Guest guest Posted December 29, 2008 Report Share Posted December 29, 2008 I simply did a fast search on the Internet to help out someone and did a copy and paste on that post. When you see egg, feel free to add the word substitute after it. Who out there wouldn't know that? When you see agave nectar after honey, that should suffice just as the milk said of choice. Butter already has a footnote in it as well. The only one really a newbie could mess up on is gelatine and since the recipe already had 4 tsp xanthan gum right before it, it's easiest converted to switching that 1 tsp of gelatin by adding another tsp of xanthan to make it a total of 5 tsp xanthan and taking out the gelatin altogether. So you've upset someone, Alice, by the way you chose to write your unkind remark. It wasn't done intentionally but I feel your response was. Have a great day everybody! Karen ilovetocookvegan2 Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:15 AM Re: Homemade pasta? Alice, I apologize for allowing non-vegan recipes to go through to the group. As you know, I approve all messages, and have been doing that today via my cell phone rather than on my computer while away from home. Entire messages don't come through on my cell phone easily, and I was trusting the comments to be on topic after reading the first sentence or two. I will check more carefully from now on --- and really encourage group members to keep in mind that we are a group that caters to gluten free AND vegan cooking. Much appreciation for keeping on topic! LaDonna , Alice Leonard <alice wrote: > I'm here because this is a vegan list, and I feel quite upset when > people post non-vegan recipes - this one contains gelatine, egg, > butter and honey.....! > Best wishes > alice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Hi Karen My comment wasn't just aimed at you - this is something that has been bugging me for a while. I'm vegan for ethical reasons, and when I see animal products used in recipes I can't help but think of the baby calves taken away from their mothers so that humans can drink cows' milk, and all the other gory stuff that goes on to put animal products on people's plates. Best wishes alice On 30/12/2008, at 2:41 AM, Karen Fielder wrote: > I simply did a fast search on the Internet to help out someone and > did a copy and paste on that post. When you see egg, feel free to > add the word substitute after it. Who out there wouldn't know that? > When you see agave nectar after honey, that should suffice just as > the milk said of choice. Butter already has a footnote in it as > well. The only one really a newbie could mess up on is gelatine and > since the recipe already had 4 tsp xanthan gum right before it, it's > easiest converted to switching that 1 tsp of gelatin by adding > another tsp of xanthan to make it a total of 5 tsp xanthan and > taking out the gelatin altogether. > > So you've upset someone, Alice, by the way you chose to write your > unkind remark. It wasn't done intentionally but I feel your response > was. Have a great day everybody! > > Karen > > ilovetocookvegan2 > Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:15 AM > > Re: Homemade pasta? > > Alice, I apologize for allowing non-vegan recipes to go through to the > group. As you know, I approve all messages, and have been doing that > today via my cell phone rather than on my computer while away from > home. Entire messages don't come through on my cell phone easily, and > I was trusting the comments to be on topic after reading the first > sentence or two. I will check more carefully from now on --- and > really encourage group members to keep in mind that we are a group > that caters to gluten free AND vegan cooking. > > Much appreciation for keeping on topic! > LaDonna > > , Alice Leonard > <alice wrote: > > > I'm here because this is a vegan list, and I feel quite upset when > > people post non-vegan recipes - this one contains gelatine, egg, > > butter and honey.....! > > Best wishes > > alice > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I know a couple of people who have tried to make gluten-free baklava with egg subs and have not had success. Has anyone in the group had success with it? Sally On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 8:41 AM, Karen Fielder <karenandbrandonwrote: > I simply did a fast search on the Internet to help out someone and did a > copy and paste on that post. When you see egg, feel free to add the word > substitute after it. Who out there wouldn't know that? When you see agave > nectar after honey, that should suffice just as the milk said of choice. > Butter already has a footnote in it as well. The only one really a newbie > could mess up on is gelatine and since the recipe already had 4 tsp xanthan > gum right before it, it's easiest converted to switching that 1 tsp of > gelatin by adding another tsp of xanthan to make it a total of 5 tsp xanthan > and taking out the gelatin altogether. > > So you've upset someone, Alice, by the way you chose to write your unkind > remark. It wasn't done intentionally but I feel your response was. Have a > great day everybody! > > Karen > > ilovetocookvegan2 > Tuesday, December 30, 2008 1:15 AM > To: <%40> > Re: Homemade pasta? > > Alice, I apologize for