Frozen Fruit?

[Guest guest]

This " information " is simply incorrect, or at best misleading. There is

substantive damage to the fiber, many nutrients come out of solution, some

are just plain damaged by freezing. And the content of the fruit is exposed

first and foremost to air, causing oxidation long before you eat any.

 

Elchanan

 

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Laurie

Sunday, November 11, 2007 9:06 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Frozen Fruit?

 

 

GardenGreetings@ <GardenGreetings%40aol.com> aol.com wrote:

 

> ... so is the process of freezing alone something

that damages food?

 

No. The cells may be broken open by the forming ice crystals and

the food may become mushy; but it is more efficient to digest because

the cells' contents are exposed to digestive chemicals.

Lowering the temperature SLOWS down chemical reactions by a factor

of 2 for every 10°C or 18°F.

High temperatures however break molecules with the increased energy,

and those molecular fragments recombine to form thousands of unknown

chemicals with unknown properties. See Maillard reaction:

http://en.wikipedia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maillard_reaction>

..org/wiki/Maillard_reaction

 

Laurie

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well, Elchanan, for many frozen fruit can either supplement their raw diet at

times OR they can eat cooked or processed or even non-vegan garbage. Frozen is

not the same as fresh, but it is 99% healthier than anything else, and there

really ISN'T solid information on the matter. At best, there is contradicting

information about it. I know nobody who lives on frozen " raw " foods, or eats the

majority of their foods that way. I know many who do some, and it really helps

them stay raw, especially considering where some of us live & the availability

of food in that area.

 

Point is, some have reversed " terminal diseases " on inorganic raw foods,

meaning pesticides, irradiation and all. They still got better. It's not ideal,

just like freezing isn't, but to paint it up like frozen organic berries are

totally damaged is just a shame. Nobody will go raw or eat healthier if they

think it's that impossible, my God.

 

- Erica

 

Elchanan <Elchanan wrote:

This " information " is simply incorrect, or at best misleading. There is

substantive damage to the fiber, many nutrients come out of solution, some

are just plain damaged by freezing. And the content of the fruit is exposed

first and foremost to air, causing oxidation long before you eat any.

 

Elchanan

 

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

Laurie

Sunday, November 11, 2007 9:06 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Frozen Fruit?

 

 

GardenGreetings@ aol.com wrote:

 

> ... so is the process of freezing alone something

that damages food?

 

No. The cells may be broken open by the forming ice crystals and

the food may become mushy; but it is more efficient to digest because

the cells' contents are exposed to digestive chemicals.

Lowering the temperature SLOWS down chemical reactions by a factor

of 2 for every 10°C or 18°F.

High temperatures however break molecules with the increased energy,

and those molecular fragments recombine to form thousands of unknown

chemicals with unknown properties. See Maillard reaction:

http://en.wikipedia

..org/wiki/Maillard_reaction

 

Laurie

[Guest guest]

Elchanan wrote:

 

> This " information " is simply incorrect, or at best misleading. There

is substantive damage to the fiber, many nutrients come out of solution,

some are just plain damaged by freezing. And the content of the fruit is

exposed first and foremost to air, causing oxidation long before you eat

any.

 

So, you are prepared to talk about biochemistry?

PLEASE cite some scientifically-credible citations supporting your

claims, and a rational argument based on these citations.

 

Laurie

--

Scientifically-credible info on human diet:

http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html

news:alt.food.vegan.science

[Guest guest]

School Of Rawk wrote:

 

> At best, there is contradicting information about it.

There may be " contradicting information " about it in

nutribabble circles, but physical chemistry is pretty well known by now.

You will note NOthing is given to support the detractor's claims.

 

Laurie

 

-

Scientifically-credible info on human diet:

http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html

news:alt.food.vegan.science

[Guest guest]

I would agree with you, I was just indicating there are 2 sides (I side with

you). Nutribabble is a great term. I have found that this group promotes a lot

of unsupportable opinion as absolute fact, and rare, extremist opinion at best.

Erica

 

Laurie < wrote: School Of Rawk wrote:

 

> At best, there is contradicting information about it.

There may be " contradicting information " about it in

nutribabble circles, but physical chemistry is pretty well known by now.

You will note NOthing is given to support the detractor's claims.

 

Laurie

 

-

Scientifically-credible info on human diet:

http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html

news:alt.food.vegan.science

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well, just look under any ordinary microscope, Laurie. I mean, this isn't a

difficult undertaking or research project.

Elchanan

 

PS I call myself " Elchanan " , not " the detractor " , if you would be so kind.

_____

 

Laurie

Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:24 AM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Frozen Fruit?

 

 

Elchanan wrote:

 

> This " information " is simply incorrect, or at best misleading. There

is substantive damage to the fiber, many nutrients come out of solution,

some are just plain damaged by freezing. And the content of the fruit is

exposed first and foremost to air, causing oxidation long before you eat

any.

