Guest guest Posted December 25, 2007 Report Share Posted December 25, 2007 this is exactly why many people sit back and do not post. You do not have to agree with Elchanan or anyone for that matter but there is no need for attacks and name calling which is what has been happening repeatedly. Everyone is entitled to how they believe is the best path and can come here to share it and those who choose to research and then either follow that or not is great. But when someone is nasty in their demands for answers who wants to respond to them? If someone angrily demanded things and calling me names then I wouldn't respond to them either. And as far as the things that Elchanan shares here, some of us feel like we are smart enough and capable enough to research on our own to either verify or disagree with what he has said but DO NOT feel the need to attack or take up so much of everyone's time with all this negativity. And where is Laurie's list of degrees and proof that she is right and Elchnan is wrong? I read what each say then research on my own. This has gotten ridiculous. Why can't you or Laurie or anyone when they disagree just say I respectfully disagree due to whatever and move on. Let the rest of us decideon our own without email after email of name calling and rudeness and get back to something more productive. Sorry this turned into so long a message but enough is enough. Agreeor disagree and let's get back to why we are supposed to be here. This isn't a debateforum. it is supposed to be a place where many have chosen different paths and they share with all and then we decide if we agree or disagree. But who wants to share here when you are going to be attacked constantly. I am no expert in rawfoods but I am capable of research and making decisions for what is best for my own health. emusedmary <emusedmary wrote: -Elchanan, since I have been rejected from your path of health group opting out of having (your version of)the spanish inquisition'i will not follow you anywhere If you start a new group because you want to feel safe from having to answer someone's very direct questions~ then fine start that group start as many that will make you feel loved I don't know that you have discovered the unconditional kind anyway I was waiting for you to come outof your corner and answer Lauries questions..... what I saw was you opting out- opting out is always a choice i realize buti never felt anger from laurie's posts just her wanting some logical answers instead of some thread that would glorify you good luck with your new list Em-- In rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan wrote: > > Greetings everyone, > > I write this message with mixed feelings about the past and warm enthusiasm > regarding the future. > > Since I first learned of this Raw Food discussion group nearly 3 years ago, > I have watched with great joy as many, many people experienced this place as > an excellent entry point into the world of raw food and, in a larger sense, > to new approaches to healthful living. At the same time, I have watched at > times with a great sense of sadness and disappointment as I see one or two > people create an atmosphere that causes others to go silent. Now is not the > first time, but now is the worst I've seen, in my own experience. > > The moderators of this Raw Food group apparently choose to moderate in > absentia. That is their right. But I see a clear need for a group that is > wide open to newcomers and experienced RFs alike AND that feels just plain > safe. So in the background, several of us have been discussing formation of > a new group, one with similar goals as this one, but one that is > well-moderated for safety and basic respect and kindness. > > So I'd like to share my idea, to see what others may think ... and invite > you all to join. > > 1. The name of the new group is Going Raw, to capture the idea that we are > all always transitioning in some way, that we are all always on a journey, > each at his/her own place along the way. > > 2. Moderation takes a certain commitment of time and energy. Eventually, no > matter how good someone's intentions are, most people become weary of > moderating, particularly in a group of this size. Therefore, I propose that > people from the group volunteer to serve as moderators for 3 months, then > pass the baton to others. Janet FitzGerald has volunteered to take on a lead > role during this formative period and to stick around for the long term. > Several others have already volunteered to serve for a 3-month period, and I > feel confident that we'll always have people willing to do so. > > As long as we have 2-3 active moderators at any point in time, then there is > never a problem if one moderator is busy, traveling, or the like. > > Who can volunteer? Absolutely anyone ... it would truly be an act of > service!!! We can train anyone to be a moderator, it's easy, even for the > " technically constrained " among us. :) > > How can you volunteer? Simple ... just write to > GoingRaw-owner and let us know you'd like to help out. > > If you wish to try out this solution, just click on > <http://health.GoingRaw/> > http://health.GoingRaw/, then click on the Join > button. We monitor all requests to join the group. For everyone here (with > one or two obvious exceptions), just type something like " Coming from the > Raw Food group " and we'll understand and approve you right away. > > I invite your feedback about this solution, whether here in the group or > privately at GoingRaw-owner Meanwhile, let's just begin!!! > > Best to all, > Elchanan > > PS: One more point. Most of you are aware that I am involved in another > group called PathOfHealth, and you may wonder if this new group will turn > out to be a clone of that one. The answer is " no " . This new group will > preserve the general intent of the existing Raw Food group (perhaps updated > with a tweak here or there) to provide an open, entry-level discussion forum > about raw food, health, and the like. It's all described on the home page. > And sharing the moderating role will only help to preserve the openness of > the group, over time. