Guest guest Posted March 8, 2009 Report Share Posted March 8, 2009 You ROCK, Jae! Another option too, is to mention the fact there are Bible reading Christians who eat vegetarian as part of their religious observance. Deborah I've had people telling me it's in the bible ans stuff like that too! I respond with " then go eat you cat/dog/hamster for dinner! " which really offends them! " Well your the one who said god put animals here for us to eat so with that theory, your beloved pet is dinner! " lol Nobody argues with me from a religious standpoint any more because I will take it to that extreme! I figure if your going to open that door you better be prepared to acknowledge the worst! Don't bite your tongue in those situations. It's one thing if your starting it and trying to ruin their dinner because you don't eat meat, but if your being polite and minding your own plate and they start getting defensive and arguing stupidity, you have every right to defend yourself with a valid comment that will surely upset them more but they opened that door! So it's their problem, not yours! If they can't wrap their head around the thought of eating their own beloved pet then they have no business arguing that eating animals is ok because the bible tells them so! I don't start argument, I just end them! I think if people are going to attack you because of your personal choices, you have every right to make them put their foot in their mouth! I've never told people what they should or shouldn't eat, and they have no right telling me that I should eat what I can't or don't want to eat! Furthermore, the religious argument is flawed in that those people assume that everybody believes as they do. This is not a christian dictatorship and I'm offended when people a simple dietary choice as a means of attacking your values and trying to force their religious views onto you! Which is why my response is perfect because it stops them dead in their tracks and leaves them speechless! Who's going to expect a vegan to tell them to go eat their cat? lol Not that I'd actually want them to, and I know they wouldn't! It's the shock factor! You have to mess with people who try to mess with you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Lately I've been putting up with (because she's family) a born again Christian who eats meat but is on a cruelty free products obsession! Every time she starts lecturing me about products I shouldn't buy because the company tests on animals, I simply just say " and you eat meat! " The last justification I got was not bible related at all but was so ridiculously, profoundly idiotic that it left me speechless for a moment. (Kind of like when a waitress brings you rolls made with white flour!) The new defense is " well the animals that are made into meat are not tortured or hurt like they are in animal testing! " Hearing that just sent me straight into a state of shock! Ya think the cow that made your hamburger was tickled to death? Where do people come up with this stuff??? I gave her the Meet Your Meat video. She hasn't watched it and she still happily enjoys her meat! I just don't understand how someone can talk the talk when they refuse to walk the walk! If you want to eat meat then fine, I'm not going to try to force vegetarianism to any degree on a person. It just infuriates me when someone like her tries to tell me what I should and shouldn't buy when they really aren't walking that walk! If you want to join peta and lecture cruelty free and boycott P & G, that's fine and that's your choice, but don't get in my face about my PUR water filter that's a P & G product while your scarfing down a hamburger! That just infuriates me to no end! When your perfect then you can lecture me, and even then, I won't listen! I am my own person and I make my own choices, right or wrong! lol On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Deborah Pageau <dpageau wrote: > You ROCK, Jae! > > Another option too, is to mention the fact there are Bible reading > Christians who eat vegetarian as part of their religious observance. > > Deborah > > I've had people telling me it's in the bible ans stuff like that too! I > respond with " then go eat you cat/dog/hamster for dinner! " which really > offends them! " Well your the one who said god put animals here for us to > eat > so with that theory, your beloved pet is dinner! " lol Nobody argues with me > from a religious standpoint any more because I will take it to that > extreme! > I figure if your going to open that door you better be prepared to > acknowledge the worst! Don't bite your tongue in those situations. It's one > thing if your starting it and trying to ruin their dinner because you don't > eat meat, but if your being polite and minding your own plate and they > start > getting defensive and arguing stupidity, you have every right to defend > yourself with a valid comment that will surely upset them more but they > opened that door! So it's their problem, not yours! If they can't wrap > their > head around the thought of eating their own beloved pet then they have no > business arguing that eating animals is ok because the bible tells them so! > I don't start argument, I just end them! I think if people are going to > attack you because of your personal choices, you have every right to make > them put their foot in their mouth! I've never told people what they should > or shouldn't eat, and they have no right telling me that I should eat what > I > can't or don't want to eat! Furthermore, the religious argument is flawed > in > that those people assume that everybody believes as they do. This is not a > christian dictatorship and I'm offended when people