Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Hi, I am curious how other parents feel when you go to a restaurant with relatives and you and your kids order vegetarian and the relatives order non vegetarian. I have had this happen often with family and friends. I don't say anything and neither do my two sons ages 9 and 12. Internally though we find it rude to see someone we know and love to be devouring someone we didn't know but also loved. Thanks, Teresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 My son sometimes comments on what our relatives eat (usually it's an " ew gross " comment from him). He knows not everyone eats the same way - and we try to not engage them on it. they're usually just happy that there's places we can all go to eat. Of course here, we try to pick the restaurant, and there's a few places we can go (that they will agree on) that are are vegetarian/vegan or are mostly vegetarian with little for them to chose from, so it's kind of the reverse of what we usually have to pick from when they chose places. It's nice turning the tables once in a while. I think you just have to kind of let it go externally. We try to just focus on being with family/friends rather than focusing on what is on their plates. But maybe that's just me. I feel like our relationship with the in-laws is strained enough as it is just from their own weird prioritization of other events/people/etc that take precedence over seeing us/the first grandchild - which I've never understood... We're just happy to be able to see them on occasion that we focus on that part rather than the other stuff. (our being vegan is not an issue with them, they just have other people and events/etc that are more important than family. Well, more impt. than my husband or the first/only grandson...but that's a whole other rant!) Good luck. I feel it's tricky water to tread if you try to focus on the plate. I think I've heard of others who will sit at a different table so they don't have to look at what the others are consuming. Sharing a meal (being together) is what I'd think is important at that time, especially if you don't see those folks all the time. Otherwise, if it's regular, maybe take them somewhere where they have less option (or cook for them!). Don't think I'm much help. I'm not very confrontational, and I'm not so great for advocacy as I figure if they're not complaining about what I'm eating (or not) then I don't either (which is usually the case. I bring it up when health matters come up here and there, but I can't ever tell if they're just humoring me or taking it to heart. Heh). HTH Missie On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Teresa Aldrich <taldrich wrote: > > > Hi, > I am curious how other parents feel when you go to a restaurant > with relatives and you and your kids order vegetarian and the > relatives order non vegetarian. I have had this happen often with > family and friends. I don't say anything and neither do my two sons > ages 9 and 12. Internally though we find it rude to see someone we > know and love to be devouring someone we didn't know but also loved. > Thanks, > Teresa > > -- ~~~~~(m-.-)m http://mszzzi.zoomshare.com http://www.flickr.com/photos/mszzzi/ http://twitter.com/mszzzi http://www.derbylite.org www.VeganOutreach.org Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Teresa, I don't say anything either and I wouldn't think of them as rude either. After all, I was not vegan (or even vegetarian) for most of my life. I came to it on my own, so I don't think I am worthy of judging other people's choices in this area. The best thing you can do is to let them see you eating vegetarian and they will likely ask questions and that will give you the opportunity to discuss your choices with them in a non-confrontational way. They may even see the dish you ordered and say " Ooh, that looks better than my dish " . That has actually happened to me many times and I love it! Maybe you can invite them out once in a while to a " vegetarian night out " where everyone orders vegetarian just for the heck of it! Sue Teresa Aldrich Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:16 PM Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives Hi, I am curious how other parents feel when you go to a restaurant with relatives and you and your kids order vegetarian and the relatives order non vegetarian. I have had this happen often with family and friends. I don't say anything and neither do my two sons ages 9 and 12. Internally though we find it rude to see someone we know and love to be devouring someone we didn't know but also loved. Thanks, Teresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Teresa, I'm right there with you! We go through the same thing. It is very uncomfortable. My mom and step-dad will not order animals in front of the kids, so they always order vegetarian when with us. They are down to only eating meat once or twice a week now as well and have dropped loads of weight since doing that. They starting making a transition to vegetarianism when my daughter asked grandma point blank " grandma, do you eat animals? " and my mom was embarrassed to tell her that she did. Anyway, everyone else orders animals at the table. Because of this, we don't dine out with them very often. When we do, I try to ignore it, but there are some dishes that I absolutely cannot take being around (such ribs, lobster, a full fish on a plate, etc.). They know better than to order those things when with me. I would suggest either limiting how often you dine out with people who order meat, or suggest vegetarian restaurants to go to. Even at a vegetarian restaurant there should be some dishes that meat eaters would enjoy. My daughter gave her great grandmother a very hard time about eating ham one day when we all met for breakfast. Kayla was all over her asking her why she was eating a pig and that it's not nice to pigs, etc. I told Kayla that she can't badger her like that, even though she is right. My grandma (her great-grandma) was a really good sport about it all. She actually agreed with my Kayla, saying that she shouldn't be eating it and it's just out of habit. Anyway, it's limited now on how often we eat out with omnivores, because it is so uncomfortable. And another issue - I will not pick up the tab when people order animals. For years I did. If we were taking people out and they ordered animals we would still pay. I now refuse to. Because it would mean my money is going to an industry that I despise. I am really curious to see how others handle this... great question, Teresa! Jacqueline www.vegblogger.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2009 Report Share Posted December 30, 2009 Yeah I agree, you can't be judging people too much, it just turns them off! I've had that happen too - especially on airplanes (remember when they used to feed you on an airplane? :-) when my dish was so much better than the meat-eaters were getting. Yes, it's wonderful to have empathy and compassion and yes it has been hard for me to look at what my relatives (who are Chinese and eat a variety of parts I didn't often see consumed before - but perhaps at least there's less going to waste - are eating. I try to focus on the family and be as positive as I can. They often say to me things like, " we really eat very little meat at home " or " this week we didn't eat meat at all! " like they want my approval, so I figure these small steps mean something. Focus on the health aspect seems to have the most impact, especially if they are the ones who brought up the health problem. :-) Dee On Dec 30, 2009, at 2:11 PM, Susan J. Civic wrote: > Teresa, > > I don't say anything either and I wouldn't think of them as rude > either. After all, I was not vegan (or even vegetarian) for most of > my life. I came to it on my own, so I don't think I am worthy of > judging other people's choices in this area. The best thing you can > do is to let them see you eating vegetarian and they will likely ask > questions and that will give you the opportunity to discuss your > choices with them in a non-confrontational way. They may even see > the dish you ordered and say " Ooh, that looks better than my dish " . > That has actually happened to me many times and I love it! Maybe you > can invite them out once in a while to a " vegetarian night out " > where everyone orders vegetarian just for the heck of it! > > Sue > > Teresa Aldrich > Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:16 PM > > Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives > > Hi, > I am curious how other parents feel when you go to a restaurant > with relatives and you and your kids order vegetarian and the > relatives order non vegetarian. I have had this happen often with > family and friends. I don't say anything and neither do my two sons > ages 9 and 12. Internally though we find it rude to see someone we > know and love to be devouring someone we didn't know but also loved. > Thanks, > Teresa > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Personally, I don't have a problem at all with other people eating meat around me. As long as they are respectful to me about my eating choices then I am respectful to theirs. I would not expect them to avoid eating meat around me just because I am veg. That would be like them expecting me to eat meat around them because they eat it... I don't think it's right but that's their prerogative! --- On Wed, 12/30/09, Teresa Aldrich <taldrich wrote: Teresa Aldrich <taldrich Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 4:16 PM  Hi, I am curious how other parents feel when you go to a restaurant with relatives and you and your kids order vegetarian and the relatives order non vegetarian. I have had this happen often with family and friends. I don't say anything and neither do my two sons ages 9 and 12. Internally though we find it rude to see someone we know and love to be devouring someone we didn't know but also loved. Thanks, Teresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hi Teresa, Hmmm, I guess it happens to us all the time as we live in a world where not everyone has made our same choices, and I'm okay with that. We can only affect our own change in our own lives, so I always hope that our non-veg friends respect our decisions and we respect their option to make different choices. (I'm not saying I respect their eating meat . just that I respect their own free will.) :-) I'd hate to not be able to eat with or visit any of our friends and family who don't eat the way we do . and I think they learn from us this way, too, inadvertently. We had a family member ask to taste soy milk on christmas . and saw other omnivore friends try tofurkey for the first time at a solstice party we went to. We don't push these things, they just exist in our meals and our home, so it happens that people learn about them. I really have a live and let live attitude about it all . we do what we can do, and can't make other people do anything differently than what they do. We do have a policy of no meat in our home, so you could make the same policy and just invite people to your place all the time. :-) And we do talk to our son about these issues if he notices . and we just always tell him that we all make our own decisions and we respect everyone's ability to make decisions right for them. We have a friend who always says, " we are vegans in a non-vegan world, and we respect everyone. " Very zen of her. :-) Oh, and as a devil's advocate stance (which I totally do not agree with, but for example's sake, and to show that everyone thinks their decision is right) - I have known farming families who feel that it is disrespectful to not eat animals that have already been slaughtered . I know, how about that for turning logic and all sense on it's head for one's own use? Oi. But just shows you that everyone makes their own decisions for their own reasons, and they likely think we're being rude (in their nonsensical way of thinking -- haha). :-) Best of luck with this . another way we get to feel grateful for our own decisions, huh? :-) Have a good day, Lorraine On Behalf Of Teresa Aldrich Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:16 PM Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives Hi, I am curious how other parents feel when you go to a restaurant with relatives and you and your kids order vegetarian and the relatives order non vegetarian. I have had this happen often with family and friends. I don't say anything and neither do my two sons ages 9 and 12. Internally though we find it rude to see someone we know and love to be devouring someone we didn't know but also loved. Thanks, Teresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Hi! For me personally, it does not normally bother me to sit next to someone eating meat at a restaurant or social gathering. I guess I figure life is too short, and my free time too precious, to spend it worrying on others about their food choices without permission. I would expect the same courtesy of them, and  it would, at the very least, be extremely rude. I suppose I'm lucky- often my friends ask me before ordering meat at a restaurant if it will bother me, and I think that's really nice and very considerate. But I don't expect it, and I would never dream of telling them 'yes', even if the person sitting next to me was ordering duck (^ & %$#$%!!), as was the case a month or two ago. A different perspective is that in my opinion, you enter some sort of loose social compact when you go out to eat with people. Try to steer clear of aggravating/touchy topics of conversation, make a minimal effort to make the meal pleasant for everyone. It is, afterall, how you get them to join you again <smile>. I expect people to NOT belabor certain points: that I lived with my husband before we were married, don't often attend church, think that not believing in evolution is just plain nuts, think marriage between gays is a great idea, drink alcohol, blah blah blah. These are all things about ME that others might find morally/ethically objectionable, and I don't want a lecture about them when I'm trying to have a pleasant meal out. So I extend the same courtesy to others. Needless to say, I'm always happy to get on the old soapbox if someone asks me to, or tell my husband he can 'eat seared flesh if he wants to', but in light social situations, not a chance. I LIKE being invited out to eat. Great question, I've enjoyed reading the answers! j.  ________________________________ Lorraine <ldemi Wed, December 30, 2009 7:00:27 PM RE: Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives  Hi Teresa, Hmmm, I guess it happens to us all the time as we live in a world where not everyone has made our same choices, and I'm okay with that. We can only affect our own change in our own lives, so I always hope that our non-veg friends respect our decisions and we respect their option to make different choices. (I'm not saying I respect their eating meat . just that I respect their own free will.) :-) I'd hate to not be able to eat with or visit any of our friends and family who don't eat the way we do . and I think they learn from us this way, too, inadvertently. We had a family member ask to taste soy milk on christmas . and saw other omnivore friends try tofurkey for the first time at a solstice party we went to. We don't push these things, they just exist in our meals and our home, so it happens that people learn about them. I really have a live and let live attitude about it all . we do what we can do, and can't make other people do anything differently than what they do. We do have a policy of no meat in our home, so you could make the same policy and just invite people to your place all the time. :-) And we do talk to our son about these issues if he notices . and we just always tell him that we all make our own decisions and we respect everyone's ability to make decisions right for them. We have a friend who always says, " we are vegans in a non-vegan world, and we respect everyone. " Very zen of her. :-) Oh, and as a devil's advocate stance (which I totally do not agree with, but for example's sake, and to show that everyone thinks their decision is right) - I have known farming families who feel that it is disrespectful to not eat animals that have already been slaughtered . I know, how about that for turning logic and all sense on it's head for one's own use? Oi. But just shows you that everyone makes their own decisions for their own reasons, and they likely think we're being rude (in their nonsensical way of thinking -- haha). :-) Best of luck with this . another way we get to feel grateful for our own decisions, huh? :-) Have a good day, Lorraine @gro ups.com [@gro ups.com] On Behalf Of Teresa Aldrich Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:16 PM @gro ups.com Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives Hi, I am curious how other parents feel when you go to a restaurant with relatives and you and your kids order vegetarian and the relatives order non vegetarian. I have had this happen often with family and friends. I don't say anything and neither do my two sons ages 9 and 12. Internally though we find it rude to see someone we know and love to be devouring someone we didn't know but also loved. Thanks, Teresa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 I just wanted to chime in for a moment to point something out. When it comes to this issue, opinions will greatly vary, especially when it comes to why people are vegetarian. For example, if you are a vegetarian for health reasons, you may not mind at all people eating meat around you. But if you are ethically opposed to meat (as I am), it may be a bit harder for you to take. I believe the reasons why you are vegetarian are going to play a big part in whether or not it bothers you if people eat meat around you. Jacqueline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 Eating with meat eaters is not a big problem, maybe because I grew up eating meat and am