Raw Food: Impact on Animals, Environment, Poverty, Peace, National Budget, etc

[Guest guest]

Hi, all, and greetings from Afghanistan, where fresh pomegranates are

now in season. I'm a longtime lurker who has benefited greatly from

this group. Erica's message below, about animals, motivated me to

chime in.

 

In her message, she mentioned that her heart is with the animals.

What she raise in that post is my number one " issue " (or perhaps I

should say " opportunity " ) with the living / raw food movement. That

is, raw foodists are at the vanguard of what could and should be the

main solution for so many of the problems that face our communities,

our countries, and our planet. In no particular order, these

interrelated problems include:

 

- Global Climate Change (especially re methane emissions and all the

fossil fuels that go into the animal / fish product supply chain.

How many of us know that, per a 2006 UN investigation, livestock

(animal agriculture) is more responsible for climate change than all

forms of transportation COMBINED?)

 

- Averting Other Environmental Disasters (deforestation, loss of

biodiversity, desertification & topsoil loss / destruction, shrinking

water tables, polluted & death-inducing waterways & oceans, etc.)

 

- Animal Rights (through direct suffering & killing of livestock, or

through the direct / indirect killing of animals in order to support

SAD and DUMB (DestrUction from Materialistic Behavior)

 

- Poverty & Hunger (since across the globe, we use scarce land,

water & energy resources to support animal and seafood products that

are typically destined for the world's relatively rich people… the

world's poor often suffer and die unnecessary deaths. How different

their lives would be if, across the globe, people's diets were based

on organically produced fruits and vegetables?)

 

- Peace (How much history's human conflict has come in reaction to

perceived or actual scarcity of natural resources? Whether it's oil,

land, water, or others, Ghandi's " Live simply so others may simply

live " is more relevant to day than ever – and living simply starts

with diet. Iraq and Darfur are only two examples of today's bloody

manifestation.)

 

- Global Health / Disease (Why don't people talk more about the

likely origins of disease pandemics? Current ones include HIV/AIDS,

SARS, Ebola, Mad Cow Disease, & the Avian Influenza. History is

littered with others, including the 1957-58 Asian flu, the 1968-69

Hong Kong flu, the 1977 swine flu, & the 1918 Spanish Influenza that

killed 20 to 40 million people. Had we not been mucking with

animals, we might have averted countless human, animal, and economic

losses associated with these diseases. Who knows, an 80-10-10 raw

vegan diet might prove helpful to those who are HIV positive. After

all, the chimpanzees of Gombe, Tanzania are all HIV+ and they all

seem to be 80-10-10 RV, and I understand that not one of them has

ever progressed to full-blown AIDS.)

 

- National Budget / Financial Crisis (I'm amazed that so few people

have linked the USA's gloomy long-term financial forecast to SAD and

DUMB. Much of what I've written about above has a hefty financial

price tag. If Hurricane Katrina was in fact exacerbated by climate

change, how much is that costing us? How about Iraq and the global

war on terror? How about the costs associated with our sick, lazy,

environmentally-disengaged population? Just the medical costs

to " support " this lifestyle alone are staggering. Didn't our

President just propose $30 billion more to address HIV/AIDS in

developing countries? If we are worried about our financial futures –

at the level of individual or society – we need to link diet to

these broader issues.)

 

I suspect, and hope, that many on this listserve are aware of these,

and other, larger issues. However, I've seen relatively little

mention of these interrelated environmental, social, and economic

issues. Like Erica, I find that these larger issues are more

persuasive than merely maximizing my own health potential and life

expectancy. These larger issues give me the fortitude to stick to 80-

10-10 RV. These larger issues have helped me to turn others on to a

healthier diet – this approach works, in part, because personal

health maximization is the best " hot-button " for some people, but not

everyone.

 

Besides sharing these thoughts, and encouraging everyone to explore

these topics further by reading the outstanding work of authors like

John Robbins [author of " Diet for a New America " and " Food

Revolution, " and founder of the nonprofit organization Earthsave],

I'd also like to ask:

 

* Who else thinks prominently about the link between diet and these

broader environmental, social, and economic issues?

