real ones like she sees on the side of the road. > She shielded he from the harshness of the industry and your remarks made > me think of how I've come across many of them doing that. > > It was seeing true images as a child that made me compassionate toward > animals today. Maybe shielding your child from them will work. And that > is great if it does. But for me, seeing it worked, and that's the route > I'm going to take with my kids. We each make our own decisions in life > and I don't believe that I'm causing long term harm by showing them the > images. Violent images as you put it. Yes, meat is violent. Very > violent. And I want them to be completely aware of that. > > Anyway, I'm done... I feel like I've been typing a book this week on > here! My apologies if anyone is offended. It is never my intent to > offend. You all can carry on with this without me. I'm just repeating > myself too much. :-) > > Best, > Jacqueline > > > -- Regards, Vibeke " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you should avoid foods that have labels. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Well-reasoned, Vibeke. I feel the same. I totally believe in telling kids the truth (and showing them, even), but the operative term being 'age appropriate'. I don't to the belief that just because something's 'real' means that kids should be exposed to it- I would hope that we're all sheltering our small children from images of sex, among other things, that are considered 'real'. I don't feel that my children need to see some of things I've read about here ( I didn't even want to READ about them- and started deleting the posts related to this thread at one point- and not because I don't know that they're happening, but because I find them so sickening and don't want to fixate on them as I'm prone to do). j. ________________________________ Vibeke Vale <vibekevale Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:26:23 PM Re: Re: Earthlings movie This conversation has strayed from the original poster's point that Earthlings is a movie that is both deeply moving and difficult to watch. I have seen things that I wish I could un-see; images of such cruelty burned into my mind. I do not want my young children to be scarred the way I feel I have been scarred viewing animals being skinned alive or a cow butchered while still conscious and looking around or seeing calves ripped from their mothers only hours old and put into pens to be starved for veal. I can tell them that this happens and they can see it when they get older. My 8 year old son can handle more mature matter than my 13 year old son can, I know that if I let them watch Earthlings it would scar them and as a loving parent I certainly don't want that. HOWEVER, I agree that it's important that they truly know what is happening in factory farming both for fur and for meat and I will answer every question as it comes and provide visuals only when necessary. On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar <jb@jacquelinebodnar .com>wrote: > > > > > Lorraine, > > I didn't appreciate your response as well... Your response was also a > bit caustic, as you implied that I am doing long term damage to my kids > by teaching them about the atrocities of the meat industry. You even > went so far as to throw out your professional credentials to try to lend > weight to that fact. > > I make the comparison to omnivore parents because they also want to > shield their children from the meat industry realities. If you ever even > bring it up they say " I don't want to know. " After taking my niece to > see the movie Babe many years ago she asked me what hamburger was. I > told her it was cows. Her mother had a fit and explained to her that it > is special cows. Not real ones like she sees on the side of the road. > She shielded he from the harshness of the industry and your remarks made > me think of how I've come across many of them doing that. > > It was seeing true images as a child that made me compassionate toward > animals today. Maybe shielding your child from them will work. And that > is great if it does. But for me, seeing it worked, and that's the route > I'm going to take with my kids. We each make our own decisions in life > and I don't believe that I'm causing long term harm by showing them the > images. Violent images as you put it. Yes, meat is violent. Very > violent. And I want them to be completely aware of that. > > Anyway, I'm done... I feel like I've been typing a book this week on > here! My apologies if anyone is offended. It is never my intent to > offend. You all can carry on with this without me. I'm just repeating > myself too much. :-) > > Best, > Jacqueline > > > -- Regards, Vibeke " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you should avoid foods that have labels. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Same here. I think there's a middle ground between showing these images to your child, and pretending it doesn't happen and teaching them all that " Oh here's Farmer Joe giving Betsy her morning milking with a loving pat " crap. I can't handle looking at those images, they sear into my brain and my haunt me. But I am fully aware that they're there and I know that I am living in a way that as much as possible, I am not contributing to that. I take every opportunity to tell my children about it, and when they see the advertising or the sweet little books about life on a farm, or the animals in books who love to live in the zoo, we discuss it and I tell them what it's really like. But I will not show them the graphic images. My kids get upset over very minor conflict in story books so I can only imagine how they'd react. But, for other people I'm sure their children are very different from them and if it works for you, great. The other thing is, as a vegan, one of my goals is to make my life look very appealing to others -- I want people to look at our family and go Wow, they're all healthy, smart kids, slim, enjoying life, and doesn't their food taste yummy! And I want it to look pretty easy. Because I find that sort of approach gets people asking questions, and trying to reduce their own meat intake -- I think most of the people who get to know us end up drastically reducing their meat consumption, and a number have become completely vegetarian. That's the beginning of awareness. Once they get there they're more willing to learn more about all the other reasons for becoming vegetarian, and progress further-- and they start telling other people. My experience has been that if I approach it by telling people all the nasty reasons they shouldn't eat meat (take your pick -- animals, environment, health, etc...), they just retreat and put up a wall -- then I get labeled as that freaky vegetarian ;-). I think there are different types of activism and this passive kind can be very effective. I'm sure for a lot of people it's the videos and graphic footage that does it for them -- in fact it was for me, the first time I saw factory farm footage, at age 16, was the last day I ate meat. But the average person I know is simply not willing to expose themselves to that and would just be angry at me for trying to show them, which doesn't help. I'm sure we all live in different types of communities and are surrounded by different attitudes, values and experiences. We don't have to agree on one way to do it, we're all working for the same thing from different directions. Heather 2009/6/25 jenni claire garverick <jennigarverick > > > Well-reasoned, Vibeke. I feel the same. I totally believe in telling kids > the truth (and showing them, even), but the operative term being 'age > appropriate'. I don't to the belief that just because something's > 'real' means that kids should be exposed to it- I would hope that we're all > sheltering our small children from images of sex, among other things, that > are considered 'real'. I don't feel that my children need to see some of > things I've read about here ( I didn't even want to READ about them- and > started deleting the posts related to this thread at one point- and not > because I don't know that they're happening, but because I find them so > sickening and don't want to fixate on them as I'm prone to do). > j. > > ________________________________ > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale <vibekevale%40gmail.com>> > <%40> > Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:26:23 PM > Re: Re: Earthlings movie > > > This conversation has strayed from the original poster's point that > Earthlings is a movie that is both deeply moving and difficult to watch. I > have seen things that I wish I could un-see; images of such cruelty burned > into my mind. I do not want my young children to be scarred the way I feel > I have been scarred viewing animals being skinned alive or a cow butchered > while still conscious and looking around or seeing calves ripped from their > mothers only hours old and put into pens to be starved for veal. I can tell > them that this happens and they can see it when they get older. My 8 year > old son can handle more mature matter than my 13 year old son can, I know > that if I let them watch Earthlings it would scar them and as a loving > parent I certainly don't want that. HOWEVER, I agree that it's important > that they truly know what is happening in factory farming both for fur and > for meat and I will answer every question as it comes and provide visuals > only when necessary. > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar > <jb@jacquelinebodnar .com>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Lorraine, > > > > I didn't appreciate your response as well... Your response was also a > > bit caustic, as you implied that I am doing long term damage to my kids > > by teaching them about the atrocities of the meat industry. You even > > went so far as to throw out your professional credentials to try to lend > > weight to that fact. > > > > I make the comparison to omnivore parents because they also want to > > shield their children from the meat industry realities. If you ever even > > bring it up they say " I don't want to know. " After taking my niece to > > see the movie Babe many years ago she asked me what hamburger was. I > > told her it was cows. Her mother had a fit and explained to her that it > > is special cows. Not real ones like she sees on the side of the road. > > She shielded he from the harshness of the industry and your remarks made > > me think of how I've come across many of them doing that. > > > > It was seeing true images as a child that made me compassionate toward > > animals today. Maybe shielding your child from them will work. And that > > is great if it does. But for me, seeing it worked, and that's the route > > I'm going to take with my kids. We each make our own decisions in life > > and