used to seeing it. My kids are not so much, but they don't say anything. I don't consider it rude of other people to eat meat in front of me. I don't think it is up to them to cater to us. I think it is polite for them not to bring meat to my house and to make sure there is something I can eat when I come to their house. Would I prefer them not to eat meat - of course - but I don't see how they are under any obligation to avoid it because we don't eat it. When we went away with friends this summer, they asked if there was any meat in particular that would be a problem for us to be around, and I thought that was nice of them. Also, what is considered rude is subjective. I know my mother considered it rude that she made sure I had something vegetarian at her house, but I did not make sure she had meat at my house. (She never got the principle v. preference thing). Karen - " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb Wednesday, December 30, 2009 6:19:52 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern RE: Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives Teresa, I'm right there with you! We go through the same thing. It is very uncomfortable. My mom and step-dad will not order animals in front of the kids, so they always order vegetarian when with us. They are down to only eating meat once or twice a week now as well and have dropped loads of weight since doing that. They starting making a transition to vegetarianism when my daughter asked grandma point blank " grandma, do you eat animals? " and my mom was embarrassed to tell her that she did. Anyway, everyone else orders animals at the table. Because of this, we don't dine out with them very often. When we do, I try to ignore it, but there are some dishes that I absolutely cannot take being around (such ribs, lobster, a full fish on a plate, etc.). They know better than to order those things when with me. I would suggest either limiting how often you dine out with people who order meat, or suggest vegetarian restaurants to go to. Even at a vegetarian restaurant there should be some dishes that meat eaters would enjoy. My daughter gave her great grandmother a very hard time about eating ham one day when we all met for breakfast. Kayla was all over her asking her why she was eating a pig and that it's not nice to pigs, etc. I told Kayla that she can't badger her like that, even though she is right. My grandma (her great-grandma) was a really good sport about it all. She actually agreed with my Kayla, saying that she shouldn't be eating it and it's just out of habit. Anyway, it's limited now on how often we eat out with omnivores, because it is so uncomfortable. And another issue - I will not pick up the tab when people order animals. For years I did. If we were taking people out and they ordered animals we would still pay. I now refuse to. Because it would mean my money is going to an industry that I despise. I am really curious to see how others handle this... great question, Teresa! Jacqueline www.vegblogger.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2009 Report Share Posted December 31, 2009 We have had this same conversation! I think it is especially important when it comes to the close family members that you see all of the time. How can I explain why grandma would do such a horrible thing? Well, we decided we can't so we are going to not have our daughters close family members eat meat in front of her. I am sure it will be a challange from time to time. She is only 13 mo now so we are just starting to deal with this. sucks! elisa , Teresa Aldrich <taldrich wrote: > > Hi, > I am curious how other parents feel when you go to a restaurant > with relatives and you and your kids order vegetarian and the > relatives order non vegetarian. I have had this happen often with > family and friends. I don't say anything and neither do my two sons > ages 9 and 12. Internally though we find it rude to see someone we > know and love to be devouring someone we didn't know but also loved. > Thanks, > Teresa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 I don't like dining with people who are eating animals. It's hard for me to keep my appetite when looking at a hunk of meat. I guess I've watched enough (or too much) of Meet Your Meat and other videos that I cannot overlook the suffering and pretend it's not there. It's there and I really feel like I'm disrespecting the animals who have been tortured to death by acting like I don't care. This is not to say that I never eat with people eating meat - I just avoid it when I can. And on the rare occasion that someone has asked me if I mind them eating meat in front of me, of course, I tell them that I do....and in a very soft-spoken way (not loud and berating) I tell them that if they had seen the images that I have that they might feel the same.    My kids go to public school and therefore are forced to sit with kids eating meat at lunch. However, they don't want to be around family when they're eating meat. So if we can show up after or before meals then we do.  There are several vegetarians on my side, so if we do eat together we can sort of segregate ourselves during the actual eating time.   I have to say that I was SO excited when my nephew wouldn't eat his Christmas turkey, but wanted the tofurkey instead this year because it was yummier. I do see how it is important that we not completely avoid these eating situations, but it is also important to me that the entire issue not be ignored and I am just forced to pretend I don't care....especially for my kids sake.  Jill                            --- On Thu, 12/31/09, ejsrejsr <elisaelisa wrote: ejsrejsr <elisaelisa Re: Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives Thursday, December 31, 2009, 8:13 PM  We have had this same conversation! I think it is especially important when it comes to the close family members that you see all of the time. How can I explain why grandma would do such a horrible thing? Well, we decided we can't so we are going to not have our daughters close family members eat meat in front of her. I am sure it will be a challange from time to time. She is only 13 mo now so we are just starting to deal with this. sucks! elisa @gro ups.com, Teresa Aldrich <taldrich@.. .> wrote: > > Hi, > I am curious how other parents feel when you go to a restaurant > with relatives and you and your kids order vegetarian and the > relatives order non vegetarian. I have had this happen often with > family and friends. I don't say anything and neither do my two sons > ages 9 and 12. Internally though we find it rude to see someone we > know and love to be devouring someone we didn't know but also loved. > Thanks, > Teresa > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Jill wrote: " I do see how it is important that we not completely avoid these eating situations, but it is also important to me that the entire issue not be ignored and I am just forced to pretend I don't care....especially for my kids sake. " I agree with all that you said. On another note...think of it this way....what if it were slavery (or some other injustice that we abhore). Would we eat at a slave owners home, having the slaves wait on the slave owner in our presence, and pretend that something we are ethically opposed to isn't taking place right there in front of us? If you are ethically opposed to the eating of animals it is a bit harder to ignore such an injustice happening at the same table you are dining at and being done by your friends and family. While I can handle it on a limited basis and try to avoid looking at their plate, as I mentioned before, there are some dishes that I would to excuse myself from the dinner party over (e.g., whole fish, lobster, a slab of ribs, veal, a whole pig roast, lamb chops, etc.). Many people keep mentioning about the issue going both ways. I don't see it like that... I'm ethically opposed to people eating animals. They are not ethically opposed to people plant based foods. Similarly, my younger sister's family is very religious. She is against dinking alcohol. Everyone knows this and because of it, they don't drink in front of her. They still like to drink, but they just don't do it in front of her becuase they know she is ethically opposed. My husband drinks beer, but out of respect for her, he never does so in front of her. Jacqueline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2010 Report Share Posted January 1, 2010 Hi, I really think it depends on how your family members and friends feel about your diet. I wouldnt eat out with a raving carnivor with my son because its not nice to have your ethics mocked and i find it particuarly hard to see people eating meat so disrespectfully. As my son is only 3 i get concerned that he is going to want to eat what nanny or poppy is eating or anyone else. He does know that we don't eat animals because they are our friends, and he has now interpreted that by telling people we dont eat them because they have eyes and noses and mouths! I had a