How we add weight: what's healthful, what's not ( WAS: Is it possible to gain weight on raw food?)

[Guest guest]

Dear Elchannan,

 

I agree that the emphasis on overall health is more critical than losing

weight. However, losing weight is very important for many people as it

helps them with blood sugar and blood pressure issues. Obesity, as an

independent factor, (even if blood sugar and blood pressure and other

stuff is controlled for) is by itself linked to poor health. So I think

that overall goal of weight reduction is on the mind of many people.

 

Losing weight, in my view, requires both a mental and a physical approach.

 

A mental approach can focus on the nature of consumption itself. This

can be carried to deeper and deeper levels. In Jainism, the religion of

my teacher, many people, especially monks fast for some time period and

drink only water. Some fast for 30 days and even longer. It requires a

mental attitude. But it is not suitable for everyone.

 

Weight can also be lost by exercise and exerting will power to not eat

various foods. But these purely physical methods generally lead to a

reaction and revolt by the mind and body regaining the weight back.

 

In choice of food, I have found milled flax seeds, avocados, and nuts to

be helpful in various stages of my physical and mental needs. There is a

lot scientific evidence that the raw plant-based fats can favorably

effect the lipid profile, lower cholesterol, and stabilize blood sugar

as these foods are low in carbs.

 

A variety of raw food diets based on plants (or diets where raw food is

emphasized) can be helpful. I don't think nature intended for us to

follow a formula for protein, fats, carbs like 80/10/10 or 70/20/10 or

40/40/20, etc. This is all man made stuff.

 

Hope this does not hurt anyone's feelings but my intuition tells me that

unprocessed raw plant foods eaten whole are good even if the fat content

is high. Of course, one would not want to overeat the nuts and avocados.

However, when eating raw plant foods, the body gets good in giving

signals in terms of how much to consume.

 

Namaste and love to all

Harsha

 

 

 

Elchanan wrote:

> Nice one, Erica. There are only a few common ways to gain " weight " :

>

> 1. Add body fat.

> 2. Add lean tissue.

> 3. Add water weight.

> 4. Clog your digestive tract and accumulate fecal buildup.

>

> 1 occurs when we consume more energy (calories) than we expend.

> 2 occurs as a result of physical activity ... ONLY.

> 3. occurs when we consume salt and/or other substances that the body cannot

> remove, and therefore must dilute and store for now.

> 4 occurs when we consume a sufficiently poor diet that our bodies cannot

> move things through the digestive tube as quickly as we eat them.

>

> #2 is healthful. The rest are harmful, with RARE exceptions for #1. But rare

> means RARE ... the odds that this one applies to you are nearly zero.

>

> Gaining weight by eating more ALWAYS involves some combination of 1, 3, and

> 4 and is therefore almost ALWAYS destructive to one's health.

>

> Gaining weight through increased physical activity always results in

> increased lean tissue ... muscle, bone, and related tissues.

>

> I would also briefly reiterate what I've shared in the past, that

> weight-loss goals are almost always inherently self-defeating. A focus on

> overall health, and upon improving body composition (as opposed to body

> weight) are more sustainable, more achievable, and more healthful, both

> physically and emotionally.

>

> Hope this is helpful!

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

> Erica

> Friday, September 21, 2007 6:24 PM

> rawfood

> [Raw Food] Re: is it possible to gain weight on raw food?

>

>

> Yes, I know a few who gained considerable weight following the

> inapproprate and incorrect " advice " of some raw 'gurus' who promise you

> can just eat all you want, all the fats included, and lose weight. To

> be fair, SOME actually do this. I've seen it. Although losing weight is

> not the only goal, it's a side-effect of gaining health, usually, and I

> would never say a super high cashew diet is super healthy,

> just " healthier " than a high fast food, SAD diet, etc. Still, this

> advice always bugs me out because it's totally not true and easily

> fallible in the eyes of science and any true gauge of health. But a

> balanced raw diet (you have to find out what works for you within raw

> vegan) would be tough to gain weight on UNLESS you were

> malnourished/underweight. A lot of underweight people are able to gain

> after some cleansing because their underweightnesss is due to

> parasites, candida, or other imbalances that become corrected. Some

> fast and then are able to gain HEALTHY weight. And some fast and are

> able to lose unhealthy weight. It is all individual, but if you create

> health every day, no matter what the initial effects, you will without

> question reach your goals and your body will intuitively balance out.

