SPECIAL POST: Congressman Ron Paul

July 27, 2007

Hi everyone,

I do not typically address topics related to liberty in this group dedicated

to nutrition and healthful living. However, right now a very courageous man,

a congressional representative from Texas, is trying to win the Republican

nomination for President of the United States. And for the first time

perhaps since the time of President Andrew Jackson (who served in that

office between 1829-1837), we have a candidate who genuinely seems to

comprehend ... and to stand for ... what America's founders sought to

create.

This piece is written by Ron Paul himself, following an interview during

which he " told the truth " . Here he goes much farther. Regardless of your

affiliations, beliefs, etc., I encourage you at least to read this piece.

Then, if you wish to support this man, I invite you to do so. I intend to

send the first political donation I've sent to anyone for anything in many,

many years.

Best to all,

Elchanan

_____

Nolan Anderson lou & dr. bob at lake tahoe Monday, June 25,

2007 7:24 PM Dr. Ron Paul

Lou and Dr. Bob:

Here is an article I received from an acquaintance in the Netherlands. I

have never seen this. Have you seen it?

Best regards,

Nolan

____________

CONGRESSMAN TOO TRUTHFUL

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

AMERICA'S FRIEND: THE HONORABLE CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL

THE OTHER DAY, I MADE A HUGE " GAFFE " ON NATIONAL TV: I TOLD THE TRUTH ABOUT

THE CRIMES OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

As you can imagine, the ceiling fell in, and a couple of walls too.

Congressmen are supposed to support the government, I was told. Oh, it's

okay to criticize around edges, but there are certain subjects a member of

the House of Representatives is not supposed to bring up. But I touched the

real " third rail " of American politics, and the sparks sure flew.

I was interviewed on C-SPAN's morning " Washington Journal, " and I used the

opportunity, as I do all such media appearances, to point out how many of

our liberties have been stolen by the federal government.* We must take them

back. The Constitution, after all, has a very limited role for Washington,

D.C.

If we stuck to the Constitution as written, we would have: no federal

meddling in our schools; no Federal Reserve;* no U. S. membership in the

U.N.; no gun control; and no foreign aid. We would have no welfare for big

corporations, or the " poor " ; No American troops in 100 foreign countries; no

Nafta, GATT, or " fast-track " ; no arrogant federal judges usurping states

rights; no attacks on private property; and no income tax. We can get rid

of most of the cabinet departments, most of the agencies, and most of the

budget. The government would be small, frugal, and limited.

That system is called Liberty. It's what the Founding Fathers gave us.

Under liberty, we built the greatest, freest, most prosperous, most decent

country on earth. (? - HR) It's no coincidence that the monstrous growth

of the federal government has been accompanied by a sickening decline in

living standards and moral standards. The feds want us to be hamsters on a

tread mill working hard, all day long, to pay high taxes, but otherwise

entirely docile and controlled. The huge, expensive, and out-of control

leviathan that we call the federal government wants to run every single

aspect of our lives.

WELL, I'M SORRY, BUT THAT'S NOT AMERICA. IT'S NOT WHAT THE FOUNDERS GAVE

US.

IT'S NOT THE COUNTRY YOU BELIEVE IN. IT'S NOT THE COUNTRY I BELIEVE IN.

So, on that TV interview, I emphasized not only the attacks on our property,

but also the decline of our civil liberties, at the hands of the federal

police. There's not supposed to be any federal police, according to the

Constitution.

Then I really went over the line. I talked about the Waco massacre. Bill

Clinton and Janet Reno claimed those 81 church members including 19

children, burned down their own Church, killed themselves, and good

riddance. So they put a few survivors on trial, and threw them in prison

for 40 years.

We're not supposed to remember that the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and

Firearms - talk about an unconstitutional agency - rather than arrest David

Koresh on his regular morning jog, called in the TV stations for a big

publicity bonanza, and sent a swat team in black masks and black uniforms to

break down his front door, guns blazing. They also sent in a helicopter gun

ship, to shoot the roof of a church full of innocents.

The Branch Davidians resisted, and after a heartless siege of almost two

months, and after cutting off food, water, electricity, and playing horrible

rock and roll through huge speakers 24 hours a day, the Feds sent in tanks

to crush the walls of the church, and inject poisonous CS gas.*

NOW, CS GAS IS BANNED AND UNDER THE PARIS CONVENTION ON CHEMICAL WARFARE.

THE U.S. COULD NOT USE IT IN WAR. BUT IT COULD AND DID USE IT AGAINST

AMERICAN CIVILIANS.

After the tanks did their work on the church, the place burst into flames,

and all 81 people - men, women, children, and babies - were incinerated in a

screaming horror. Did some feds set the fire? Did the flammable CS gas

ignite, since without electricity, the parishioners were using lanterns?

Did a tank knock over a lantern, striking one of the bales of hay being used

against the thin walls as a defense against bullets? Or did the Davidians,

as Clinton and Reno claim, kill themselves?

A new documentary- 'Waco: Rules of Engagement' - may show, throughout FLIR

infrared photography, FBI snipers killing the Davidians by shooting through

the back of the church, where no media cameras were allowed. This film won

a prize at the Sundance Film Festival. It was made by people who took

government's side, until they investigated.

Whatever the truth, there's no question that an irresponsible federal

government has innocent blood on its hands, and not only from Waco. And the

refusal of corrupt perverse liberals to admit it, means nothing.

In my interview, in answer to a caller's question, I pointed out Waco, and

the federal murders at Ruby Ridge'- especially the FBI snipers who shot and

blast apart the head of the young mother holding her baby, that caused many

Americans to live in fear of federal power. Then uttered the sentiment that

caused the media hysteria: I said that a lot of Americans fear that they too

might be attacked by federal swat teams for exercising their constitutional

rights, or merely for wanting to be left alone. - [FPF/HR: Using gas on

North Americans - Url.: <http://www.mcsm.org/waco11.html>

http://www.mcsm.org/waco11.html]

WHOA! YOU'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT!

For days, in an all-out assault, I was attacked by Democrats, unions, big

business, establishment Republicans, and of course the media, in Washington

in my home state of Texas. Newspapers foamed at the mouth, calling me a

" right-wing extremist " . (Say, isn't that what George III called Thomas

Jefferson?)

I was even blamed for the Oklahoma City bombing! And by the way, I don't

believe we've gotten the full truth on that either. All my many opponents

were outraged that a congressman would criticize big government. " If you

don't like Washington, resign! " said a typical big-city newspaper editorial.

But the media, as usual, were all wet. (Do they ever get anything right?)

The average Congressman may go to Washington to wallow in power, and line

his pockets with a big lobbying job for a special interest (so he can get

keep ripping-off the taxpayers). But that's not why I'm in Congress. It's

not why I left my medical practice as a physician. It's not why I put up

with all of the abuse. It's not why I refuse a plush Congressional pension.

I'LL NOT LET THE CROOKS AND CLOWNS AND CRIMINALS HAVE THEIR WAY

I'm in this fight for reason. I want to hand on to my children and

grandchildren, and to you in your family, a great and free America, an

America true to her Constitution, an America worthy of her history. I'll

not let the crooks and clowns and criminals have their way. I'm in Congress

to represent the ideas of Liberty, the ideas that you and I share, for the

people of my district, for the people of Texas, for the people of America.