moment a while ago where my son asked his nanna what she was eating and i had a moment of wondering what my mum would say to him, but she told him that it was lamb and he didnt eat it because it was against our religion, so i thought that was a nice way for her to verbalise her understanding of my ethics and reinterate it to my son. Anway again its all about who it is. I think if your child is going to have a tantrum about not being able to eat animal (and lets face it if kids see others eating it and they cant have it they will probably want it till they are old enough to understand more) than its good to know that the people around wont scowl or say 'oh just give him some, what will one bit hurt'. I worried about my grandparents saying that at christmas and getting mad at me for not letting my son have meat but my mum came prepared and he stuffed his face with felafels and didnt notice the big meat platters! I recently showed him a book that had a picture of where food comes from, including meat. He asked what the stake was and i showed him the cow it was linked to. He was a bit confused but said 'we dont eat that!' I do wonder if in a year or two he is going to start being a vocal vego and harrass people! I wouldn't mind at all but i think we would be ommitted from party invites! Anyway i thinnk you have to be comfortable. If your not comfortable with meat eaters at dinner than either say as much before the event or don't go. I get very upset when my best friend eats meat, but i think its more of a dissapointment and saddness that there are so few vegetarians and even less vegans in the world. I do have a friend that is an animal rights activist and has a meat eater boyfriend. I wonder how she does that sometimes, but as she says she made her choice and she cannot force it onto someone else. Good luck with it. Ange On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 10:59 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar <jbwrote: > > > > Jill wrote: " I do see how it is important that we not completely avoid > > these eating situations, but it is also important to me that the entire > issue not be ignored and I am just forced to pretend I don't > care....especially for my kids sake. " > > > > I agree with all that you said. > > On another note...think of it this way....what if it were slavery (or > some other injustice that we abhore). Would we eat at a slave owners > home, having the slaves wait on the slave owner in our presence, and > pretend that something we are ethically opposed to isn't taking place > right there in front of us? If you are ethically opposed to the eating > of animals it is a bit harder to ignore such an injustice happening at > the same table you are dining at and being done by your friends and > family. While I can handle it on a limited basis and try to avoid > looking at their plate, as I mentioned before, there are some dishes > that I would to excuse myself from the dinner party over (e.g., whole > fish, lobster, a slab of ribs, veal, a whole pig roast, lamb chops, > etc.). > > Many people keep mentioning about the issue going both ways. I don't see > it like that... I'm ethically opposed to people eating animals. They are > not ethically opposed to people plant based foods. > > Similarly, my younger sister's family is very religious. She is against > dinking alcohol. Everyone knows this and because of it, they don't drink > in front of her. They still like to drink, but they just don't do it in > front of her becuase they know she is ethically opposed. My husband > drinks beer, but out of respect for her, he never does so in front of > her. > > Jacqueline > > > -- " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, November 2001. * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2010 Report Share Posted January 2, 2010 Hi Ange, We used to wonder about all this, too - but our 5-year-old totally understands that we don't eat meat, that we don't believe in eating our friends, never asks for it, considers it disgusting, even walked through my sister's kitchen on Thanksgiving with his hand by the side of his face because, as he told them all: " I don't want to see a poor, dead turkey in a kitchen. " He understands our vegetarianism better than most adults . and will argue with adults if provoked on the topic (though we highly encourage him not to .). They think they're going to be funny and put a question in our kid's head, undermining our parenting and choices (oooh, funny joke), and instead they unleash the wrath of a 5-year-old animal lover who is convinced that we've made the right decisions in our lives. :-) (Really, we don't tell him to do this, and we really don't do this at all . we're really live and let live people . kids just get a vehemence for the topic sometimes.) I'd say just wait and see what happens with your son . you may have to worry about the friends and family and neighbors and total strangers more than you have to worry about him. :-) And yeah, we get invited to less things now . we don't get the invites to the steak and shark bbq's during boxing games anymore . that's a coup. :-) Thank you, my son! :-) Have a good day, Lorraine On Behalf Of Angela Nagle Friday, January 01, 2010 2:01 PM Re: Re: Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives Hi, I really think it depends on how your family members and friends feel about your diet. I wouldnt eat out with a raving carnivor with my son because its not nice to have your ethics mocked and i find it particuarly hard to see people eating meat so disrespectfully. As my son is only 3 i get concerned that he is going to want to eat what nanny or poppy is eating or anyone else. He does know that we don't eat animals because they are our friends, and he has now interpreted that by telling people we dont eat them because they have eyes and noses and mouths! I had a moment a while ago where my son asked his nanna what she was eating and i had a moment of wondering what my mum would say to him, but she told him that it was lamb and he didnt eat it because it was against our religion, so i thought that was a nice way for her to verbalise her understanding of my ethics and reinterate it to my son. Anway again its all about who it is. I think if your child is going to have a tantrum about not being able to eat animal (and lets face it if kids see others eating it and they cant have it they will probably want it till they are old enough to understand more) than its good to know that the people around wont scowl or say 'oh just give him some, what will one bit hurt'. I worried about my grandparents saying that at christmas and getting mad at me for not letting my son have meat but my mum came prepared and he stuffed his face with felafels and didnt notice the big meat platters! I recently showed him a book that had a picture of where food comes from, including meat. He asked what the stake was and i showed him the cow it was linked to. He was a bit confused but said 'we dont eat that!' I do wonder if in a year or two he is going to start being a vocal vego and harrass people! I wouldn't mind at all but i think we would be ommitted from party invites! Anyway i thinnk you have to be comfortable. If your not comfortable with meat eaters at dinner than either say as much before the event or don't go. I get very upset when my best friend eats meat, but i think its more of a dissapointment and saddness that there are so few vegetarians and even less vegans in the world. I do have a friend that is an animal rights activist and has a meat eater boyfriend. I wonder how she does that sometimes, but as she says she made her choice and she cannot force it onto someone else. Good luck with it. Ange On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 10:59 PM, Jacqueline Bodnar <jb@jacquelinebodnar <jb%40jacquelinebodnar.com> .com>wrote: > > > > Jill wrote: " I do see how it is important that we not completely avoid > > these eating situations, but it is also important to me that the entire > issue not be ignored and I am just forced to pretend I don't > care....especially for my kids sake. " > > > > I agree with all that you said. > > On another note...think of it this way....what if it were slavery (or > some other injustice that we abhore). Would we eat at a slave owners > home, having the slaves wait on the slave owner in our presence, and > pretend that something we are ethically opposed to isn't taking place > right there in front of us? If you are ethically opposed to the eating > of animals it is a bit harder to ignore such an injustice happening at > the same table you are dining at and being done by your friends and > family. While I can handle it on a limited basis and try to avoid > looking at their plate, as I mentioned before, there are some dishes > that I would to excuse myself from the dinner party over (e.g., whole > fish, lobster, a slab of ribs, veal, a whole pig roast, lamb chops, > etc.). > > Many people keep mentioning about the issue going both ways. I don't see > it like