 

* Who else is active in taking this link to others in your sphere

of influence (friends, family, public awareness campaigns, etc.)?

 

* Who else is active in taking this link to the political domain?

 

* If you don't already do these things, what do you think about

doing so?

 

Thanks, and cheers,

 

Marc

 

 

 

 

No problem. To be honest, my heart is so totally with the animals,

that

I am just so glad to hear your endorsement not just of health, but of

kindness and respect to them in our lives. It is soooo refreshing to

me, and gives me hope. It is a message sorely missing from the living

foods educational network and movement. Matters much more to me.

People

can heal with or without herbs, and with or without supplements,

overall, if they want to. People can also heal on inorganic fruits and

vegetables, and have done so. Certain ways may take longer, etc, and

we

may all have our preferences, so I am just glad there are options. :-)

Self-education is key. For all. There is no replacement for that. A

lot

of people in the alternative health movement still wish to just be

told

what to do..... Erica

[Guest guest]

> Hi, all, and greetings from Afghanistan, where fresh pomegranates are

> now in season. I'm a longtime lurker who has benefited greatly from

> this group. Erica's message below, about animals, motivated me to

> chime in.

 

> main solution for so many of the problems that face our communities,

> our countries, and our planet. In no particular order, these

> interrelated problems include.. Marc

 

 

OH MAN! I INSPIRED THIS E-MAIL???? :-) :-)

One of the GREATEST accomplishments I have achieved as of late, for

SURE, then!

 

Your post was music to my ears. I am shocked and appalled at the total

disregard for all of these topics, and from raw-foodists, no less. Many

of whom will eat vegan, even, but who don't extend this compassion to

any other area where they can effect animal-welfare.

 

Honestly, I am at the point where I have less and less desire to be a

part of this movement. The narcissism and igorance are through the

roof. And capitalism and greed, by a lot of the authors/ " teachers " .

 

Also, and I want other people's opinions on this, there is a growing

trend towards raw animal products. Raw meat. We are heavily debating

this on David Wolfe's " raw myspace " on his site, and honestly, we all

know I love a good debate, but the ignorance from these people is mind-

numbing. Absolutely. This diet is being totally corrupted, and is

growing more selfish and outlandish ($80 lbs of goji berries? My friend

bought them at an asian store for $2 a lb, etc. $40 small blocks

of " cacao butter " ? Please. Meanwhile, nobody even sprouts anymore. Why

eat alfalfa when you can eat chocolate fudge brownies for dinner and 3-

layer " cake " for dessert?? Or 3 handfuls of macadamia nuts for

a " snack " ? <eyeroll>. Please. Oh, and pay $1200 & airfare to spend 2

days learning how to make these party foods that are by and large NOT

what the friggin diet is all about!

 

What's that thud? That's Ann Wigmore ROLLING OVER. It's extremely

disheartening. I've met more flakes, more selfish people, more new-age

hippy dippies who " qualify " their animal killing with the most

RIDICULOUS logic (i.e. the animal spirit is just happy to help you with

your journey, I 'feel' that energy from it, etc.) It's just disgusting.

While I respect David Wolfe, I guess you can expect a lot

more 'experimental flakey types' on his site, in general, surely. (NOT

that I haven't come across some outstanding people). Many raw foodists

loving bragging and fantasizing about being close to nature, but at the

same time are causing death, misery, and global warming. I expect such

heinous blind spots from SAD-dieters, not raw foodists, so it

definitely gets more frustrating!! But if you point out this proven

relationship, YOU are the bad guy.

 

Hell, one raw food " online community " or message board was totally

against adding a section on environmental or animal activism,

since " the word 'activism' implied such negativity " . What a bunch of

bull. Then you find out it's because they who run the site are hooked

on their raw eggs and raw dairy, etc, and that is WHY. Pathetic.