That's why I'm working to stop federal abuses, and to cut the government:

its taxes, its bureaucrats, its paramilitary police, its spending, its

meddling overseas, and every single unconstitutional action it takes. And

not with a pair of nail scissors, but with a hammer and chisel. Won't you

help me do this work?

Not much of the federal leviathan would be left, if I had my way. But you'd

be able to keep the money you earn, your privacy would be secure, your

dollar would be sound, your local school would be tops, and your kids

wouldn't be sent off to some useless or vicious foreign war to fight for the

U.N.. But Jefferson and the other Founders would recognize our government,

and our descendants would bless us. By the way, when I say cut taxes, I

don't mean fiddle with the code. I mean abolish the income tax and the IRS,

and replace them with nothing.

Recently, I asked a famous Republican Committee Chairman--who's always

talking about getting rid of the IRS--why engineered a secret $580 million

raise for the tax collectors. " They need for their computers, " this guy

told me. So the IRS can't extract enough from us as it is! The National

Taxpayers Unions says I have the highest pro-taxpayer rating in

Congressional history, that I am the top " Taxpayer's Best Friend " . You know

I won't play the Capitol Hill games with the Capitol Hill gang, denouncing

the IRS while giving the Gestapo more of your money. Or figuring out some

other federal tax for them to squeeze out of you. I also want to abolish

the Federal Reserve, and send Alan Greenspan out to get a job.

The value of our dollar in the level of our interest rates are not suppose

to be manipulated by a few members of the power elite meeting secretly in a

marble palace. The Federal Reserve is unconstitutional, pure and simple.

The only constitutional money is gold and silver, not notes redeemable in

them. Not fed funny money. Without the Federal Reserve, our money could

not be inflated at the behest of big government or big banks. Your income

in savings would not lose their value. Just as important, we wouldn't have

this endless string of booms and busts, recessions and depressions, with

each bust getting worse.

THEY AREN'T NATURAL TO THE FREE MARKET; THERE CAUSED BY THE SCHEMERS AT THE

FED.

President Andrew Jackson called the 19th centuries Fed " The Monster "

because it was a vehicle for inflation and all sorts of special-interest

corruption. Let me tell you, things haven't changed a bit. I also work to

save our schools from D.C. interference. Thanks to the feds, new

curriculums not only smear the Founders as " racist, slave owning elitists, "

they seek to dumb down all our students so they will all be equal.

" Look-say " reading and the abolition of phonics has the same purpose, and so

does the new " fuzzy " math, in which there at no right and no wrong answers.

That must be what they use in the U.S. Treasury! It's certainly what they

use in the U.S. Congress.

But ever since the beginning of federal aid to education and accelerating

with the establishment of the rotten Department of Education, SAT scores

have been dropping. Schools, with few exceptions, are getting worse every

year. To save our kids, we must get the sticky fingers of the feds off our

local schools, and let parents rule. That's what the Constitution says, and

the Bible too.

AND THEN THERE'S MY LEAST FAVORITE TOPIC, THE U.N.. WORLD GOVERNMENT IS

OBVIOUSLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

It undermines our country sovereignty in the worst way possible. That's why

I want us out of the U.N., and the U.N. itself taking a hike. After all,

the U.N. is socialist and corrupt (many votes can be bought with a " blond

and a case of Scotch " one U.N. ambassador once said). It costs many

billions, and it puts our soldiers in U.N. uniforms under foreign

commanders, and sends them off to unconstitutional, undeclared wars. When

Michael New, one of the finest young men I've ever met, objected to wearing

U.N. blue, he was kicked out of the American Army. What an outrage! Not

one dime for the U.N., and not one American soldier! Not Haiti, not in

Bosnia, not in Somalia, not in Rwanda. I know its radical, but how about

devoting American military efforts to defending America, and only America?

Such ideas, said one newspaper reporter, make me a maverick, who will never

go far because he won't go along to get along. Darn right! What does " go

far " mean? Get a big government job? To heck with that. And I won't sell

my vote for pork either. When I walked through the U.S. Capitol this

morning, I got angry. The building is filled with statues and paintings of

Jefferson, Madison, and the other Founders. Those great men sacrificed

everything to give us a free country, and a Constitution to keep it that

way. When I was first elected, I placed my hand on the Bible and swore an

oath to uphold the Constitution. That's exactly what I'm fighting for.

Such ideas drive the liberals crazy. That's why I badly need your help.

I've been targeted nationally for defeat. The Democrats, the AFL-CIO, the

teachers union, big business PACs, the trial lawyers, the big bankers, the

foreign aid lobbyists, the big media, and the establishment Republicans want

to dance on my political grave. The Fed, the Education Department, in the

U.N. are anxious to join in. They can't stand even one person telling the

truth. And they're terrified when that truth gains the people support.

Right now, four well funded Democrats are competing to try to beat me, and

Republican is rumored to have been offered money at a secret meeting in

Mexico(!) if he would try to knock me off in a primary. Won't you help me

stay up here to fight? Frankly I'm in trouble if you don't. My Texas

district has 22,000 square miles (not a misprint). I've got to travel all

over it, set up small offices to be manned by volunteers, advertise, pay

phone bills, and distribute video and audio tape to the people to get around

the big media lies. As I know from my last election, which I won by the

skin of my teeth, the media will carry any smear, repeat any libel, throw

any piece of mud, no matter how untrue.

IN FACT, THE LESS TRUE, THE MORE THEY LIKE IT.

They are determined to silence me. But you can help me overcome all this.

Together, we can beat the bad guys arrayed against our country and our

freedom. We can support the Constitution. We can win. Your generous

contributions of $25 or $50 would be great. $100, $250 , or even $500 or

$1000 would be magnificent. Of course, any amount would help, and in

return, I will keep you up-to-date on this fight as a member of my " kitchen

cabinet " . What great men founded this country! What great people have

carried on their fight!

That fight is not lost, not if you will join in. Washington, D.C. is a

loser, but among the people, our ideas are gaining every single day.

Keep the tide turning in our direction. Please make your most generous

contribution. Join this fight for the Constitution, and stop those who want

to rip it up, and throw it in the Potomac.

Together, we can join the Founders fight.

Together we can make this history.

Sincerely,

Ron Paul

U.S. Congressman

203 Canon, Washington D.C. 20515

-0-

FPF-RELATED:

* RON PAUL'S WEB SITE - Url.:

<http://ronpaul2008.typepad.com/ron_paul_2008/2007/week11/index.html>

http://ronpaul2008.typepad.com/ron_paul_2008/2007/week11/index.html

* FPF ON THE WACO DISASTER - The new American Chief of Staff Peter J.