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 26, 2007 Report Share Posted December 26, 2007 Terri, of course we are capapble of finding things on our own/findour own path but many hwere have been the victim ofhis condescension an mood of the day which results in negativity and so does neglect and then where is the list of anyones degree-E or L? i think that Elchanan too has said things to the effect that this type of knowledge can be self taught see you have seen my post as an attack why???? because I said I am happy here and will not follow elchanan that reveals much about you- Em -- In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully wrote: > > this is exactly why many people sit back and do not post. You do not have to agree with Elchanan or anyone for that matter but there is no need for attacks and name calling which is what has been happening repeatedly. Everyone is entitled to how they believe is the best path and can come here to share it and those who choose to research and then either follow that or not is great. But when someone is nasty in their demands for answers who wants to respond to them? If someone angrily demanded things and calling me names then I wouldn't respond to them either. And as far as the things that Elchanan shares here, some of us feel like we are smart enough and capable enough to research on our own to either verify or disagree with what he has said but DO NOT feel the need to attack or take up so much of everyone's time with all this negativity. And where is Laurie's list of degrees and proof that she is right and Elchnan is wrong? I read what each say then research on my own. > This has gotten ridiculous. Why can't you or Laurie or anyone when they disagree just say I respectfully disagree due to whatever and move on. Let the rest of us decideon our own without email after email of name calling and rudeness and get back to something more productive. > Sorry this turned into so long a message but enough is enough. Agreeor disagree and let's get back to why we are supposed to be here. This isn't a debateforum. it is supposed to be a place where many have chosen different paths and they share with all and then we decide if we agree or disagree. But who wants to share here when you are going to be attacked constantly. I am no expert in rawfoods but I am capable of research and making decisions for what is best for my own health. > > emusedmary <emusedmary wrote: > -Elchanan, > since I have been rejected from your path of health group opting out > of having (your version of)the spanish inquisition'i will not follow > you anywhere > If you start a new group because you want to feel safe from having to > answer someone's very direct questions~ > then fine start that group > start as many that will make you feel loved > I don't know that you have discovered the unconditional kind > anyway I was waiting for you to come outof your corner and answer > Lauries questions..... > what I saw was you opting out- > opting out is always a choice > i realize > buti never felt anger from laurie's posts > just her wanting some logical answers instead of some thread that > would glorify you > good luck with your new list > Em-- In rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan@> wrote: > > > > Greetings everyone, > > > > I write this message with mixed feelings about the past and warm > enthusiasm > > regarding the future. > > > > Since I first learned of this Raw Food discussion group nearly 3 > years ago, > > I have watched with great joy as many, many people experienced this > place as > > an excellent entry point into the world of raw food and, in a larger > sense, > > to new approaches to healthful living. At the same time, I have > watched at > > times with a great sense of sadness and disappointment as I see one > or two > > people create an atmosphere that causes others to go silent. Now is > not the > > first time, but now is the worst I've seen, in my own experience. > > > > The moderators of this Raw Food group apparently choose to moderate in > > absentia. That is their right. But I see a clear need for a group > that is > > wide open to newcomers and experienced RFs alike AND that feels just > plain > > safe. So in the background, several of us have been discussing > formation of > > a new group, one with similar goals as this one, but one that is > > well-moderated for safety and basic respect and kindness. > > > > So I'd like to share my idea, to see what others may think ... and > invite > > you all to join. > > > > 1. The name of the new group is Going Raw, to capture the idea that > we are > > all always transitioning in some way, that we are all always on a > journey, > > each at his/her own place along the way. > > > > 2. Moderation takes a certain commitment of time and energy. > Eventually, no > > matter how good someone's intentions are, most people become weary of > > moderating, particularly in a group of this size. Therefore, I > propose that > > people from the group volunteer to serve as moderators for 3 months, > then > > pass the baton to others. Janet FitzGerald has volunteered to take > on a lead > > role during this formative period and to stick around for the long term. > > Several others have already volunteered to serve for a 3-month > period, and I > > feel confident that we'll always have people willing to do so. > > > > As long as we have 2-3 active