 

Sigh. So many people could learn about the benefits of this diet, but

hey, they won't, because when they see raw chefs dancing around with

their faces painted full of leafs and using names like " Prancing

Grasshopper " , which they insist on being called, it's out the window.

Who would take it seriously?? It's embarrassing! I come from a white-

collar midwestern background. I don't agree with a lot of what that

entails, but I definitely understand how the great majority of people

view such characters. Whether they are right or wrong about it, first

impressions are first impressions. It is what it is.

 

I definitely want to say while I don't personally agree with everything

about 8/1/1, or think it is ideal for every single raw vegan (long term

at least), I think it's great that it has helped so many, and I DO love

that Doug Graham is FULL vegan (I know his wife brings a lot of that to

the table). It's so important! Good for him. It MATTERS. :-)

 

 

I personally plan to write/speak on so much more than raw foods. I'd

rather see people eat 80% raw vegan and 20% cooked vegan than 100% raw

including animals. It's so much healthier. And of course, more

sustainable and ethical.

 

Sorry - This turned into a rant!!

Erica

[Guest guest]

I'm a longtime lurker who has benefited greatly from

> this group. Erica's message below, about animals, motivated me to

> chime in.

 

 

You know, I met one of my best friends ever a few years ago in my 2

week session at Creative Health Institute ( " CHI " ). I stayed for 7

months there, but the thing is, we both weren't taught much at all.

Ridiculously little, actually. She has gone to a lot of the

institutes since, but only because she is starting her own. That is

what brought me to Oregon - I helped design it. It's not open yet,

but soon: www.angelshealthfoodinstitute.com - but the site is still

being tweaked (I find it too confusing right now). Anyways, none of

the institutes teach anything but maybe raw nutrition, and that is

not even done so well. They are not very empowering.... The program

we are opening we consolidated into one week, and I am VERY VERY

proud to say that, as activists, this institute fully covers the

environment, the mind " The Secret " , etc, and ANIMALS. One class is

the Eating video & discussion, etc, another is EARTHLINGS!!! (and

surely, QUITE a discussion). We are dubbing it the " Life

Transformation Week " . How powerful is that? In one week people will

learn so much more than they learn in months at other places. :-)

Very exciting. So very needed in our society. :-) :-) Erica

[Guest guest]

Glad that you ranted, Erica. You raised more excellent points.

 

RE SPROUTING: I, for one, still sprout! I like broccoli sprouts and

sunflower greens, and indoor gardening in general. (I don't have any

outdoor garden space...) There is even evidence that playing with

dirt may bring psychological and physical benefits – see

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6509781.stm.

 

Intuitively, this makes sense, as we become more involved in the

rhythms of nature. Along these lines, when / where I can (and

Afghanistan is not the place!) I practice vermiculture, i.e., taking

in worms as pets. These worms are clean, quiet, fun-loving (OK,

maybe I'm projecting a bit here :-), they stay in their bin, and they

love my veggie and fruit scraps! I have practiced vermiculture even

from within my teenie-weenie urban apartment.

 

GRAHAM AN ENVIRONMENTALIST? I, too, am happy to know that Dr. Doug is

a vegan who seems to recognize the link between diet, personal health

optimization, and broader social, environmental, animal rights, and

economic issues. In fact, on his website, his biography mentions

that he is on the board of Earthsave International.

http://www.foodnsport.com/joomla/index.php?

option=com_content & task=view & id=122 & Itemid=78

I wish Dr. Graham would be more outspoken about the social,

environmental, animal rights, and economic dimensions to food choices

in his books and other communications. Of course, I wish that I,

myself, would be more vocal about this interconnectivity... given the

magnitude of our challenges -- our crisis -- we cannot overstate that

food choices are a main driver of societal ills.

 

VACATIONS & COMMERCIALISM: That people spend $1,200 plus airfare to

spend 2 days learning how to make fancy raw food concoctions is

amazing to me, too. I quickly came to enjoy plain fruit mono-meals

and green salads.