Schoomaker is a famous man: He was one of the first USA Americans to use gas

on Americans!- Url.:

<http://japan.indymedia.org/newswire/display/456/index.php>

http://japan.indymedia.org/newswire/display/456/index.php

* US AMERICANS IN AMERICA KILLING AMERICANS - by Eric Margolis -

Contributing Foreign Editor to The Toronto Sun - Url.:

<http://www.apfn.net/Messageboard/> www.apfn.net/Messageboard/

10-09-05/discussion.cgi.85.html

* ONE OF THE BIGGEST SCAMS EVER - AND MOST 'BANKING PEOPLE' KNOW IT BUT SHUT

UP! - " The Federal Reserve System is neither 'federal' nor 'reserve', but

is basically a federally chartered, private banking consortium. " - Url.:

<http://tinyurl.com/53h7p> http://tinyurl.com/53h7p

* FPF-COPYRIGHT NOTICE - In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107

- any copyrighted work in this message is distributed by the Foreign Press

Foundation under fair use, without profit or payment, to those who have

expressed a prior interest in receiving the information. Url.:

<http://liimirror.warwick.ac.uk/uscode/17/107.html>

http://liimirror.warwick.ac.uk/uscode/17/107.html

FOREIGN PRESS FOUNDATION <http://tinyurl.com/yl6l3c>

http://tinyurl.com/yl6l3c Editor: Henk Ruyssenaars

<http://tinyurl.com/gpr4j> http://tinyurl.com/gpr4j The Netherlands

<fpf fpf

----------

---- Cam <RonPaul2008 >

RonPaul2008 Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:04 AM Subject:

[RonPaul2008] Ron Paul " cannot win " more than most?

Someone posted on a news article, complaining about how often people say

" Ron Paul cannot win " , so I did a little research and found some surprising

results.

I did these searches with Google at approx. 12:30 pm Est. 7/26/2007. Seems

the more popular you are, the more you " cannot win " .

" Hillary Clinton cannot win " 847 results. " Rudy Giuliani cannot win " 621

results. " Ron Paul cannot win " 395 results. " John McCain cannot win " 331

results. " Barack Obama cannot win " 294 results. " Mitt Romney cannot win " 8

results. " Fred Thompson cannot win " 8 results. " John Edwards cannot win " 6

results. " Dennis Kucinich cannot win " 5 results. " Tommy Thompson cannot win "

4 results. " Tom Tancredo cannot win " 4 results. " Mike Huckabee cannot win " 3

results. " Joe Biden cannot win " 2 results. " Sam Brownback cannot win " 1

result. " Mike Gravel cannot win " 1 result. " Bill Richardson cannot win " 0

result. " Chris Dodd cannot win " 0 result.

Is Bill Richardson or Chris Dodd our next President? They are the two who

nobody thinks " cannot win " , according to this search. Conversely, Clinton,

Obama, McCain, Paul, and Obama obviously have no chance at being President.

July 27, 2007

Did you guys know that the only vegan running for president is Dennis

Kucinich? He's also the only one who wants a universal health care

system--free

health care for everyone.

Judy

In a message dated 7/27/07 2:26:49 PM, emusedmary writes:

> Elchanan,

> I'm glad you posted this.

> My son actually(who is 15 and upset that he can't vote yet) had been

> researching ALL the candidates and very much likes Ron Paul.

> I'd like to fight for him too-I've gotten very apathetic because of

> the 2 party system...but its time for me to change that even if its

> just to make my son proud of me.

> It's too defeatist to stay silent...so thanks for the the info and the

> post.

> Em

>

> rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

> >

> > Hi everyone,

> >

> > I do not typically address topics related to liberty in this group

> dedicated

> > to nutrition and healthful living. However, right now a very

> courageous man,

> > a congressional representative from Texas, is trying to win the

> Republican

> > nomination for President of the United States. And for the first time

> > perhaps since the time of President Andrew Jackson (who served in that

> > office between 1829-1837), we have a candidate who genuinely seems to

> > comprehend ... and to stand for ... what America's founders sought to

> > create.

> >

> > This piece is written by Ron Paul himself, following an interview during

> > which he " told the truth " . Here he goes much farther. Regardless of your

> > affiliations, beliefs, etc., I encourage you at least to read this

> piece.

> > Then, if you wish to support this man, I invite you to do so. I

> intend to

> > send the first political donation I've sent to anyone for anything

> in many,

> > many years.

> >

> > Best to all,

> > Elchanan

> > _____

> >

> > Nolan Anderson lou & dr. bob at lake tahoe Monday,

> June 25,

> > 2007 7:24 PM Dr. Ron Paul

> >

> > Lou and Dr. Bob:

> >

> > Here is an article I received from an acquaintance in the

> Netherlands. I

> > have never seen this. Have you seen it?

> >

> > Best regards,

> >

> > Nolan

> > ____________

> > CONGRESSMAN TOO TRUTHFUL

> >

> > by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

> >

> > AMERICA'S FRIEND: THE HONORABLE CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL

> >

> > THE OTHER DAY, I MADE A HUGE " GAFFE " ON NATIONAL TV: I TOLD THE

> TRUTH ABOUT

> > THE CRIMES OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

> >

> > As you can imagine, the ceiling fell in, and a couple of walls too.

> > Congressmen are supposed to support the government, I was told. Oh,

> it's

> > okay to criticize around edges, but there are certain subjects a

> member of

> > the House of Representatives is not supposed to bring up. But I

> touched the

> > real " third rail " of American politics, and the sparks sure flew.

> >

> > I was interviewed on C-SPAN's morning " Washington Journal, " and I

> used the

> > opportunity, as I do all such media appearances, to point out how

> many of

> > our liberties have been stolen by the federal government.* We must

> take them

> > back. The Constitution, after all, has a very limited role for

> Washington,

> > D.C.

> >

> > If we stuck to the Constitution as written, we would have: no federal

> > meddling in our schools; no Federal Reserve;* no U. S. membership

> in the

>

July 27, 2007

From the one percent of the richest people.

> sounds good, but where would the money to support the free health care

> come from? It isn't going to be free for someone or groups of someones.

>

> Belinda

>

> > Did you guys know that the only vegan running for president is Dennis

> > Kucinich? He's also the only one who wants a universal health care

> system--free

> > health care for everyone.

> >

> > Judy

> >

>

July 27, 2007

Health insurance costs a lot more

In a message dated 7/27/07 5:54:24 PM, MistyBlueTN writes:

> LOL, that is what I was thinking. I am tax poor as it is. So I am

> not for that one.

>

> Belinda

>

> > It isn't going to be free for anyone. The costs will simply

> be " funded " by

> > some roundabout means, such as a tax, or a tax, or a tax.

> > Elchanan

> >

> > _____

> >

> > rawfood [rawfood ] On

> Behalf Of

> > Belinda

> > Friday, July 27, 2007 2:24 PM

> > rawfood

> > [Raw Food] Re: SPECIAL POST: Congressman Ron Paul

> >

> > sounds good, but where would the money to support the free health

> care come

> > from? It isn't going to be free for someone or groups of someones.

> >

> > Belinda

> >

July 27, 2007

Elchanan,

I'm glad you posted this.

My son actually(who is 15 and upset that he can't vote yet) had been

researching ALL the candidates and very much likes Ron Paul.

I'd like to fight for him too-I've gotten very apathetic because of

the 2 party system...but its time for me to change that even if its

just to make my son proud of me.