> Erica

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Harsha, and thanks for your kind message.

 

understand that the perspective you describe is widely held. But the reason

is that this view sells products and programs ... not that it's actually

correct. " Weight loss " , in and of itself, is almost always accompanied by

weight gain ... what what we lose, we may find. That's why we have the " lost

and found " in almost every establishment.

 

The benefits you mention, blood sugar management, blood pressure management,

and many more you don't specifically mention here, ALL occur whenever we

reduce the fat, overall calories, salt, and various other dietary factors.

How do we know this is so? Because when we reduce all these factors to zero

.... when we fast ... we get the most rapid and comprehensive improvement

available by any natural means.

 

But if we follow any " diet " , or any fast, by returning to the same ways of

eating and living we practiced beforehand, then such improvement is ALWAYS

followed by great disappointment ... the yo-yo experience shared by so many,

and at such a great cost in terms of self-esteem and sense of hopelessness.

 

Another thought ... instead of " losing weight " , I always suggest that people

think in terms of returning to the world that which once served them in some

way, and which they no longer need. I find that for many people, choosing

such a perspective is healthful in and of itself ... it seems to bring a

sense of participation in something larger, of positive service above and

beyond self-care.

 

Regarding use of high-fat foods for emotional " well-being " , I do hope you

are open to a different perception. This is emotional eating, no different

than emotional eating with cooked foods. The body signals genuine

physiological satiation first in the mouth, not in the belly, and not in the

emotions. In fact, among the core transitioning topics we teach in the Path

of Health Community are physical self-awareness of thirst, hunger, and

satiation. Most Americans rarely, if ever, actually experience any of these

with any sense of clarity.

 

I agree with you about a specific formula ... to a point. And 80/10/10 is

not intended as a formula. Rather, it is intended as a guideline, a set of

boundary conditions: MAXIMUM of 10% of calories each from proteins and fats,

MINIMUM of 10% from carbs, primarily simple sugars. And although Dr. Doug

Graham owns the trademark on this name, this general guideline is, in fact,

taught in one form or another by Ornish, Esselstyn, McDougall, and many

others. This is what is learned in the China Study, the Framingham study.

This is what the leading exercise physiologists for the US and International

Olympic Committees say (though sometimes, apparently, only when queried in

private, as they wish to retain their jobs). In other words, there is

actually widespread agreement on this guideline, far more so than most

people realize. This is why I suggest to RFs that they read Dr. Graham's

book, The 80/10/10 Diet (www.FoodnSport.com/811) ... it's the only RF text

on the topic. And now, of as I wrote a day or two ago, we have Laurie

Masters' new product, The 80/10/10 Success Guide, which provides a wealth of

data about specific foods, food groups, and much more.

 

And I am aware of zero athletes that eat a high-fat meal before any form of

physical activity. Why? Because it would completely destroy their

performance. We are, after all, water-based, not fat-based, machines.

 

So yes, fats are essential ... and when we eat fruits and greens, we consume

fats in perfect quantities and proportions for our species. Avocados, in

moderation, seem to work well ... where moderation means 1/4 - 1/2 avocado

per day. But whenever we observe with an objective, dispassionate eye, we

find that consumption of much in the way of nuts, seeds, and definitely oils

impairs systemic functioning ... and also fills the role of so-called

" comfort foods " . Really!! I don't get paid more for saying so. :) (I don't

get paid at all for saying so :)

 

One last point ... when people actually check the numbers, most RFs find

that they are eating more fat ... WAY more fat ... than all but the very

worst of SAD eaters. Now, it is true that raw, plant-based fats are superior

to cooked fats in every way, ounce for ounce and calorie for calorie. But

this does not mean that consuming 50-80% of one's calories as fat leads to

long-term, sustainable health. It does not. Yet this is, in fact, what the

vast majority of RFs consume, each and every week.