a simple dietary choice > as a means of attacking your values and trying to force their religious > views onto you! Which is why my response is perfect because it stops them > dead in their tracks and leaves them speechless! Who's going to expect a > vegan to tell them to go eat their cat? lol Not that I'd actually want them > to, and I know they wouldn't! It's the shock factor! > You have to mess with people who try to mess with you! > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I have been using a resource that is much less " threatening " for family and friends: the award-winning " Eating " DVD by Mike Anderson ( http://ravediet.com/whatsinfilm.htm). Don't let the innocent title fool you (but it WILL fool those to whom you give it!) - this documentary is really hard-hitting. I call it the " Vegan-in-an-Instant " video, because 9 or 10 out of the 12 people I've showed it to have become vegan immediately. One friend had put chicken on to bake while we watched the video, and when it ended, she looked at me sadly, and said " what am I gonna do with all that chicken?! " She kindly donated it to my dog, and she has not touched animal products since (that was last summer). You might want to have a look at this video - they are cheap - only $9.99, and you can get lower prices for larger quantities. Several of us here have bought them in bulk to give to our friends (they made great stocking stuffers this past Xmas!) It's money well spent, as it supports the cause, and it completely gets you out of the middle of those unproductive arguments. Another great resource (for people willing to read books!) is Campbell's book The China Study. You can get it discounted for $10-11: http://www.amazon.com/China-Study-Comprehensive-Nutrition-Implications/dp/193210\ 0660/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid=1236709548 & sr=8-1 -MEC On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Jae Jones <recyclednew wrote: > Lately I've been putting up with (because she's family) a born again > Christian who eats meat but is on a cruelty free products obsession! Every > time she starts lecturing me about products I shouldn't buy because the > company tests on animals, I simply just say " and you eat meat! " The last > justification I got was not bible related at all but was so ridiculously, > profoundly idiotic that it left me speechless for a moment. (Kind of like > when a waitress brings you rolls made with white flour!) The new defense is > " well the animals that are made into meat are not tortured or hurt like > they > are in animal testing! " Hearing that just sent me straight into a state of > shock! Ya think the cow that made your hamburger was tickled to death? > Where > do people come up with this stuff??? I gave her the Meet Your Meat video. > She hasn't watched it and she still happily enjoys her meat! > > I just don't understand how someone can talk the talk when they refuse to > walk the walk! If you want to eat meat then fine, I'm not going to try to > force vegetarianism to any degree on a person. It just infuriates me when > someone like her tries to tell me what I should and shouldn't buy when they > really aren't walking that walk! If you want to join peta and lecture > cruelty free and boycott P & G, that's fine and that's your choice, but don't > get in my face about my PUR water filter that's a P & G product while your > scarfing down a hamburger! That just infuriates me to no end! When your > perfect then you can lecture me, and even then, I won't listen! I am my own > person and I make my own choices, right or wrong! lol > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Deborah Pageau <dpageau<dpageau%40dccnet.com>> > wrote: > > > You ROCK, Jae! > > > > Another option too, is to mention the fact there are Bible reading > > Christians who eat vegetarian as part of their religious observance. > > > > Deborah > > > > I've had people telling me it's in the bible ans stuff like that too! I > > respond with " then go eat you cat/dog/hamster for dinner! " which really > > offends them! " Well your the one who said god put animals here for us to > > eat > > so with that theory, your beloved pet is dinner! " lol Nobody argues with > me > > from a religious standpoint any more because I will take it to that > > extreme! > > I figure if your going to open that door you better be prepared to > > acknowledge the worst! Don't bite your tongue in those situations. It's > one > > thing if your starting it and trying to ruin their dinner because you > don't > > eat meat, but if your being polite and minding your own plate and they > > start > > getting defensive and arguing stupidity, you have every right to defend > > yourself with a valid comment that will surely upset them more but they > > opened that door! So it's their problem, not yours! If they can't wrap > > their > > head around the thought of eating their own beloved pet then they have no > > business arguing that eating animals is ok because the bible tells them > so! > > I don't start argument, I just end them! I think if people are going to > > attack you because of your personal choices, you have every right to make > > them put their foot in their mouth! I've never told people what they > should > > or shouldn't eat, and they have no right telling me that I should eat > what > > I > > can't or don't want to eat! Furthermore, the religious argument is flawed > > in > > that those people assume that everybody believes as they do. This is not > a > > christian dictatorship and I'm offended when people a simple dietary > choice > > as a means of attacking your values and trying to force their religious > > views onto you! Which is why