Guest guest Posted November 17, 2007 Report Share Posted November 17, 2007 I agree completely, Bryan. Anyone can explore and discover the distinction between fresh and not-fresh through simple experimentation, as you describe. There is no need for anyone blindly to believe anyone else. There may be, however, a need to discuss trusting our own sensory awareness, placing our awareness above those hallowed " studies " that some hold so dear. I would add that anyone can observe, in Nature, how other large mammals approach old and/or frozen foods. Behaviors are quite consistent in this regard. So experimentation and observation, either or both lead us to the same conclusion here. Best, Elchanan _____ bryan_yamamoto Saturday, November 17, 2007 7:48 AM rawfood [Raw Food] Re: Frozen Fruit? Hi GardenGreetings, I will use frozen fruit from time to time. I buy bananas in large volumes, and sometimes I can't get through them all before they start to go overripe. So I will freeze those bananas, and make banana ice cream or a smoothie from them. I certainly prefer fresh over frozen. Elchanan is correct about the nature of frozen fruits. Why look for external authorities, when you can do this simple experiment: Take a fresh strawberry, and a frozen strawberry. Let the frozen strawberry completely thaw. Now, eat both strawberries. Let your senses tell you which strawberry has more nutrients and value to your body. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote: > > Yes, I experience similarly, I really only " enjoy " eating those refrigerated > and frozen bananas in some altered, processed state. And yes, this signals > our sensory awareness that we are no longer eating an ideal food for us. > > I also share the same about buying bananas, at times, and I've found that > I'm much happier when I buy more frequently, in smaller quantities. > > Part of the problem we experience with refrigerating and freezing arises > simply because we may tend to wait " until the last moment " before putting > the bananas into the cooler in the first place. Hope does seem to spring > eternal among us humans!! :) > > Best, > Elchanan > _____ > > Jen > Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:41 AM > rawfood > [Raw Food] Re: Frozen Fruit? > > > Although I'll put bananas in the fridge or freezer if they start getting too > ripe, I'll only use them for banana whips (ice cream) or smoothies or > something where they're in a different form than I would normally eat them. > I find that they taste different even after just being in the refrigerator, > and I don't like the taste, by themselves, so I'll use them for those > things. I don't know if this has anything to do with much damage to the > fruit, being only in the refrigerator, but they definitely taste different, > not nearly as good, even when allowed to reach room temperature. I can't > buy bananas by the case for this reason, because they ripen faster than I > can eat them all I need someone to help me eat them > > Jen > > rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan@> wrote: > > Still, I've often seen bananas turn colors in the freezer and come out > tasting quite different than when they went in, a clear sign of damage. > Much has to do with how the bananas are packaged going into the freezer, the > temperature and crowding in the freezer, and the ripeness of the bananas > before freezing. > <http://geo./serv? s=97359714/grpId=5520395/grpspId=1705015482/msgId > =36118/stime=1195310463/nc1=4763757/nc2=4834085/nc3=4840951> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 18, 2007 Report Share Posted November 18, 2007 The freezer ony slows down the riping process not stop it. I think I read somewhere that bananas ripe very quickly anywhere. One week to 10 days in the freezer max then they are rotten. rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote: > > Yes, I experience similarly, I really only " enjoy " eating those refrigerated > and frozen bananas in some altered, processed state. And yes, this signals > our sensory awareness that we are no longer eating an ideal food for us. > > I also share the same about buying bananas, at times, and I've found that > I'm much happier when I buy more frequently, in smaller quantities. > > Part of the problem we experience with refrigerating and freezing arises > simply because we may tend to wait " until the last moment " before putting > the bananas into the cooler in the first place. Hope does seem to spring > eternal among us humans!! :) > > Best, > Elchanan > _____ > > Jen > Saturday, November 17, 2007 6:41 AM > rawfood > [Raw Food] Re: Frozen Fruit? > > > Although I'll put bananas in the fridge or freezer if they start getting too > ripe, I'll only use them for banana whips (ice cream) or smoothies or > something where they're in a different form than I would normally eat them. > I find that they taste different even after just being in the refrigerator, > and I don't like the taste, by themselves, so I'll use them for those > things. I don't know if this has anything to do with much damage to the > fruit, being only in the refrigerator, but they definitely taste different, > not nearly as good, even when allowed to reach room temperature. I can't > buy bananas by the case for this reason, because they ripen faster than I > can eat them all I need someone to help me eat them > > Jen > > rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan@> wrote: > > Still, I've often seen bananas turn colors in the freezer and come out > tasting quite different than when they went in, a clear sign of damage. > Much has to do with how the bananas are packaged going into the freezer, the > temperature and crowding in the freezer, and the ripeness of the bananas > before freezing. > <http://geo./serv? s=97359714/grpId=5520395/grpspId=1705015482/msgId > =36118/stime=1195310463/nc1=4763757/nc2=4834085/nc3=4840951> > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 Elchanan wrote: Erica> Can you actually see nutrients spilling out under the microscope........? I don't think so. Elchanan> Depends upon the microscope ... and the observer! Are you now claiming that fructose can be SEEN under the microscope; evidence please. What type of microscope is this? If the " observer " influences the observation, that ain't science. Laurie Scientifically-credible info on human diet: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 Tommie wrote: > I can make better use of my time than to read messages > that aren't encouraging. Encouraging people to present truthful, accurate statements about scientific principles is useful to some people, but honesty IS a personal choice. Laurie -- Scientifically-credible info on human diet: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 25, 2007 Report Share Posted November 25, 2007 The observer always influences the results: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect You asked about the word " acerbic " in another thread and implied it was mischosen. It's a real word meaning " sour or astringent in taste " http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/acerbic -Erin http://www.zenpawn.com/vegblog - Laurie rawfood Sunday, November 25, 2007 11:03 AM Re: [Raw Food] Frozen Fruit? Elchanan wrote: Erica> Can you actually see nutrients spilling out under the microscope........? I don't think so. Elchanan> Depends upon the microscope ... and the observer! Are you now claiming that fructose can be SEEN under the microscope; evidence please. What type of microscope is this? If the " observer " influences the observation, that ain't science. Laurie Scientifically-credible info on human diet: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 gardengreetings wrote: > ... elchanan, i don't follow your reasoning that fiber can be damaged by freezing ... He presents NO " reasoning " , just unsubstantiated erroneous statements about scientific topics; yet, he could not pass an 8th grade science quiz. This kind of erroneous nonsense propagated by raw foodists has cast a heavy pall over the 'movement', if one exists. Raw Foodists are considered the weirdos amongst, get this, -other diet cultists- due to this idiotic nutribabble; like 'living enzymes " , 'pre-digested foods', 'superfoods', ... Laurie -- Scientifically-credible info on human diet: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Elchanan wrote: > ... we are designed to eat FRESH, whole, ripe, raw, organic or better fruits and tender greens. Please, present you data regarding the " design " to " eat " " tender greens " . > Frozen is no longer fresh, any more than cooked is no longer fresh. (Though the damage may be less.) The damage is DIFFERENT; try some physical chemistry. STOP making science up. Laurie -- Scientifically-credible info on human diet: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Elchanan wrote: > ... and dates toward 30%, ... 20-21% according to USDA nutrient database. But what's a 100% error among friends? Get Jerry Story's DMAK http://freshmeat.net/projects/dmak/ > ... some heavier fiber ... What do you mean: weighs more, tougher, more rigid, ??? Try to learn how to speak Engleesh. > In other words, they are more dense. Density, in real science, refers to wright/unit volume. Try to learn how to speak Engleesh. > So the damage to bananas and dates (and several other denser fruits, such as durian) from freezing is considerably less than that to most fruits. You have FAILED TO PRESENT -ANY- EVIDENCE THAT ANY " DAMAGE " OCCURS. > Data based upon information from The 80/10/10 Success Guide, ... Graham and Masters can not understand 5th grade arithmetic! Their rap is fraudulent. http://ecologos.org/dg.htm Laurie -- Scientifically-credible info on human diet: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 bryan_yamamoto wrote: > Let the frozen strawberry completely thaw. Now, eat both strawberries. Let your senses tell you which strawberry has more nutrients and value to your body. HOW does calcium 'taste', how does iron 'taste' how does selenium 'taste', and how do you know when you get enough? You are telling a lie, based on your pre-supposed belief system. Laurie -- Scientifically-credible info on human diet: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Elchanan wrote: > ... placing our awareness above those hallowed " studies " that some hold so dear. You have made still-unsupported claims about " damage " to nutrients during freezing; I have challenged you REPEATEDLY to present the evidence supporting this claim. How about some " hallowed " studies " " instead of your own made up crap? YOU have FAILED to even =try= to substantiate your false claims. You LIE about science, you have NO intellectual integrity, you are a food fraud, an embarrassment to both the raw food movement and the human species. Laurie -- Scientifically-credible info on human diet: http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html news:alt.food.vegan.science Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Laurie, Laurie... " The raw food movement " ...OK, but " an embarrassment " to the whole human species? Whew...a bit harsh don cha think? Especially during the holdiay season...Can we get just a little bit of charity until say, just after the first of the year? Tim >>>Elchanan wrote: You LIE about science, you have NO intellectual integrity, you are a food fraud, an embarrassment to both the raw food movement and the human species. Laurie<<< Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Can we all chip in and buy Laurie a seat in the next Dale Carnegie course on human relations? She has some good points, but a rather toxic delivery. Also no one owes you the time to argue with you, friendly debate is acceptable, but no one is interested in debating someone caustic, sarcastic and insulting... just my opinion ? > You have made still-unsupported claims about " damage " to nutrients during freezing; I have challenged you REPEATEDLY to present the evidence supporting this claim. How about some " hallowed " studies " " instead of your own made up crap? > YOU have FAILED to even =try= to substantiate your false claims. > You LIE about science, you have NO intellectual integrity, you are a food fraud, an embarrassment to both the raw food movement and the human species. > > Laurie > -- > > Scientifically-credible info on human diet: > http://ecologos.org/ttdd.html > news:alt.food.vegan.science > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Tim wrote: >>>>Laurie, Laurie... " The raw food movement " ... OK, but " an embarrassment " to the whole human species? Whew...a bit harsh don cha think? Especially during the holdiay season...Can we get just a little bit of charity until say, just after the first of the year?<<<<< Mstrong56 wrote: >>>Can we all chip in and buy Laurie a seat in the next Dale Carnegie course on human relations? She has some good points, but a rather toxic delivery. Also no one owes you the time to argue with you, friendly debate is acceptable, but no one is interested in debating someone caustic, sarcastic and insulting... just my opinion ?<<<<<< I agree X2. This person is just out of control. Did she jump into this group just to undermine the group dynamics? Trish Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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