Long Term 811 effects

July 24, 2007

When you say 811 - do you specifically mean Doug Graham's program?

Where did you get these beliefs that they will have problems?

Here's what I find interesting...

The China Study points to a diet of 80-10-10 as being the healthiest

- allowing the body to rebuild and heal. They certainly didn't use

and info from NH to prejudice their results.

Hippocrates Health Institute says that a diet of 80-10-10 is the

healthiest - allows the body to rebuild and heal.

The NH Doug Graham group says that a diet of 80-10-10 is the

healthiest - allows the body to rebuild and heal.

All from completely different frames of reference. All with different

dietary mixes of whole plant-based foods.

I can see that you might question the long term effect of Doug

Graham's approach. It's about 20 years old.

And maybe Hippocrates, it's about 50 years old.

How many more hundreds (maybe thousands) of years would you like

people in China to eat like this to begin to " believe " that it might

have some validity?

Don't you find it odd (interesting) that they all agree on the carb/

fat/protein proportions?

Isn't it also interesting that doctors using a plant-based diet and

are being successful with cancer and heart disease are using an

80-10-10 program?

Be well!

..wyn

The Raw Retreat

http://TheRawRetreat.com

o) 888.EAT.RAW4LIFE

f) 877.236.6999

July 24, 2007

Jumping into the middle of this conversation, I just wanted

to point out it's probably not all that accurate to use the

Chinese diet as confirmation of the 811rv diet of Doug Graham.

The former, though reaching similar macronutrient ratios, does

so in a vastly different way than 811 (let alone the rv part).

The vast majority of the carbohydrates in the Chinese diet

studied by Dr. Campbell come from rice/legumes not raw fruits.

-Erin

http://www.dogmafreeraw.com

rawfood , The Raw Retreat <therawretreat

wrote:

>

> When you say 811 - do you specifically mean Doug Graham's program?

>

> Where did you get these beliefs that they will have problems?

>

> Here's what I find interesting...

>

> The China Study points to a diet of 80-10-10 as being the

healthiest

> - allowing the body to rebuild and heal. They certainly didn't use

> and info from NH to prejudice their results.

>

> Hippocrates Health Institute says that a diet of 80-10-10 is the

> healthiest - allows the body to rebuild and heal.

>

> The NH Doug Graham group says that a diet of 80-10-10 is the

> healthiest - allows the body to rebuild and heal.

>

> All from completely different frames of reference. All with

different

> dietary mixes of whole plant-based foods.

>

> I can see that you might question the long term effect of Doug

> Graham's approach. It's about 20 years old.

> And maybe Hippocrates, it's about 50 years old.

> How many more hundreds (maybe thousands) of years would you like

> people in China to eat like this to begin to " believe " that it

might

> have some validity?

>

> Don't you find it odd (interesting) that they all agree on the

carb/

> fat/protein proportions?

>

> Isn't it also interesting that doctors using a plant-based diet

and

> are being successful with cancer and heart disease are using an

> 80-10-10 program?

>

> Be well!

>

> .wyn

> The Raw Retreat

> http://TheRawRetreat.com

> o) 888.EAT.RAW4LIFE

> f) 877.236.6999

>

July 24, 2007

Wyn,

Thanks for posting this I know I feel best while maintaining an 80/10/10

diet.

~Sarah

The Raw Retreat <therawretreat wrote:

When you say 811 - do you specifically mean Doug Graham's program?

Where did you get these beliefs that they will have problems?

Here's what I find interesting...

The China Study points to a diet of 80-10-10 as being the healthiest

- allowing the body to rebuild and heal. They certainly didn't use

and info from NH to prejudice their results.

Hippocrates Health Institute says that a diet of 80-10-10 is the

healthiest - allows the body to rebuild and heal.

The NH Doug Graham group says that a diet of 80-10-10 is the

healthiest - allows the body to rebuild and heal.

All from completely different frames of reference. All with different

dietary mixes of whole plant-based foods.

I can see that you might question the long term effect of Doug

Graham's approach. It's about 20 years old.

And maybe Hippocrates, it's about 50 years old.

How many more hundreds (maybe thousands) of years would you like

people in China to eat like this to begin to " believe " that it might

have some validity?

Don't you find it odd (interesting) that they all agree on the carb/

fat/protein proportions?

