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We need to buy a new car, and the problem is that almost everything that we like

has leather seats or at least a leather wrapped steering wheel. I'm not talking

high-end luxury cars either. We are interested in hybrids, and my husband has

been doing the preliminary research. I'm not sure of all the alternatives - some

might be ok if you don't want to add anything, but my husband wants some of

those added things, like satellite radio. Any upgrade involves leather in some

way, and every dealer says there is no way to special order it without. We

walked away from the Toyota hybrid last night (Camry, Corrolla?) because the

dealer said they can only get the cars Toyota ships to the Atlantic region, and

they all have leather steering wheels. You can ask for something else, but in

his experience you won't get it. (The Prius would work, but I'm very short and

even with my seat up all the way I had trouble seeing over all the stuff on the

dash). Why this need to have leather in everything.

 

I guess what is really bothering me here is that once again I have to be the

person in the family who is no fun. I'm vegan, but the rest of the family is

vegetarian. Even when I was vegetarian, however, I would not have wanted leather

seats or steering wheel. My husband, however, does not care about that. His

vegetarianism begins and ends with food, so he has no problems with leather

shoes, belts, furniture, etc. He understands my position, but I know he finds it

irritating and says things like, " if it weren't for the leather, we'd have so

many more options. " Last night he asked whether I could overlook a leather

wrapped steering wheel and just make a big donation to an animal rights charity.

 

Karen

 

 

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Karen,

 

What a bummer! I hope you find something that suits you all soon.

 

Last year we bought a Ford Escape and it does not have leather on it (at

least that I'm aware of). But when it comes to veganism, it's about

making a vegan choice when you have an option. For me, I would certainly

not get leather seats, but if the only cars we liked had a leather

wrapped stearing wheel I would probably still get it (providing that I

couldn't find an alternative).

 

Cars are not vegan, even if they do not have leather. There is animal

fat used in the vulcanization process in creating the tires. At one time

they used animals to crash-test the vehicles. Animal products are used

in the glue that is holding many pieces of the interior together. The

cement roads have animal products in them and were laid by men wearing

leather boots and gloves. Cars kill animals on the roads every time we

drive (large ones we see and small insect ones we don't always see). The

exhaust from the car is damaging the planet, including other animals.

etc., etc.

 

I would still look around to see what you can find that has no leather.

But if the only one thing you have to compromise on is a stearing wheel

then you may have to do it, just because there are no other options. Or

you can look at different cars.

 

Here's an interesting article on this topic:

http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/mickeyz08262004/

 

Best of luck!

Jacqueline

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When you drive a new car off the lot, it immediately loses 15% (or so) of its

value. Buying a 2 year old car every three years can save you $150,000,

depending on the car; buying used is also more environmentally friendly.

 

 

 

________________________________

Karen Detling <kdetling

 

Tue, March 30, 2010 9:59:11 AM

Car frustration

 

 

We need to buy a new car, and the problem is that almost everything that we like

has leather seats or at least a leather wrapped steering wheel. I'm not talking

high-end luxury cars either. We are interested in hybrids, and my husband has

been doing the preliminary research. I'm not sure of all the alternatives - some

might be ok if you don't want to add anything, but my husband wants some of

those added things, like satellite radio. Any upgrade involves leather in some

way, and every dealer says there is no way to special order it without. We

walked away from the Toyota hybrid last night (Camry, Corrolla?) because the

dealer said they can only get the cars Toyota ships to the Atlantic region, and

they all have leather steering wheels. You can ask for something else, but in

his experience you won't get it. (The Prius would work, but I'm very short and

even with my seat up all the way I had trouble seeing over all the stuff on the

dash). Why this need to

have leather in everything.

 

I guess what is really bothering me here is that once again I have to be the

person in the family who is no fun. I'm vegan, but the rest of the family is

vegetarian. Even when I was vegetarian, however, I would not have wanted leather

seats or steering wheel. My husband, however, does not care about that. His

vegetarianism begins and ends with food, so he has no problems with leather

shoes, belts, furniture, etc. He understands my position, but I know he finds it

irritating and says things like, " if it weren't for the leather, we'd have so

many more options. " Last night he asked whether I could overlook a leather

wrapped steering wheel and just make a big donation to an animal rights charity.

 

Karen

 

 

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Hi Karen,

I bought a new car from Vauxhall a few years ago and came across the

same problem. The model that I wanted came with a leather steering wheel, even

without any upgrades. My conversation with the salesman went something like

this:

 

Me: Can I order this model without the leather steering wheel?