 

I don't mind that people make money from the raw food industry, if

done in a clean way. In fact, I think that the movement would

benefit from an exponential multiplication of clean, raw food

entrepreneurs of various sorts. I just wish that, as often as

possible through such retreats and embedded into each book or product

sold, that the broader social, environmental and economic issues are

mentioned.

 

I also wish that raw food customers would consider the alternatives

( " opportunity costs, " to use the economic term) to spending their

time and money loosely. That is, we should all reflect and ask

ourselves questions such as:

 

-- How do I EARN my income? Through my work at my job, am I

contributing to solving, or exaserbating, the social, environmental,

animal rights, security, and economic challenges we face?

 

-- How do I SPEND my income? Does my spending reflect an awareness

of these global issues, since every dollar I spend is a vote? Do I

buy " green " and socially desirable products and services? Do I

contribute to worthy causes, such as Earthsave or other nonprofits?

Am I overly materialistic in my desires and perceived needs?

 

-- How do I spend my TIME? I would ask all of the above questions

about time, our most precious resource of all. We could volunteer

for national / international nonprofit organizations, and/or we could

volunteer right in our own community.

 

Even on the limited grounds of personal health maximization, donating

our time, energy, and/or money to worthy causes is one of the best

investments we could possibly make.

 

MORE THOUGHTS ON VACATIONS: my vacations (and my work, which often

blend together, fortunately and by design) have been so spiritually

rewarding. In my prior email, I mentioned the chimpanzees of Gombe

in Western Tanzania. My work took me there for, among other things,

a conference on population, health, and the environment. I then

spent the weekend as a tourist in Gombe Park, where I slept in Jane

Goodall's original research hut. Climbing up and down the steep

forested mountains, searching for the chimps, was great exercise,

filled with keen anticipation.

 

When we found the " Jane Goodall " chimpanzees, watching them eat,

sleep, play, and otherwise interact was a beautiful and life-altering

experience. It sharpened the focus of my professional work and

purpose in life. I felt guilty knowing that human activity

(poaching / bushmeat, deforestation to fuel our cooking / dietary

habits and excessive materialism, etc.) is the driver behind the

chimpanzees' shrinking population. I felt guilty that, the world

over, my own species is wreaking havoc on other species in similar

ways, direct and indirect.

 

I also felt a ray of hope, because I saw first-hand that these

chimpanzees, who share more than 99+ percent of our genetic material,

absolutely THRIVE on a diet mainly consisting of ripe, organic

fruits, plus ample fresh air, rest, exercise, and social

connectivity. Never has the human " problem " and " solution " been so

clear to me.

 

THOSE are the kinds of vacations that I wish people would consider,

because they benefit the vacationer and the very worthy, developing

country recipients of the vacationer's money.

 

In fairness, I should also divulge that I am also dismayed at many of

my professional colleagues, such as the ones who attended the

population-health-environment conference in Tanzania. Most of these

people are absolutely brilliant at what they do, and what they do is

critically important. However, many of them discuss development

issues over steaks, hamburgers and ice cream.

 

To summarize (and, like Erica, I must apologies for my own rant!):

 

--- Why can't more raw foodists understand and fully embrace the

social, environmental, animal rights, security, and economic issues

related to food?

 

--- And why can't the professional in these arenas understand and

embrace raw food?

 

Thanks to anyone who shares thoughts on these topics.

 

Marc

[Guest guest]

Good for you, Erica! Glad that you're putting raw foods into the

bigger context!

 

Marc

 

rawfood , " Erica " <schoolofrawk wrote:

 

The program

> we are opening we consolidated into one week, and I am VERY VERY

> proud to say that, as activists, this institute fully covers the

> environment, the mind " The Secret " , etc, and ANIMALS. One class is

> the Eating video & discussion, etc, another is EARTHLINGS!!! (and

> surely, QUITE a discussion). We are dubbing it the " Life

> Transformation Week " . How powerful is that? In one week people will

> learn so much more than they learn in months at other places. :-)

> Very exciting. So very needed in our society. :-) :-) Erica

>