It's too defeatist to stay silent...so thanks for the the info and the

post.

Em

rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I do not typically address topics related to liberty in this group

dedicated

> to nutrition and healthful living. However, right now a very

courageous man,

> a congressional representative from Texas, is trying to win the

Republican

> nomination for President of the United States. And for the first time

> perhaps since the time of President Andrew Jackson (who served in that

> office between 1829-1837), we have a candidate who genuinely seems to

> comprehend ... and to stand for ... what America's founders sought to

> create.

>

> This piece is written by Ron Paul himself, following an interview during

> which he " told the truth " . Here he goes much farther. Regardless of your

> affiliations, beliefs, etc., I encourage you at least to read this

piece.

> Then, if you wish to support this man, I invite you to do so. I

intend to

> send the first political donation I've sent to anyone for anything

in many,

> many years.

>

> Best to all,

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> Nolan Anderson lou & dr. bob at lake tahoe Monday,

June 25,

> 2007 7:24 PM Dr. Ron Paul

>

> Lou and Dr. Bob:

>

> Here is an article I received from an acquaintance in the

Netherlands. I

> have never seen this. Have you seen it?

>

> Best regards,

>

> Nolan

> ____________

> CONGRESSMAN TOO TRUTHFUL

>

> by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

>

> AMERICA'S FRIEND: THE HONORABLE CONGRESSMAN RON PAUL

>

> THE OTHER DAY, I MADE A HUGE " GAFFE " ON NATIONAL TV: I TOLD THE

TRUTH ABOUT

> THE CRIMES OF THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.

>

> As you can imagine, the ceiling fell in, and a couple of walls too.

> Congressmen are supposed to support the government, I was told. Oh,

it's

> okay to criticize around edges, but there are certain subjects a

member of

> the House of Representatives is not supposed to bring up. But I

touched the

> real " third rail " of American politics, and the sparks sure flew.

>

> I was interviewed on C-SPAN's morning " Washington Journal, " and I

used the

> opportunity, as I do all such media appearances, to point out how

many of

> our liberties have been stolen by the federal government.* We must

take them

> back. The Constitution, after all, has a very limited role for

Washington,

> D.C.

>

> If we stuck to the Constitution as written, we would have: no federal

> meddling in our schools; no Federal Reserve;* no U. S. membership

in the

July 27, 2007

sounds good, but where would the money to support the free health care

come from? It isn't going to be free for someone or groups of someones.

Belinda

> Did you guys know that the only vegan running for president is Dennis

> Kucinich? He's also the only one who wants a universal health care

system--free

> health care for everyone.

>

> Judy

>

July 27, 2007

Do you seriously believe " free " ? That is, of course, impossible.

Elchanan

_____

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

vegwriter

Friday, July 27, 2007 1:56 PM

emusedmary; rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Re: SPECIAL POST: Congressman Ron Paul

Did you guys know that the only vegan running for president is Dennis

Kucinich? He's also the only one who wants a universal health care

system--free

health care for everyone.

Judy

July 27, 2007

It isn't going to be free for anyone. The costs will simply be " funded " by

some roundabout means, such as a tax, or a tax, or a tax.

Elchanan

_____

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Belinda

Friday, July 27, 2007 2:24 PM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re: SPECIAL POST: Congressman Ron Paul

sounds good, but where would the money to support the free health care come

from? It isn't going to be free for someone or groups of someones.

Belinda

July 27, 2007

LOL, that is what I was thinking. I am tax poor as it is. So I am

not for that one.

Belinda

> It isn't going to be free for anyone. The costs will simply

be " funded " by

> some roundabout means, such as a tax, or a tax, or a tax.

> Elchanan

>

> _____

>

> rawfood [rawfood ] On

Behalf Of

> Belinda

> Friday, July 27, 2007 2:24 PM

> rawfood

> [Raw Food] Re: SPECIAL POST: Congressman Ron Paul

>

> sounds good, but where would the money to support the free health

care come

> from? It isn't going to be free for someone or groups of someones.

>

> Belinda

>

July 28, 2007

Hmmm....maybe. But at least the government won't be controlling my

health care. Telling me who I can see, when I can see them, what

kind of treatment I receive, etc. That is even if I can get to a

doctor before my demise. Look at the countries that have free

healthcare. Very long wait sometimes and not always the best of

doctors.

Now I know insurance companies decide who you can see and what kind

of treatments sometimes too. But we have a lot of insurance

companies to choose from with all different kinds of policies.

Besides. I don't think it will be all that much cheaper. With the

tremendous cost of healthcare and the ever increasing decline of the

health of humans in this country, can you imagine how high of a taxes

we all would have to pay to cover everyones healthcare costs?

And then there are the hypocondriacts that go to the emergency room

and doctors for every bump and scrape and sniffle. And lets not

forget those people that refuse to do what the doctors tell them to

do to improve their health or prevent bad health.

I have no intentions of paying for their healthcare, when I am

working so hard myself to prevent being a burden because of my bad

health.

Anyway, I am never, and will never be for anymore government control

in my life.

Belinda

> Health insurance costs a lot more

>

> In a message dated 7/27/07 5:54:24 PM, MistyBlueTN writes:

>

> > LOL, that is what I was thinking. I am tax poor as it is. So I

am

> > not for that one.

> >

> > Belinda

> >

> > > It isn't going to be free for anyone. The costs will simply

> > be " funded " by

> > > some roundabout means, such as a tax, or a tax, or a tax.

> > > Elchanan

> > >

> > > _____

> > >

> > > rawfood [rawfood ]

On

> > Behalf Of

> > > Belinda

> > > Friday, July 27, 2007 2:24 PM

> > > rawfood

> > > [Raw Food] Re: SPECIAL POST: Congressman Ron Paul

> > >

> > > sounds good, but where would the money to support the free

health

> > care come

> > > from? It isn't going to be free for someone or groups of

someones.

> > >

> > > Belinda

> > >

July 28, 2007

And why should the richest people be required to pay for the

healthcare of all the people in the US?

Why is it their responsiblity? It's their money, they earned it,

none of us has a right to it.

Make it too hard on the rich folks and they may just quit and be like

the rest of us. (I mean why work so hard and have so much

responsiblity when you can't keep the money you earn.) And then we

are all going to be in a mess. Most of the taxes paid in come from

them already. And then their are ALL the inverstments they invest in

that keep this country going.

Not to mention, none of us would have jobs. We need the rich people

to give us jobs. Most of them already provide insurance benfits

anyway. So in a way, they ARE providing healthcare.

If you want what the rich folks have, you need to get out there and

do what the rich folks do. If you want to know what that is, you

have to learn from those that are already rich. (just like if we

want to be healthy, we should learn from those that already are, and

do what they are doing) And I am not talking about those that got

their riches from an inheritance or winning the lottery. I am

talking about the self made rich folks.

Also, I don't think 1% of the richest people could possibly touch the

costs of everyones healthcare.

Do you really want the government being responsible for your

healthcare? Ever been involved with the VA hospitals? They do NOT

get the best of healthcare. It is discusting and a shame that our

veterans get such poor healthcare.