that... I'm ethically opposed to people eating animals. They are > not ethically opposed to people plant based foods. > > Similarly, my younger sister's family is very religious. She is against > dinking alcohol. Everyone knows this and because of it, they don't drink > in front of her. They still like to drink, but they just don't do it in > front of her becuase they know she is ethically opposed. My husband > drinks beer, but out of respect for her, he never does so in front of > her. > > Jacqueline > > > -- " One person flying in an airplane for one hour is responsible for the same greenhouse gas emissions as a typical Bangladeshi in a whole year. " - Beatrice Schell, European Federation for Transport and Environment, November 2001. * The global livestock industry is responsible for more greenhouse gas emissions than all the planes, trains and automobiles in the world combined Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 3, 2010 Report Share Posted January 3, 2010 Yes, this is exactly how I see it. I don't feel that I need to " respect " others food choices. The choice is not about food, it's about lives. And I take that very seriously. --- On Fri, 1/1/10, Jacqueline Bodnar <jb wrote: Jacqueline Bodnar <jb RE: Re: Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives Friday, January 1, 2010, 11:59 AM  Jill wrote: " I do see how it is important that we not completely avoid these eating situations, but it is also important to me that the entire issue not be ignored and I am just forced to pretend I don't care....especially for my kids sake. " I agree with all that you said. On another note...think of it this way....what if it were slavery (or some other injustice that we abhore). Would we eat at a slave owners home, having the slaves wait on the slave owner in our presence, and pretend that something we are ethically opposed to isn't taking place right there in front of us? If you are ethically opposed to the eating of animals it is a bit harder to ignore such an injustice happening at the same table you are dining at and being done by your friends and family. While I can handle it on a limited basis and try to avoid looking at their plate, as I mentioned before, there are some dishes that I would to excuse myself from the dinner party over (e.g., whole fish, lobster, a slab of ribs, veal, a whole pig roast, lamb chops, etc.). Many people keep mentioning about the issue going both ways. I don't see it like that... I'm ethically opposed to people eating animals. They are not ethically opposed to people plant based foods. Similarly, my younger sister's family is very religious. She is against dinking alcohol. Everyone knows this and because of it, they don't drink in front of her. They still like to drink, but they just don't do it in front of her becuase they know she is ethically opposed. My husband drinks beer, but out of respect for her, he never does so in front of her. Jacqueline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 >> I had a moment a while ago where my son asked his nanna what she was eating .... This is an aside, really, but when I get into one of those " what are you eating? " exchanges, I sometimes reply and then ask " who are you eating? " . Definitely makes them think! :-) - Alan , Angela Nagle <angel.nail wrote: > > Hi, > I really think it depends on how your family members and friends feel about > your diet. I wouldnt eat out with a raving carnivor with my son because its > not nice to have your ethics mocked and i find it particuarly hard to see > people eating meat so disrespectfully. As my son is only 3 i get concerned > that he is going to want to eat what nanny or poppy is eating or anyone > else. He does know that we don't eat animals because they are our friends, > and he has now interpreted that by telling people we dont eat them because > they have eyes and noses and mouths! I had a moment a while ago where my son > asked his nanna what she was eating and i had a moment of wondering what my > mum would say to him, but she told him that it was lamb and he didnt eat it > because it was against our religion, so i thought that was a nice way for > her to verbalise her understanding of my ethics and reinterate it to my son. > Anway again its all about who it is. I think if your child is going to have > a tantrum about not being able to eat animal (and lets face it if kids see > others eating it and they cant have it they will probably want it till they > are old enough to understand more) than its good to know that the people > around wont scowl or say 'oh just give him some, what will one bit hurt'. I > worried about my grandparents saying that at christmas and getting mad at me > for not letting my son have meat but my mum came prepared and he stuffed his > face with felafels and didnt notice the big meat platters! I recently showed > him a book that had a picture of where food comes from, including meat. He > asked what the stake was and i showed him the cow it was linked to. He was a > bit confused but said 'we dont eat that!' I do wonder if in a year or two he > is going to start being a vocal vego and harrass people! I wouldn't mind at > all but i think we would be ommitted from party invites! > Anyway i thinnk you have to be comfortable. If your not comfortable with > meat eaters at dinner than either say as much before the event or don't go. > I get very upset when my best friend eats meat, but i think its more of a > dissapointment and saddness that there are so few vegetarians and even less > vegans in the world. I do have a friend that is an animal rights activist > and has a meat eater boyfriend. I wonder how she does that sometimes, but as > she says she made her choice and she cannot force it onto someone else. > Good luck with it. > Ange > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2010 Report Share Posted January 5, 2010 Hi I am Vegetarian too. Sometime when I ask same questions, like " Who are you eating " , some people have answered me plants also have life, just because they cannot " Scream " does not mean that they do not feel it, we eat 1 cow or pig for 3-4 days entire family however, we (us) eat 1000's of seeds everyday. How do we take this answer ? Thanks Jay On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 10:31 AM, soy_decaf_latte <soy_decaf_lattewrote: > > > >> I had a moment a while ago where my son asked his nanna what she was > eating ... > > This is an aside, really, but when I get into one of those " what are you > eating? " exchanges, I sometimes reply and then ask " who are you eating? " . > Definitely makes them think! :-) > > - Alan > > > <%40>, Angela > Nagle <angel.nail wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I really think it depends on how your family members and friends feel > about > > your diet. I wouldnt eat out with a raving carnivor with my son because > its > > not nice to have your ethics mocked and i find it particuarly hard to see > > people eating meat so disrespectfully. As my son is only 3 i get > concerned > > that he is going to want to eat what nanny or poppy is eating or anyone > > else. He does know that we don't eat animals because they are our > friends, > > and he has now interpreted that by telling people we dont eat them > because > > they have eyes and noses and mouths! I had a moment a while ago where my > son > > asked his nanna what she was eating and i had a moment of wondering what > my > > mum would say to him, but she told him that it was lamb and he didnt eat > it > > because it was against our religion, so i thought that was a nice way for > > her to verbalise her understanding of my ethics and reinterate it to my > son. > > Anway again its all about who it is. I think if your child is going to > have > > a tantrum about not being able to eat animal (and lets face it if kids > see > > others eating it and they cant have it they will probably want it till > they > > are old enough to understand more) than its good to know that the people > > around wont scowl or say 'oh just give him some, what will one bit hurt'. > I > > worried about my grandparents saying that at christmas and getting mad at > me > > for not letting my son have meat but my mum came prepared and he stuffed > his > > face with felafels and didnt notice the big meat platters! I recently > showed > > him a book that had a picture of where food comes from, including meat. > He > > asked what the stake was and i showed him the cow it was linked to. He > was a > > bit confused but said 'we dont eat that!' I do wonder if in a year or two > he > > is going to start being a vocal vego and harrass people! I wouldn't mind > at > > all but i think we would be ommitted from party invites! > > Anyway i thinnk you have to be comfortable. If your not comfortable with > > meat eaters at dinner than either say as much before the event or don't > go. > > I get very upset when my best friend eats meat, but i think its more of a > > dissapointment and saddness that there are so few vegetarians and even > less > > vegans in the world. I do have a friend that is an animal rights activist > > and has a meat eater boyfriend. I wonder how she does that sometimes, but > as > > she says she made her choice and she cannot force it onto someone else. > > Good luck with it. > > Ange > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Jay I can tell you how I have answered that question for years, and people have brought it up to me.... I respond by saying " Are you serious, you can't tell the differences between plants and animals? " This usually makes them feel pretty ridiculous for asking such a question. But usually saying that reply gets them kind of laughing and it's the end of that. There are vast differences in plants/animals. Humans are animals, lest we forget. Jacquelin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Hi Jay - I find the whole idea of comparing plants to animals to be incredibly annoying - it's a just a way of deflecting, IMO. Personally, if it were me, I would remind them that plants don't have central nervous systems. Also, there is the fact that we don't need to eat animals to live, but we do need to eat plants to live. - Erikka On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Jatin Shah <jatin7 wrote: > > > Hi I am Vegetarian too. > Sometime when I ask same questions, like " Who are you eating " , some people > have answered me plants also have life, just because they cannot " Scream " > does not mean that they do not feel it, we eat 1 cow or pig for 3-4 days > entire family however, we (us) eat 1000's of seeds everyday. > > How do we take this answer ? > > Thanks > Jay > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 10:31 AM, soy_decaf_latte > <soy_decaf_latte <soy_decaf_latte%40>>wrote: > > > > > > > >> I had a moment a while ago where my son asked his nanna what she was > > eating ... > > > > This is an aside, really, but when I get into one of those " what are you > > eating? " exchanges, I sometimes reply and then ask " who are you eating? " . > > Definitely makes them think! :-) > > > > - Alan > > > > > > <%40><% > 40>, Angela > > Nagle <angel.nail wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I really think it depends on how your family members and friends feel > > about > > > your diet. I wouldnt eat out with a raving carnivor with my son because > > its > > > not nice to have your ethics mocked and i find it particuarly hard to > see > > > people eating meat so disrespectfully. As my son is only 3 i get > > concerned > > > that he is going to want to eat what nanny or poppy is eating or anyone > > > else. He does know that we don't eat animals because they are our > > friends, > > > and he has now interpreted that by telling people we dont eat them > > because > > > they have eyes and noses and mouths! I had a moment a while ago where > my > > son > > > asked his nanna what she was eating and i had a moment of wondering > what > > my > > > mum would say to him, but she told him that it was lamb and he didnt > eat > > it > > > because it was against our religion, so i thought that was a nice way > for > > > her to verbalise her understanding of my ethics and reinterate it to my > > son. > > > Anway again its all about who it is. I think if your child is going to > > have > > > a tantrum about not being able to eat animal (and lets face it if kids > > see > > > others eating it and they cant have it they will probably want it till > > they > > > are old enough to understand more) than its good to know that the > people > > > around wont scowl or say 'oh just give him some, what will one bit > hurt'. > > I > > > worried about my grandparents saying that at christmas and getting mad > at > > me > > > for not letting my son have meat but my mum came prepared and he > stuffed > > his > > > face with felafels and didnt notice the big meat platters! I recently > > showed > > > him a book that had a picture of where food comes from, including meat. > > He > > > asked what the stake was and i showed him the cow it was linked to. He > > was a > > > bit confused but said 'we dont eat that!' I do wonder if in a year or > two > > he > > > is going to start being a vocal vego and harrass people! I wouldn't > mind > > at > > > all but i think we would be ommitted from party invites! > > > Anyway i thinnk you have to be comfortable. If your not comfortable > with > > > meat eaters at dinner than either say as much before the event or don't > > go. > > > I get very upset when my best friend eats meat, but i think its more of > a > > > dissapointment and saddness that there are so few vegetarians and even > > less > > > vegans in the world. I do have a friend that is an animal rights > activist > > > and has a meat eater boyfriend. I wonder how she does that sometimes, > but > > as > > > she says she made her choice and she cannot force it onto someone else. > > > Good luck with it. > > > Ange > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Hi Jay, Well, your friends are just being defensive . and scientifically wrong. :-) Animals have a central nervous system that allows them to experience pain . plants do not. Plants do not scream because they do not experience pain. You could tell your friends how my son just learned this concept in preschool. :-) And about a family eating a cow for 3-4 days . my goodness! That is a very hungry or very large family. One cow is a lot of meat. And even if we eat 1000's of seeds in a day . imagine how many seeds that cow ate in each day, that could have fed 1000's of starving people and smaller, non-factory produced, supply-and-demanded animals. It seems your friends are trying to say you are being hypocritical in eating plants, when really they are realizing their own hypocrisy and blaming it on you. :-) I mean, I wouldn't say all that - I'd probably talk about the central nervous systems and how we all have to make our own choices, and thank them for respecting yours (hint, hint, really). :-) And sometimes there's no answer for silly responses like this . Have a great evening! Lorraine On Behalf Of Jatin Shah Tuesday, January 05, 2010 1:28 PM Re: Re: Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives Hi I am Vegetarian too. Sometime when I ask same questions, like " Who are you eating " , some people have answered me plants also have life, just because they cannot " Scream " does not mean that they do not feel it, we eat 1 cow or pig for 3-4 days entire family however, we (us) eat 1000's of seeds everyday. How do we take this answer ? Thanks Jay On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 10:31 AM, soy_decaf_latte <soy_decaf_latte@ <soy_decaf_latte%40> >wrote: > > > >> I had a moment a while ago where my son asked his nanna what she was > eating ... > > This is an aside, really, but when I get into one of those " what are you > eating? " exchanges, I sometimes reply and then ask " who are you eating? " . > Definitely makes them think! :-) > > - Alan > > > @gro <%40> ups.com <%40>, Angela > Nagle <angel.nail wrote: > > > > Hi, > > I really think it depends on how your family members and friends feel > about > > your diet. I wouldnt eat out with a raving carnivor with my son because > its > > not nice to have your ethics mocked and i find it particuarly hard to see > > people eating meat so disrespectfully. As my son is only 3 i get > concerned > > that he is going to want to eat what nanny or poppy is eating or anyone > > else. He does know that we don't eat animals because they are our > friends, > > and he has now interpreted that by telling people we dont eat them > because > > they have eyes and noses and mouths! I had a moment a while ago where my > son > > asked his nanna what she was eating and i had a moment of wondering what > my > > mum would say to him, but she told him that it was lamb and he didnt eat > it > > because it was against our religion, so i thought that was a nice way for > > her to verbalise her understanding of my ethics and reinterate it to my > son. > > Anway again its all about who it is. I think if your child is going to > have > > a tantrum about not being able to eat animal (and lets face it if kids > see > > others eating it and they cant have it they will probably want it till > they > > are old enough to understand more) than its good to know that the people > > around wont scowl or say 'oh just give him some, what will one bit hurt'. > I > > worried about my grandparents saying that at christmas and getting mad at > me > > for not letting my son have meat but my mum came prepared and he stuffed > his > > face with felafels and didnt notice the big meat platters! I recently > showed > > him a book that had a picture of where food comes from, including meat. > He > > asked what the stake was and i showed him the cow it was linked to. He > was a > > bit confused but said 'we dont eat that!' I do wonder if in a year or two > he > > is going to start being a vocal vego and harrass people! I wouldn't mind > at > > all but i think we would be ommitted from party invites! > > Anyway