Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Hi Vibeke, What is the origin of the 50% statistic? It sounds reasonable, but I am curious where it came from. Robin ________________________________ Vibeke Vale <vibekevale Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:17:58 AM Re: Re: Earthlings movie Heather, There was a day I was in the grocery store not that long ago when a mother looked into my car and said to her child, " Wow, look at how healthy her cart is compared to ours, I wish we could eat like that. " I felt proud of my cart overflowing with fruits and vegetables and soy milk. It made me remember a time myself about three years ago when I thought the same thing about other people's carts. I remember thinking I should not be buying all this junk for my kids. I have never had the typical grocery cart - chips, pop, cookies, snack bars, fruit rollups etc... My kids have never eaten that stuff. Occasionally sure, but not at every shopping trip. Actually, one day I was in the grocery store and the people in front me had over $100 worth of product in their cart but no food. It was all cases of pop, junk food, packaged food and meats. No fruits, no vegetables, no quality grains. I was astonished and saddened at the way these people were feeding their kids. No wonder 50% of American children are overfed, overweight and under nourished. I could go on and on forever, but you're right, leading by example may be a passive approach, but it's still effective. Vibeke On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: > > > Same here. I think there's a middle ground between showing these images to > your child, and pretending it doesn't happen and teaching them all that " Oh > here's Farmer Joe giving Betsy her morning milking with a loving pat " crap. > I can't handle looking at those images, they sear into my brain and my > haunt > me. But I am fully aware that they're there and I know that I am living in > a > way that as much as possible, I am not contributing to that. I take every > opportunity to tell my children about it, and when they see the advertising > or the sweet little books about life on a farm, or the animals in books who > love to live in the zoo, we discuss it and I tell them what it's really > like. But I will not show them the graphic images. My kids get upset over > very minor conflict in story books so I can only imagine how they'd react. > But, for other people I'm sure their children are very different from them > and if it works for you, great. > The other thing is, as a vegan, one of my goals is to make my life look > very > appealing to others -- I want people to look at our family and go Wow, > they're all healthy, smart kids, slim, enjoying life, and doesn't their > food > taste yummy! And I want it to look pretty easy. Because I find that sort of > approach gets people asking questions, and trying to reduce their own meat > intake -- I think most of the people who get to know us end up drastically > reducing their meat consumption, and a number have become completely > vegetarian. That's the beginning of awareness. Once they get there they're > more willing to learn more about all the other reasons for becoming > vegetarian, and progress further-- and they start telling other people. My > experience has been that if I approach it by telling people all the nasty > reasons they shouldn't eat meat (take your pick -- animals, environment, > health, etc...), they just retreat and put up a wall -- then I get labeled > as that freaky vegetarian ;-). I think there are different types of > activism > and this passive kind can be very effective. > > I'm sure for a lot of people it's the videos and graphic footage that does > it for them -- in fact it was for me, the first time I saw factory farm > footage, at age 16, was the last day I ate meat. But the average person I > know is simply not willing to expose themselves to that and would just be > angry at me for trying to show them, which doesn't help. I'm sure we all > live in different types of communities and are surrounded by different > attitudes, values and experiences. We don't have to agree on one way to do > it, we're all working for the same thing from different directions. > > Heather > > 2009/6/25 jenni claire garverick <jennigarverick@ <jennigarverick% 40> > > > > > > > > > > Well-reasoned, Vibeke. I feel the same. I totally believe in telling kids > > the truth (and showing them, even), but the operative term being 'age > > appropriate' . I don't to the belief that just because > something's > > 'real' means that kids should be exposed to it- I would hope that we're > all > > sheltering our small children from images of sex, among other things, > that > > are considered 'real'. I don't feel that my children need to see some of > > things I've read about here ( I didn't even want to READ about them- and > > started deleting the posts related to this thread at one point- and not > > because I don't know that they're happening, but because I find them so > > sickening and don't want to fixate on them as I'm prone to do). > > j. > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale (AT) gmail (DOT) com <vibekevale% 40gmail.com> <vibekevale% > 40gmail.com> > > > @gro ups.com <% 40. com><% > 40. com> > > > Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:26:23 PM > > Re: Re: Earthlings movie > > > > > > This conversation has strayed from the original poster's point that > > Earthlings is a movie that is both deeply moving and difficult to watch. > I > > have seen things that I wish I could un-see; images of such cruelty > burned > > into my mind. I do not want my young children to be scarred the way I > feel > > I have been scarred viewing animals being skinned alive or a cow > butchered > > while still conscious and looking around or seeing calves ripped from > their > > mothers only hours old and put into pens to be starved for veal. I can > tell > > them