Peaceful Communication [Should] (WAS: Rights vs. Privileges and Immunities )

[Guest guest]

Erica, I see that you have taken personally some of what I have written,

expressed below.

 

I am happy to discuss what is real. Would you be willing to reconstruct, if

you are able, what you have written below so that it expresses YOUR feelings

and perhaps YOUR needs?

 

And again, I commend you to www.cnvc.org, there is much for you there, if

you will receive it.

 

Best,

Elchanan

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Erica

Saturday, October 20, 2007 2:09 PM

rawfood

[Raw Food] Re: Peaceful Communication [should] (WAS: Rights vs.

" Privileges and Immunities " )

 

 

Elchanan - I hope you are open to discussing the issues that continually

arise concerning your posts - pertaining to the condescending undertones

that many have noticed and commented upon. I do think we have a very

educated and active group here, and I for one appreciate all the different

points of view. I do think that chronic condescension towards others can be

indicative of either anger or insecurity or both, and so maybe we can have a

healthy discussion about that as well, then? Erica

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

> I am happy to discuss what is real.

 

Elchanan, how is your opinion real and the observations of others not

so?

 

Erica

[Guest guest]

> Erica, I see that you have taken personally some of what I have

written,

> expressed below.

 

At least 3 people have already emailed me personally to say that they

don't think my posts are riddled with anger. More than three people

have posted that they do find a lot of your posts condescending. I do

feel as if I'm being targetted here, and unnecessarily so. Elchanan,

maybe we could peacefully and openly discuss what it is about my posts

that you find threatening. I am not threatened by you and agree to

disagree about certain things since they all can lead to the health we

are all seeking here. Different views and paths are what make such

groups so educational. Enjoy your weekend. Erica

[Guest guest]

Erica,

 

I personally have found your posts to be really intelligent and

informative. I have only been in the group for a few weeks but have

not read a single post from you that was riddled with any kind of

anger. You obviously care about other people and want to help

others and it shows. Thanks.

 

Susanne

 

rawfood , " Erica " <schoolofrawk wrote:

>

>

> > Erica, I see that you have taken personally some of what I have

> written,

> > expressed below.

>

> At least 3 people have already emailed me personally to say that

they

> don't think my posts are riddled with anger. More than three

people

> have posted that they do find a lot of your posts condescending. I

do

> feel as if I'm being targetted here, and unnecessarily so.

Elchanan,

> maybe we could peacefully and openly discuss what it is about my

posts

> that you find threatening. I am not threatened by you and agree to

> disagree about certain things since they all can lead to the

health we

> are all seeking here. Different views and paths are what make such

> groups so educational. Enjoy your weekend. Erica

>

[Guest guest]

> Erica,

>

> I personally have found your posts to be really intelligent and

> informative. I have only been in the group for a few weeks but have

> not read a single post from you that was riddled with any kind of

> anger. You obviously care about other people and want to help

> others and it shows. Thanks.

>

> Susanne

 

 

Susanne, thank you so much! :-) Erica

[Guest guest]

Elchanan,

When I read your post, it sounded exactly like so many of my

mother-in-law's letters to me!! She has helped me so much over the past

6 years with her nonviolent communication skills that she had learned

from Marshall Rosenberg! Both my father-in-law and mother-in-law worked

closely with Marshall for years, and Marian Moore helped to edit his

book called Nonviolent Communication: A language of life. Of course,

she sent me a copy of it, and she is mentioned in the " acknowledgements. "

I would send letters to try to resolve conflicts with my

best friend, and I would pass them by her ears first!! She would always

correct my language, and it always worked to help save my

relationships!!! They are just wonderful ways to communicate!!

Lynne

>

> ___

>

> I wish to encourage you to explore something called " Nonviolent

> Communication " (NVC), www.cnvc.org. Words like " should " , " ought " , and the

> like imply demands/expectations. Your brief statement, quoted above,

> suggests that there is something wrong with a person who does not

> respond in

> this way.

>

> Now consider an alternative:

>

> When I observe many things happening in America today, I feel anger,

> because

> I need to know that I and those who come after me remain safe and free.

>

> Or this, taking a step forward in one's own internal processing:

>

> When I observe XXX happening in America today, I feel a deep sense of

> sadness and fear. I wonder what my life and the lives of those close to me

> will be like during the years ahead.