But you know what they say? You get what you pay for. You pay

little or nothing, you get little or nothing.

Belinda

> From the one percent of the richest people.

>

> > sounds good, but where would the money to support the free health

care

> > come from? It isn't going to be free for someone or groups of

someones.

> >

> > Belinda

> >

> > > Did you guys know that the only vegan running for president is

Dennis

> > > Kucinich? He's also the only one who wants a universal health

care

> > system--free

> > > health care for everyone.

> > >

> > > Judy

> > >

> >

July 28, 2007

Would people consider updating their subject lines occasionally? Just a

thought ...

Elchanan

_____

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Belinda

Saturday, July 28, 2007 4:14 AM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re: SPECIAL POST: Congressman Ron Paul

Hmmm....maybe. But at least the government won't be controlling my

health care. Telling me who I can see, when I can see them, what

kind of treatment I receive, etc. That is even if I can get to a

doctor before my demise. Look at the countries that have free

healthcare. Very long wait sometimes and not always the best of

doctors.

<<< snip >>>

July 29, 2007

Hear, hear, Joe!

Bravo!!!

I'm so glad you spoke up!

Judy

In a message dated 7/29/07 12:31:13 AM, joepostma writes:

> Well, I am from Canada and as you know we have free (well, government

> funded) health care. I feel I must defend it simply because I grew up

> with it, I have NEVER heard anyone complain TOO BAD about it. I mean

> sure, everyone complains, but I haven't heard people complain about

> health care in Canada with the same vigor and voice as I hear coming

> out the states. As far as I can tell, and from what I read, hear, and

> see on the news, our gov. health care system is leaps and bounds

> better than the US private system. And we don't have ANYONE going

> bankrupt over medical bills, and no matter what, if you get hurt or

> sick, you can feel very confident that someone will be with you

> shortly - you are NEVER turned away.

>

> On the other hand, it is quite true that the reason we don't have a

> strong military (not that we need one...haha) is because so much of

> our tax money goes into health care. But I guess if that is the

> choice, I would rather have gov. health care than a huge military we

> don't need, with people running it who don't have the responsibility

> to do so (wink wink).

> But there is a 3rd option. If people could actually open their brains

> and learn how to eat, then we wouldn't have to spend so much on health

> care either, and could spend our tax money on cool futuristic

> projects, helping 3rd world countries, or reducing taxes, etc. Gov.

> health care would be extremely cheap then, because disease rates would

> so drastically reduce (destroying the medical industry...conspiracy

> anyone?? hehe).

> In the end, I am glad I don't have to even worry about access to a

> doctor in case of some unforeseen sickness. Although I agree with you

> in that I dislike seeing fat people everyday stuffing their faces with

> coffee, cig's, donuts and fried/fast food, CHOOSING to live that way

> even though they are aware of the alternative, and costing ME money

> through health care taxes. But, I used to be that way too.

>

> Anyway I think I rambled off...

>

> Joe

>

> rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN wrote:

> >

> > Hmmm....maybe. But at least the government won't be controlling my

> > health care. Telling me who I can see, when I can see them, what

> > kind of treatment I receive, etc. That is even if I can get to a

> > doctor before my demise. Look at the countries that have free

> > healthcare. Very long wait sometimes and not always the best of

> > doctors.

> >

> > Now I know insurance companies decide who you can see and what kind

> > of treatments sometimes too. But we have a lot of insurance

> > companies to choose from with all different kinds of policies.

> >

> > Besides. I don't think it will be all that much cheaper. With the

> > tremendous cost of healthcare and the ever increasing decline of the

> > health of humans in this country, can you imagine how high of a taxes

> > we all would have to pay to cover everyones healthcare costs?

> > And then there are the hypocondriacts that go to the emergency room

> > and doctors for every bump and scrape and sniffle. And lets not

> > forget those people that refuse to do what the doctors tell them to

> > do to improve their health or prevent bad health.

> > I have no intentions of paying for their healthcare, when I am

> > working so hard myself to prevent being a burden because of my bad

> > health.

> >

> > Anyway, I am never, and will never be for anymore government control

> > in my life.

> >

> > Belinda

> >

>

July 29, 2007

Well, I am from Canada and as you know we have free (well, government

funded) health care. I feel I must defend it simply because I grew up

with it, I have NEVER heard anyone complain TOO BAD about it. I mean

sure, everyone complains, but I haven't heard people complain about

health care in Canada with the same vigor and voice as I hear coming

out the states. As far as I can tell, and from what I read, hear, and

see on the news, our gov. health care system is leaps and bounds

better than the US private system. And we don't have ANYONE going

bankrupt over medical bills, and no matter what, if you get hurt or

sick, you can feel very confident that someone will be with you

shortly - you are NEVER turned away.

On the other hand, it is quite true that the reason we don't have a

strong military (not that we need one...haha) is because so much of

our tax money goes into health care. But I guess if that is the

choice, I would rather have gov. health care than a huge military we

don't need, with people running it who don't have the responsibility

to do so (wink wink).

But there is a 3rd option. If people could actually open their brains

and learn how to eat, then we wouldn't have to spend so much on health

care either, and could spend our tax money on cool futuristic

projects, helping 3rd world countries, or reducing taxes, etc. Gov.

health care would be extremely cheap then, because disease rates would

so drastically reduce (destroying the medical industry...conspiracy

anyone?? hehe).

In the end, I am glad I don't have to even worry about access to a

doctor in case of some unforeseen sickness. Although I agree with you

in that I dislike seeing fat people everyday stuffing their faces with

coffee, cig's, donuts and fried/fast food, CHOOSING to live that way

even though they are aware of the alternative, and costing ME money

through health care taxes. But, I used to be that way too.

Anyway I think I rambled off...

Joe

rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN wrote:

>

> Hmmm....maybe. But at least the government won't be controlling my

> health care. Telling me who I can see, when I can see them, what

> kind of treatment I receive, etc. That is even if I can get to a

> doctor before my demise. Look at the countries that have free

> healthcare. Very long wait sometimes and not always the best of

> doctors.

>

> Now I know insurance companies decide who you can see and what kind

> of treatments sometimes too. But we have a lot of insurance

> companies to choose from with all different kinds of policies.

>

> Besides. I don't think it will be all that much cheaper. With the

> tremendous cost of healthcare and the ever increasing decline of the

> health of humans in this country, can you imagine how high of a taxes

> we all would have to pay to cover everyones healthcare costs?

> And then there are the hypocondriacts that go to the emergency room

> and doctors for every bump and scrape and sniffle. And lets not

> forget those people that refuse to do what the doctors tell them to

> do to improve their health or prevent bad health.

> I have no intentions of paying for their healthcare, when I am

> working so hard myself to prevent being a burden because of my bad

> health.

>

> Anyway, I am never, and will never be for anymore government control

> in my life.

>

> Belinda

>

July 30, 2007

Glad you are happy with it. But am wondering if there isn't more

than just the military that is slighted by government funding, that

the US has.

Such as education, food, housing and other things that the government

makes available for the low income (and not so low income) folks.

Our government supports this already. No doubt if " free " healthcare

comes in to play, some of the other governement funded programs will

be slighted.

