Re:Vegan Child Tired of Being Different

June 8, 2009

I would add, that with children it is more helpful to stress the empathy

towards animals rather then health issues. Kids think they will be

healthy and live forever, regardless of what they do. But they are all

naturally empathetic towards the plight of animals and their babies. Even

though as adults we came to this lifestyle as a health/diet angle, we've

" sold " it to our kids first as a caring for animals and the earth

standpoint. We've added the health aspect as they have gotten older. With

four boys ages 14, 11, 8 and 5 we haven't had any WANT meat yet.

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June 8, 2009

This is one of the reasons I love this group. It is so interesting to be

able to share all this with other parents and see what they are doing,

what they are thinking, how they handle issues, what they teach their

kids, etc.

As for us... October will be 14 years that I've been an ethical

vegetarian. My husband joined me in vegetarianism about 3 months later.

My daughter is almost five and my son will be three this month.

We've always taught them it's an ethical issue (and for us that's what

it is), that it's not right to abuse/harm/kill/eat animals. That's the

only stance we've ever taken on it.

I believe that people can be healthy and still eat meat, after all I

have an 81 year old grandfather who has eaten meat his whole life and

getting around fine still. I know about all the health research, but I

still think people could eat it in moderation and be healthy (same with

any other occassional unhealthy foods). So I agree with what Bonnie

said, I think selling the " health " aspect to the kids would be a hard

sell. My kids know cookies are not healthy, I tell hem that, but it

doesn't stop them from wanting them from time to time. However they,

especially my daughter, are very in-tuned to the empathy reasons for not

eathing meat. They " get it " more and more all the time. But I am always

re-inforcing it. We talk about it all the time. I read books to them

about animals, talk about vegetarianism, I've taken them to a sanctuary

to see/touch/feed the animals, etc.

Anyway, I think going with the empathy side will always be far more

effective in getting kids to stay the course with vegetarianism. Kids

know that they eat other unhealhty things here and there and they are

still okay, so if you were pushing meat as unhealthy they would see it

the same way, I believe.

Jacqueline

June 10, 2009

That may be true (similarly, my kids have an 80 year old grandfather who has

smoked cigarettes all of his adult life and is getting around fine), but

wouldn't the kids benefit from understanding the increased risk?

I think it's important to separate the idea of eating something unhealthy

occasionally and making it the primary source of calories in your diet. It's

one thing to eat a candy mint after dinner, and something entirely different to

eat an animal-based dinner.

Sure some people who eat a primarily animal-based diet will live long lives,

perhaps even without significant debilitation. But the probability of living

long, healthy lives is significantly higher for those on plant-based diets. The

more plant-based, the healthier.

It would seem easy enough (sad to say) for most of us to point to an aunt,

uncle, grandparent, etc. who has suffered from heart disease, stroke, cancer,

diabetes, etc. and explain that they could have greatly reduced the likelihood

of those things happening by eating a well planned vegan diet.

Maybe children would understand an analogy with crossing the street. You can

close your eyes and walk across, or you can look both ways before crossing.

What do smart kids do?

- Alan

, " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote:

> ... I believe that people can be healthy and still eat meat, after all I have

an 81 year old grandfather who has eaten meat his whole life and getting around

fine still. ...

June 11, 2009

Alan writes:

" That may be true (similarly, my kids have an 80 year old grandfather

who has smoked cigarettes all of his adult life and is getting around

fine), but wouldn't the kids benefit from understanding the increased

risk? "

For me, not really. I didn't become a vegetarian for health reasons or

because I didn't like the taste of meat. I always have been and always

will be a vegetarian for moral reasons. I'm completely an ethical

vegetarian. Those who tout or follow vegetarianism for health reasons

could be swayed to eat meat. Those who follow it for moral reasons

can't. If next week new research came out that shows that eating meat is

absolutely the healthiest thing out there, will you then teach your kids

that?

What about seafood? The health benefits of it are touted weekly in the

news. Do you tell them that?

Reading/hearing about the benefits of eating salmon won't persuade me to

eat it. Nor do I tell my kids about the benefits of eating salmon. There

is no compromising when it is an ethical issue. When it comes to health

benefits there are, and the research on what is healthy and not change

frequently. So while they may learn about cholesterol later, I don't

care to make the health aspects or lack thereof regarding eating animals

an issue with my kids (like I originally said, I think you can eat meat

in moderation and still live a long and healthy life). For me, it's all

about morals, values, live and let live, respecting other earthlings,

etc.

Jacqueline

June 13, 2009

Well I guess there's " long and healthy " and then there is " longer and

healthier " . :-)

I like the idea of kids being well informed about the health benefits of their

plant-based diet. Imagine how uniformed kids might react to misleading health

claims about fish or other animal-based products. Might the kids question

whether their parents care more about harming animals than about harming them?

The good news is that compassion vs health is a false choice.

One of the great joys about a plant-based diet is that we can do so much good

from this single choice. Truly, I can think of no other action that helps

animals, helps our health, helps world hunger, and helps the environment in

numerous ways. It's stunning! I would suggest that acknowledging (even

celebrating) the many positive effects of our actions only strengthens our kids'

convictions.

Being informed on all the angles can also be helpful for them when dealing with

friends and relatives who eat animal-based products, or exploit animals in some

other way. It's a way to find common ground. One perspective may resonate more

than others with particular inividuals, and that is only natural given each

person's unique experiences, background, etc.

For example, there are a lot of people these days who are " going green " or

trying to improve their health. These folks are natural allies for animal

advocates to engage. Afterall, it won't matter to the animals " why " a person is

not harming them.