Isn't it also interesting that doctors using a plant-based diet and

are being successful with cancer and heart disease are using an

80-10-10 program?

Be well!

..wyn

The Raw Retreat

http://TheRawRetreat.com

o) 888.EAT.RAW4LIFE

f) 877.236.6999

July 24, 2007

Thanks Erin, I was just thinking about all the rice the Chinese eat.

The problem that I see with the 80-10-10 diet is not so much the

ratio, it is lack of variety in the diet.

A handful of nuts and seeds and tons of fruits with a few leafy

greens and the exclusion of so many other nutrisous foods.

Also all that is stated is that the 80-10-10 is a healing and

rebuilding diet. Once healed and rebuilt...what then? I didn't see

any mention of this diet being a good maintenance of long term diet.

I also would like to know how many on this diet for a very long time

actually do long, hard physical labor, every day in all sorts of

weather extremes.

I have tried eating this way, exclusively, and for me, I might as

well just be on a fast. I am always hungry (no matter how much fruit

I eat), and weak feeling. Excersising makes me more hungry and feel

more weak, and I am continually cold unless I am outside in the heat

and sun.

When winter gets here and it really is cold. Misery won't even begin

to describe it, should I continue to eat this way.

So I have modified the diet slightly and am doing much better.

Still eating lots of fruits and leaves, but also eating other

vegetables as well(some of them cooked or steamed). Whole grains and

legumes, along with the nuts and seeds too.(after all, if I am going

to give up animal products, I have got to have something a little

more substantial than just leaves and fruits) I am also aquiring a

taste for olive oil and using it as well.

I have also increased my excersising and getting more variety in that

area too. So I am feeling pretty darn good right now.

Short term lots of fruits and leaves was great for me. Gave me a

jump start on a healthier way of eating. But now my body is telling

me that it is time for me to move on and get more variety in my diet.

Belinda

> Jumping into the middle of this conversation, I just wanted

> to point out it's probably not all that accurate to use the

> Chinese diet as confirmation of the 811rv diet of Doug Graham.

> The former, though reaching similar macronutrient ratios, does

> so in a vastly different way than 811 (let alone the rv part).

> The vast majority of the carbohydrates in the Chinese diet

> studied by Dr. Campbell come from rice/legumes not raw fruits.

>

> -Erin

> http://www.dogmafreeraw.com

>

> rawfood , The Raw Retreat <therawretreat@>

> wrote:

> >

> > When you say 811 - do you specifically mean Doug Graham's program?

> >

> > Where did you get these beliefs that they will have problems?

> >

> > Here's what I find interesting...

> >

> > The China Study points to a diet of 80-10-10 as being the

> healthiest

> > - allowing the body to rebuild and heal. They certainly didn't

use

> > and info from NH to prejudice their results.

> >

> > Hippocrates Health Institute says that a diet of 80-10-10 is the

> > healthiest - allows the body to rebuild and heal.

> >

> > The NH Doug Graham group says that a diet of 80-10-10 is the

> > healthiest - allows the body to rebuild and heal.

> >

> > All from completely different frames of reference. All with

> different

> > dietary mixes of whole plant-based foods.

> >

> > I can see that you might question the long term effect of Doug

> > Graham's approach. It's about 20 years old.

> > And maybe Hippocrates, it's about 50 years old.

> > How many more hundreds (maybe thousands) of years would you like

> > people in China to eat like this to begin to " believe " that it

> might

> > have some validity?

> >

> > Don't you find it odd (interesting) that they all agree on the

> carb/

> > fat/protein proportions?

> >

> > Isn't it also interesting that doctors using a plant-based diet

> and

> > are being successful with cancer and heart disease are using an

> > 80-10-10 program?

> >

> > Be well!

> >

> > .wyn

> > The Raw Retreat

> > http://TheRawRetreat.com

> > o) 888.EAT.RAW4LIFE

> > f) 877.236.6999

> >

July 24, 2007

You can google it. Even Rhio, author and raw speaker, had major deficiencies on

it.

Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on TV.

July 25, 2007

The China Study mentions that excess protein is to blame (over 10%)

for degenerative dis-ease, especially animal protein. What seems to

be more important is what is left out of the diet. There is a brief

statement about raw saying something to the effect that raw fruits and

vegetables are the best foods for the body. I've heard rumors that

Dr. Campbell is planning to research the benefits of raw food. Time

will tell.