that this happens and they can see it when they get older. My 8 year > > old son can handle more mature matter than my 13 year old son can, I know > > that if I let them watch Earthlings it would scar them and as a loving > > parent I certainly don't want that. HOWEVER, I agree that it's important > > that they truly know what is happening in factory farming both for fur > and > > for meat and I will answer every question as it comes and provide visuals > > only when necessary. > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar > > <jb@jacquelinebodna r .com>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lorraine, > > > > > > I didn't appreciate your response as well... Your response was also a > > > bit caustic, as you implied that I am doing long term damage to my kids > > > by teaching them about the atrocities of the meat industry. You even > > > went so far as to throw out your professional credentials to try to > lend > > > weight to that fact. > > > > > > I make the comparison to omnivore parents because they also want to > > > shield their children from the meat industry realities. If you ever > even > > > bring it up they say " I don't want to know. " After taking my niece to > > > see the movie Babe many years ago she asked me what hamburger was. I > > > told her it was cows. Her mother had a fit and explained to her that it > > > is special cows. Not real ones like she sees on the side of the road. > > > She shielded he from the harshness of the industry and your remarks > made > > > me think of how I've come across many of them doing that. > > > > > > It was seeing true images as a child that made me compassionate toward > > > animals today. Maybe shielding your child from them will work. And that > > > is great if it does. But for me, seeing it worked, and that's the route > > > I'm going to take with my kids. We each make our own decisions in life > > > and I don't believe that I'm causing long term harm by showing them the > > > images. Violent images as you put it. Yes, meat is violent. Very > > > violent. And I want them to be completely aware of that. > > > > > > Anyway, I'm done... I feel like I've been typing a book this week on > > > here! My apologies if anyone is offended. It is never my intent to > > > offend. You all can carry on with this without me. I'm just repeating > > > myself too much. :-) > > > > > > Best, > > > Jacqueline > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Regards, > > > > Vibeke > > > > " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you > should > > avoid foods that have labels. " > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 I have heard that the movie is EXCELLENT and is a must see, but like you I have only watched about the first 15 minutes and then I was crying so bad I had to turn it off. I'm a wimp and the images have seared themselves into my head. One day I'll get up the nerve though and watch it to completion. , kerri myers <4lilpups wrote: > > I don't know if I could ever show a child " earthlings " or any other similar > movie, since I have not been able to sit through more than 15 minutes of it > myself. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Robin, that's a good question. I actually heard it on the news yesterday, but let me see if can find the legitimate statistic origin. Here is one link: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-03-05-childhood-obesity_x.htm On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM, robin koloms <rkoloms wrote: > > > Hi Vibeke, > > What is the origin of the 50% statistic? It sounds reasonable, but I am > curious where it came from. > > Robin > > ________________________________ > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale <vibekevale%40gmail.com>> > <%40> > Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:17:58 AM > Re: Re: Earthlings movie > > Heather, > > There was a day I was in the grocery store not that long ago when a mother > looked into my car and said to her child, " Wow, look at how healthy her > cart > is compared to ours, I wish we could eat like that. " I felt proud of my > cart overflowing with fruits and vegetables and soy milk. It made me > remember a time myself about three years ago when I thought the same thing > about other people's carts. I remember thinking I should not be buying all > this junk for my kids. I have never had the typical grocery cart - chips, > pop, cookies, snack bars, fruit rollups etc... My kids have never eaten > that > stuff. Occasionally sure, but not at every shopping trip. Actually, one > day I was in the grocery store and the people in front me had over $100 > worth of product in their cart but no food. It was all cases of pop, junk > food, packaged food and meats. No fruits, no vegetables, no quality > grains. I was astonished and saddened at the way these people were feeding > their kids. No wonder 50% of American children are overfed, overweight and > under nourished. I could go on and on forever, but you're right, leading by > example may be a passive approach, but it's still effective. > > Vibeke > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Same here. I think there's a middle ground between showing these images > to > > your child, and pretending it doesn't happen and teaching them all that > " Oh > > here's Farmer Joe giving Betsy her morning milking with a loving pat " > crap. > > I can't handle looking at those images, they sear into my brain and my > > haunt > > me. But I am fully aware that they're there and I know that I am living > in > > a > > way that as much as possible, I am not contributing to that. I take every > > opportunity to tell my children about it, and when they see the > advertising > > or the sweet little books about life on a farm, or the animals in books > who > > love to live in the zoo, we discuss it and I tell them what it's really > > like. But I will not show them the graphic images. My kids get