We also have healthcare for those that cannot afford it.

Recently a friend had emergency open heart surgery (that his family

could NOT afford). They applied for a program to help with cost,

even though they earned above the maximum for this program.

They just got a bill from the hospital showing where the 100's of

thousands of dollars worth of hospital bills was fully paid by the

program.

Another couple I know, just had the surgery on their stomachs so they

would not continue to over eat. They couldn't afford the surgary,

but it was paid for by government funded insurance.

And then there is all the free healthcare that our " non " citizens

keep getting.

The government has programs for those that need it, as well as

programs funded by very generous people, many of which are the " very

rich " . (and they do this without being forced to by the government)

Our country is full of programs to help with healthcare and many

other needs for folks that need it. Both government funded, and

personally funded.

What we DON'T seem to have, is people to monitor the funds to make

sure the people receiving it, really does need it.

It is a terribly abused system by some very lazy people that just

wont work and earn their own way. And why should they, when they can

get the government to take care of them for free.

And as we all know. The government isn't always so good at that

either.

Remember all the people in N.O. after Katrina? They were depending

on the government to see to their comfort and safety during and after

a massive hurricane.

The people that got out of N.O. and avoided the suffering, were the

ones that did NOT trust the government to know what was in their best

interest and acted accordingly.

And for me. I am of an age that if something doesn't drastically

change, aaaaaalll the money I have been forced to pay the government

for help with my dailey liveing after I retire, (aka social

security), isn't even going to be there for me.

So on top of what the government steals out of my check, I have to

try to scrape around and do without things, so I can attempt to save

my own money to replace what social security I am not likely to ever

receive.

And for the very rich? My in-laws are living comfortably with the

retirement benfits, both pension (a very good one) and wonderful

insurance (that is very much needed for my mother in-law's bad health)

provided by the company, a very large company (owned by rich people)

that was offered to all the hourly (aka blue collar workers) that

worked for them. Not bad for a couple that never gradutated high

school. And they are not the only ones. There are millions all over

this country just like them.

And my parents are'nt doing too bad with the benefits from the

companies that they retired from. My mom's company matched her small

investments all the years she worked them, on top of her retirement

benefits that they paid.

Those investments combined with her retirement are affording them a

very comfortable living in their senior years.

Now when I say our parents live comfortably, I am not talking world

travelers and vacation homes, etc. They all live very modestly in

small to average houses that are paid for in decent neighborhoods.

My parents have been in the same house for over 40 years, and are

down to one nice car.(there choice, they have the money for another

if they want) But they have their healhcare taken care of and they

never have to worry about having enough food or keeping the lights on.

The same for my in-laws.

So don't penelize the rich,(heck they already pay a bigger percentage

of their income into the government than the rest of us do) because

they do more than the government ever could or would to support

others.

And stop giving the government more power over us. The more

dependent we become on them, the more power and control we give them

over our lives.

Belinda

> Well, I am from Canada and as you know we have free (well,

government

> funded) health care. I feel I must defend it simply because I grew

up

> with it, I have NEVER heard anyone complain TOO BAD about it. I

mean

> sure, everyone complains, but I haven't heard people complain about

> health care in Canada with the same vigor and voice as I hear coming

> out the states. As far as I can tell, and from what I read, hear,

and

> see on the news, our gov. health care system is leaps and bounds

> better than the US private system. And we don't have ANYONE going

> bankrupt over medical bills, and no matter what, if you get hurt or

> sick, you can feel very confident that someone will be with you

> shortly - you are NEVER turned away.

>

> On the other hand, it is quite true that the reason we don't have a

> strong military (not that we need one...haha) is because so much of

> our tax money goes into health care. But I guess if that is the

> choice, I would rather have gov. health care than a huge military we

> don't need, with people running it who don't have the responsibility

> to do so (wink wink).

> But there is a 3rd option. If people could actually open their

brains

> and learn how to eat, then we wouldn't have to spend so much on

health

> care either, and could spend our tax money on cool futuristic

> projects, helping 3rd world countries, or reducing taxes, etc. Gov.

> health care would be extremely cheap then, because disease rates

would

> so drastically reduce (destroying the medical industry...conspiracy

> anyone?? hehe).

> In the end, I am glad I don't have to even worry about access to a

> doctor in case of some unforeseen sickness. Although I agree with

you

> in that I dislike seeing fat people everyday stuffing their faces

with

> coffee, cig's, donuts and fried/fast food, CHOOSING to live that way

> even though they are aware of the alternative, and costing ME money

> through health care taxes. But, I used to be that way too.

>

> Anyway I think I rambled off...

>

> Joe

>

> rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN@> wrote:

> >

> > Hmmm....maybe. But at least the government won't be controlling

my

> > health care. Telling me who I can see, when I can see them, what

> > kind of treatment I receive, etc. That is even if I can get to a

> > doctor before my demise. Look at the countries that have free

> > healthcare. Very long wait sometimes and not always the best of

> > doctors.

> >

> > Now I know insurance companies decide who you can see and what

kind

> > of treatments sometimes too. But we have a lot of insurance

> > companies to choose from with all different kinds of policies.

> >

> > Besides. I don't think it will be all that much cheaper. With

the

> > tremendous cost of healthcare and the ever increasing decline of

the

> > health of humans in this country, can you imagine how high of a

taxes

> > we all would have to pay to cover everyones healthcare costs?

> > And then there are the hypocondriacts that go to the emergency

room

> > and doctors for every bump and scrape and sniffle. And lets not

> > forget those people that refuse to do what the doctors tell them

to

> > do to improve their health or prevent bad health.

> > I have no intentions of paying for their healthcare, when I am

> > working so hard myself to prevent being a burden because of my

bad

> > health.

> >

> > Anyway, I am never, and will never be for anymore government

control

> > in my life.

> >

> > Belinda

> >

>

July 30, 2007

Belinda,

You said it much better than I ever could.

Well done,

Jeannie

your time is the most cherished gift of all, tomorrow is promised to no one.

Belinda <MistyBlueTN

rawfood

Monday, July 30, 2007 5:44:30 AM

[Raw Food] Re: SPECIAL POST: Congressman Ron Paul

Glad you are happy with it. But am wondering if there isn't more

than just the military that is slighted by government funding, that

the US has.

Such as education, food, housing and other things that the government

makes available for the low income (and not so low income) folks.

Our government supports this already. No doubt if " free " healthcare

comes in to play, some of the other governement funded programs will

be slighted.

We also have healthcare for those that cannot afford it.

Recently a friend had emergency open heart surgery (that his family

could NOT afford). They applied for a program to help with cost,

even though they earned above the maximum for this program.

They just got a bill from the hospital showing where the 100's of

thousands of dollars worth of hospital bills was fully paid by the

program.

Another couple I know, just had the surgery on their stomachs so they

would not continue to over eat. They couldn't afford the surgary,

but it was paid for by government funded insurance.

And then there is all the free healthcare that our " non " citizens

keep getting.

The government has programs for those that need it, as well as

programs funded by very generous people, many of which are the " very

rich " . (and they do this without being forced to by the government)

Our country is full of programs to help with healthcare and many

other needs for folks that need it. Both government funded, and

personally funded.