Janet

rawfood , " Erin " <truepatriot wrote:

Jumping into the middle of this conversation, I just wanted to point

out it's probably not all that accurate to use the Chinese diet as

confirmation of the 811rv diet of Doug Graham.

The former, though reaching similar macronutrient ratios, does so in a

vastly different way than 811 (let alone the rv part).

The vast majority of the carbohydrates in the Chinese diet studied by

Dr. Campbell come from rice/legumes not raw fruits.

-Erin http://www.dogmafreeraw.com

rawfood , The Raw Retreat <therawretreat@> wrote:

When you say 811 - do you specifically mean Doug Graham's program?

Where did you get these beliefs that they will have problems?

Here's what I find interesting...

The China Study points to a diet of 80-10-10 as being the healthiest

- allowing the body to rebuild and heal. They certainly didn't use

and info from NH to prejudice their results.

Hippocrates Health Institute says that a diet of 80-10-10 is the

healthiest - allows the body to rebuild and heal.

The NH Doug Graham group says that a diet of 80-10-10 is the

healthiest - allows the body to rebuild and heal.

All from completely different frames of reference. All with different

dietary mixes of whole plant-based foods.

I can see that you might question the long term effect of Doug

Graham's approach. It's about 20 years old.

And maybe Hippocrates, it's about 50 years old.

How many more hundreds (maybe thousands) of years would you like

people in China to eat like this to begin to " believe " that it might

have some validity?

Don't you find it odd (interesting) that they all agree on the carb/

fat/protein proportions?

Isn't it also interesting that doctors using a plant-based diet and

are being successful with cancer and heart disease are using an

80-10-10 program?

Be well!

..wyn The Raw Retreat http://TheRawRetreat.com o) 888.EAT.RAW4LIFE f)

877.236.6999 [Non-text portions of this

July 25, 2007

I've read Rhio and Fred Bisci, etc.

There are experts everywhere with opinions...

One point I was trying to make - unsuccessfully it seems - was that

long term successful healing diets seem to have the same 80-10-10

ratios.

And, what seems to be more important is what you DON'T eat, than what

you do eat.

From there, my conclusion is to find what works for you. I'm not on

a raw food crusade. I don't push people to go home from our retreat

and be 100% raw, no matter what. They have to do what they can

sustain over time and have the tool to continually improve their diet

and health. Tools to understand the symptoms their having as symptoms

and not as " just what happens as you age " or " seems to happen to

everyone " ...

Personally, my diet is currently a blend of Hippocrates and Graham.

Lots of fruit, lots of greens and lots of sprouts. I also do wheat

grass juice pretty regularly.

When I ran into this group and started to check my diet with

nutridiary, I was at about 20-25% fat. I'm feeling much better now

that it's down around 10%.

Be well.

..wyn

The Raw Retreat

http://TheRawRetreat.com

o) 888.EAT.RAW4LIFE

f) 877.236.6999

July 25, 2007

Honestly, NOBODY knows the long term effects of 8/1/1. NOBODY. Or even just 100%

raw vegan. There is no data. So, anyone saying it's there or promising one thing

or the other is just trying to sell you something....

Get the free toolbar and rest assured with the added security of spyware

protection.

July 25, 2007

On Wednesday 25 July 2007 15:53, School Of Rawk wrote:

> Honestly, NOBODY knows the long term effects of 8/1/1. NOBODY. Or even just

> 100% raw vegan. There is no data. So, anyone saying it's there or promising

> one thing or the other is just trying to sell you something....

UT doesn't have this problem.

neal.

July 25, 2007

Yes Erica, the excerpt below is all correct. Nice to see you coming on board

a bit.

Doug made this quite clear, for example, during the teleconference we

recorded last December, t coincide with release of his book, The 80/10/10

Diet. He makes it quite clear that many teach some variant of 80/10/10, he

is just adding fresh, whole, ripe, raw, organic to the specification. And it

makes all the difference in the world.

FYI, the link to that teleconference is http://snipurl.com/80_10_10_diet.

Best,

Elchanan

_____

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

The Raw Retreat

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:48 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re:Long Term 811 effects

One point I was trying to make - unsuccessfully it seems - was that long

term successful healing diets seem to have the same 80-10-10 ratios. And,

what seems to be more important is what you DON'T eat, than what you do eat.