>

> I could continue. The point is that in these examples, " I " am

> expressing on

> my own behalf only, without stating or implying anything about what others

> might be doing, should do, or the like.

>

> Make sense?

>

> Suggestion/Request: Whenever you hear yourself say (or are about to say)

> " should " , pause and reflect instead of speaking/writing. Ask yourself what

> YOU really wish to express for and about yourself. I know that I would

> feel

> a much more clear sense of connection with you if you were to do this at

> times.

>

> And to respond directly to your question, much about the way in which you

> express yourself, not only in that post but continually, conveys anger to

> me. And of course, I recognize that anger is only secondary;

> underneath the

> anger, I imagine you must have many, many feelings of hurt/pain,

> powerlessness, disconnection, disappointment, and so forth that you have

> never found a constructive way to express and resolve. I do not mean this

> disparagingly at all. Rather, I would say that almost everyone is in the

> same boat, more or less. My intention here is simply to pen the door to

> discussing it, that's all.

>

> Best,

> Elchanan

>

> _____

>

> rawfood <rawfood%40>

> [rawfood <rawfood%40>] On

> Behalf Of

> Erica

> Friday, October 19, 2007 11:48 AM

> rawfood <rawfood%40>

> [Raw Food] Re: Rights vs. " Privileges and Immunities " (WAS: North

> American Union: New Money [NAU])

>

> >>> I only wish for you that you will come to separate your thinking.

> which

> is gaining clarity, from your anger, which obscures what lies before

> you..

>

> Elchanan, that's nice, but what about the below post ndicates that I am

> really " angry " . There are things that people should be angry about; if

> they

> are not angry, they are not paying attention. But the below post of

> mine is

> not super-angry at all. It's a good observation, imo. Erica

>

> But just being " born " here, even if you are in the country for a day and

> your parents are here illegally, hardly should make anyone a citizen,

> worthy

> of being catered to by our government with money that we don't have for

> Americans.

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Lynne,

>

> your description above conjures an image of everyone tip

> toeing around each others egos afraid to say anything

> remotely challenging. All in order to avoid

> certain 'emotions'! We have been doing this for centuries,

> it is called 'good manners'. It's bo**ocks. Sadly, it is

> also a major barrier to truth and honesty with each other.

> How can we be truly close to each other, Love each other

> while being false and courteous. We always come up with new

> ways to be offended as old avenues disappear. We always

> will.

>

>

> I'd rather live in an honest world than a good-mannered one.

>

> --

> the kneeling fool

 

This whole post was wonderful. So true, too. There is a GREAT BOOK

called " Radical Honesty " on this. Phenomenal!

Erica

>

[Guest guest]

On Monday 22 October 2007, Lynne Moore wrote:

>    Elchanan,

>          When I read your post, it sounded exactly like

> so many of my mother-in-law's letters to me!!  She has

> helped me so much over the past 6 years with her

> nonviolent communication skills that she had learned from

> Marshall Rosenberg!  Both my father-in-law and

> mother-in-law worked closely with Marshall for years, and

> Marian Moore helped to edit his book called Nonviolent

> Communication:  A language of life.  Of course, she sent

> me a copy of it, and she is mentioned in the

> " acknowledgements. " I would send letters to try to

> resolve conflicts with my best friend, and I would pass

> them by her ears first!!  She would always correct my

> language, and it always worked to help save my

> relationships!!!  They are just wonderful ways to

> communicate!! Lynne

 

Lynne,

 

your description above conjures an image of everyone tip

toeing around each others egos afraid to say anything

remotely challenging. All in order to avoid

certain 'emotions'! We have been doing this for centuries,

it is called 'good manners'. It's bo**ocks. Sadly, it is

also a major barrier to truth and honesty with each other.

How can we be truly close to each other, Love each other

while being false and courteous. We always come up with new

ways to be offended as old avenues disappear. We always

will.

 

My father taught me as a 3 or 4 year old, " sticks and stones

may break my bones but calling names can't hurt me " .

 

I used to chant it to kids who disturbed me in some way with

name calling, all the while being upset by those remarks

that can't hurt me! LOL I didn't understand then of course.

hehe, in fact what I probably learned from those experiences

is that words CAN hurt me!

 

I have found that emotions can teach us a great deal, they

are there to be experienced, they are about being alive, as

they are happening, right NOW.

 

I'd rather live in an honest world than a good-mannered one.

 

--

the kneeling fool