- Alan

, " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote:

>

> Alan writes:

> " That may be true (similarly, my kids have an 80 year old grandfather

> who has smoked cigarettes all of his adult life and is getting around

> fine), but wouldn't the kids benefit from understanding the increased

> risk? "

>

> For me, not really. I didn't become a vegetarian for health reasons or

> because I didn't like the taste of meat. I always have been and always

> will be a vegetarian for moral reasons. I'm completely an ethical

> vegetarian. Those who tout or follow vegetarianism for health reasons

> could be swayed to eat meat. Those who follow it for moral reasons

> can't. If next week new research came out that shows that eating meat is

> absolutely the healthiest thing out there, will you then teach your kids

> that?

>

> What about seafood? The health benefits of it are touted weekly in the

> news. Do you tell them that?

>

> Reading/hearing about the benefits of eating salmon won't persuade me to

> eat it. Nor do I tell my kids about the benefits of eating salmon. There

> is no compromising when it is an ethical issue. When it comes to health

> benefits there are, and the research on what is healthy and not change

> frequently. So while they may learn about cholesterol later, I don't

> care to make the health aspects or lack thereof regarding eating animals

> an issue with my kids (like I originally said, I think you can eat meat

> in moderation and still live a long and healthy life). For me, it's all

> about morals, values, live and let live, respecting other earthlings,

> etc.

>

> Jacqueline

>

June 14, 2009

Alan writes: " One of the great joys about a plant-based diet is that we

can do so much good from this single choice. "

As an adult I would agree with that. But it's not what I want to teach

my 3 and 5 year old kids. Next week meat could be considered the

healthiest food on the planet. Researchers could find new ways to grow

it so that it doesn't do environmental damage. They will sit in a

classroom at some point and have a teacher and textbook explain to them

how healthy and necessary meat is for the body. And it only helps world

hunger if the food not used to feed the livestock is given to those

starving, which isn't the case at this point. And world hunger could at

some time come to an end. But the factors surrounding ethical

vegetarianism will not ever change. It will not suddenly be okay to take

another animal's life. The variables will not change as far as I can

foresee.

As they age they will certainly be told of the other perceived benefits

of vegetarianism. But what I wish to instill in them the most is ethical

vegetarianism and compassion toward animals. That is what I want to

stick with them. As far as I'm concerned the other " benefits " are just

ancillary. For me, and what I hope to be for my kids if all goes well,

is that compassion is the most logical choice when it comes to

vegetarianism. To me, there is no stronger argument against consuming

animals.

We talk about healthy food versus unhealthy food choices. But meat is

never a part of that equation. We don't discuss that aspect, because as

I said before, I think someone who eats meat once in a while could be

very healthy and live a very long life. It's eating it three times a day

that is doing harm to people's health. Eating a piece of meat once a

week or month is not going to compromise one's health. But it will

compromise any ethical beliefs about eating animals. My kids would see

through the health aspect as they see very old people in the family

munching down on a burger and then getting around just fine.

I think my bottom line here is that yes, there are many reasons one can

go vegetarian. However, I believe that unless it is for ethical reasons

then it would be easy to go back to eating animals, even if only on

occassion. So being an ethical vegetarian, I will continue to take that

the approach with raising my kids and hope that it resonates so that

they never want to take the life of another animal. Along the way they

are also learning about healthy eating, as well as the environment (we

are a very green family and I also run a Roots & Shoots group with

them), but where animals are concerned it is all about compassion. Right

down to the spiders that we catch in the house and place outdoors.

Jacqueline

June 15, 2009

Compassion is a very compelling motivation for many people, including kids, to

not harm animals. Of course, if ethics is going to be the only significant

basis for how we treat animals, we had better make sure our rationale is morally

coherent, and applied consistently in our lives.

You mention below (and previously) about how ethics prohibits taking an animal's

life. I would agree, although Singer, et. al., point out that the act of taking

an animal's life is perhaps the weakest of the ethical arguments because of

technological possibilities (theoretical at least) of accomplishing this

instantaneously and painlessly.

At least as strong, and perhaps much more strong, are the ethical arguments

concerning the harm and deprivation of interests farm animals experience

continuously while they are alive, typically beginning at birth. For example,

the life of commercial egg laying hens is one of constant suffering. A similar

existence is true of commercial dairy cows and their male offspring, aka veal.

And so on for other farm animals.

So, to be coherent, the moral imperative of which you speak is against harming

animals, not just killing them, right? And being ethically consistent requires

that we strive to cause neither their harm nor their killing, right?

That ought to be pretty clear to the kids. And with all the time we save not

answering their questions about whether it's ethically better to eat cheese vs

beef, eggs vs chicken, etc., maybe we'll have time to talk a bit about their

health, world hunger, and the environment, too!

- Alan

, " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote:

>

> ... the factors surrounding ethical vegetarianism will not ever change. It

will not suddenly be okay to take another animal's life. The variables will not

change as far as I can foresee.

June 15, 2009

Personally, I believe in arming kids with as many prongs of what is a

multi-pronged argument/choice as possible. As such, I talk to my kids on a

regular basis about ALL the various reasons we're vegetarians, and I don't

particularly care which one 'sticks' with them. I'm not sure I'd agree that

ethical vegetarians are the only ones who cannot be swayed to eat meat- my

reasons for being a vegetarian have shifted on a fairly regular basis over the

past 21+ years (and let me tell you, I have run the gamut! I think it's just

part of the maturation process- different things have been important to me at

different times in my life), and I have never been tempted to eat meat. Like

many of you, I'm sure, the very thought, smell, everything about it really makes

me ill. That is one of the beauties of the issue and being able to explain it to

people with a variety of perspectives- you can tailor your argument/defense,

whatever the situation requires to the specific

situation and who is trying to talk you into eating meat, or trying to tell you

why eating meat is okay.

j.

________________________________

Alan <soy_decaf_latte

Friday, June 12, 2009 11:04:03 PM