July 25, 2007

On Wednesday 25 July 2007 19:52, neal wrote:

> On Wednesday 25 July 2007 15:53, School Of Rawk wrote:

> > Honestly, NOBODY knows the long term effects of 8/1/1. NOBODY. Or even

> > just 100% raw vegan. There is no data. So, anyone saying it's there or

> > promising one thing or the other is just trying to sell you something....

>

> UT doesn't have this problem.

>

> neal.

This is a serious question. Has no one ever asked for urine to be considered

as a raw food?

It is produced organically.

It is raw and not processed in any way.

It is extremely nutritious and perfectly suited to one's own body.

It suffers the same problem with possible infection of pharma products

although that is directly under the discretion of the individual

producer/consumer.

There is no cruelty involved in its harvesting, in fact no life is taken,

animal or vegetable.

Not forgetting its origins are Ayurvedic Medicine and is known to have been

practised at least 4000 years ago.

any comments?

neal.

July 25, 2007

Oh good lord, Erica. The amount of research documenting damage from eating

both excess fat and excess protein is beyond voluminous.

That we are designed to consume no more than 5-10% of our caloric intake

from each of these sources is almost unchallengeable. The only major sources

that contradict this are the USDA and the various for-profit and " nonprofit "

corporations that make a fortune selling packaged foods and drugs and/or

raising donations to fund " research " on various " diseases " . (E.g., heart

assn, diabetes assn, etc.). And if one eats the diet they all recommend, one

becomes very sick and dies painfully and young.

Elchanan

_____

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

School Of Rawk

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:53 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re: Long Term 811 effects

Honestly, NOBODY knows the long term effects of 8/1/1. NOBODY. Or even just

100% raw vegan. There is no data. So, anyone saying it's there or promising

one thing or the other is just trying to sell you something....

July 25, 2007

Erica,

I agree with you.

There is no conclusive data

And it is simply not true that some people who eat diets containing

eggs & meat will die young-I am not advocating that-it just depends on

the individual

I just finished reading this

http://tinyurl.com/2tudqm

which made quite a bit of sense

and I have read this-which is interesting reading for me-

http://www.cholesterol-and-health.com/China-Study.html

I think we need to really think not take spritual leaps about

something as basic as food.

We need to follow what we need & no I don't mean cravings that is just

following other people trying to sell something

or bizaare like wiley Brooks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiley_Brooks

Em

rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

>

> Oh good lord, Erica. The amount of research documenting damage from

eating

> both excess fat and excess protein is beyond voluminous.

>

> That we are designed to consume no more than 5-10% of our caloric intake

> from each of these sources is almost unchallengeable. The only major

sources

> that contradict this are the USDA and the various for-profit and

" nonprofit "

> corporations that make a fortune selling packaged foods and drugs and/or

> raising donations to fund " research " on various " diseases " . (E.g., heart

> assn, diabetes assn, etc.). And if one eats the diet they all

recommend, one

> becomes very sick and dies painfully and young.

>

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> rawfood [rawfood ] On

Behalf Of

> School Of Rawk

> Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:53 AM

> rawfood

> [Raw Food] Re: Long Term 811 effects

>

> Honestly, NOBODY knows the long term effects of 8/1/1. NOBODY. Or

even just

> 100% raw vegan. There is no data. So, anyone saying it's there or

promising

> one thing or the other is just trying to sell you something....

>

July 25, 2007

Neal,

Urine is NOT a food by any stretch of the imagination.

Belinda

> On Wednesday 25 July 2007 19:52, neal wrote:

> > On Wednesday 25 July 2007 15:53, School Of Rawk wrote:

> > > Honestly, NOBODY knows the long term effects of 8/1/1. NOBODY.

Or even

> > > just 100% raw vegan. There is no data. So, anyone saying it's

there or

> > > promising one thing or the other is just trying to sell you

something....

> >

> > UT doesn't have this problem.

> >

> > neal.

>

> This is a serious question. Has no one ever asked for urine to be

considered

> as a raw food?

>

> It is produced organically.

>

> It is raw and not processed in any way.

>

> It is extremely nutritious and perfectly suited to one's own body.

>

> It suffers the same problem with possible infection of pharma

products

> although that is directly under the discretion of the individual

> producer/consumer.

>

> There is no cruelty involved in its harvesting, in fact no life is

taken,

> animal or vegetable.