I don't believe that I'm causing long term harm by showing them the > > images. Violent images as you put it. Yes, meat is violent. Very > > violent. And I want them to be completely aware of that. > > > > Anyway, I'm done... I feel like I've been typing a book this week on > > here! My apologies if anyone is offended. It is never my intent to > > offend. You all can carry on with this without me. I'm just repeating > > myself too much. :-) > > > > Best, > > Jacqueline > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > > Vibeke > > " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you should > avoid foods that have labels. " > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I don't know if I could ever show a child " earthlings " or any other similar movie, since I have not been able to sit through more than 15 minutes of it myself. On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 8:54 AM, Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 wrote: > > > Same here. I think there's a middle ground between showing these images to > your child, and pretending it doesn't happen and teaching them all that " Oh > here's Farmer Joe giving Betsy her morning milking with a loving pat " crap. > I can't handle looking at those images, they sear into my brain and my > haunt > me. But I am fully aware that they're there and I know that I am living in > a > way that as much as possible, I am not contributing to that. I take every > opportunity to tell my children about it, and when they see the advertising > or the sweet little books about life on a farm, or the animals in books who > love to live in the zoo, we discuss it and I tell them what it's really > like. But I will not show them the graphic images. My kids get upset over > very minor conflict in story books so I can only imagine how they'd react. > But, for other people I'm sure their children are very different from them > and if it works for you, great. > The other thing is, as a vegan, one of my goals is to make my life look > very > appealing to others -- I want people to look at our family and go Wow, > they're all healthy, smart kids, slim, enjoying life, and doesn't their > food > taste yummy! And I want it to look pretty easy. Because I find that sort of > approach gets people asking questions, and trying to reduce their own meat > intake -- I think most of the people who get to know us end up drastically > reducing their meat consumption, and a number have become completely > vegetarian. That's the beginning of awareness. Once they get there they're > more willing to learn more about all the other reasons for becoming > vegetarian, and progress further-- and they start telling other people. My > experience has been that if I approach it by telling people all the nasty > reasons they shouldn't eat meat (take your pick -- animals, environment, > health, etc...), they just retreat and put up a wall -- then I get labeled > as that freaky vegetarian ;-). I think there are different types of > activism > and this passive kind can be very effective. > > I'm sure for a lot of people it's the videos and graphic footage that does > it for them -- in fact it was for me, the first time I saw factory farm > footage, at age 16, was the last day I ate meat. But the average person I > know is simply not willing to expose themselves to that and would just be > angry at me for trying to show them, which doesn't help. I'm sure we all > live in different types of communities and are surrounded by different > attitudes, values and experiences. We don't have to agree on one way to do > it, we're all working for the same thing from different directions. > > Heather > > 2009/6/25 jenni claire garverick <jennigarverick<jennigarverick%40>> > > > > > > > > Well-reasoned, Vibeke. I feel the same. I totally believe in telling kids > > the truth (and showing them, even), but the operative term being 'age > > appropriate'. I don't to the belief that just because > something's > > 'real' means that kids should be exposed to it- I would hope that we're > all > > sheltering our small children from images of sex, among other things, > that > > are considered 'real'. I don't feel that my children need to see some of > > things I've read about here ( I didn't even want to READ about them- and > > started deleting the posts related to this thread at one point- and not > > because I don't know that they're happening, but because I find them so > > sickening and don't want to fixate on them as I'm prone to do). > > j. > > > > ________________________________ > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale <vibekevale%40gmail.com><vibekevale% > 40gmail.com>> > > <%40><% > 40> > > > Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:26:23 PM > > Re: Re: Earthlings movie > > > > > > This conversation has strayed from the original poster's point that > > Earthlings is a movie that is both deeply moving and difficult to watch. > I > > have seen things that I wish I could un-see; images of such cruelty > burned > > into my mind. I do not want my young children to be scarred the way I > feel > > I have been scarred viewing animals being skinned alive or a cow > butchered > > while still conscious and looking around or seeing calves ripped from > their > > mothers only hours old and put into pens to be starved for veal. I can > tell > > them that this happens and they can see it when they get older. My 8 year > > old son can handle more mature matter than my 13 year old son can, I know > > that if I let them watch Earthlings it would scar them and as a loving > > parent I certainly don't want that. HOWEVER, I agree that it's important > > that they truly know what is happening in factory farming both for fur > and > > for meat and I will answer every question as it comes and provide visuals > > only when necessary. > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar > > <jb@jacquelinebodnar .com>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lorraine, > > > > > > I didn't appreciate your response as well... Your response was also a > > > bit caustic, as you implied that I am doing long term damage to my kids > > > by teaching them about the atrocities of the meat industry. You even > > > went so far as to throw out your professional credentials to try to > lend > > > weight to that fact. > > > > > > I make the comparison to omnivore parents because they also want to > > > shield their children from the meat industry realities. If you ever > even > > > bring it up they say " I don't want to know. " After taking my niece to > > > see the movie Babe many years ago she asked me what hamburger was. I > > > told her it was cows. Her mother had a fit and explained to her that it > > > is special cows. Not real ones like she sees on the side of the road. > > > She shielded he from the harshness of the industry and your remarks > made > > > me think of how I've come across many of them doing that. > > > > > > It was seeing true images as a child that made me compassionate toward > > > animals today. Maybe shielding your child from them will work. And that > > > is great if it does. But for me, seeing it worked, and that's the route > > > I'm going to take with my kids. We each make our own decisions in life > > > and I don't believe that I'm causing long term harm by showing them the > > > images. Violent images as you put it. Yes, meat is violent. Very > > > violent. And I want them to be completely aware of that. > > > > > > Anyway, I'm done... I feel like I've been typing a book this week on > > > here! My apologies if anyone is offended. It is never my intent to > > > offend. You all can carry on with this without me. I'm just repeating > > > myself too much. :-) > > > > > > Best, > > > Jacqueline > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Vibeke > > > > " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you > should > > avoid foods that have labels. " > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Heather, There was a day I was in the grocery store not that long ago when a mother looked into my car and said to her child, " Wow, look at how healthy her cart is compared to ours, I wish we could eat like that. " I felt proud of my cart overflowing with fruits and vegetables and soy milk. It made me remember a time myself about three years ago when I thought the same thing about other people's carts. I remember thinking I should not be buying all this junk for my kids. I have never had the typical grocery cart - chips, pop, cookies, snack bars, fruit rollups etc... My kids have never eaten that stuff. Occasionally sure, but not at every shopping trip. Actually, one day I was in the grocery store and the people in front me had over $100 worth of product in their cart but no food. It was all cases of pop, junk food, packaged food and meats. No fruits, no vegetables, no quality grains. I was astonished and saddened at the way these people were feeding their kids. No wonder 50% of American children are overfed, overweight and under nourished. I could go on and on forever, but you're right, leading by example may be a passive approach, but it's still effective. Vibeke On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 wrote: > > > Same here. I think there's a middle ground between showing these images to > your child, and pretending it doesn't happen and teaching them all that " Oh > here's Farmer Joe giving Betsy her morning milking with a loving pat " crap. > I can't handle looking at those images, they sear into my brain and my > haunt > me. But I am fully aware that they're there and I know that I am living in > a > way that as much as possible, I am not contributing to that. I take every > opportunity to tell my children about it, and when they see the advertising > or the sweet little books about life on a farm, or the animals in books who > love to live in the zoo, we discuss it and I tell them what it's really > like. But I will not show them the graphic images. My kids get upset over > very minor conflict in story books so I can only imagine how they'd react. > But, for other people I'm sure their children are very different from them > and if it works for you, great. > The other thing is, as a vegan, one of my goals is to make my life look > very > appealing to others -- I want people to look at our family and go Wow, > they're all healthy, smart kids, slim, enjoying life, and doesn't their > food > taste yummy! And I want it to look pretty easy. Because I find that sort of > approach gets people asking questions, and trying to reduce their own meat > intake -- I think most of the people who get to know us end up drastically > reducing their meat consumption, and a number have become completely > vegetarian. That's the beginning of awareness. Once they get there they're > more willing to learn more about all the other