What we DON'T seem to have, is people to monitor the funds to make

sure the people receiving it, really does need it.

It is a terribly abused system by some very lazy people that just

wont work and earn their own way. And why should they, when they can

get the government to take care of them for free.

And as we all know. The government isn't always so good at that

either.

Remember all the people in N.O. after Katrina? They were depending

on the government to see to their comfort and safety during and after

a massive hurricane.

The people that got out of N.O. and avoided the suffering, were the

ones that did NOT trust the government to know what was in their best

interest and acted accordingly.

And for me. I am of an age that if something doesn't drastically

change, aaaaaalll the money I have been forced to pay the government

for help with my dailey liveing after I retire, (aka social

security), isn't even going to be there for me.

So on top of what the government steals out of my check, I have to

try to scrape around and do without things, so I can attempt to save

my own money to replace what social security I am not likely to ever

receive.

And for the very rich? My in-laws are living comfortably with the

retirement benfits, both pension (a very good one) and wonderful

insurance (that is very much needed for my mother in-law's bad health)

provided by the company, a very large company (owned by rich people)

that was offered to all the hourly (aka blue collar workers) that

worked for them. Not bad for a couple that never gradutated high

school. And they are not the only ones. There are millions all over

this country just like them.

And my parents are'nt doing too bad with the benefits from the

companies that they retired from. My mom's company matched her small

investments all the years she worked them, on top of her retirement

benefits that they paid.

Those investments combined with her retirement are affording them a

very comfortable living in their senior years.

Now when I say our parents live comfortably, I am not talking world

travelers and vacation homes, etc. They all live very modestly in

small to average houses that are paid for in decent neighborhoods.

My parents have been in the same house for over 40 years, and are

down to one nice car.(there choice, they have the money for another

if they want) But they have their healhcare taken care of and they

never have to worry about having enough food or keeping the lights on.

The same for my in-laws.

So don't penelize the rich,(heck they already pay a bigger percentage

of their income into the government than the rest of us do) because

they do more than the government ever could or would to support

others.

And stop giving the government more power over us. The more

dependent we become on them, the more power and control we give them

over our lives.

Belinda

> Well, I am from Canada and as you know we have free (well,

government

> funded) health care. I feel I must defend it simply because I grew

up

> with it, I have NEVER heard anyone complain TOO BAD about it. I

mean

> sure, everyone complains, but I haven't heard people complain about

> health care in Canada with the same vigor and voice as I hear coming

> out the states. As far as I can tell, and from what I read, hear,

and

> see on the news, our gov. health care system is leaps and bounds

> better than the US private system. And we don't have ANYONE going

> bankrupt over medical bills, and no matter what, if you get hurt or

> sick, you can feel very confident that someone will be with you

> shortly - you are NEVER turned away.

>

> On the other hand, it is quite true that the reason we don't have a

> strong military (not that we need one...haha) is because so much of

> our tax money goes into health care. But I guess if that is the

> choice, I would rather have gov. health care than a huge military we

> don't need, with people running it who don't have the responsibility

> to do so (wink wink).

> But there is a 3rd option. If people could actually open their

brains

> and learn how to eat, then we wouldn't have to spend so much on

health

> care either, and could spend our tax money on cool futuristic

> projects, helping 3rd world countries, or reducing taxes, etc. Gov.

> health care would be extremely cheap then, because disease rates

would

> so drastically reduce (destroying the medical industry...conspiracy

> anyone?? hehe).

> In the end, I am glad I don't have to even worry about access to a

> doctor in case of some unforeseen sickness. Although I agree with

you

> in that I dislike seeing fat people everyday stuffing their faces

with

> coffee, cig's, donuts and fried/fast food, CHOOSING to live that way

> even though they are aware of the alternative, and costing ME money

> through health care taxes. But, I used to be that way too.

>

> Anyway I think I rambled off...

>

> Joe

>

> rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN@> wrote:

> >

> > Hmmm....maybe. But at least the government won't be controlling

my

> > health care. Telling me who I can see, when I can see them, what

> > kind of treatment I receive, etc. That is even if I can get to a

> > doctor before my demise. Look at the countries that have free

> > healthcare. Very long wait sometimes and not always the best of

> > doctors.

> >

> > Now I know insurance companies decide who you can see and what

kind

> > of treatments sometimes too. But we have a lot of insurance

> > companies to choose from with all different kinds of policies.

> >

> > Besides. I don't think it will be all that much cheaper. With

the

> > tremendous cost of healthcare and the ever increasing decline of

the

> > health of humans in this country, can you imagine how high of a

taxes

> > we all would have to pay to cover everyones healthcare costs?

> > And then there are the hypocondriacts that go to the emergency

room

> > and doctors for every bump and scrape and sniffle. And lets not

> > forget those people that refuse to do what the doctors tell them

to

> > do to improve their health or prevent bad health.

> > I have no intentions of paying for their healthcare, when I am

> > working so hard myself to prevent being a burden because of my

bad

> > health.

> >

> > Anyway, I am never, and will never be for anymore government

control

> > in my life.

> >

> > Belinda

> >

>

July 30, 2007

I bet you haven't seen the movie Sicko yet, have you?

In a message dated 7/30/07 6:45:26 AM, MistyBlueTN writes:

> Glad you are happy with it. But am wondering if there isn't more

> than just the military that is slighted by government funding, that

> the US has.

> Such as education, food, housing and other things that the government

> makes available for the low income (and not so low income) folks.

> Our government supports this already. No doubt if " free " healthcare

> comes in to play, some of the other governement funded programs will

> be slighted.

>

> We also have healthcare for those that cannot afford it.

>

> Recently a friend had emergency open heart surgery (that his family

> could NOT afford). They applied for a program to help with cost,

> even though they earned above the maximum for this program.

> They just got a bill from the hospital showing where the 100's of

> thousands of dollars worth of hospital bills was fully paid by the

> program.

>

> Another couple I know, just had the surgery on their stomachs so they

> would not continue to over eat. They couldn't afford the surgary,

> but it was paid for by government funded insurance.

>

> And then there is all the free healthcare that our " non " citizens

> keep getting.

>

> The government has programs for those that need it, as well as

> programs funded by very generous people, many of which are the " very

> rich " . (and they do this without being forced to by the government)

>

> Our country is full of programs to help with healthcare and many

> other needs for folks that need it. Both government funded, and

> personally funded.

> What we DON'T seem to have, is people to monitor the funds to make

> sure the people receiving it, really does need it.

> It is a terribly abused system by some very lazy people that just

> wont work and earn their own way. And why should they, when they can

> get the government to take care of them for free.

>

> And as we all know. The government isn't always so good at that

> either.

>

> Remember all the people in N.O. after Katrina? They were depending

> on the government to see to their comfort and safety during and after

> a massive hurricane.

>

> The people that got out of N.O. and avoided the suffering, were the

> ones that did NOT trust the government to know what was in their best

> interest and acted accordingly.

