Raw-attack-tics

[Guest guest]

Perhaps Elchanan should apologize to Erin, Neal,

Brenda and others for his insults to them. You seem

one-sided in your concern, Janet. I find this disturbing

and slightly sycophantic. If Elchanan, et al, doesn't/don't like

being attacked, he/they should exhibit some self control

over his/their swooping statements.

 

Mein Kampf has been on the shelves for quite some time too.

Being on a shelf or being written at all does not make

an idea or point view correct or best or anything.

 

If we are here to learn, as you state, why are some members

posting statements as if they are infallible facts of health? (EG,

onions and garlic ennervate the human body.) How can posting

falsehoods be healthy? How can posting opinions as fact-based

absolutes be construed as discussion?

 

Until such behavior desists, replies that are contrary will continue.

 

tev

 

Janet FitzGerald <waxplanet wrote:

There is no reason to attack anyone on this list. What Elchanan

shares with this group is generally not new material. Much of what

Elchanan generously teaches has been sitting on library shelves for

well over a century. And, his opinion matters to me. If I needed

scientific facts for everything I do, I wouldn't be eating raw at all.

It takes an open mind to lead a raw lifestyle, and more so to follow

various paths.

 

Please, everyone, be kind. We are here to learn. Agree to disagree.

Groups can disband overnight over things like this and then who is

to gain? (rhetorical - no need to respond)

 

Janet

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

tev,

 

I say if you want to eat your onions, garlic, and condiments,

chocolate, etc., that is your choice.

 

If anyone wants to research the " why's " of avoiding such non-foods,

they can search the archives and also find similar information on

sites such as www.rawfoodexplained.com.

 

To your path of health,

Janet

 

rawfood , tev treowlufu <goraw808 wrote:

 

 

Perhaps Elchanan should apologize to Erin, Neal, Brenda and others for

his insults to them. You seem one-sided in your concern, Janet. I

find this disturbing and slightly sycophantic. If Elchanan, et al,

doesn't/don't like being attacked, he/they should exhibit some self

control over his/their swooping statements.

 

Mein Kampf has been on the shelves for quite some time too.

Being on a shelf or being written at all does not make an idea or

point view correct or best or anything.

 

If we are here to learn, as you state, why are some members posting

statements as if they are infallible facts of health? (EG, onions and

garlic ennervate the human body.) How can posting falsehoods be

healthy? How can posting opinions as fact-based absolutes be

construed as discussion?

 

Until such behavior desists, replies that are contrary will continue.

 

tev Janet FitzGerald <waxplanet wrote:

There is no reason to attack anyone on this list. What Elchanan

shares with this group is generally not new material. Much of what

Elchanan generously teaches has been sitting on library shelves for

well over a century. And, his opinion matters to me. If I needed

scientific facts for everything I do, I wouldn't be eating raw at all.

It takes an open mind to lead a raw lifestyle, and more so to follow

various paths.

 

Please, everyone, be kind. We are here to learn. Agree to disagree.

Groups can disband overnight over things like this and then who is to

gain? (rhetorical - no need to respond)

 

Janet

____________________

[Guest guest]

On Monday 20 August 2007 19:48, tev treowlufu wrote:

> Perhaps Elchanan should apologize to Erin, Neal,

>   Brenda and others for his insults to them.

 

Wow, has he been doing that?

 

I really don't care what Elchanon says about me, insults are greeted with the

respect they deserve, i.e. empty space. Let him continue, I've got plenty!

 

But I do care about balance so anyone who's interested in a wider range of

views, here's an article in two parts worth reading.

 

The Myths of Vegetarianism

Part 1 of 2

 

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/vegemyths1.html

 

the link to part two is on the page.

 

neal.

[Guest guest]

Neal,

thank you VERY much for that link. Helps me with some

decisions

Ann

 

--- neal <kneel.pardoe wrote:

 

> On Monday 20 August 2007 19:48, tev treowlufu wrote:

> > Perhaps Elchanan should apologize to Erin, Neal,

> >   Brenda and others for his insults to them.