 

You need not take my word for this. Simply logon to www.Nutridiary.com and

create a free account for yourself, then maintain your own food diary for a

few days. You'll need a food scale ... cheapo works just fine. And if you

(or anyone) want some help, the Path of Health Community offers a FREE, very

detailed Nutridiary tutorial called " Nutritional Self-Awareness " , audio plus

handout loaded with screen shots. This program is as yet unpublished, anyone

wishing to use it, please write to me privately and I'll send you the links

you need to download the complete program.

 

Best to all,

Elchanan

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Harsha

Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:26 AM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] How we add weight: what's healthful, what's not (

WAS: Is it possible to gain weight on raw food?)

 

 

Dear Elchanan,

 

I agree that the emphasis on overall health is more critical than losing

weight. However, losing weight is very important for many people as it

helps them with blood sugar and blood pressure issues. Obesity, as an

independent factor, (even if blood sugar and blood pressure and other stuff

is controlled for) is by itself linked to poor health. So I think that

overall goal of weight reduction is on the mind of many people.

 

Losing weight, in my view, requires both a mental and a physical approach.

 

A mental approach can focus on the nature of consumption itself. This can

be carried to deeper and deeper levels. In Jainism, the religion of my

teacher, many people, especially monks fast for some time period and drink

only water. Some fast for 30 days and even longer. It requires a mental

attitude. But it is not suitable for everyone.

 

Weight can also be lost by exercise and exerting will power to not eat

various foods. But these purely physical methods generally lead to a

reaction and revolt by the mind and body regaining the weight back.

 

In choice of food, I have found milled flax seeds, avocados, and nuts to be

helpful in various stages of my physical and mental needs. There is a lot

scientific evidence that the raw plant-based fats can favorably effect the

lipid profile, lower cholesterol, and stabilize blood sugar as these foods

are low in carbs.

 

A variety of raw food diets based on plants (or diets where raw food is

emphasized) can be helpful. I don't think nature intended for us to follow

a formula for protein, fats, carbs like 80/10/10 or 70/20/10 or

40/40/20, etc. This is all man made stuff.

 

Hope this does not hurt anyone's feelings but my intuition tells me that

unprocessed raw plant foods eaten whole are good even if the fat content is

high. Of course, one would not want to overeat the nuts and avocados.

However, when eating raw plant foods, the body gets good in giving signals

in terms of how much to consume.

 

Namaste and love to all Harsha

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

" Rather, it is intended as a guideline, a set of

boundary conditions: MAXIMUM of 10% of calories each from proteins and

fats,

MINIMUM of 10% from carbs, primarily simple sugars. And although Dr.

Doug

Graham owns the trademark on this name, this general guideline is, in

fact,

taught in one form or another by Ornish, Esselstyn, McDougall, and many

others. This is what is learned in the China Study, the Framingham

study. "

 

Elchanan, how can this be, though? McDougall, Bernard and others do not

teach 80% fruit or simple sugar. Their diets ARE low fat and vegan,

absolutely, but they teach grains (Doug is adamant against grains),

beans, and even some soy proteins. I would agree their diets are

similarly vegan and low-fat, but I wouldn't say the guidelines are the

same. It is tough to fail to note the tremendous success these

trailblazing doctors have had with a broad spectrum of serious diseases

that plague our nation, and through diet alone, but they really don't

even " get " the enzyme connection, etc. Erica

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your long and detailed answer Elchanan. Of course, I agree

with much of what you say. It is well known that over the long run, CRON

(Caloric Restriction Optimal Nutrition) is diet best suited for health

and longevity. Fasting can be part of it if one has the inclination and

the constitution. Certainly the nutritional excellence of raw plant

foods is undeniable. Whole foods in their natural state are best and

very few will argue with that.