moderators at any point in time, then > there is > > never a problem if one moderator is busy, traveling, or the like. > > > > Who can volunteer? Absolutely anyone ... it would truly be an act of > > service!!! We can train anyone to be a moderator, it's easy, even > for the > > " technically constrained " among us. :) > > > > How can you volunteer? Simple ... just write to > > GoingRaw-owner and let us know you'd like to help out. > > > > If you wish to try out this solution, just click on > > <http://health.GoingRaw/> > > http://health.GoingRaw/, then click on the Join > > button. We monitor all requests to join the group. For everyone here > (with > > one or two obvious exceptions), just type something like " Coming > from the > > Raw Food group " and we'll understand and approve you right away. > > > > I invite your feedback about this solution, whether here in the group or > > privately at GoingRaw-owner Meanwhile, let's just > begin!!! > > > > Best to all, > > Elchanan > > > > PS: One more point. Most of you are aware that I am involved in another > > group called PathOfHealth, and you may wonder if this new group will > turn > > out to be a clone of that one. The answer is " no " . This new group will > > preserve the general intent of the existing Raw Food group (perhaps > updated > > with a tweak here or there) to provide an open, entry-level > discussion forum > > about raw food, health, and the like. It's all described on the home > page. > > And sharing the moderating role will only help to preserve the > openness of > > the group, over time. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 no one has to 'follow' him anywhere is they are happy here however, there has been a lot of negativity here and NO ONE should stoop to name calling and such rudeness as has been displayed here. If anyone disagrees with someone, great say so and why and also be willing to say where your expertise comes from since that seems to be often asked for from Elchnan. It can be done in a nice way. I do not like the rudeness and name calling, that is all this says about me emusedmary <emusedmary wrote: Terri, of course we are capapble of finding things on our own/findour own path but many hwere have been the victim ofhis condescension an mood of the day which results in negativity and so does neglect and then where is the list of anyones degree-E or L? i think that Elchanan too has said things to the effect that this type of knowledge can be self taught see you have seen my post as an attack why???? because I said I am happy here and will not follow elchanan that reveals much about you- Em -- In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully wrote: > > this is exactly why many people sit back and do not post. You do not have to agree with Elchanan or anyone for that matter but there is no need for attacks and name calling which is what has been happening repeatedly. Everyone is entitled to how they believe is the best path and can come here to share it and those who choose to research and then either follow that or not is great. But when someone is nasty in their demands for answers who wants to respond to them? If someone angrily demanded things and calling me names then I wouldn't respond to them either. And as far as the things that Elchanan shares here, some of us feel like we are smart enough and capable enough to research on our own to either verify or disagree with what he has said but DO NOT feel the need to attack or take up so much of everyone's time with all this negativity. And where is Laurie's list of degrees and proof that she is right and Elchnan is wrong? I read what each say then research on my own. > This has gotten ridiculous. Why can't you or Laurie or anyone when they disagree just say I respectfully disagree due to whatever and move on. Let the rest of us decideon our own without email after email of name calling and rudeness and get back to something more productive. > Sorry this turned into so long a message but enough is enough. Agreeor disagree and let's get back to why we are supposed to be here. This isn't a debateforum. it is supposed to be a place where many have chosen different paths and they share with all and then we decide if we agree or disagree. But who wants to share here when you are going to be attacked constantly. I am no expert in rawfoods but I am capable of research and making decisions for what is best for my own health. > > emusedmary <emusedmary wrote: > -Elchanan, > since I have been rejected from your path of health group opting out > of having (your version of)the spanish inquisition'i will not follow > you anywhere > If you start a new group because you want to feel safe from having to > answer someone's very direct questions~ > then fine start that group > start as many that will make you feel loved > I don't know that you have discovered the unconditional kind > anyway I was waiting for you to come outof your corner and answer > Lauries questions..... > what I saw was you opting out- > opting out is always a choice > i realize > buti never felt anger from laurie's posts > just her wanting some logical answers instead of some thread that > would glorify you > good luck with your new list > Em-- In rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan@> wrote: > > > > Greetings everyone, > > > > I write this message with mixed feelings about the past and warm > enthusiasm > > regarding the future. > > > > Since I first learned of this Raw Food discussion group nearly 3 > years ago, > > I have watched with great joy as many, many people experienced this > place as > > an excellent entry point into the world of raw food and, in a larger > sense, > > to new approaches to healthful living. At the same time, I have > watched at > > times with