allowing non-vegan recipes to go through to the > group. As you know, I approve all messages, and have been doing that > today via my cell phone rather than on my computer while away from > home. Entire messages don't come through on my cell phone easily, and > I was trusting the comments to be on topic after reading the first > sentence or two. I will check more carefully from now on --- and > really encourage group members to keep in mind that we are a group > that caters to gluten free AND vegan cooking. > > Much appreciation for keeping on topic! > LaDonna > > --- In <%40>, > Alice Leonard > <alice wrote: > > > I'm here because this is a vegan list, and I feel quite upset when > > people post non-vegan recipes - this one contains gelatine, egg, > > butter and honey.....! > > Best wishes > > alice > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 , " Sally Parrott Ashbrook " <sally.parrott wrote: > > I know a couple of people who have tried to make gluten-free baklava with egg subs and have not had success. Has anyone in the group had success with it? I haven't tried it, Sally, but I'm wondering if they have used the flax seed gel option? I've found that this egg sub works amazingly well in some unusual applications. LaDonna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 > I know a couple of people who have tried to make gluten-free baklava with > egg subs and have not had success. Has anyone in the group had success with > it? Sally, me again --- just thinking about gluten-free and vegan baklava. Traditional baklava doesn't contain eggs, so are you referring to a gluten-free phyllo version that might *need* eggs for binding with the gluten-free flours? I would love a vegan and gluten-free phyllo recipe --- I wonder if one exists? That might be where the flax gel could be helpful. . . LaDonna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Karen In this I agree with Alice. It's a vegan list. It's offensive to those who choose to be vegan for their morals (for lack of a better word) rather than need. It's been a life choice for them and they do so for a variety of reasons, but often do find it offensive to have a safe place like this list invaded with offending recipes. There is no need to be rude about the request. Alice has a right to state that she finds it offensive and since the list owner has asked that such recipes include a notation about substitutions then that's what we all should do. If it doesn't matter to you, that's fine, but it matters to others, and it should be respected. BL On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 5:41 AM, Karen Fielder <karenandbrandonwrote: > I simply did a fast search on the Internet to help out someone and did a > copy and paste on that post. When you see egg, feel free to add the word > substitute after it. Who out there wouldn't know that? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Sally No, phyllo pastries are one thing that doesn't work for me. BL On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Sally Parrott Ashbrook < sally.parrott wrote: > I know a couple of people who have tried to make gluten-free baklava > with > egg subs and have not had success. Has anyone in the group had success with > it? > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 Yes, I'm talking about gf phyllo needing eggs. I believe flax eggs is what the people I know have tried. On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Brenda-Lee Olson < shalomaleichemacademy wrote: > Sally > > No, phyllo pastries are one thing that doesn't work for me. > > BL > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Sally Parrott Ashbrook < > sally.parrott <sally.parrott%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > I know a couple of people who have tried to make gluten-free baklava > > with > > egg subs and have not had success. Has anyone in the group had success > with > > it? > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 It's not the egg so much for me as the degree of fats and fat integration which is what lifts the dough. Only butter seems to do this. Other fats made from vegetables don't have the same capabilities to hold together in little globules. I have tried coconut butter, palm shortening, vegetable shortening, etc. Now that I can't have soy I am even more restricted in my fat choices, so baklava is a wistful dream :-) BL On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Sally Parrott Ashbrook < sally.parrott wrote: > Yes, I'm talking about gf phyllo needing eggs. I believe flax eggs is > what the people I know have tried. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 I haven't figured out the phylo dough yet but for lots of desserts I use applesauce in place of eggs. I find the final texture to be more desirable. For baklava I've also been experimenting with using thin slices of apple in place of pastry. It's softer and a little unusual, but the flavors meld nicely with nuts and agave. On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Sally Parrott Ashbrook < sally.parrott wrote: > Yes, I'm talking about gf phyllo needing eggs. I believe flax eggs is > what > the people I know have tried. > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Brenda-Lee Olson < > shalomaleichemacademy <shalomaleichemacademy%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > Sally > > > > No, phyllo pastries are one thing that doesn't work for me. > > > > BL > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Sally Parrott Ashbrook < > > sally.parrott <sally.parrott%40gmail.com> <sally.parrott% > 40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > I know a couple of people who have tried to make gluten-free baklava > > > with > > > egg subs and have not had success. Has anyone in the group had success > > with > > > it? > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2008 Report Share Posted December 30, 2008 How about avocado . . . maybe the green would blend with the pistachios . . . :-) Pam On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 3:16 PM, Brenda-Lee Olson <shalomaleichemacademy wrote: > It's not the egg so much for me as the degree of fats and fat integration > which is what lifts the dough. Only butter seems to do this. Other fats > made from vegetables don't have the same capabilities to hold together in > little globules. > > I have tried coconut butter, palm shortening, vegetable shortening, etc. > Now that I can't have soy I am even more restricted in my fat choices, so > baklava is a wistful dream :-) > > BL > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 2:01 PM, Sally Parrott Ashbrook < > sally.parrott wrote: > >> Yes, I'm talking about gf phyllo needing eggs. I believe flax eggs is >> what the people I know have tried. >> > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 ooh could you possibly post your recipe for the apple / nuts baklava.. that sounds yum! Thanks! lara --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Jae Jones <recyclednew wrote: > Jae Jones <recyclednew > Re: Filo/Phyllo and Baklava post > > Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 4:21 PM > I haven't figured out the phylo dough yet but for lots > of desserts I use > applesauce in place of eggs. I find the final texture to be > more desirable. > > For baklava I've also been experimenting with using > thin slices of apple in > place of pastry. It's softer and a little unusual, but > the flavors meld > nicely with nuts and agave. > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Sally Parrott Ashbrook > < > sally.parrott wrote: > > > Yes, I'm talking about gf phyllo needing eggs. I > believe flax eggs is > > what > > the people I know have tried. > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Brenda-Lee Olson < > > shalomaleichemacademy > <shalomaleichemacademy%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > Sally > > > > > > No, phyllo pastries are one thing that > doesn't work for me. > > > > > > BL > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Sally Parrott > Ashbrook < > > > sally.parrott > <sally.parrott%40gmail.com> <sally.parrott% > > 40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > I know a couple of people who have tried to > make gluten-free baklava > > > > with > > > > egg subs and have not had success. Has > anyone in the group had success > > > with > > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > " This isn't a matter of Republican and > Democrat. It's not liberal. It's not > > conservative. It's simply common sense. This is a > national emergency. . . . > > You have to be honest about the way the biosphere > works, and we have to > > move > > this country very rapidly in a different > direction. " --John Orr > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2008 Report Share Posted December 31, 2008 It appears to be an innocent mistake and Karen likely doesn't need to be battered (pardon the pun) any longer than she has about it. I for one had no idea honey was a no-no for vegans until reading this list. With all of my allergies and intolerances I would be seriously nutritionally deficient if I could not occasionally eat non-vegetable protein sources. If vegans had to cut all beans and legumes including soy/nuts, flax plus the entire brassica family out of their diet, my guess is their nutritional status would not be very good. So it may be good for everyone to keep in mind that while some are here by choice or moral code, some are here by necessity. It doesn't make the needs of one greater than the other, but both sides should be equally respectful of the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I don't really have a recipe, I just kind of wing it, as I'm still experimenting with it, but here goes nothing... Basically, you peel, core and thinly slice the apples. A mandolin is nice for the thinly slicing part. Then I use Earth Balance " butter " , but any with do, melted with some cinnamon (optional). Use a pastry brush and layer about 3-4 layers high of apples with butter painted on between layers. Then put your nut mixture in (I prefer pecans, but the traditional or any nuts will work) and then a few more layers of apples/butter, just like the real thing. I bake at 350 for about 35-45 minutes. If you use thinker slices of apple you made need to let it go a little longer, until the apples are tender. I use agave nectar instead of honey. It's more like a pie in texture because of the apples. I was thinking of trying to fry the apples and try to crisp them up some or possibly use