>

> Wow, has he been doing that?

>

> I really don't care what Elchanon says about me,

> insults are greeted with the

> respect they deserve, i.e. empty space. Let him

> continue, I've got plenty!

>

> But I do care about balance so anyone who's

> interested in a wider range of

> views, here's an article in two parts worth reading.

>

> The Myths of Vegetarianism

> Part 1 of 2

>

>

>

http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/vegemyths1.html

>

> the link to part two is on the page.

>

> neal.

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Guest guest]

Hi Gang - below is my first posting that I received from this group - seemed

like I jumped in at lively time. Anyway, I know I am going to enjoy

everyone's input. I have had many vegan friends over the years who have

gently tried to influence me. The thing that tipped me over was the China

Study and I have switched over and am encouraging many to read it. I know it

is a really big study and perhaps leaves out more than it answers but does

anyone know of a intelligent critique of it that I can read and be able to

answer questions.

 

 

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Dale

 

 

 

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

neal

Friday, August 24, 2007 10:19 AM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Raw-attack-tics

 

 

 

On Monday 20 August 2007 19:48, tev treowlufu wrote:

> Perhaps Elchanan should apologize to Erin, Neal,

> Brenda and others for his insults to them.

 

Wow, has he been doing that?

 

I really don't care what Elchanon says about me, insults are greeted with

the

respect they deserve, i.e. empty space. Let him continue, I've got plenty!

 

But I do care about balance so anyone who's interested in a wider range of

views, here's an article in two parts worth reading.

 

The Myths of Vegetarianism

Part 1 of 2

 

http://www.nexusmag <http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/vegemyths1.html>

azine.com/articles/vegemyths1.html

 

the link to part two is on the page.

 

neal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

No he hasn't been doing that.

 

That article is interesting. It has some valid points but it swings

just a little too much on the side of eating meat - in the sense that

someone might read it and then think they should eat tons of meat.

After all, if a little is good for you then a ton of it must be great

for you!

 

The problem with that is the source...packaged, pre-cooked, plastic

wrapped, hormone filled, food-coloring added, preservative mixed, etc

etc, the regular meat you buy most anywhere, is still not so good for

you. AND, neither are fruit and veggies when they come processed like

that!

 

It is all about the source. Organic produce is great and is

definitely great in large quantities - this IS a case where MORE is

BETTER - one of the few. Occasional meat from an organic and healthy

source is also good for you, and does NOT have a detrimental effect on

your health when you are already eating healthy. Because it is simply

true that if eating meat was that bad for you, cancer as a disease

would have appeared long ago in our history, not just in the last 100

or so years.

It is the other industrialized c**p we put into our body that is the

main culprit, and this isn't necessarily only found in meat. It

largely comes from all the junk we buy - candies, pop, coffee, chewing

gum, pastries, shaving creams (etc) that find their way from your

hands onto your food in minute quantities, other cosmetics, gas fumes,

engine oil, car exhaust, laundry and dish detergents, radiation from

tv's and other appliances, industrial pollutants coating everything we

touch and floating through the air, etc, need I go on?

 

 

Also, about the spirituality thing - it is a good point. It is common

knowledge that Natives offered prayers to the gods and spirits when

they killed something. This is spiritualism. I am not saying you

can't feel a spiritual connection to eating a fruit or veggie - you

definitely can. But the spiritual connection you feel to nature in

taking your own wild animal is much, much deeper, and much more moving

to the soul and on a deep level. You can feel no emotional connection

to an apple. You can definitely feel an emotional connection to a

deer before, during, and after you take it, and it is a humbling

experience. We are NOT above nature, and nature is NOT above us, and

when a human finds him/herself in nature without protection, we are

also taken by the animals which find us appetizing. This sounds

awfully scary, and is likely why some people think killing an animal

must be so terrible as well. But who is to say that death, and being

consumed by another living being, is not the most spiritual and

natural thing a life of any kind can do? It is. Death IS the most

spiritually intense, real-life, real-time, practical thing that can

happen to a living being, and we have all heard about people who've

had near death experiences talk about how calm and comfortable they

felt once they accepted that they were going to die.