a great sense of sadness and disappointment as I see one > or two > > people create an atmosphere that causes others to go silent. Now is > not the > > first time, but now is the worst I've seen, in my own experience. > > > > The moderators of this Raw Food group apparently choose to moderate in > > absentia. That is their right. But I see a clear need for a group > that is > > wide open to newcomers and experienced RFs alike AND that feels just > plain > > safe. So in the background, several of us have been discussing > formation of > > a new group, one with similar goals as this one, but one that is > > well-moderated for safety and basic respect and kindness. > > > > So I'd like to share my idea, to see what others may think ... and > invite > > you all to join. > > > > 1. The name of the new group is Going Raw, to capture the idea that > we are > > all always transitioning in some way, that we are all always on a > journey, > > each at his/her own place along the way. > > > > 2. Moderation takes a certain commitment of time and energy. > Eventually, no > > matter how good someone's intentions are, most people become weary of > > moderating, particularly in a group of this size. Therefore, I > propose that > > people from the group volunteer to serve as moderators for 3 months, > then > > pass the baton to others. Janet FitzGerald has volunteered to take > on a lead > > role during this formative period and to stick around for the long term. > > Several others have already volunteered to serve for a 3-month > period, and I > > feel confident that we'll always have people willing to do so. > > > > As long as we have 2-3 active moderators at any point in time, then > there is > > never a problem if one moderator is busy, traveling, or the like. > > > > Who can volunteer? Absolutely anyone ... it would truly be an act of > > service!!! We can train anyone to be a moderator, it's easy, even > for the > > " technically constrained " among us. :) > > > > How can you volunteer? Simple ... just write to > > GoingRaw-owner and let us know you'd like to help out. > > > > If you wish to try out this solution, just click on > > <http://health.GoingRaw/> > > http://health.GoingRaw/, then click on the Join > > button. We monitor all requests to join the group. For everyone here > (with > > one or two obvious exceptions), just type something like " Coming > from the > > Raw Food group " and we'll understand and approve you right away. > > > > I invite your feedback about this solution, whether here in the group or > > privately at GoingRaw-owner Meanwhile, let's just > begin!!! > > > > Best to all, > > Elchanan > > > > PS: One more point. Most of you are aware that I am involved in another > > group called PathOfHealth, and you may wonder if this new group will > turn > > out to be a clone of that one. The answer is " no " . This new group will > > preserve the general intent of the existing Raw Food group (perhaps > updated > > with a tweak here or there) to provide an open, entry-level > discussion forum > > about raw food, health, and the like. It's all described on the home > page. > > And sharing the moderating role will only help to preserve the > openness of > > the group, over time. > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 27, 2007 Report Share Posted December 27, 2007 ok this has become so complicated that it is hard to be specific- I was going to leave it alone but I did open the can of worms... I don't really think in the larger group that there is negativity. I would have to say that in my personal experience with just elchanan telling me that I could not join his other group this was based on postings in other groups ...which made wonder about him and then figured he was lurking and so it creeped me out... So yes I won't join his other group to avoid Laurie- but Iam not telling others to do the same not my intent just felt the need to say that I was ok I feel safe! Nice is subjective I guess I just have seen too many in this group seem to follow or just seem to ignore ad hominem attacks and then be upset by direct questions For me it reminded me a bit of the Wizard of Oz and I guess that all the other characters should give their credentials,Lion,tin man ,scarecrow and Dorothy all in all I am just trying to figure out how to be healthy-so when I see interesting things about frozen fruit-which I have to use in winter months and that it is not something that might be that healthy....or fresh vs. frozen How much fat should I eat...??? It really is as simple as that- & I have gotten some great feedback that has helped me Em rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully wrote: > > no one has to 'follow' him anywhere is they are happy here however, there has been a lot of negativity here and NO ONE should stoop to name calling and such rudeness as has been displayed here. If anyone disagrees with someone, great say so and why and also be willing to say where your expertise comes from since that seems to be often asked for from Elchnan. It can be done in a nice way. I do not like the rudeness and name calling, that is all this says about me > > emusedmary <emusedmary wrote: Terri, > of course we are capapble of finding things on our own/findour own path > but many hwere have been the victim ofhis condescension an mood of the day > which results in negativity and so does neglect > and then > where is the list of anyones degree-E or L? > i think that Elchanan too has said things to the effect that this type > of knowledge can be self taught > see you have seen my post as an attack > why???? > because I said I am happy here and will not > follow > elchanan > that reveals much about > you- > Em > -- In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully@> wrote: > > > > this is exactly why many people sit back and do not post. You do not > have to agree with Elchanan or anyone for that matter but there is no > need for attacks and name calling which is what has been happening > repeatedly. Everyone is entitled to how they believe is the best path > and can come here to share it and those who choose to research and > then either follow that or not is great. But when someone is nasty in > their demands for answers who wants to respond to them? If someone > angrily demanded things and calling me names then I wouldn't respond > to them either. And as far as the things that Elchanan shares here, > some of us feel like we are smart enough and capable enough to > research on our own to either verify or disagree with what he has said > but DO NOT feel the need to attack or take up so much of everyone's > time with all this negativity. And where is Laurie's list of degrees > and proof that she is right and Elchnan is wrong? I read what each say > then research on my own. > > This has gotten ridiculous. Why can't you or Laurie or anyone when > they disagree just say I respectfully disagree due to whatever and > move on. Let the rest of us decideon our own without email after email > of name calling and rudeness and get back to something more productive. > > Sorry this turned into so long a message but enough is enough. > Agreeor disagree and let's get back to why we are supposed to be here. > This isn't a debateforum. it is supposed to be a place where many have > chosen different paths and they share with all and then we decide if > we agree or disagree. But who wants to share here when you are going > to be attacked constantly. I am no expert in rawfoods but I am capable > of research and making decisions for what is best for my own health. > > > > emusedmary <emusedmary@> wrote: > > -Elchanan, > > since I have been rejected from your path of health group opting out > > of having (your version of)the spanish inquisition'i will not follow > > you anywhere > > If you start a new group because you want to feel safe from having to > > answer someone's very direct questions~ > > then fine start that group > > start as many that will make you feel loved > > I don't know that you have discovered the unconditional kind > > anyway I was waiting for you to come outof your corner and answer > > Lauries questions..... > > what I saw was you opting out- > > opting out is always a choice > > i realize > > buti never felt anger from laurie's posts > > just her wanting some logical answers instead of some thread that > > would glorify you > > good luck with your new list > > Em-- In rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan@> wrote: > > > > > > Greetings everyone, > > > > > > I write this message with mixed feelings about the past and warm > > enthusiasm > > > regarding the future. > > > > > > Since I first learned of this Raw Food discussion group nearly 3 > > years ago, > > > I have watched with great joy as many, many people experienced this > > place as > > > an excellent entry point into the world of raw food and, in a larger > > sense, > > > to new approaches to healthful living. At the same time, I have > > watched at > > > times with a great sense of sadness and disappointment as I see one > > or two > > > people create an atmosphere that causes others to go silent. Now is > > not the > > > first time, but now is the worst I've seen, in my own experience. > > > > > > The moderators of this Raw Food group apparently choose to moderate in > > > absentia. That is their right. But I see a clear need for a group > > that is > > > wide open to newcomers and experienced RFs alike AND that feels just > > plain > > > safe. So in the background, several of us have been discussing > > formation of > > > a new group, one with similar goals as this one, but one that is > > > well-moderated for safety and basic respect and kindness. > > > > > > So I'd like to share my idea, to see what others may think ... and > > invite > > > you all to join. > > > > > > 1. The name of the new group is Going Raw, to capture the idea that > > we are > > > all always transitioning in some way, that we are all always on a > > journey, > > > each at his/her own place along the way. > > > > > > 2. Moderation takes a certain commitment of time and energy. > > Eventually, no > > > matter how good someone's intentions are, most people become weary of > > > moderating, particularly in a group of this size. Therefore, I > > propose that > > > people from the group volunteer to serve as moderators for 3 months, > > then > > > pass the baton to others. Janet FitzGerald has volunteered to take > > on a lead > > > role during this formative period and to stick around for the long > term. > > > Several others have already volunteered to serve for a 3-month > > period, and I > > > feel confident that we'll always have people willing to do so. > > > > > > As long as we have 2-3 active moderators at any point in time, then > > there is > > > never a problem if one moderator is busy, traveling, or the like. > > > > > > Who can volunteer? Absolutely anyone ... it would truly be an act of > > > service!!! We can train anyone to be a moderator, it's easy, even > > for the > > > " technically constrained " among us. :) > > > > > > How can you volunteer? Simple ... just write to > > > GoingRaw-owner and let us know you'd like to help > out. > > > > > > If you wish to try out this solution, just click on > > > <http://health.GoingRaw/> > > > http://health.GoingRaw/, then click on the Join > > > button. We monitor all requests to join the group. For everyone here > > (with > > > one or two obvious exceptions), just type something like " Coming > > from the > > > Raw Food group " and we'll understand and approve you right away. > > > > > > I invite your feedback about this solution, whether here in the > group or > > > privately at GoingRaw-owner Meanwhile, let's just > > begin!!! > > > > > > Best to all, > > > Elchanan > > > > > > PS: One more point. Most of you are aware that I am involved in > another > > > group called PathOfHealth, and you may wonder if this new group will > > turn > > > out to be a clone of that one. The answer is " no " . This new group will > > > preserve the general intent of the existing Raw Food group (perhaps > > updated > > > with a tweak here or there) to provide an open, entry-level > > discussion forum > > > about raw food, health, and the like. It's all described on the home > > page. > > > And sharing the moderating role will only help to preserve the > > openness of > > > the group, over time. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 Personally, I would like for this group to stay intact and open without moderators. Moderators may not post your messages if they don't like your viewpoint or even have some sort of past " beef " with you. I do like the challenges to various viewpoints. Knowing all viewpoints and sides to an issue, whether it is religion or diet, is something I like to seek. I do not like all of the ridiculous name- calling either, but in between the slurs, I think there are some valid questions being asked, possibly from a very frustrated person wanting some sort of acknowledgment. Can't we all agree as a group that we will ignore Laurie's posts and questions until he starts communicating in a manner that is less offensive? If he gets no attention whatsoever from these posts, I think they will stop. Are we going to give him the satisfaction of knowing he had the power to shut down or change our group? Beth - In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully wrote: > > no one has to 'follow' him anywhere is they are happy here however, there has been a lot of negativity here and NO ONE should stoop to name calling and such rudeness as has been displayed here. If anyone disagrees with someone, great say so and why and also be willing to say where your expertise comes from since that seems to be often asked for from Elchnan. It can be done in a nice way. I do not like the rudeness and name calling, that is all this says about me > > emusedmary <emusedmary wrote: Terri, > of course we are capapble of finding things on our own/findour own path > but many hwere have been the victim ofhis condescension an mood of the day > which results in negativity and so does neglect > and then > where is the list of anyones degree-E or L? > i think that Elchanan too has said things to the effect that this type > of knowledge can be self taught > see you have seen my post as an attack > why???? > because I said I am happy here and will not > follow > elchanan > that reveals much about > you- > Em > -- In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully@> wrote: > > > > this is exactly why many people sit back and do not post. You do not > have to agree with Elchanan or anyone for that matter but there is no > need for attacks and name calling which is what has been happening > repeatedly. Everyone is entitled to how they believe is the best path > and can come here to share it and those who choose to research and > then either follow that or not is great. But when someone is nasty in > their demands for answers who wants to respond to them? If someone > angrily demanded things and calling me names then I wouldn't respond > to them either. And as far as the things that Elchanan shares here, > some of us feel like we are smart enough and capable enough to > research on our own to either verify or disagree with what he has said > but DO NOT feel the need to attack or take up so much of everyone's > time with all this negativity. And where is Laurie's list of degrees > and proof that she is right and Elchnan is wrong? I read what each say > then research on my own. > > This has gotten ridiculous. Why can't you or Laurie or anyone when > they disagree just say I respectfully disagree due to whatever and > move on. Let the rest of us decideon our own without email after email > of name calling and rudeness and get back to something more productive. > > Sorry this turned into so long a message but enough is enough. > Agreeor disagree and let's get back to why we are supposed to be here. > This isn't a debateforum. it is supposed to be a place where many have > chosen different paths and they share with all and then we decide if > we agree or disagree. But who wants to share here when you are going > to be attacked constantly. I am no expert in rawfoods but I am capable > of research and making decisions for what is best for my own health. > > > > emusedmary <emusedmary@> wrote: > > -Elchanan, > > since I have been rejected from your path of health group opting out > > of having (your version of)the spanish inquisition'i will not follow > > you anywhere > > If you start a new group because you want to feel safe from having to > > answer someone's very direct questions~ > > then fine start that group > > start as many that will make you feel loved > > I don't know that you have discovered the unconditional kind > > anyway I was waiting for you to come outof your corner and answer > > Lauries questions..... > > what I saw was you opting out- > > opting out is always a choice > > i realize > > buti never felt anger from laurie's posts > > just her wanting some logical answers instead of some thread that > > would glorify you > > good luck with your new list > > Em-- In rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan@> wrote: > > > > > > Greetings everyone, > > > > > > I write this message with mixed feelings about the past and warm > > enthusiasm > > > regarding the future. > > > > > > Since I first learned of this Raw Food discussion group nearly 3 > > years ago, > > > I have watched with great joy as many, many people experienced this > > place as > > > an excellent entry point into the world of raw food and, in a larger > > sense, > > > to new approaches to healthful living. At the same time, I have > > watched at > > > times with a great sense of sadness and disappointment as I see one > > or two > > > people create an atmosphere that causes others to go silent. Now is > > not the > > > first time, but now is the worst I've seen, in my own experience. > > > > > > The moderators of this Raw Food group apparently choose to moderate in > > > absentia. That is their right. But I see a clear need for a group > > that is > > > wide open to newcomers and experienced RFs alike AND that feels just > > plain > > > safe. So in the background, several of us have been discussing > > formation of > > > a new group, one with similar goals as this one, but one that is > > > well-moderated for safety and basic respect and kindness. > > > > > > So I'd like to share my idea, to see what others may think ... and > > invite > > > you all to join. > > > > > > 1. The name of the new group is Going Raw, to capture the idea that > > we are > > > all always transitioning in some way, that we are all always on a > > journey, > > > each at his/her own place along the way. > > > > > > 2. Moderation takes a certain commitment of time and energy. > > Eventually, no > > > matter how good someone's intentions are, most people become weary of > > > moderating, particularly in a group of this size. Therefore, I > > propose that > > > people from the group volunteer to serve as moderators for 3 months, > > then > > > pass the baton to others. Janet FitzGerald has volunteered to take > > on a lead > > > role during this formative period and to stick around for the long > term. > > > Several others have already volunteered to serve for a 3-month > > period, and I > > > feel confident that we'll always have people willing to do so. > > > > > > As long as we have 2-3 active moderators at any point in time, then > > there is > > > never a problem if one moderator is busy, traveling, or the like. > > > > > > Who can volunteer? Absolutely anyone ... it would truly be an act of > > > service!!! We can train anyone to be a moderator, it's easy, even > > for the > > > " technically constrained " among us. :) > > > > > > How can you volunteer? Simple ... just write to > > > GoingRaw-owner and let us know you'd like to help > out. > > > > > > If you wish to try out this solution, just click on > > > <http://health.GoingRaw/> > > > http://health.GoingRaw/, then click on the Join > > > button. We monitor all requests to join the group. For everyone here > > (with > > > one or two obvious exceptions), just type something like " Coming > > from the > > > Raw Food group " and we'll understand and approve you right away. > > > > > > I invite your feedback about this solution, whether here in the > group or > > > privately at GoingRaw-owner Meanwhile, let's just > > begin!!! > > > > > > Best to all, > > > Elchanan > > > > > > PS: One more point. Most of you are aware that I am involved in > another > > > group called PathOfHealth, and you may wonder if this new group will > > turn > > > out to be a clone of that one. The answer is " no " . This new group will > > > preserve the general intent of the existing Raw Food group (perhaps > > updated > > > with a tweak here or there) to provide an open, entry-level > > discussion forum > > > about raw food, health, and the like. It's all described on the home > > page. > > > And sharing the moderating role will only help to preserve the > > openness of > > > the group, over time. > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 This group has ov er 3,000 members... but ACTIVE ones are few. It's like voters in America - not many active and they have a strong voice. I can truly understand the frustration of not being responded to. However I do know that name calling and hollering lourder sometimes gets us the opposite of what we want. The person we are tryiing to connect with shuts down. I would say much of this conversatin shoulde have been between the parties off line. Perhaps we can agree if we have something personal and it gets us upset with ONE party that we would take that part of the conversation off line until it can be settled between the 2 parties. If one decides to disconnect then that must be respected.... I say on to the next... the world is full of people to connect with. Often a 3rd party can cause more confusion and add more to disagreement than settling the dispute. I've found if the 2 parties involved can talk - it may take time sorting things out - persistance is the key - then things settle down. Not always of course. The exception to this is if one party is on mood altering drugs and that can include any alcohol even moderately or even some foods can be mood altering. My 2 cents. Louise rawfood , " Beth Mouser " <mouser4 wrote: > > Personally, I would like for this group to stay intact and open > without moderators. Moderators may not post your messages if they > don't like your viewpoint or even have some sort of past " beef " with > you. > > I do like the challenges to various viewpoints. Knowing all > viewpoints and sides to an issue, whether it is religion or diet, is > something I like to seek. I do not like all of the ridiculous name- > calling either, but in between the slurs, I think there are some > valid questions being asked, possibly from a very frustrated person > wanting some sort of acknowledgment. > > Can't we all agree as a group that we will ignore Laurie's posts and > questions until he starts