 

I am not disagreeing with you Elchanan but only suggesting that one size

does not fit all perfectly for a variety of reasons. It is my view that

just like fasting, a moderately high raw plant fat diet based on

avocados, seeds, nuts etc. may be be useful and healing during certain

phases of life. It is only through having the confidence to experiment

with different foods does one learn. A food which is very good for one

person at one stage of life may not be so for another person.

 

If there is room for flexibility in our thinking then we can remain open

to not only learning further but also being less judgmental and perhaps

more compassionate. I am not speaking about you Elchanan as you seem to

me to be very decent and compassionate person with good vibes who helps

others.

 

Ultimately, we all have to meditate on the nature of consumption. We are

consuming not only foods but also thoughts, ideas, information, and

emotions. These influence us in subtle ways as well. Well, we all do the

best we can :-)

 

May all beings be free from sorrow

Namaste and love to all

Harsha

 

 

 

 

Elchanan wrote:

> Hi Harsha, and thanks for your kind message.

>

> understand that the perspective you describe is widely held. But the reason

> is that this view sells products and programs ... not that it's actually

> correct. " Weight loss " , in and of itself, is almost always accompanied by

> weight gain ... what what we lose, we may find. That's why we have the " lost

> and found " in almost every establishment.

>

> The benefits you mention, blood sugar management, blood pressure management,

> and many more you don't specifically mention here, ALL occur whenever we

> reduce the fat, overall calories, salt, and various other dietary factors.

> How do we know this is so? Because when we reduce all these factors to zero

> ... when we fast ... we get the most rapid and comprehensive improvement

> available by any natural means.

>

> But if we follow any " diet " , or any fast, by returning to the same ways of

> eating and living we practiced beforehand, then such improvement is ALWAYS

> followed by great disappointment ... the yo-yo experience shared by so many,

> and at such a great cost in terms of self-esteem and sense of hopelessness.

>

> Another thought ... instead of " losing weight " , I always suggest that people

> think in terms of returning to the world that which once served them in some

> way, and which they no longer need. I find that for many people, choosing

> such a perspective is healthful in and of itself ... it seems to bring a

> sense of participation in something larger, of positive service above and

> beyond self-care.

>

> Regarding use of high-fat foods for emotional " well-being " , I do hope you

> are open to a different perception. This is emotional eating, no different

> than emotional eating with cooked foods. The body signals genuine

> physiological satiation first in the mouth, not in the belly, and not in the

> emotions. In fact, among the core transitioning topics we teach in the Path

> of Health Community are physical self-awareness of thirst, hunger, and

> satiation. Most Americans rarely, if ever, actually experience any of these

> with any sense of clarity.

>

> I agree with you about a specific formula ... to a point. And 80/10/10 is

> not intended as a formula. Rather, it is intended as a guideline, a set of

> boundary conditions: MAXIMUM of 10% of calories each from proteins and fats,

> MINIMUM of 10% from carbs, primarily simple sugars. And although Dr. Doug

> Graham owns the trademark on this name, this general guideline is, in fact,

> taught in one form or another by Ornish, Esselstyn, McDougall, and many

> others. This is what is learned in the China Study, the Framingham study.

> This is what the leading exercise physiologists for the US and International

> Olympic Committees say (though sometimes, apparently, only when queried in

> private, as they wish to retain their jobs). In other words, there is

> actually widespread agreement on this guideline, far more so than most

> people realize. This is why I suggest to RFs that they read Dr. Graham's

> book, The 80/10/10 Diet (www.FoodnSport.com/811) ... it's the only RF text

> on the topic. And now, of as I wrote a day or two ago, we have Laurie

> Masters' new product, The 80/10/10 Success Guide, which provides a wealth of

> data about specific foods, food groups, and much more.