 

So, you are prepared to talk about biochemistry?

PLEASE cite some scientifically-credible citations supporting your

claims, and a rational argument based on these citations.

 

Laurie

<http://geo./serv?s=97359714/grpId=5520395/grpspId=1705015482/msgId

=36017/stime=1194978230/nc1=4836044/nc2=4025338/nc3=4990219>

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Well, just look under any ordinary microscope, Laurie. I mean, this isn't a

difficult undertaking or research project.

Elchanan

 

 

Can you actually see nutrients spilling out under the microscope........? I

don't think so.

 

Erica

[Guest guest]

Elchanan wrote:

 

> Well, just look under any ordinary microscope, Laurie. I mean, this

isn't a difficult undertaking or research project.

> ... is substantive damage to the fiber, many nutrients come out of

solution, some are just plain damaged by freezing.

 

Put up or shut up time!

 

What " substantive damage to the fiber " is done; be specific.

Which " nutrients come out of solution " and how?

Which nutrients " are just plain damaged by freezing " and describe

the damage specifically.

Please provide credible scientific studies to support your crackpot

scientific claims, or try to be honest enough to politely withdraw

them. You do want to be seen as honest, right?

 

Laurie

 

--

Scientifically-credible info on human diet:

http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html

news:alt.food.vegan.science

[Guest guest]

I've been reading but not posting to the group because the atmosphere

is one that seems combative. Maybe that's just the way I perceive it. I

hope so.

 

Thawed frozen fruit " leaks " liquid. I don't like (never have) to

eat/drink anything cold so if I am obliged to use frozen fruit, I thaw

it first. The taste isn't as good as fresh. The texture suffers. It is

logical to me (not scientific proof but logical) that if taste and

texture aren't as good, nutrition wouldn't be, either.

 

This will be my last post here. I can make better use of my time than

to read messages that aren't encouraging.

 

Tommie

http://reallyrawfood.com

 

rawfood , School Of Rawk <schoolofrawk wrote:

>

> Well, just look under any ordinary microscope, Laurie. I mean, this

isn't a

> difficult undertaking or research project.

> Elchanan

>

>

> Can you actually see nutrients spilling out under the

microscope........? I don't think so.

>

> Erica

>

[Guest guest]

Depends upon the microscope ... and the observer!

 

Elchanan

_____

 

School Of Rawk

Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:19 PM

rawfood

RE: [Raw Food] Frozen Fruit?

 

 

Well, just look under any ordinary microscope, Laurie. I mean, this isn't a

difficult undertaking or research project.

Elchanan

 

Can you actually see nutrients spilling out under the microscope........? I

don't think so.

 

Erica

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

That would explain the mushiness after thawing. ~ Claudia

 

 

rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

>

> Depends upon the microscope ... and the observer!

>

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> School Of Rawk

> Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:19 PM

> rawfood

> RE: [Raw Food] Frozen Fruit?

>

>

> Well, just look under any ordinary microscope, Laurie. I mean, this

isn't a

> difficult undertaking or research project.

> Elchanan

>

> Can you actually see nutrients spilling out under the

microscope........? I

> don't think so.

>

> Erica

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Elchanan

I am new here, but I would be interested in documentation rather than

this back-and-forth of non-informational comments.

 

So for those of us who don't have a microscope (and I imagine there

are many) would you share your observations from looking through your

microscope which led you to make the comment in the first place?

 

Thank you,

 

Rachel

 

rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

>

> Depends upon the microscope ... and the observer!

>

> Elchanan

> _____

>

> School Of Rawk

> Tuesday, November 13, 2007 3:19 PM

> rawfood

> RE: [Raw Food] Frozen Fruit?

>

>

> Well, just look under any ordinary microscope, Laurie. I mean, this

isn't a

> difficult undertaking or research project.

> Elchanan

>

> Can you actually see nutrients spilling out under the

microscope........? I

> don't think so.

>

> Erica

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Tommie,

I remember when I first joined this group you posted quite a bit. Over time I

have missed your posts because even if y ou disagree with something it was

positive. I agree with you about the atmosphere. It only takes a few to ruin it

for all. I just hope people aren't this rude combative to everyone they

encounter

 

Tommie <jerushy wrote:

I've been reading but not posting to the group because the atmosphere

is one that seems combative. Maybe that's just the way I perceive it. I

hope so.

 

Thawed frozen fruit " leaks " liquid. I don't like (never have) to

eat/drink anything cold so if I am obliged to use frozen fruit, I thaw

it first. The taste isn't as good as fresh. The texture suffers. It is

logical to me (not scientific proof but logical) that if taste and

texture aren't as good, nutrition wouldn't be, either.

 

This will be my last post here. I can make better use of my time than

to read messages that aren't encouraging.