my response is perfect because it stops them > > dead in their tracks and leaves them speechless! Who's going to expect a > > vegan to tell them to go eat their cat? lol Not that I'd actually want > them > > to, and I know they wouldn't! It's the shock factor! > > You have to mess with people who try to mess with you! > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 On Mar 10, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Mary Cotter wrote: > I have been using a resource that is much less " threatening " for > family and > friends: the award-winning " Eating " DVD by Mike Anderson ( > http://ravediet.com/whatsinfilm.htm). Don't let the innocent title > fool you > (but it WILL fool those to whom you give it!) - this documentary is > really > hard-hitting. I call it the " Vegan-in-an-Instant " video ==== I can't recommend this video highly enough. it's all based on peer reviewed research (at least the health claims are). I buy 10 at a time and give them out. My IL's were giving my kids a hard time about being vegan. they kept on telling them a little bit of meat wouldn't harm them. (they would also try the " a little bit of aspartame " is fine as well). they did their best to turn me into the draconian mother who denied her children treats and good food. I showed my children the rave diet dvd (especially the animal farming ones) and I read them some of Joel Fuhrman's writings. They've also watched some of Michael Geger's DVDs on nutrition wiht me. I am no longer the ogre. They would hurl if you tried to force meat down their throats. They understand from a health POV why it is best for you to avoid animal products and they understand how cruel factory farming is and they refuse to have anything to do with it. we raw feed our dogs and I am lucky that a girlfriend's husband hunts and gives me some of his spoils. it gets pricy only feeding your dogs range fed, cage free etc animals. thankfully my mutts are tiny so they dont' eat much Sherene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 Thanks for the info about these videos. I'm going to pass them on to a friend as well because she's veggie and her ex is not and they have a daughter who is really confused at this point because of the same kind of stuff you where saying about your IL's. Her father tells her she has to eat meat if she wants to grow up strong and healthy and being veggie will make her gay and all kinds of ridiculous crap! My friend believes that it's her daughter's choice and is not trying to force the diet or lifestyle onto her, but she should be given honest facts so she can make an informed decision. The other problem with her father's attitude is that not only is he making his daughter feel like she has to eat meat but he's also conditioning her into prejudices like being gay is really bad! She doesn't even know what sex is really yet and she's already developing intolerance's against sexualities! Then about an hour before it's time for her to go back with her mom he gives her lots of candy and soda so she's sick and hyper all night. I know he does it out of spite towards my friend but it's the kid that is hurt in these situations! I think it's wrong to manipulate kids with lies and cause them harm out of spite towards a parent. Hopefully though these videos will help her to help her daughter make informed decisions and then she can educate her father with the facts! We've already come up with some ideas for t-shirts to make for her to wear about the smoking and drinking! (Yeah, he's a real winner!) Death to ignorance! On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Sherene Silverberg <sherene wrote: > > On Mar 10, 2009, at 2:31 PM, Mary Cotter wrote: > > > I have been using a resource that is much less " threatening " for > > family and > > friends: the award-winning " Eating " DVD by Mike Anderson ( > > http://ravediet.com/whatsinfilm.htm). Don't let the innocent title > > fool you > > (but it WILL fool those to whom you give it!) - this documentary is > > really > > hard-hitting. I call it the " Vegan-in-an-Instant " video > ==== > > I can't recommend this video highly enough. it's all based on peer > reviewed research (at least the health claims are). > > I buy 10 at a time and give them out. > > My IL's were giving my kids a hard time about being vegan. they kept > on telling them a little bit of meat wouldn't harm them. (they would > also try the " a little bit of aspartame " is fine as well). > > they did their best to turn me into the draconian mother who denied > her children treats and good food. > > I showed my children the rave diet dvd (especially the animal farming > ones) and I read them some of Joel Fuhrman's writings. They've also > watched some of Michael Geger's DVDs on nutrition wiht me. > > I am no longer the ogre. They would hurl if you tried to force meat > down their throats. They understand from a health POV why it is best > for you to avoid animal products and they understand how cruel factory > farming is and they refuse to have anything to do with it. > > we raw feed our dogs and I am lucky that a girlfriend's husband hunts > and gives me some of his spoils. it gets pricy only feeding your dogs > range fed, cage free etc animals. thankfully my mutts are tiny so they > dont' eat much > > Sherene > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 My advice, have patience, listen to anyone who has information about testing, cruelty and affiliations that might enlighten you and help animals. It doesn't matter what they are doing with the information, it only matters what you do with the information. And everytime someone brings up the topic of cruelty and not wanting to participate in it, then