Salesman: No, they all come with it. Why don't you want leather?

Me: Because I don't want to stroke a dead cow every time I get in my car.

SM: Oh. (Silence while he tried to work out if I was serious)

Me: I'm only interested in this model, if I can't get a new one then do you have

a secondhand one with no leather?

SM: Is that the only thing that would stop you from buying a new one?

Me: Yes.

SM: Let me speak to my manager.....

 

He came back 5 minutes later to say that they would be happy to swap the

steering wheel with a non-leather one from a different model. I got the feeling

that he wasn't going to miss out on a £12,000 sale just because the customer was

a bit crazy :-)

 

Try as many dealers as you can, if you're spending a lot of money on a new car

you should be happy with it. I'm sure you can find someone who really wants to

make a sale and will do their best to find a suitable car for you. Good luck!

 

Helen.

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You may be right, but that is not what my husband wants to do. Plus, this

replaces the car we have been driving since 1992, so we certainly get our use

out of them.

 

 

 

He called a different Ford dealer and found one that says they can, in fact,

switch steering wheels. We'll see if that actually works out, and I have to

drive the car.

 

 

 

 

-

" robin koloms " <rkoloms

 

Tuesday, March 30, 2010 10:12:30 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Re: Car frustration

 

 

 

 

 

 

When you drive a new car off the lot, it immediately loses 15% (or so) of its

value. Buying a 2 year old car every three years can save you $150,000,

depending on the car; buying used is also more environmentally friendly.

 

________________________________

Karen Detling < kdetling >

 

Tue, March 30, 2010 9:59:11 AM

Car frustration

 

 

We need to buy a new car, and the problem is that almost everything that we like

has leather seats or at least a leather wrapped steering wheel. I'm not talking

high-end luxury cars either. We are interested in hybrids, and my husband has

been doing the preliminary research. I'm not sure of all the alternatives - some

might be ok if you don't want to add anything, but my husband wants some of

those added things, like satellite radio. Any upgrade involves leather in some

way, and every dealer says there is no way to special order it without. We

walked away from the Toyota hybrid last night (Camry, Corrolla?) because the

dealer said they can only get the cars Toyota ships to the Atlantic region, and

they all have leather steering wheels. You can ask for something else, but in

his experience you won't get it. (The Prius would work, but I'm very short and

even with my seat up all the way I had trouble seeing over all the stuff on the

dash). Why this need to

have leather in everything.

 

I guess what is really bothering me here is that once again I have to be the

person in the family who is no fun. I'm vegan, but the rest of the family is

vegetarian. Even when I was vegetarian, however, I would not have wanted leather

seats or steering wheel. My husband, however, does not care about that. His

vegetarianism begins and ends with food, so he has no problems with leather

shoes, belts, furniture, etc. He understands my position, but I know he finds it

irritating and says things like, " if it weren't for the leather, we'd have so

many more options. " Last night he asked whether I could overlook a leather

wrapped steering wheel and just make a big donation to an animal rights charity.

 

Karen

 

 

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I confronted the leather-wrapped steering issue in buying our Hybrid Mariner

last year. We wanted certain upgrades and the package included a leather-wrapped

steering wheel. Ford didn't make it practical to opt out of the leather part,

ande frankly I was a little concerned that if we did skip the leather it would

affect resale. I guess you have to pick your battles. I emailed a complaint to

the car company but went ahead and got the package with the leather steering

wheel.

 

I am having the same problem buying furniture that contains down and feathers.

There are some companies that allow you to special order without the animal

feathers, but it's a time-consuming process and you can't return the piece if

you don't like the results. I think it's a good idea to register your concerns

with the company involved. I would be interested if anyone has better ideas on

handling corporate inflexibility.

 

Mary Chris

 

, " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote:

>

>

> Karen,

>

> What a bummer! I hope you find something that suits you all soon.

>

> Last year we bought a Ford Escape and it does not have leather on it (at

> least that I'm aware of). But when it comes to veganism, it's about

> making a vegan choice when you have an option. For me, I would certainly

> not get leather seats, but if the only cars we liked had a leather

> wrapped stearing wheel I would probably still get it (providing that I

> couldn't find an alternative).

>

> Cars are not vegan, even if they do not have leather. There is animal

> fat used in the vulcanization process in creating the tires. At one time

> they used animals to crash-test the vehicles. Animal products are used

> in the glue that is holding many pieces of the interior together. The

> cement roads have animal products in them and were laid by men wearing

> leather boots and gloves. Cars kill animals on the roads every time we

> drive (large ones we see and small insect ones we don't always see). The

> exhaust from the car is damaging the planet, including other animals.