dehydrated apples to see if gives a crispier final texture. Also thinking of trying some individual sized ones, in cupcake/muffin tins to see if that works out easier/better than a full cake pan worth. Play around with it and enjoy! On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Lara Ellis <Larellis wrote: > ooh could you possibly post your recipe for the apple / nuts baklava.. > that sounds yum! Thanks! > lara > > --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Jae Jones <recyclednew<recyclednew%40gmail.com>> > wrote: > > > Jae Jones <recyclednew <recyclednew%40gmail.com>> > > Re: Filo/Phyllo and Baklava post > > To: <%40> > > Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 4:21 PM > > > I haven't figured out the phylo dough yet but for lots > > of desserts I use > > applesauce in place of eggs. I find the final texture to be > > more desirable. > > > > For baklava I've also been experimenting with using > > thin slices of apple in > > place of pastry. It's softer and a little unusual, but > > the flavors meld > > nicely with nuts and agave. > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Sally Parrott Ashbrook > > < > > sally.parrott <sally.parrott%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > Yes, I'm talking about gf phyllo needing eggs. I > > believe flax eggs is > > > what > > > the people I know have tried. > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Brenda-Lee Olson < > > > shalomaleichemacademy <shalomaleichemacademy%40gmail.com> > > <shalomaleichemacademy%40gmail.com>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Sally > > > > > > > > No, phyllo pastries are one thing that > > doesn't work for me. > > > > > > > > BL > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Sally Parrott > > Ashbrook < > > > > sally.parrott <sally.parrott%40gmail.com> > > <sally.parrott%40gmail.com> <sally.parrott% > > > 40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > I know a couple of people who have tried to > > make gluten-free baklava > > > > > with > > > > > egg subs and have not had success. Has > > anyone in the group had success > > > > with > > > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > " This isn't a matter of Republican and > > Democrat. It's not liberal. It's not > > > conservative. It's simply common sense. This is a > > national emergency. . . . > > > You have to be honest about the way the biosphere > > works, and we have to > > > move > > > this country very rapidly in a different > > direction. " --John Orr > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 Very interesting, Jae! That's very creative. On Wed, Dec 31, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Jae Jones <recyclednew wrote: > I don't really have a recipe, I just kind of wing it, as I'm still > experimenting with it, but here goes nothing... > > Basically, you peel, core and thinly slice the apples. A mandolin is nice > for the thinly slicing part. Then I use Earth Balance " butter " , but any > with > do, melted with some cinnamon (optional). Use a pastry brush and layer > about > 3-4 layers high of apples with butter painted on between layers. Then put > your nut mixture in (I prefer pecans, but the traditional or any nuts will > work) and then a few more layers of apples/butter, just like the real > thing. > I bake at 350 for about 35-45 minutes. If you use thinker slices of apple > you made need to let it go a little longer, until the apples are tender. I > use agave nectar instead of honey. > > It's more like a pie in texture because of the apples. I was thinking of > trying to fry the apples and try to crisp them up some or possibly use > dehydrated apples to see if gives a crispier final texture. Also thinking > of > trying some individual sized ones, in cupcake/muffin tins to see if that > works out easier/better than a full cake pan worth. Play around with it and > enjoy! > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Lara Ellis <Larellis<Larellis%40>> > wrote: > > > ooh could you possibly post your recipe for the apple / nuts baklava.. > > that sounds yum! Thanks! > > lara > > > > --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Jae Jones <recyclednew<recyclednew%40gmail.com> > <recyclednew%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > Jae Jones <recyclednew <recyclednew%40gmail.com><recyclednew% > 40gmail.com>> > > > Re: Filo/Phyllo and Baklava post > > > To: <%40> > <%40> > > > Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 4:21 PM > > > > > I haven't figured out the phylo dough yet but for lots > > > of desserts I use > > > applesauce in place of eggs. I find the final texture to be > > > more desirable. > > > > > > For baklava I've also been experimenting with using > > > thin slices of apple in > > > place of pastry. It's softer and a little unusual, but > > > the flavors meld > > > nicely with nuts and agave. > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Sally Parrott Ashbrook > > > < > > > sally.parrott <sally.parrott%40gmail.com> <sally.parrott% > 40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, I'm talking about gf phyllo needing eggs. I > > > believe flax eggs is > > > > what > > > > the people I know have tried. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Brenda-Lee Olson < > > > > shalomaleichemacademy <shalomaleichemacademy%40gmail.com><shalomaleichemacademy% > 40gmail.com> > > > <shalomaleichemacademy%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sally > > > > > > > > > > No, phyllo pastries are one thing that > > > doesn't work for me. > > > > > > > > > > BL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Sally Parrott > > > Ashbrook < > > > > > sally.parrott <sally.parrott%40gmail.com><sally.parrott% > 40gmail.com> > > > <sally.parrott%40gmail.com> <sally.parrott% > > > > 40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I know a couple of people who have tried to > > > make gluten-free baklava > > > > > > with > > > > > > egg subs and have not had success. Has > > > anyone in the group had success > > > > > with > > > > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > " This isn't a matter of Republican and > > > Democrat. It's not liberal. It's not > > > > conservative. It's simply common sense. This is a > > > national emergency. . . . > > > > You have to be honest about the way the biosphere > > > works, and we have to > > > > move > > > > this country very rapidly in a different > > > direction. " --John Orr > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 1, 2009 Report Share Posted January 1, 2009 I did this a couple Mother's Days ago. Also, one using pear instead. You can see a picture on my blog: http://www.zenpawn.com/vegblog/2007/05/14/mothers-day-2/ It was a hit. -Erin http://www.VeganDoneLight.com , " Jae Jones " <recyclednew wrote: > > I don't really have a recipe, I just kind of wing it, as I'm still > experimenting with it, but here goes nothing... > > Basically, you peel, core and thinly slice the apples. A mandolin is nice > for the thinly slicing part. Then I use Earth Balance " butter " , but any with > do, melted with some cinnamon (optional). Use a pastry brush and layer about > 3-4 layers high of apples with butter painted on between layers. Then put > your nut mixture in (I prefer pecans, but the traditional or any nuts will > work) and then a few more layers of apples/butter, just like the real thing. > I bake at 350 for about 35-45 minutes. If you use thinker slices of apple > you made need to let it go a little longer, until the apples are tender. I > use agave nectar instead of honey. > > It's more like a pie in texture because of the apples. I was thinking of > trying to fry the apples and try to crisp them up some or possibly use > dehydrated apples to see if gives a crispier final texture. Also thinking of > trying some individual sized ones, in cupcake/muffin tins to see if that > works out easier/better than a full cake pan worth. Play around with it and > enjoy! > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 11:37 PM, Lara Ellis <Larellis wrote: > > > ooh could you possibly post your recipe for the apple / nuts baklava.. > > that sounds yum! Thanks! > > lara > > > > --- On Tue, 12/30/08, Jae Jones <recyclednew<recyclednew%40gmail.com>> > > wrote: > > > > > Jae Jones <recyclednew <recyclednew%40gmail.com>> > > > Re: Filo/Phyllo and Baklava post > > > To: <%40> > > > Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 4:21 PM > > > > > I haven't figured out the phylo dough yet but for lots > > > of desserts I use > > > applesauce in place of eggs. I find the final texture to be > > > more desirable. > > > > > > For baklava I've also been experimenting with using > > > thin slices of apple in > > > place of pastry. It's softer and a little unusual, but > > > the flavors meld > > > nicely with nuts and agave. > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Sally Parrott Ashbrook > > > < > > > sally.parrott <sally.parrott%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > Yes, I'm talking about gf phyllo needing eggs. I > > > believe flax eggs is > > > > what > > > > the people I know have tried. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:51 PM, Brenda-Lee Olson < > > > > shalomaleichemacademy <shalomaleichemacademy%40gmail.com> > > > <shalomaleichemacademy%40gmail.com>> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Sally > > > > > > > > > > No, phyllo pastries are one thing that > > > doesn't work for me. > > > > > > > > > > BL > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 12:26 PM, Sally Parrott > > > Ashbrook < > > > > > sally.parrott <sally.parrott%40gmail.com> > > > <sally.parrott%40gmail.com> <sally.parrott% > > > > 40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I know a couple of people who have tried to > > > make gluten-free baklava > > > > > > with > > > > > > egg subs and have not had success. Has > > > anyone in the group had success > > > > > with > > > > > > it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been > > > removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > " This isn't a matter of Republican and > > > Democrat. It's not liberal. It's not > > > > conservative. It's simply common sense. This is a > > > national emergency. . . . > > > > You have to be honest about the way the biosphere > > > works, and we have to > > > > move > > > > this country very rapidly in a different > > > direction. " --John Orr > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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