treat it as an opportunity to enlighten them. Don't be upset that people don't see the connections as it took each one of us time to reach the level of knowledge we have. Everyone has a journey, so let's try and be the witnesses to that. --- On Tue, 3/10/09, Mary Cotter <mcotter64 wrote: Mary Cotter <mcotter64 Re: let them eat hamster! Tuesday, March 10, 2009, 12:31 PM I have been using a resource that is much less " threatening " for family and friends: the award-winning " Eating " DVD by Mike Anderson ( http://ravediet. com/whatsinfilm. htm). Don't let the innocent title fool you (but it WILL fool those to whom you give it!) - this documentary is really hard-hitting. I call it the " Vegan-in-an- Instant " video, because 9 or 10 out of the 12 people I've showed it to have become vegan immediately. One friend had put chicken on to bake while we watched the video, and when it ended, she looked at me sadly, and said " what am I gonna do with all that chicken?! " She kindly donated it to my dog, and she has not touched animal products since (that was last summer). You might want to have a look at this video - they are cheap - only $9.99, and you can get lower prices for larger quantities. Several of us here have bought them in bulk to give to our friends (they made great stocking stuffers this past Xmas!) It's money well spent, as it supports the cause, and it completely gets you out of the middle of those unproductive arguments. Another great resource (for people willing to read books!) is Campbell's book The China Study. You can get it discounted for $10-11: http://www.amazon. com/China- Study-Comprehens ive-Nutrition- Implications/ dp/1932100660/ ref=pd_bbs_ sr_1?ie=UTF8 & s=books & qid= 1236709548 & sr=8-1 -MEC On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Jae Jones <recyclednew@ gmail.com> wrote: > Lately I've been putting up with (because she's family) a born again > Christian who eats meat but is on a cruelty free products obsession! Every > time she starts lecturing me about products I shouldn't buy because the > company tests on animals, I simply just say " and you eat meat! " The last > justification I got was not bible related at all but was so ridiculously, > profoundly idiotic that it left me speechless for a moment. (Kind of like > when a waitress brings you rolls made with white flour!) The new defense is > " well the animals that are made into meat are not tortured or hurt like > they > are in animal testing! " Hearing that just sent me straight into a state of > shock! Ya think the cow that made your hamburger was tickled to death? > Where > do people come up with this stuff??? I gave her the Meet Your Meat video. > She hasn't watched it and she still happily enjoys her meat! > > I just don't understand how someone can talk the talk when they refuse to > walk the walk! If you want to eat meat then fine, I'm not going to try to > force vegetarianism to any degree on a person. It just infuriates me when > someone like her tries to tell me what I should and shouldn't buy when they > really aren't walking that walk! If you want to join peta and lecture > cruelty free and boycott P & G, that's fine and that's your choice, but don't > get in my face about my PUR water filter that's a P & G product while your > scarfing down a hamburger! That just infuriates me to no end! When your > perfect then you can lecture me, and even then, I won't listen! I am my own > person and I make my own choices, right or wrong! lol > > On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 6:29 PM, Deborah Pageau <dpageau (AT) dccnet (DOT) com<dpageau%40dccnet. com>> > wrote: > > > You ROCK, Jae! > > > > Another option too, is to mention the fact there are Bible reading > > Christians who eat vegetarian as part of their religious observance. > > > > Deborah > > > > I've had people telling me it's in the bible ans stuff like that too! I > > respond with " then go eat you cat/dog/hamster for dinner! " which really > > offends them! " Well your the one who said god put animals here for us to > > eat > > so with that theory, your beloved pet is dinner! " lol Nobody argues with > me > > from a religious standpoint any more because I will take it to that > > extreme! > > I figure if your going to open that door you better be prepared to > > acknowledge the worst! Don't bite your tongue in those situations. It's > one > > thing if your starting it and trying to ruin their dinner because you > don't > > eat meat, but if your being polite and minding your own plate and they > > start > > getting defensive and arguing stupidity, you have every right to defend > > yourself with a valid comment that will surely upset them more but they > > opened that door! So it's their problem, not yours! If they can't wrap > > their > > head around the thought of eating their own beloved pet then they have no > > business arguing that eating animals is ok because the bible tells them > so! > > I don't start argument, I just end them! I think if people are going to > > attack you because of your personal choices, you have every right to make > > them put their foot in their mouth! I've never told people what they > should > > or shouldn't eat, and they have no right telling me that I should eat > what > > I > > can't or don't want to eat! Furthermore, the religious argument is flawed > > in > > that those people assume that everybody believes as they do. This is not > a > > christian dictatorship and I'm offended when people a simple dietary > choice > > as a means of attacking your values and trying to force their religious > > views onto you! Which is why my response is perfect because it stops them > > dead in their tracks and leaves