 

Tommie

http://reallyrawfood.com

 

rawfood , School Of Rawk <schoolofrawk wrote:

>

> Well, just look under any ordinary microscope, Laurie. I mean, this

isn't a

> difficult undertaking or research project.

> Elchanan

>

>

> Can you actually see nutrients spilling out under the

microscope........? I don't think so.

>

> Erica

>

 

 

 

 

 

 

Terry Lynn Bakhtiari

May God bless you

Today and always.

www.terrywithpcos.blogspot.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Be a better sports nut! Let your teams follow you with Mobile. Try it now.

 

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Tommie,

 

I really appreciate your post. I wish the atmosphere was more pleasant here,

so I understand where you are coming from. Sometimes I think that if more of us

compassionate, pleasant people spoke up...this could be a better group.

 

I agree that the thawed texture and flavor of frozen fruits should be an

indicator that some damage has been done. Thanks again for sharing )

 

~Sarah

 

Tommie <jerushy (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote:

I've been reading but not posting to the group because the atmosphere

is one that seems combative. Maybe that's just the way I perceive it. I

hope so.

 

Thawed frozen fruit " leaks " liquid. I don't like (never have) to

eat/drink anything cold so if I am obliged to use frozen fruit, I thaw

it first. The taste isn't as good as fresh. The texture suffers. It is

logical to me (not scientific proof but logical) that if taste and

texture aren't as good, nutrition wouldn't be, either.

 

This will be my last post here. I can make better use of my time than

to read messages that aren't encouraging.

 

Tommie

http://reallyrawfoo d.com

 

 

Sarah

 

 

Get easy, one-click access to your favorites. Make your homepage.

 

 

[Guest guest]

You mean the observer? :)

 

_____

 

rawfood [rawfood ] On Behalf Of

claudia

Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:50 PM

rawfood

Re: [Raw Food] Frozen Fruit?

 

 

That would explain the mushiness after thawing. ~ Claudia

 

rawfood@ <rawfood%40> .com,

" Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

>

> Depends upon the microscope ... and the observer!

>

> Elchanan

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

.... all these replies have been interesting ... and thought provoking ...

 

after thinking about it ... it seems to me that frozen fruit is

something one would frequently encounter in nature ... and i can't

think of any omnivorous or herbivorous animals who would naturally

turn their noses up at fruit frozen on the tree (or vine or bush) ...

lost of fruits (like persimmons) and veggies (like brussel sprouts)

have an improved flavor after a light freeze ...

 

i do understand that when anything freezes the cell walls burst (the

water inside them expands as it freezes) ... this is why water leaches

out of frozen fruits and why they're mushy when thawed ... but this is

a " mechanical injury " to the fruit - like what a blender would do ...

not a chemical injury as is caused by heating ...

 

elchanan, i don't follow your reasoning that fiber can be damaged by

freezing ... again, freezing is a mechanical injury rather than

chemical ... perhaps you could better explain why you believe fiber is

so harmed by freezing ...

 

lisa

 

rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote:

>

> This " information " is simply incorrect, or at best misleading. There is

> substantive damage to the fiber, many nutrients come out of

solution, some

> are just plain damaged by freezing. And the content of the fruit is

exposed

> first and foremost to air, causing oxidation long before you eat any.

[Guest guest]

-

gardengreetings

>after thinking about it ... it seems to me that frozen fruit is

something one would frequently encounter in nature ... and i can't

think of any omnivorous or herbivorous animals who would naturally

turn their noses up at fruit frozen on the tree (or vine or bush) ...

lost of fruits (like persimmons) and veggies (like brussel sprouts)

have an improved flavor after a light freeze ...

 

I've never seen fruit frozen on a tree, even when I lived somewhere where it

snowed in summer. If there was a frost, it would damage the fruit - bruising

or burning it - if it was still on the plant. I have seen oranges and other

citrus fruit in my fridge, which has a bizarre tendency towards freezing

items near the back, even on the least cool setting, and they're just

horrible - the insides turn white and either hard or mushy, and lose all

taste; the outsides end up with burnt patches, and sometimes the whole fruit

dehydrates, leaving a crispy shell and not much else.

 

I did put a young coconut in the freezer, to stop it " going off " while I

figured out what to do with it - it had been split open with an axe after I

drained the water out of it, because I didn't want to heat it in the oven at

200 degrees Celcius, as was recommended by the label on it. Interestingly,

freezing had the same effect on the husk as heat was said to - the halves

split in half again. The flesh went hard (as I expected) and kind of

tasteless, kind of like dried coconut. Not sure what it will be like when I

thaw it out.

 

I've also made some " banana milk " icecreams for my son - just bananas

blended with some water, and put in icecream moulds. He hasn't had one yet,

but I'll be interested to see how they turn out ) He seems to have an

aversion to anything in less than its original state - chopping into

bite-sized pieces is as much as he'll tolerate.

 

Just what I've observed )

 

Caron