>

> And I am aware of zero athletes that eat a high-fat meal before any form of

> physical activity. Why? Because it would completely destroy their

> performance. We are, after all, water-based, not fat-based, machines.

>

> So yes, fats are essential ... and when we eat fruits and greens, we consume

> fats in perfect quantities and proportions for our species. Avocados, in

> moderation, seem to work well ... where moderation means 1/4 - 1/2 avocado

> per day. But whenever we observe with an objective, dispassionate eye, we

> find that consumption of much in the way of nuts, seeds, and definitely oils

> impairs systemic functioning ... and also fills the role of so-called

> " comfort foods " . Really!! I don't get paid more for saying so. :) (I don't

> get paid at all for saying so :)

>

> One last point ... when people actually check the numbers, most RFs find

> that they are eating more fat ... WAY more fat ... than all but the very

> worst of SAD eaters. Now, it is true that raw, plant-based fats are superior

> to cooked fats in every way, ounce for ounce and calorie for calorie. But

> this does not mean that consuming 50-80% of one's calories as fat leads to

> long-term, sustainable health. It does not. Yet this is, in fact, what the

> vast majority of RFs consume, each and every week.

>

> You need not take my word for this. Simply logon to www.Nutridiary.com and

> create a free account for yourself, then maintain your own food diary for a

> few days. You'll need a food scale ... cheapo works just fine. And if you

> (or anyone) want some help, the Path of Health Community offers a FREE, very

> detailed Nutridiary tutorial called " Nutritional Self-Awareness " , audio plus

> handout loaded with screen shots. This program is as yet unpublished, anyone

> wishing to use it, please write to me privately and I'll send you the links

> you need to download the complete program.

>

> Best to all,

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

> Harsha

> Sunday, September 23, 2007 6:26 AM

> rawfood

> Re: [Raw Food] How we add weight: what's healthful, what's not (

> WAS: Is it possible to gain weight on raw food?)

>

>

> Dear Elchanan,

>

> I agree that the emphasis on overall health is more critical than losing

> weight. However, losing weight is very important for many people as it

> helps them with blood sugar and blood pressure issues. Obesity, as an

> independent factor, (even if blood sugar and blood pressure and other stuff

> is controlled for) is by itself linked to poor health. So I think that

> overall goal of weight reduction is on the mind of many people.

>

> Losing weight, in my view, requires both a mental and a physical approach.

>

> A mental approach can focus on the nature of consumption itself. This can

> be carried to deeper and deeper levels. In Jainism, the religion of my

> teacher, many people, especially monks fast for some time period and drink

> only water. Some fast for 30 days and even longer. It requires a mental

> attitude. But it is not suitable for everyone.

>

> Weight can also be lost by exercise and exerting will power to not eat

> various foods. But these purely physical methods generally lead to a

> reaction and revolt by the mind and body regaining the weight back.

>

> In choice of food, I have found milled flax seeds, avocados, and nuts to be

> helpful in various stages of my physical and mental needs. There is a lot

> scientific evidence that the raw plant-based fats can favorably effect the

> lipid profile, lower cholesterol, and stabilize blood sugar as these foods

> are low in carbs.

>

> A variety of raw food diets based on plants (or diets where raw food is

> emphasized) can be helpful. I don't think nature intended for us to follow

> a formula for protein, fats, carbs like 80/10/10 or 70/20/10 or

> 40/40/20, etc. This is all man made stuff.

>

> Hope this does not hurt anyone's feelings but my intuition tells me that

> unprocessed raw plant foods eaten whole are good even if the fat content is

> high. Of course, one would not want to overeat the nuts and avocados.

> However, when eating raw plant foods, the body gets good in giving signals

> in terms of how much to consume.

>

> Namaste and love to all Harsha

>

>

>