> etc., etc.

>

> I would still look around to see what you can find that has no leather.

> But if the only one thing you have to compromise on is a stearing wheel

> then you may have to do it, just because there are no other options. Or

> you can look at different cars.

>

> Here's an interesting article on this topic:

> http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/mickeyz08262004/

>

> Best of luck!

> Jacqueline

>

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I have the same issue with down in furniture. Although the ethics of it is a big

concern, I also have a huge bird phobia, and sitting on a cushion of feathers

just creeps me out. It's the first thing I check in a hotel - what's in the

pillows. A couple of years ago we ordered a sofa and loveseat from Arhaus and

stipulated no down. We got a confirmation about that. They arrived a couple of

months later and we were loving them. Then, I started to find feathers. I had to

take one of the slipcovers off to wash it, and there were more feathers. I

looked and could clearly see feathers between the cushion covers and the

cushions. I could not sit on that furniture, plus I was really angry that they

had not complied with our request. My husband called them and they replaced all

the cushions. He, however, prefers the down for comfort, so the loveseat has

down and the sofa does not so I have some place to sit. Same thing with some

other furniture we ordered several years ago. Two chairs and an ottoman. We

orderd them with no down, and what do I see recently sticking out of the

ottoman?? A feather! The chairs seem ok. That company is out of business, so we

have no recourse.

 

 

 

Karen

 

 

 

 

-

" Mary Chris " <mcjrunner

 

Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:05:29 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Re: Car frustration

 

 

 

 

 

 

I confronted the leather-wrapped steering issue in buying our Hybrid Mariner

last year. We wanted certain upgrades and the package included a leather-wrapped

steering wheel. Ford didn't make it practical to opt out of the leather part,

ande frankly I was a little concerned that if we did skip the leather it would

affect resale. I guess you have to pick your battles. I emailed a complaint to

the car company but went ahead and got the package with the leather steering

wheel.

 

I am having the same problem buying furniture that contains down and feathers.

There are some companies that allow you to special order without the animal

feathers, but it's a time-consuming process and you can't return the piece if

you don't like the results. I think it's a good idea to register your concerns

with the company involved. I would be interested if anyone has better ideas on

handling corporate inflexibility.

 

Mary Chris

 

, " Jacqueline Bodnar " <jb wrote:

>

>

> Karen,

>

> What a bummer! I hope you find something that suits you all soon.

>

> Last year we bought a Ford Escape and it does not have leather on it (at

> least that I'm aware of). But when it comes to veganism, it's about

> making a vegan choice when you have an option. For me, I would certainly

> not get leather seats, but if the only cars we liked had a leather

> wrapped stearing wheel I would probably still get it (providing that I

> couldn't find an alternative).

>

> Cars are not vegan, even if they do not have leather. There is animal

> fat used in the vulcanization process in creating the tires. At one time

> they used animals to crash-test the vehicles. Animal products are used

> in the glue that is holding many pieces of the interior together. The

> cement roads have animal products in them and were laid by men wearing

> leather boots and gloves. Cars kill animals on the roads every time we

> drive (large ones we see and small insect ones we don't always see). The

> exhaust from the car is damaging the planet, including other animals.

> etc., etc.

>

> I would still look around to see what you can find that has no leather.

> But if the only one thing you have to compromise on is a stearing wheel

> then you may have to do it, just because there are no other options. Or

> you can look at different cars.

>

> Here's an interesting article on this topic:

> http://www.pressaction.com/news/weblog/full_article/mickeyz08262004/

>

> Best of luck!

> Jacqueline

>

 

 

 

 

 

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Hi Karen,

We've had cars sent from other states that had no leather seats/steering

cover . it meant we waited longer, but we were able to order it and get

it. I don't know why that isn't possible . you'd think they'd want to

make the sale, and if you can customize other things, why not this? We

had a problem when we bought our Prius that to get the upgraded GPS and

everything, it always came with leather seats - until we ordered it from

a couple states away. You could try using a car broker - that is

soooooo convenient! You don't pay them anything, the dealer pays them

for the business, and they shop around for you and find all the specs

you want - color, custom things, whatever. Good luck!

Lorraine

 

 

On

Behalf Of Karen Detling

Tuesday, March 30, 2010 7:59 AM

 

Car frustration

 

 

We need to buy a new car, and the problem is that almost everything that

we like has leather seats or at least a leather wrapped steering wheel.