>

> Not forgetting its origins are Ayurvedic Medicine and is known to

have been

> practised at least 4000 years ago.

>

> any comments?

>

> neal.

>

July 26, 2007

Elchanan,

I believe that was wyn who made the comment, not Erica. Wyn has offered many

insightful posts recently

~Sarah

Elchanan <Elchanan wrote:

Yes Erica, the excerpt below is all correct. Nice to see you coming on

board

a bit.

Doug made this quite clear, for example, during the teleconference we

recorded last December, t coincide with release of his book, The 80/10/10

Diet. He makes it quite clear that many teach some variant of 80/10/10, he

is just adding fresh, whole, ripe, raw, organic to the specification. And it

makes all the difference in the world.

FYI, the link to that teleconference is http://snipurl.com/80_10_10_diet.

Best,

Elchanan

_____

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

The Raw Retreat

Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:48 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re:Long Term 811 effects

One point I was trying to make - unsuccessfully it seems - was that long

term successful healing diets seem to have the same 80-10-10 ratios. And,

what seems to be more important is what you DON'T eat, than what you do eat.

July 26, 2007

That would be great if Dr. Campbell were to extend his research.

I also heard similarly about Dr. Fuhrman <http://eat2live.notlong.com>

Regarding the animal protein, no argument here! I was just pointing

out the source of the carbs are quite different between the Chinese

diet studied in that book and the fruits of 80/10/10. It *may*

be correct to say what is left out is more important, but it is

still something of a leap to take the evidence of The China Study

and extrapolate it to The 80/10/10 Diet.

-Erin

http://www.dogmafreeraw.com

http://www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

rawfood , " Janet FitzGerald " <waxplanet

wrote:

>

> The China Study mentions that excess protein is to blame (over 10%)

> for degenerative dis-ease, especially animal protein. What seems to

> be more important is what is left out of the diet. There is a brief

> statement about raw saying something to the effect that raw fruits and

> vegetables are the best foods for the body. I've heard rumors that

> Dr. Campbell is planning to research the benefits of raw food. Time

> will tell.

>

> Janet

July 26, 2007

Elchanan,

That was Raw Retreat (.wyn) below, not School of Rawk (Erica).

-Erin

http://www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

>

> Yes Erica, the excerpt below is all correct. Nice to see you coming

on board

> a bit.

>

> Doug made this quite clear, for example, during the teleconference

we

> recorded last December, t coincide with release of his book, The

80/10/10

> Diet. He makes it quite clear that many teach some variant of

80/10/10, he

> is just adding fresh, whole, ripe, raw, organic to the

specification. And it

> makes all the difference in the world.

>

> FYI, the link to that teleconference is

http://snipurl.com/80_10_10_diet.

>

> Best,

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> rawfood [rawfood ] On

Behalf Of

> The Raw Retreat

> Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:48 AM

> rawfood

> [Raw Food] Re:Long Term 811 effects

>

> One point I was trying to make - unsuccessfully it seems - was that

long

> term successful healing diets seem to have the same 80-10-10

ratios. And,

> what seems to be more important is what you DON'T eat, than what

you do eat.

>

July 26, 2007

Oh, in that case:

1. Sorry, Erica, for mistaking you for Wyn.

2. Yaay, Wyn, for another great post!

Rest of content remains unchanged.

Best,

Elchanan

_____

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Erin

Thursday, July 26, 2007 6:28 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re:Long Term 811 effects

Elchanan,

That was Raw Retreat (.wyn) below, not School of Rawk (Erica).

-Erin http://www.zenpawn.com/vegblog

rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

Yes Erica, the excerpt below is all correct. Nice to see you coming on

board a bit.

Doug made this quite clear, for example, during the teleconference we

recorded last December, t coincide with release of his book, The

80/10/10 Diet. He makes it quite clear that many teach some variant of

80/10/10, he is just adding fresh, whole, ripe, raw, organic to the

specification. And it makes all the difference in the world.

FYI, the link to that teleconference is http://snipurl.com/80_10_10_diet.

Best, Elchanan

July 26, 2007

Elchanan,

There are no real long-term studies on populations who have been exclusively

raw-vegan, regardless of what books SAY is probably right. And I personally know

people who have had severe health problems eating only 5 - 8% fat, so it is NOT

unchallengeable, sorry. Please quote the major studies on large cross-sections

of long-term raw foodists that you are referring to in this . I'm

sure others are interested in this information as well. We're waiting....