them speechless! Who's going to expect a > > vegan to tell them to go eat their cat? lol Not that I'd actually want > them > > to, and I know they wouldn't! It's the shock factor! > > You have to mess with people who try to mess with you! > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 I can't afford the book/video but I did see what is posted out on YouTube. So how do you avoid vegetable oils and still ingest things high in oils like avocados, nuts, flaxseed, etc.? No pressed palm or coconut oil? Why not? How do you eat ground flaxseed every day or get EFAs when you are allergic to flax, soy and nuts? And table salt...I don't know how I would function without salt. I already cut so much out of my diet...but sea salt has to go now too? What do you do as of Dec. '09 next year when Codex Alimentarius goes into effect and you are no longer able to buy effective doses of supplements and vitamins? What about Monsanto's push to get rid of organic foods? So many questions, so little time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 11, 2009 Report Share Posted March 11, 2009 Only you can decide what is right for you. Moderation is key on any diet. Too much of even good for you food is bad for your health. I use sea salt because I believe it's a healthy alternative to table salt and I'm not going to give it up! Most products and videos are put out by extreme activist who have little or no real dietary restrictions except those they choose to have. I personally care a great deal about animals and do not wish to harm them in any way. Realistically speaking though you have to look at your own health and make choices that are going to benefit you primarily. Sacrificing yourself, no matter how noble it may seem, is just plain idiotic! I'm not saying you shouldn't care or even try here, I'm simply saying if you don't take care of yourself first, your no good to anybody! If we listened to and tried to conform ourselves to ever little detail that's put out there, we would go insane and cause ourselves more harm than good! Perfect example, water causes cancer! Are you going to stop drinking water because you believe that headline? What if the headline said " Fish dying believed to be linked to people drinking more water everyday! " If we stopped drinking water we would die! This is an extreme example, but it gets to the point! I try to eat healthy and do what is best for my personal health so that I can be my best for me and others. In my opinion, regardless of what personal choices each person makes, I believe that each individual can and should put themselves first. If you don't take care of you, nobody else is going to. Yes you need to make sure your kids and pets are safe and fed and happy, but if your not taking care of you first, your going to burn out fast and then who is going to take care of them? Read, watch, learn, get all the facts, evaluate your life, then keep what works for you and toss the rest! On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:50 PM, Amber Brown <amber_brownwrote: > I can't afford the book/video but I did see what is posted out on > YouTube. > > So how do you avoid vegetable oils and still ingest things high in oils > like avocados, nuts, flaxseed, etc.? No pressed palm or coconut oil? > Why not? > > How do you eat ground flaxseed every day or get EFAs when you are > allergic to flax, soy and nuts? > > And table salt...I don't know how I would function without salt. I > already cut so much out of my diet...but sea salt has to go now too? > > What do you do as of Dec. '09 next year when Codex Alimentarius goes > into effect and you are no longer able to buy effective doses of > supplements and vitamins? What about Monsanto's push to get rid of > organic foods? > > So many questions, so little time... > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Ugh! That pisses me off! I'm a christian and I'm vegan, and yet no one seems to be making any connections. If someone believes that suffering is wrong because of what they believe, then it should show by how they live. Obviously, that saying " most people would rather change their religion than change what they eat " is true! It makes no sense at all why so many people pray and work hard for all kinds of humanitarian causes, but then they go home and eat meat and wear dead animals. Sometimes trying to help people make the connection is nearly impossible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 12, 2009 Report Share Posted March 12, 2009 Heidi, maybe difficult, but not impossible. I understand your frustrations, but there are many religious people out there who do walk the talk. I moderate another vegan group on called Christian-Vegan-Cooking. We have more than 800 members who've shared concerns, recipes, and vegan cooking since 2000. It's not a gluten-free group, but there are many wonderful vegan Christian's there and a great wealth of information. You're welcome to browse the archives if you'd like. The group is sometimes quiet (after that time being together, conversation has it's natural ebb and flow). You can find that group at: http://www.Christian-Vegan-Cooking LaDonna On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Heidi Hizsa <heidihizsa wrote: > Obviously, that saying " most people would rather change their religion than > change what they eat " is true! It makes no sense at all why so many people > pray and work hard for all kinds of humanitarian causes, but then they go > home and eat meat and wear dead animals. Sometimes trying to help people > make the connection is nearly impossible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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