I'm not talking high-end luxury cars either. We are interested in

hybrids, and my husband has been doing the preliminary research. I'm not

sure of all the alternatives - some might be ok if you don't want to add

anything, but my husband wants some of those added things, like

satellite radio. Any upgrade involves leather in some way, and every

dealer says there is no way to special order it without. We walked away

from the Toyota hybrid last night (Camry, Corrolla?) because the dealer

said they can only get the cars Toyota ships to the Atlantic region, and

they all have leather steering wheels. You can ask for something else,

but in his experience you won't get it. (The Prius would work, but I'm

very short and even with my seat up all the way I had trouble seeing

over all the stuff on the dash). Why this need to have leather in

everything.

 

I guess what is really bothering me here is that once again I have to be

the person in the family who is no fun. I'm vegan, but the rest of the

family is vegetarian. Even when I was vegetarian, however, I would not

have wanted leather seats or steering wheel. My husband, however, does

not care about that. His vegetarianism begins and ends with food, so he

has no problems with leather shoes, belts, furniture, etc. He

understands my position, but I know he finds it irritating and says

things like, " if it weren't for the leather, we'd have so many more

options. " Last night he asked whether I could overlook a leather wrapped

steering wheel and just make a big donation to an animal rights charity.

 

 

Karen

 

 

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I understand your stand against the leather in the car, but unfortuately our

society so numb to the use of animals in produts that it is hard to have much

of a choice in anything.

You may have to compromise in the steering wheel department for now. After you

purchase the car, take it in and have a new, leather free steering wheel put on.

You can find them all over the internet and I am sure in automotive parts

stores. You can then either sell the offending steering wheel, throw it away, or

donate it. That way, you get rid of it. I do understand not wanting to buy it

all, but as you stated, the choices are not out there.

Good luck and I hope this helps some.

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I had no idea about down in furniture. Explains why my allergies bug me more

in some places than other places.

This is one reason I always try to bring my own pillow when I travel since I

can't breathe in the morning when I have forgotten or couldn't bring my own

pillow and the only option was a down pillow.

I would think the leather option was more of an upgrade in cars. It doesn't

solve it, but you can get other steering wheel covers so you don't have to

look at or touch it if you can't get away from it.

We will likely be facing the same as we are in need of a new-to-us car (new

isn't an option for us).

This is why I love this list.

 

Missie

 

On Mar 31, 2010 11:23 AM, <kdetling wrote:

 

 

 

 

 

I have the same issue with down in furniture. Although the ethics of it is a

big concern, I also have a huge bird phobia, and sitting on a cushion of

feathers just creeps me out. It's the first thing I check in a hotel -

what's in the pillows. A couple of years ago we ordered a sofa and loveseat

from Arhaus and stipulated no down. We got a confirmation about that. They

arrived a couple of months later and we were loving them. Then, I started to

find feathers. I had to take one of the slipcovers off to wash it, and there

were more feathers. I looked and could clearly see feathers between the

cushion covers and the cushions. I could not sit on that furniture, plus I

was really angry that they had not complied with our request. My husband

called them and they replaced all the cushions. He, however, prefers the

down for comfort, so the loveseat has down and the sofa does not so I have

some place to sit. Same thing with some other furniture we ordered several

years ago. Two chairs and an ottoman. We orderd them with no down, and what

do I see recently sticking out of the ottoman?? A feather! The chairs seem

ok. That company is out of business, so we have no recourse.

 

Karen

 

- " Mary Chris " <mcjrunner To:

(AT) (DOT) ...

 

Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:05:29 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Re: ...

 

 

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Thanks. We have found a dealer who thinks they can switch them for us. We'll

have to see if that really happens.

 

 

 

One problem with buying another steering wheel can be that electronic controls

are built in. At least that is what we were told and why many dealers said they

could not just swtich them.

 

 

 

 

-

" itshotinjt04 " <itshotinjt04

 

Wednesday, March 31, 2010 12:30:15 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern

Re: Car frustration

 

 

 

 

 

 

I understand your stand against the leather in the car, but unfortuately our

society so numb to the use of animals in produts that it is hard to have much of

a choice in anything.

You may have to compromise in the steering wheel department for now. After you

purchase the car, take it in and have a new, leather free steering wheel put on.

You can find them all over the internet and I am sure in automotive parts

stores. You can then either sell the offending steering wheel, throw it away, or

donate it. That way, you get rid of it. I do understand not wanting to buy it

all, but as you stated, the choices are not out there.

Good luck and I hope this helps some.

 

 

 

 

 

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