Erica

Need a vacation? Get great deals to amazing places on Travel.

July 26, 2007

What is long term? Do we know the long term effects of eating

McDonalds? We do know the effects of eating it for 30 days from the

movie, " Supersize Me " .

We, as a people, have been eating junk for a short time period, and

cooked for a rather long time. It's hard to have perspective when one

is in the fish bowl. Since we have so few healthy specimens to study,

and we predominantly study dis-eased individuals, we know little about

what is natural and good. This too, can change.

Janet

rawfood , School Of Rawk <schoolofrawk wrote:

Honestly, NOBODY knows the long term effects of 8/1/1. NOBODY. Or

even just 100% raw vegan. There is no data. So, anyone saying it's

there or promising one thing or the other is just trying to sell you

something....

July 26, 2007

The body has eliminated it for a reason and it is not palatable (at

least, not to me). I'm going to trust that my body knows why it can't

use it.

Janet

rawfood , neal <kneel.pardoe wrote:

On Wednesday 25 July 2007 19:52, neal wrote:

On Wednesday 25 July 2007 15:53, School Of Rawk wrote:

Honestly, NOBODY knows the long term effects of 8/1/1. NOBODY. Or

even just 100% raw vegan. There is no data. So, anyone saying it's

there or promising one thing or the other is just trying to sell you

something....

UT doesn't have this problem.

neal.

This is a serious question. Has no one ever asked for urine to be

considered as a raw food?

It is produced organically.

It is raw and not processed in any way.

It is extremely nutritious and perfectly suited to one's own body.

It suffers the same problem with possible infection of pharma products

although that is directly under the discretion of the individual

producer/consumer.

There is no cruelty involved in its harvesting, in fact no life is

taken, animal or vegetable.

Not forgetting its origins are Ayurvedic Medicine and is known to have

been practised at least 4000 years ago.

any comments?

neal.

July 27, 2007

UT is ridiculously healing and beneficial for those who will try it. The way I

look at it, I honestly can't think of doing it internally at this point.

Externally, if I had to, I would venture. But I don't have to and I'm not going

to lie, I'm very comfortable with that. ;-) My friend was really ill and

indicated she had tried it (others since then have used it successfully). When I

made a face when this friend told me, she basically told me that when you are

told you are dying, etc, it's amazing what you'll do. I believe her exact words

had to do with eating dogs**t if it is supposed to help. (She was having success

following a David Wolfe protocol, too, but it was still an aggressive cancer).

It made me see how judgemental it is to put it down, at least until we walk in

another's shoes. I mean, there ARE many success stories and it's been around

FOREVER. I mean, UT is even in the bible. ;-) So, thank you for bringing this

up, Neal. ~Erica

Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.

Visit the Auto Green Center.

July 27, 2007

But it still would not be considered a food. And used for healing

purposes.

By the way, where is it in the Bible?

Belinda

> UT is ridiculously healing and beneficial for those who will try

it. The way I look at it, I honestly can't think of doing it

internally at this point. Externally, if I had to, I would venture.

But I don't have to and I'm not going to lie, I'm very comfortable

with that. ;-) My friend was really ill and indicated she had tried

it (others since then have used it successfully). When I made a face

when this friend told me, she basically told me that when you are

told you are dying, etc, it's amazing what you'll do. I believe her

exact words had to do with eating dogs**t if it is supposed to help.

(She was having success following a David Wolfe protocol, too, but it

was still an aggressive cancer). It made me see how judgemental it is

to put it down, at least until we walk in another's shoes. I mean,

there ARE many success stories and it's been around FOREVER. I mean,

UT is even in the bible. ;-) So, thank you for bringing this up,

Neal. ~Erica

>

> Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative

vehicles.

> Visit the Auto Green Center.

>

July 27, 2007

On Friday 27 July 2007 16:44, Belinda wrote:

> By the way, where is it in the Bible?

As I have not read the Bible to see what references there may be, here are

references posted by another which I cannot confirm.

Out of his belly will flow rivers of living water. " - John 7:37,38.

" Do not ye yet understand that what entereth into the mouth,

goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught? " - Matthew

15:17.

neal.

July 27, 2007

Did the UT help her?