upset over > > very minor conflict in story books so I can only imagine how they'd > react. > > But, for other people I'm sure their children are very different from > them > > and if it works for you, great. > > The other thing is, as a vegan, one of my goals is to make my life look > > very > > appealing to others -- I want people to look at our family and go Wow, > > they're all healthy, smart kids, slim, enjoying life, and doesn't their > > food > > taste yummy! And I want it to look pretty easy. Because I find that sort > of > > approach gets people asking questions, and trying to reduce their own > meat > > intake -- I think most of the people who get to know us end up > drastically > > reducing their meat consumption, and a number have become completely > > vegetarian. That's the beginning of awareness. Once they get there > they're > > more willing to learn more about all the other reasons for becoming > > vegetarian, and progress further-- and they start telling other people. > My > > experience has been that if I approach it by telling people all the nasty > > reasons they shouldn't eat meat (take your pick -- animals, environment, > > health, etc...), they just retreat and put up a wall -- then I get > labeled > > as that freaky vegetarian ;-). I think there are different types of > > activism > > and this passive kind can be very effective. > > > > I'm sure for a lot of people it's the videos and graphic footage that > does > > it for them -- in fact it was for me, the first time I saw factory farm > > footage, at age 16, was the last day I ate meat. But the average person I > > know is simply not willing to expose themselves to that and would just be > > angry at me for trying to show them, which doesn't help. I'm sure we all > > live in different types of communities and are surrounded by different > > attitudes, values and experiences. We don't have to agree on one way to > do > > it, we're all working for the same thing from different directions. > > > > Heather > > > > 2009/6/25 jenni claire garverick <jennigarverick@ <jennigarverick% > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well-reasoned, Vibeke. I feel the same. I totally believe in telling > kids > > > the truth (and showing them, even), but the operative term being 'age > > > appropriate' . I don't to the belief that just because > > something's > > > 'real' means that kids should be exposed to it- I would hope that we're > > all > > > sheltering our small children from images of sex, among other things, > > that > > > are considered 'real'. I don't feel that my children need to see some > of > > > things I've read about here ( I didn't even want to READ about them- > and > > > started deleting the posts related to this thread at one point- and not > > > because I don't know that they're happening, but because I find them so > > > sickening and don't want to fixate on them as I'm prone to do). > > > j. > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale (AT) gmail (DOT) com <vibekevale% 40gmail.com> > <vibekevale% > > 40gmail.com> > > > > @gro ups.com <% 40. > com><% > > 40. com> > > > > > Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:26:23 PM > > > Re: Re: Earthlings movie > > > > > > > > > This conversation has strayed from the original poster's point that > > > Earthlings is a movie that is both deeply moving and difficult to > watch. > > I > > > have seen things that I wish I could un-see; images of such cruelty > > burned > > > into my mind. I do not want my young children to be scarred the way I > > feel > > > I have been scarred viewing animals being skinned alive or a cow > > butchered > > > while still conscious and looking around or seeing calves ripped from > > their > > > mothers only hours old and put into pens to be starved for veal. I can > > tell > > > them that this happens and they can see it when they get older. My 8 > year > > > old son can handle more mature matter than my 13 year old son can, I > know > > > that if I let them watch Earthlings it would scar them and as a loving > > > parent I certainly don't want that. HOWEVER, I agree that it's > important > > > that they truly know what is happening in factory farming both for fur > > and > > > for meat and I will answer every question as it comes and provide > visuals > > > only when necessary. > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar > > > <jb@jacquelinebodna r .com>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lorraine, > > > > > > > > I didn't appreciate your response as well... Your response was also a > > > > bit caustic, as you implied that I am doing long term damage to my > kids > > > > by teaching them about the atrocities of the meat industry. You even > > > > went so far as to throw out your professional credentials to try to > > lend > > > > weight to that fact. > > > > > > > > I make the comparison to omnivore parents because they also want to > > > > shield their children from the meat industry realities. If you ever > > even > > > > bring it up they say " I don't want to know. " After taking my niece to > > > > see the movie Babe many years ago she asked me what hamburger was. I > > > > told her it was cows. Her mother had a fit and explained to her that > it > > > > is special cows. Not real ones like she sees on the side of the road. > > > > She shielded he from the harshness of the industry and your remarks > > made > > > > me think of how I've come across many of them doing that. > > > > > > > > It was seeing true images as a child that made me compassionate > toward > > > > animals today. Maybe shielding your child from them will work. And > that > > > > is great if it does. But for me, seeing it worked, and that's the > route > > > > I'm going to take with my kids. We each make our own decisions in > life > > > > and I don't believe that I'm causing long term harm by showing them > the > > > > images. Violent images as you put it. Yes, meat is violent. Very > > > > violent. And I want them to be completely aware of that. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I'm done... I feel like I've been typing a book this week on > > > > here! My apologies if anyone is offended. It is never my intent to > > > > offend. You all can carry on with this without me. I'm just repeating > > > > myself too much. :-) > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Jacqueline > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > > > > Vibeke > > > > > > " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you > > should > > > avoid foods that have labels. " > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Thank you! ________________________________ Vibeke Vale <vibekevale Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:10:52 AM Re: Re: Earthlings movie Robin, that's a good question. I actually heard it on the news yesterday, but let me see if can find the legitimate statistic origin. Here is one link: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2006-03-05-childhood-obesity_x.htm On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:52 AM, robin koloms <rkoloms > wrote: > > > Hi Vibeke, > > What is the origin of the 50% statistic? It sounds reasonable, but I am > curious where it came from. > > Robin > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale (AT) gmail (DOT) com <vibekevale% 40gmail.com> > > @gro ups.com <% 40. com> > Thursday, June 25, 2009 10:17:58 AM > Re: Re: Earthlings movie > > Heather, > > There was a day I was in the grocery store not that long ago when a mother > looked into my car and said to her child, " Wow, look at how healthy her > cart > is compared to ours, I wish we could eat like that. " I felt proud of my > cart overflowing with fruits and vegetables and soy milk. It made me > remember a time myself about three years ago when I thought the same thing > about other people's carts. I remember thinking I should not be buying all > this junk for my kids. I have never had the typical grocery cart - chips, > pop, cookies, snack bars, fruit rollups etc... My kids have never eaten > that > stuff. Occasionally sure, but not at every shopping trip. Actually, one > day I was in the grocery store and the people in front me had over $100 > worth of product in their cart but no food. It was all cases of pop, junk > food, packaged food and meats. No fruits, no vegetables, no quality > grains. I was astonished and saddened at the way these people were feeding > their kids. No wonder 50% of American children are overfed, overweight and > under nourished. I could go on and on forever, but you're right, leading by > example may be a passive approach, but it's still effective. > > Vibeke > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Heather Hossfeld <hlh4850 (AT) gmail (DOT) com> > wrote: > > > > > > > Same here. I think there's a middle ground between showing these images > to > > your child, and pretending it doesn't happen and teaching them all that > " Oh > > here's Farmer Joe giving Betsy her morning milking with a loving pat " > crap. > > I can't handle looking at those images, they sear into my brain and my > > haunt > > me. But I am fully aware that they're there and I know that I am living > in > > a > > way that as much as possible, I am not contributing to that. I take every > > opportunity to tell my children about it, and when they see the > advertising > > or the sweet little books about life on a farm, or the animals in books > who > > love to live in the zoo, we discuss it and I tell them what it's really > > like. But I will not show them the graphic images. My kids get upset over > > very minor conflict in story books so I can only imagine how they'd > react. > > But, for other people I'm sure their children are very different from > them > > and if it works for you, great. > > The other thing is, as a vegan, one of my goals is to make my life look > > very > > appealing to others -- I want people to look at our family and go Wow, > > they're all healthy, smart kids, slim, enjoying life, and doesn't their > > food > > taste yummy! And I want it to look pretty easy. Because I find that sort > of > > approach gets people asking questions, and trying to reduce their own > meat > > intake -- I think most of the people who get to know us end up > drastically > > reducing their meat consumption, and a number have become completely > > vegetarian. That's the beginning of awareness. Once they get there > they're > > more willing to learn more about all the other reasons for becoming > > vegetarian, and progress further-- and they start telling other people. > My > > experience has been that if I approach it by telling people all the nasty > > reasons they shouldn't eat meat (take your pick -- animals, environment, > > health, etc...), they just retreat and put up a wall -- then I get > labeled > > as that freaky vegetarian ;-). I think there are different types of > > activism > > and this passive kind can be very effective. > > > > I'm sure for a lot of people it's the videos and graphic footage that > does > > it for them -- in fact it was for me, the first time I saw factory farm > > footage, at age 16, was the last day I ate meat. But the average person I > > know is simply not willing to expose themselves to that and would just be > > angry at me for trying to show them, which doesn't help. I'm sure we all > > live in different types of communities and are surrounded by different > > attitudes, values and experiences. We don't have to agree on one way to > do > > it, we're all working for the same thing from different directions. > > > > Heather > > > > 2009/6/25 jenni claire garverick <jennigarverick@ <jennigarv erick% > 40> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Well-reasoned, Vibeke. I feel the same. I totally believe in telling > kids > > > the truth (and showing them, even), but the operative term being 'age > > > appropriate' . I don't to the belief that just because > > something's > > > 'real' means that kids should be exposed to it- I would hope that we're > > all > > > sheltering our small children from images of sex, among other things, > > that > > > are considered 'real'. I don't feel that my children need to see some > of > > > things I've read about here ( I didn't even want to READ about them- > and > > > started deleting the posts related to this thread at one point- and not > > > because I don't know that they're happening, but because I find them so > > > sickening and don't want to fixate on them as I'm prone to do). > > > j. > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > > Vibeke Vale <vibekevale@ gmail. com <vibekevale% 40gmail.com> > <vibekevale% > > 40gmail.com> > > > > @gro ups.com <% 40. > com><% > > 40. com> > > > > > Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:26:23 PM > > > Re: Re: Earthlings movie > > > > > > > > > This conversation has strayed from the original poster's point that > > > Earthlings is a movie that is both deeply moving and difficult to > watch. > > I > > > have seen things that I wish I could un-see; images of such cruelty > > burned > > > into my mind. I do not want my young children to be scarred the way I > > feel > > > I have been scarred viewing animals being skinned alive or a cow > > butchered > > > while still conscious and looking around or seeing calves ripped from > > their > > > mothers only hours old and put into pens to be starved for veal. I can > > tell > > > them that this happens and they can see it when they get older. My 8 > year > > > old son can handle more mature matter than my 13 year old son can, I > know > > > that if I let them watch Earthlings it would scar them and as a loving > > > parent I certainly don't want that. HOWEVER, I agree that it's > important > > > that they truly know what is happening in factory farming both for fur > > and > > > for meat and I will answer every question as it comes and provide > visuals > > > only when necessary. > > > > > > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar > > > <jb@jacquelinebodna r .com>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Lorraine, > > > > > > > > I didn't appreciate your response as well... Your response was also a > > > > bit caustic, as you implied that I am doing long term damage to my > kids > > > > by teaching them about the atrocities of the meat industry. You even > > > > went so far as to throw out your professional credentials to try to > > lend > > > > weight to that fact. > > > > > > > > I make the comparison to omnivore parents because they also want to > > > > shield their children from the meat industry realities. If you ever > > even > > > > bring it up they say " I don't want to know. " After taking my niece to > > > > see the movie Babe many years ago she asked me what hamburger was. I > > > > told her it was cows. Her mother had a fit and explained to her that > it > > > > is special cows. Not real ones like she sees on the side of the road. > > > > She shielded he from the harshness of the industry and your remarks > > made > > > > me think of how I've come across many of them doing that. > > > > > > > > It was seeing true images as a child that made me compassionate > toward > > > > animals today. Maybe shielding your child from them will work. And > that > > > > is great if it does. But for me, seeing it worked, and that's the > route > > > > I'm going to take with my kids. We each make our own decisions in > life > > > > and I don't believe that I'm causing long term harm by showing them > the > > > > images. Violent images as you put it. Yes, meat is violent. Very > > > > violent. And I want them to be completely aware of that. > > > > > > > > Anyway, I'm done... I feel like I've been typing a book this week on > > > > here! My apologies if anyone is offended. It is never my intent to > > > > offend. You all can carry on with this without me. I'm just repeating > > > > myself too much. :-) > > > > > > > > Best, > > > > Jacqueline > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Regards, > > > > > > Vibeke > > > > > > " The most important thing to remember about food labels is that you > > should > > > avoid foods that have labels. " > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 25, 2009 Report Share Posted June 25, 2009 Heather wrote: <<The other thing is, as a vegan, one of my goals is to make my life look very appealing to others -- I want people to look at our family and go Wow, they're all healthy, smart kids, slim, enjoying life, and doesn't their food taste yummy! And I want it to look pretty easy. Because I find that sort of approach gets people asking questions, and trying to reduce their own meat intake -- I think most of the people who get to know us end up drastically reducing their meat consumption, and a number have become completely vegetarian. That's the beginning of awareness. Once they get there they're more willing to learn more about all the other reasons for becoming vegetarian, and progress further-- and they start telling other people. My experience has been that if I approach it by telling people all the nasty reasons they shouldn't eat meat (take your pick -- animals, environment, health, etc...), they just retreat and put up a wall -- then I get labeled as that freaky vegetarian ;-). I think there are different types of activism and this passive kind can be very effective.>> Nicely put, Heather. Unfortunately, society at large assumes that the more militant forms of activism represent all of us, and so most people have their defenses up as soon as they hear the word " vegetarian " or " vegan. " Gently showing by example doesn't grab people's attention when they're already primed for a fight. I know it has made my family's life much harder. Liz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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