Anyway, just trying to say that there is a lot more to the

spirituality of killing and eating another animal than the typical

" meat is murder " simple-minded mantra.

 

Lastly, the point about our digestive system - it is not one of a

herbivore, with multiple stomachs/gullets and we do not chew cud, as a

true herbivore. Our digestive system is that of an omnivore, longer

than a carnivore's but shorter than an herbivore's, with the capacity

to digest BOTH plant and animal matter. This goes TENS of millions of

years back in our evolution.

 

 

Anyway, IMHO the vast majority of the diet should be fruits and

veggies, raw. 10 percent of calories coming from HEALTHY CLEAN meat

is easily within tolerance.

 

Joe

 

 

 

rawfood , neal <kneel.pardoe wrote:

>

> On Monday 20 August 2007 19:48, tev treowlufu wrote:

> > Perhaps Elchanan should apologize to Erin, Neal,

> > Brenda and others for his insults to them.

>

> Wow, has he been doing that?

>

> I really don't care what Elchanon says about me, insults are greeted

with the

> respect they deserve, i.e. empty space. Let him continue, I've got

plenty!

>

> But I do care about balance so anyone who's interested in a wider

range of

> views, here's an article in two parts worth reading.

>

> The Myths of Vegetarianism

> Part 1 of 2

>

> http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/vegemyths1.html

>

> the link to part two is on the page.

>

> neal.

>

[Guest guest]

On Saturday 25 August 2007 00:53, you wrote:

> No he hasn't been doing that.

 

Well actually Joe, he has been doing that, and since I first came to this

list. It is plainly obvious, at least to some. Tev is not making it up, he is

ACCURATE!

 

neal.

[Guest guest]

Hi Dale,

What questions do you have in mind?

Elchanan

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Dale Bolton

Friday, August 24, 2007 4:22 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Raw-attack-tics

 

 

Hi Gang - below is my first posting that I received from this group - seemed

like I jumped in at lively time. Anyway, I know I am going to enjoy

everyone's input. I have had many vegan friends over the years who have

gently tried to influence me. The thing that tipped me over was the China

Study and I have switched over and am encouraging many to read it. I know it

is a really big study and perhaps leaves out more than it answers but does

anyone know of a intelligent critique of it that I can read and be able to

answer questions.

 

Thanks

 

Dale

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Elchanan - I think the review done at

http://www.zenpawn.com/amazon/?item=1932100660

<http://www.zenpawn.com/amazon/?item=1932100660 & s> & s - was very good but

my understand was that there were many different levels to the study - I

believe that Dr. Campbell said at one time they had 650,000 people on the

project gathering data on where different types of diseases were. - that

data was used to create maps that could link food to diseases. The enormity

seemed much bigger than any study done during that time. Anyway not being a

clinical researcher myself. I was wondering if there are weakness in the

report. Nothing is 100% in this life

 

 

 

Has anyone head any intelligent comments

 

 

 

Dale

 

 

 

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Elchanan

Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:54 AM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Raw-attack-tics

 

 

 

Hi Dale,

What questions do you have in mind?

Elchanan

_____

 

rawfood@ <rawfood%40> .com

[rawfood@ <rawfood%40> .com] On

Behalf Of

Dale Bolton

Friday, August 24, 2007 4:22 PM

rawfood@ <rawfood%40> .com

RE: [Raw Food] Raw-attack-tics

 

Hi Gang - below is my first posting that I received from this group - seemed

like I jumped in at lively time. Anyway, I know I am going to enjoy

everyone's input. I have had many vegan friends over the years who have

gently tried to influence me. The thing that tipped me over was the China

Study and I have switched over and am encouraging many to read it. I know it

is a really big study and perhaps leaves out more than it answers but does

anyone know of a intelligent critique of it that I can read and be able to

answer questions.

 

Thanks

 

Dale