>

> And for me. I am of an age that if something doesn't drastically

> change, aaaaaalll the money I have been forced to pay the government

> for help with my dailey liveing after I retire, (aka social

> security), isn't even going to be there for me.

> So on top of what the government steals out of my check, I have to

> try to scrape around and do without things, so I can attempt to save

> my own money to replace what social security I am not likely to ever

> receive.

>

> And for the very rich? My in-laws are living comfortably with the

> retirement benfits, both pension (a very good one) and wonderful

> insurance (that is very much needed for my mother in-law's bad health)

> provided by the company, a very large company (owned by rich people)

> that was offered to all the hourly (aka blue collar workers) that

> worked for them. Not bad for a couple that never gradutated high

> school. And they are not the only ones. There are millions all over

> this country just like them.

>

> And my parents are'nt doing too bad with the benefits from the

> companies that they retired from. My mom's company matched her small

> investments all the years she worked them, on top of her retirement

> benefits that they paid.

> Those investments combined with her retirement are affording them a

> very comfortable living in their senior years.

>

> Now when I say our parents live comfortably, I am not talking world

> travelers and vacation homes, etc. They all live very modestly in

> small to average houses that are paid for in decent neighborhoods.

> My parents have been in the same house for over 40 years, and are

> down to one nice car.(there choice, they have the money for another

> if they want) But they have their healhcare taken care of and they

> never have to worry about having enough food or keeping the lights on.

>

> The same for my in-laws.

>

> So don't penelize the rich,(heck they already pay a bigger percentage

> of their income into the government than the rest of us do) because

> they do more than the government ever could or would to support

> others.

>

> And stop giving the government more power over us. The more

> dependent we become on them, the more power and control we give them

> over our lives.

>

> Belinda

>

> > Well, I am from Canada and as you know we have free (well,

> government

> > funded) health care. I feel I must defend it simply because I grew

> up

> > with it, I have NEVER heard anyone complain TOO BAD about it. I

> mean

> > sure, everyone complains, but I haven't heard people complain about

> > health care in Canada with the same vigor and voice as I hear coming

> > out the states. As far as I can tell, and from what I read, hear,

> and

> > see on the news, our gov. health care system is leaps and bounds

> > better than the US private system. And we don't have ANYONE going

> > bankrupt over medical bills, and no matter what, if you get hurt or

> > sick, you can feel very confident that someone will be with you

> > shortly - you are NEVER turned away.

> >

> > On the other hand, it is quite true that the reason we don't have a

> > strong military (not that we need one...haha) is because so much of

> > our tax money goes into health care. But I guess if that is the

> > choice, I would rather have gov. health care than a huge military we

> > don't need, with people running it who don't have the responsibility

> > to do so (wink wink).

> > But there is a 3rd option. If people could actually open their

> brains

> > and learn how to eat, then we wouldn't have to spend so much on

> health

> > care either, and could spend our tax money on cool futuristic

> > projects, helping 3rd world countries, or reducing taxes, etc. Gov.

> > health care would be extremely cheap then, because disease rates

> would

> > so drastically reduce (destroying the medical industry...conspiracy

> > anyone?? hehe).

> > In the end, I am glad I don't have to even worry about access to a

> > doctor in case of some unforeseen sickness. Although I agree with

> you

> > in that I dislike seeing fat people everyday stuffing their faces

> with

> > coffee, cig's, donuts and fried/fast food, CHOOSING to live that way

> > even though they are aware of the alternative, and costing ME money

> > through health care taxes. But, I used to be that way too.

> >

> > Anyway I think I rambled off...

> >

> > Joe

> >

> > rawfood , " Belinda " <MistyBlueTN@> wrote:

> > >

> > > Hmmm....maybe. But at least the government won't be controlling

> my

> > > health care. Telling me who I can see, when I can see them, what

> > > kind of treatment I receive, etc. That is even if I can get to a

> > > doctor before my demise. Look at the countries that have free

> > > healthcare. Very long wait sometimes and not always the best of

> > > doctors.

> > >

> > > Now I know insurance companies decide who you can see and what

> kind

> > > of treatments sometimes too. But we have a lot of insurance

> > > companies to choose from with all different kinds of policies.

> > >

> > > Besides. I don't think it will be all that much cheaper. With

> the

> > > tremendous cost of healthcare and the ever increasing decline of

> the

> > > health of humans in this country, can you imagine how high of a

> taxes

> > > we all would have to pay to cover everyones healthcare costs?

> > > And then there are the hypocondriacts that go to the emergency

> room

> > > and doctors for every bump and scrape and sniffle. And lets not

> > > forget those people that refuse to do what the doctors tell them

> to

> > > do to improve their health or prevent bad health.

> > > I have no intentions of paying for their healthcare, when I am

> > > working so hard myself to prevent being a burden because of my

> bad

> > > health.

> > >

> > > Anyway, I am never, and will never be for anymore government

> control

> > > in my life.

> > >

> > > Belinda

> > >

>

July 30, 2007

Joe,

Great post. I love Dennis Kucinich, here, and didn't know he wanted universal

health care but I love he's vegan and will vote for him regardless. I do agree

with you --- I have not heard ANYbody complain about the health care there or

anywhere, almost, like they do here. Honestly, no system is perfect, but in a

country where people die because they have to drive across the city to the

" right " hospital while their child is choking. Has everyone seen Sicko yet?

The thing is, I don't think universal health care, making sure everybody gets

free chemo, period, is the answer. That idea scares me because the SOLUTION is

self-responsibility.

I think MAJOR MEDICAL should be universal, meaning choking, car accidents,

emergency appendectomies, etc. Everybody should have " cutting and pasting " (what

I call it) for free. We all need that! I mean, we DO need doctors....as I often

say, if I get hit by a bus, don't bring me a SALAD, get me to the hospital!!!

BUT I'm pretty progressive and ideally, I say most of these so-called and

dietary diseases (cancer, heart disease, high cholesterol, high blood pressure,

type 2 diabetes, and others should NOT BE COVERED AT ALL. Unless it's a certain

situation (heart disease due to abnormality, or they are born with a rare form

of cancer, etc). But free mastectomies is not the answer, NOT covering ANY of

these preventable diseases is, to me, the way to do it. THESE are what's

crippling the system and more, and my God, wheatgrass is the cheapest chemo

there is. I don't like PETA, but they have a site called www.taxmeat.com. I

totally agree these items that we KNOW are deadly should be TAXED (instead, they

are subsidized).

These views may not make me very popular, but honestly, all these unnecessary

diseases are CRIPPLING our country. I just think it's bull to cover them when

every one of them has been healed naturally many times over.....It would be the

BEST thing that ever happened to this country and to me is what is

necessary----NOT keeping things the way they are and NOT going to " universal "

health care.

Now, you cannot legislate responsibility, and something like this would

obviously include some kind of education that of course defies the plutocratic

system this country revolves around. But it is true to me at least that none of

the options will be very successful at all if they are just treating the

ever-growing symptom and not the cause. So, it's a dumb discussion/debate to me

otherwise (excepting just covering universal MAJOR MEDICAL care, which is

different than full coverage. ;-) ..........

Erica

" Well, I am from Canada and as you know we have free (well, government