i thinnk you have to be comfortable. If your not comfortable with > > meat eaters at dinner than either say as much before the event or don't > go. > > I get very upset when my best friend eats meat, but i think its more of a > > dissapointment and saddness that there are so few vegetarians and even > less > > vegans in the world. I do have a friend that is an animal rights activist > > and has a meat eater boyfriend. I wonder how she does that sometimes, but > as > > she says she made her choice and she cannot force it onto someone else. > > Good luck with it. > > Ange > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Plants do not have nervous systems, so they can not feel pain. Animals develop a sense of fear and pain to avoid danger. There is no evolutionary advantage for plants to develop a nervous system (they can not avoid a dangerous situation so there is no advantage to them having this ability) so they do not feel pain. By nature, plants make thousands of seeds, because evolutionary advantages indicate that if they make thousands of seeds, some of those seeds will survive to propagate their species - because of ANIMALS (which includes humanoids, for hundreds of thousands of years) eating them as well as climate, soil conditions and so on. You are also not killing or otherwise harming a sentient being. That's how I would answer it, though I'd probably be off kilter from being asked so maybe not quite as eloquent as all of that if put on the spot (I don't do well with that kind of thing, so tend to avoid it). Missie On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Jatin Shah <jatin7 wrote: > > > Hi I am Vegetarian too. > Sometime when I ask same questions, like " Who are you eating " , some people > have answered me plants also have life, just because they cannot " Scream " > does not mean that they do not feel it, we eat 1 cow or pig for 3-4 days > entire family however, we (us) eat 1000's of seeds everyday. > > How do we take this answer ? > > Thanks > Jay > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 10:31 AM, soy_decaf_latte > <soy_decaf_latte <soy_decaf_latte%40>>wrote: > > > > > > > > >> I had a moment a while ago where my son asked his nanna what she was > > eating ... > > > > This is an aside, really, but when I get into one of those " what are you > > eating? " exchanges, I sometimes reply and then ask " who are you eating? " . > > Definitely makes them think! :-) > > > > - Alan > > > > > > <%40><% > 40>, Angela > > > Nagle <angel.nail wrote: > > > > > > Hi, > > > I really think it depends on how your family members and friends feel > > about > > > your diet. I wouldnt eat out with a raving carnivor with my son because > > its > > > not nice to have your ethics mocked and i find it particuarly hard to > see > > > people eating meat so disrespectfully. As my son is only 3 i get > > concerned > > > that he is going to want to eat what nanny or poppy is eating or anyone > > > else. He does know that we don't eat animals because they are our > > friends, > > > and he has now interpreted that by telling people we dont eat them > > because > > > they have eyes and noses and mouths! I had a moment a while ago where > my > > son > > > asked his nanna what she was eating and i had a moment of wondering > what > > my > > > mum would say to him, but she told him that it was lamb and he didnt > eat > > it > > > because it was against our religion, so i thought that was a nice way > for > > > her to verbalise her understanding of my ethics and reinterate it to my > > son. > > > Anway again its all about who it is. I think if your child is going to > > have > > > a tantrum about not being able to eat animal (and lets face it if kids > > see > > > others eating it and they cant have it they will probably want it till > > they > > > are old enough to understand more) than its good to know that the > people > > > around wont scowl or say 'oh just give him some, what will one bit > hurt'. > > I > > > worried about my grandparents saying that at christmas and getting mad > at > > me > > > for not letting my son have meat but my mum came prepared and he > stuffed > > his > > > face with felafels and didnt notice the big meat platters! I recently > > showed > > > him a book that had a picture of where food comes from, including meat. > > He > > > asked what the stake was and i showed him the cow it was linked to. He > > was a > > > bit confused but said 'we dont eat that!' I do wonder if in a year or > two > > he > > > is going to start being a vocal vego and harrass people! I wouldn't > mind > > at > > > all but i think we would be ommitted from party invites! > > > Anyway i thinnk you have to be comfortable. If your not comfortable > with > > > meat eaters at dinner than either say as much before the event or don't > > go. > > > I get very upset when my best friend eats meat, but i think its more of > a > > > dissapointment and saddness that there are so few vegetarians and even > > less > > > vegans in the world. I do have a friend that is an animal rights > activist > > > and has a meat eater boyfriend. I wonder how she does that sometimes, > but > > as > > > she says she made her choice and she cannot force it onto someone else. > > > Good luck with it. > > > Ange > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 One other thing about eating plants vs. eating animals. If people are worried about the feelings of plants they will help save more plants by being vegan. By eating meat they are eating tons more plants! The animals eat the plants, then the people at the animals. By eating plants directly you will be responsible for the destruction of far less of them. And after all, we have to eat something. Eating vegan causes the least harm. Jacqueline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 That's not very convincing answer, because next questions they ask is fairness : If you have 2 sons, 1 healthy, 1 sick or disable, do you treat them differently ? Usually, I answer like this : Animal eats plants, and we eat Animal, so it's more environmentally friendly & efficient, if we eat plants directly. But this is core questions, we need better answer for this one. On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Erikka Fogleman <edfoglemanwrote: > > > Hi Jay - I find the whole idea of comparing plants to animals to be > incredibly annoying - it's a just a way of deflecting, IMO. Personally, if > it were me, I would remind them that plants don't have central nervous > systems. Also, there is the fact that we don't need to eat animals to live, > but we do need to eat plants to live. > > - Erikka > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Jatin Shah <jatin7<jatin7%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi I am Vegetarian too. > > Sometime when I ask same questions, like " Who are you eating " , some > people > > have answered me plants also have life, just because they cannot " Scream " > > does not mean that they do not feel it, we eat 1 cow or pig for 3-4 days > > entire family however, we (us) eat 1000's of seeds everyday. > > > > How do we take this answer ? > > > > Thanks > > Jay > > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 10:31 AM, soy_decaf_latte > > <soy_decaf_latte <soy_decaf_latte%40><soy_decaf_latte% > 40>>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I had a moment a while ago where my son asked his nanna what she was > > > eating ... > > > > > > This is an aside, really, but when I get into one of those " what are > you > > > eating? " exchanges, I sometimes reply and then ask " who are you > eating? " . > > > Definitely makes them think! :-) > > > > > > - Alan > > > > > > > > > <%40><% > 40><% > > 40>, Angela > > > > Nagle <angel.nail wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I really think it depends on how your family members and friends feel > > > about > > > > your diet. I wouldnt eat out with a raving carnivor with my son > because > > > its > > > > not nice to have your ethics mocked and i find it particuarly hard to > > see > > > > people eating meat so disrespectfully. As my son is only 3 i get > > > concerned > > > > that he is going to want to eat what nanny or poppy is eating or > anyone > > > > else. He does know that we don't eat animals because they are our > > > friends, > > > > and he has now interpreted that by telling people we dont eat them > > > because > > > > they have eyes and noses and mouths! I had a moment a while ago where > > my > > > son > > > > asked his nanna what she was eating and i had a moment of wondering > > what > > > my > > > > mum would say to him, but she told him that it was lamb and he didnt > > eat > > > it > > > > because it was against our religion, so i thought that was a nice way > > for > > > > her to verbalise her understanding of my ethics and reinterate it to > my > > > son. > > > > Anway again its all about who it is. I think if your child is going > to > > > have > > > > a tantrum about not being able to eat animal (and lets face it if > kids > > > see > > > > others eating it and they cant have it they will probably want it > till > > > they > > > > are old enough to understand more) than its good to know that the > > people > > > > around wont scowl or say 'oh just give him some, what will one bit > > hurt'. > > > I > > > > worried about my grandparents saying that at christmas and getting > mad > > at > > > me > > > > for not letting my son have meat but my mum came prepared and he > > stuffed > > > his > > > > face with felafels and didnt notice the big meat platters! I recently > > > showed > > > > him a book that had a picture of where food comes from, including > meat. > > > He > > > > asked what the stake was and i showed him the cow it was linked to. > He > > > was a > > > > bit confused but said 'we dont eat that!' I do wonder if in a year or > > two > > > he > > > > is going to start being a vocal vego and harrass people! I wouldn't > > mind > > > at > > > > all but i think we would be ommitted from party invites! > > > > Anyway i thinnk you have to be comfortable. If your not comfortable > > with > > > > meat eaters at dinner than either say as much before the event or > don't > > > go. > > > > I get very upset when my best friend eats meat, but i think its more > of > > a > > > > dissapointment and saddness that there are so few vegetarians and > even > > > less > > > > vegans in the world. I do have a friend that is an animal rights > > activist > > > > and has a meat eater boyfriend. I wonder how she does that sometimes, > > but > > > as > > > > she says she made her choice and she cannot force it onto someone > else. > > > > Good luck with it. > > > > Ange > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2010 Report Share Posted January 6, 2010 Hi Jay, Wow, you are really getting questions I've just never even heard before - and I grew up in a farming family that slaughtered and smoked their own meat on the family property - I thought I'd heard all the crazy responses for meat eaters trying to justify their decisions even when they saw my good points. My response to this: " If you have 2 sons, 1 healthy, 1 sick or disable, do you treat them differently ? " might be something like " wow, it is interesting that you draw a parallel between vegetarianism/veganism being healthy and eating meat being sick or disabled somehow . " (that was not likely their point, but might make them pause for a minute . plus gives the embedded message that that is what you believe, in a light-hearted way.) One issue with this discussion for you might be based on this part of your answer: " Animal eats plants, and we eat Animal,. " Your response helps them assume that we eat meat, and if we choose not to, we don't eat meat. I might say something like some animals eat plants, some eat animals . people have choices. And you know, the most important thing to remember is that we do not have to have responses for these things - we do not have to justify our own decisions. We do not have to prove to anyone why we make our own compassionate decisions. I think if we leave this situation in the hands of each person - we all make our own decisions - then meat-eaters will be the ones feeling that they must justify their own decisions. Plus, we will never get through to some people on these issues . I feel we must just sometimes save our energy for people who want info and want to change and want to have respectful, intelligent, non-antagonistic conversations on how to change the world for animals, people and the environment. Just as meat-eaters won't change our minds to eat meat, we can't change the minds of some people who are just not going to budge at all on anything . and who would argue with you in such a disrespectful way. Good luck with all this! Lorraine On Behalf Of Jatin Shah Wednesday, January 06, 2010 10:05 AM Re: Re: Dining with non vegetarian/vegan relatives That's not very convincing answer, because next questions they ask is fairness : If you have 2 sons, 1 healthy, 1 sick or disable, do you treat them differently ? Usually, I answer like this : Animal eats plants, and we eat Animal, so it's more environmentally friendly & efficient, if we eat plants directly. But this is core questions, we need better answer for this one. On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 7:00 PM, Erikka Fogleman <edfogleman (AT) gmail (DOT) <edfogleman%40gmail.com> com>wrote: > > > Hi Jay - I find the whole idea of comparing plants to animals to be > incredibly annoying - it's a just a way of deflecting, IMO. Personally, if > it were me, I would remind them that plants don't have central nervous > systems. Also, there is the fact that we don't need to eat animals to live, > but we do need to eat plants to live. > > - Erikka > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 1:27 PM, Jatin Shah <jatin7 (AT) gmail (DOT) <jatin7%40gmail.com> com<jatin7%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > > > > > Hi I am Vegetarian too. > > Sometime when I ask same questions, like " Who are you eating " , some > people > > have answered me plants also have life, just because they cannot " Scream " > > does not mean that they do not feel it, we eat 1 cow or pig for 3-4 days > > entire family however, we (us) eat 1000's of seeds everyday. > > > > How do we take this answer ? > > > > Thanks > > Jay > > > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 10:31 AM, soy_decaf_latte > > <soy_decaf_latte@ <soy_decaf_latte%40> <soy_decaf_latte%40><soy_decaf_latte% > 40>>wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > >> I had a moment a while ago where my son asked his nanna what she was > > > eating ... > > > > > > This is an aside, really, but when I get into one of those " what are > you > > > eating? " exchanges, I sometimes reply and then ask " who are you > eating? " . > > > Definitely makes them think! :-) > > > > > > - Alan > > > > > > > > > @gro <%40> ups.com <%40><% > 40><% > > 40>, Angela > > > > Nagle <angel.nail wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > I really think it depends on how your family members and friends feel > > > about > > > > your diet. I wouldnt eat out with a raving carnivor with my son > because > > > its > > > > not nice to have your ethics mocked and i find it particuarly hard to > > see > > > > people eating meat so disrespectfully. As my son is only 3 i get > > > concerned > > > > that he is going to want to eat what nanny or poppy is eating or > anyone > > > > else. He does know that we don't eat animals because they are our > > > friends, > > > > and he has now interpreted that by telling people we dont eat them > > > because > > > > they have eyes and noses and mouths! I had a moment a while ago where > > my > > > son > > > > asked his nanna what she was eating and i had a moment of wondering > > what > > > my > > > > mum would say to him, but she told him that it was lamb and he didnt > > eat > > > it > > > > because it was against our religion, so i thought that was a nice way > > for > > > > her to verbalise her understanding of my ethics and reinterate it to > my > > > son. > > > > Anway again its all about who it is. I think if your child is going > to > > > have > > > > a tantrum about not being able to eat animal (and lets face it if > kids > > > see > > > > others eating it and they cant have it they will probably want it > till > > > they > > > > are old enough to understand more) than its good to know that the > > people > > > > around wont scowl or say 'oh just give him some, what will one bit > > hurt'. > > > I > > > > worried about my grandparents saying that at christmas and getting > mad > > at > > > me > > > > for not letting my son have meat but my mum came prepared and he > > stuffed > > > his > > > > face with felafels and didnt notice the big meat platters! I recently > > > showed > > > > him a book that had a picture of where food comes from, including > meat. > > > He > > > > asked what the stake was and i showed him the cow it was linked to. > He > > > was a > > > > bit confused but said 'we dont eat that!' I do wonder if in a year or > > two > > > he > > > > is going to start being a vocal vego and harrass people! I wouldn't > > mind > > > at > > > > all but i think we would be ommitted from party invites! > > > > Anyway i thinnk you have to be comfortable. If your not comfortable > > with > > > > meat eaters at dinner than either say as much before the event or > don't > > > go. > > > > I get very upset when my best friend eats meat, but i think its more > of > > a > > > > dissapointment and saddness that there are so few vegetarians and > even > > > less > > > > vegans in the world. I do have a friend that is an animal rights > > activist > > > > and has a meat eater boyfriend. I wonder how she does that sometimes, > > but > > > as > > > > she says she made her choice and she cannot force it onto someone > else. > > > > Good luck with it. > > > > Ange > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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