reasons for becoming > vegetarian, and progress further-- and they start telling other people. My > experience has been that if I approach it by telling people all the nasty > reasons they shouldn't eat meat (take your pick -- animals, environment, > health, etc...), they just retreat and put up a wall -- then I get labeled > as that freaky vegetarian ;-). I think there are different types of > activism > and this passive kind can be very effective. > > I'm sure for a lot of people it's the videos and graphic footage that does > it for them -- in fact it was for me, the first time I saw factory farm > footage, at age 16, was the last day I ate meat. But the average person I > know is simply not willing to expose themselves to that and would just be > angry at me for trying to show them, which doesn't help. I'm sure we all > live in different types of communities and are surrounded by different > attitudes, values and experiences. We don't have to agree on one way to do > it, we're all working for the same thing from different directions. > > Heather > > 2009/6/25 jenni claire garverick <jennigarverick<jennigarverick%40> > > > > > > > > > > Well-reasoned, Vibeke. I feel the same. I totally believe in telling kids > > the truth (and showing them, even), but the operative term being 'age > > appropriate'. I don't to the belief that just because > something's > > 'real' means that kids should be exposed to it- I would hope that we're > all > > sheltering our small children from images of sex, among other things, > that > > are considered 'real'. I don't feel that my children need to see some of > > things I've read about here ( I didn't even want to READ about them- and > > started deleting the posts related to this thread at one point- and not > > because I don't know that they're happening, but because I find them so > > sickening and don't want to fixate on them as I'm prone to do). > > j. > > > > ________________________________ > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale <vibekevale%40gmail.com><vibekevale% > 40gmail.com>> > > <%40><% > 40> > > > Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:26:23 PM > > Re: Re: Earthlings movie > > > > > > This conversation has strayed from the original poster's point that > > Earthlings is a movie that is both deeply moving and difficult to watch. > I > > have seen things that I wish I could un-see; images of such cruelty > burned > > into my mind. I do not want my young children to be scarred the way I > feel > > I have been scarred viewing animals being skinned alive or a cow > butchered > > while still conscious and looking around or seeing calves ripped from > their > > mothers only hours old and put into pens to be starved for veal. I can > tell > > them that this happens and they can see it when they get older. My 8 year > > old son can handle more mature matter than my 13 year old son can, I know > > that if I let them watch Earthlings it would scar them and as a loving > > parent I certainly don't want that. HOWEVER, I agree that it's important > > that they truly know what is happening in factory farming both for fur > and > > for meat and I will answer every question as it comes and provide visuals > > only when necessary. > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar > > <jb@jacquelinebodnar .com>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lorraine, > > > > > > I didn't appreciate your response as well... Your response was also a > > > bit caustic, as you implied that I am doing long term damage to my kids > > > by teaching them about the atrocities of the meat industry. You even > > > went so far as to throw out your professional credentials to try to > lend > > > weight to that fact. > > > > > > I make the comparison to omnivore parents because they also want to > > > shield their children from the meat industry realities. If you ever > even > > > bring it up they say " I don't want to know. " After taking my niece to > > > see the movie Babe many years ago she asked me what hamburger was. I > > > told her it was cows. Her mother had a fit and explained to her that it > > > is special cows. Not real ones like she sees on the side of the road. > > > She shielded he from the harshness of the industry and your remarks > made > > > me think of how I've come across many of them doing that. > > > > > > It was seeing true images as a child that made me compassionate toward > > > animals today. Maybe shielding your child from them will work. And that > > > is great if it does. But for me, seeing it worked, and that's the route > > > I'm going to take with my kids. We each make our own decisions in life > > > and I don't believe that I'm causing long term harm by showing them the > > > images. Violent images as you put it. Yes, meat is violent. Very > > > violent. And I want them to be completely aware of that. > > > > > > Anyway, I'm done... I feel like I've been typing a book this week on > > > here! My apologies if anyone is offended. It is never my intent to > > > offend. You all can carry on with this without me. I'm just repeating > > > myself too much. :-) > > > > > > Best, > > > Jacqueline > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Vibeke > > > > " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you > should > > avoid foods that have labels. " > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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