communicating in a manner that is less > offensive? If he gets no attention whatsoever from these posts, I > think they will stop. Are we going to give him the satisfaction of > knowing he had the power to shut down or change our group? > > Beth > > > - In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully@> wrote: > > > > no one has to 'follow' him anywhere is they are happy here > however, there has been a lot of negativity here and NO ONE should > stoop to name calling and such rudeness as has been displayed here. > If anyone disagrees with someone, great say so and why and also be > willing to say where your expertise comes from since that seems to > be often asked for from Elchnan. It can be done in a nice way. I do > not like the rudeness and name calling, that is all this says about > me > > > > emusedmary <emusedmary@> wrote: Terri, > > of course we are capapble of finding things on our own/findour own > path > > but many hwere have been the victim ofhis condescension an mood of > the day > > which results in negativity and so does neglect > > and then > > where is the list of anyones degree-E or L? > > i think that Elchanan too has said things to the effect that this > type > > of knowledge can be self taught > > see you have seen my post as an attack > > why???? > > because I said I am happy here and will not > > follow > > elchanan > > that reveals much about > > you- > > Em > > -- In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully@> wrote: > > > > > > this is exactly why many people sit back and do not post. You do > not > > have to agree with Elchanan or anyone for that matter but there is > no > > need for attacks and name calling which is what has been happening > > repeatedly. Everyone is entitled to how they believe is the best > path > > and can come here to share it and those who choose to research and > > then either follow that or not is great. But when someone is nasty > in > > their demands for answers who wants to respond to them? If someone > > angrily demanded things and calling me names then I wouldn't > respond > > to them either. And as far as the things that Elchanan shares > here, > > some of us feel like we are smart enough and capable enough to > > research on our own to either verify or disagree with what he has > said > > but DO NOT feel the need to attack or take up so much of everyone's > > time with all this negativity. And where is Laurie's list of > degrees > > and proof that she is right and Elchnan is wrong? I read what each > say > > then research on my own. > > > This has gotten ridiculous. Why can't you or Laurie or anyone > when > > they disagree just say I respectfully disagree due to whatever and > > move on. Let the rest of us decideon our own without email after > email > > of name calling and rudeness and get back to something more > productive. > > > Sorry this turned into so long a message but enough is enough. > > Agreeor disagree and let's get back to why we are supposed to be > here. > > This isn't a debateforum. it is supposed to be a place where many > have > > chosen different paths and they share with all and then we decide > if > > we agree or disagree. But who wants to share here when you are > going > > to be attacked constantly. I am no expert in rawfoods but I am > capable > > of research and making decisions for what is best for my own > health. > > > > > > emusedmary <emusedmary@> wrote: > > > -Elchanan, > > > since I have been rejected from your path of health group opting > out > > > of having (your version of)the spanish inquisition'i will not > follow > > > you anywhere > > > If you start a new group because you want to feel safe from > having to > > > answer someone's very direct questions~ > > > then fine start that group > > > start as many that will make you feel loved > > > I don't know that you have discovered the unconditional kind > > > anyway I was waiting for you to come outof your corner and answer > > > Lauries questions..... > > > what I saw was you opting out- > > > opting out is always a choice > > > i realize > > > buti never felt anger from laurie's posts > > > just her wanting some logical answers instead of some thread that > > > would glorify you > > > good luck with your new list > > > Em-- In rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Greetings everyone, > > > > > > > > I write this message with mixed feelings about the past and > warm > > > enthusiasm > > > > regarding the future. > > > > > > > > Since I first learned of this Raw Food discussion group nearly > 3 > > > years ago, > > > > I have watched with great joy as many, many people experienced > this > > > place as > > > > an excellent entry point into the world of raw food and, in a > larger > > > sense, > > > > to new approaches to healthful living. At the same time, I have > > > watched at > > > > times with a great sense of sadness and disappointment as I > see one > > > or two > > > > people create an atmosphere that causes others to go silent. > Now is > > > not the > > > > first time, but now is the worst I've seen, in my own > experience. > > > > > > > > The moderators of this Raw Food group apparently choose to > moderate in > > > > absentia. That is their right. But I see a clear need for a > group > > > that is > > > > wide open to newcomers and experienced RFs alike AND that > feels just > > > plain > > > > safe. So in the background, several of us have been discussing > > > formation of > > > > a new group, one with similar goals as this one, but one that > is > > > > well-moderated for safety and basic respect and kindness. > > > > > > > > So I'd like to share my idea, to see what others may think ... > and > > > invite > > > > you all to join. > > > > > > > > 1. The name of the new group is Going Raw, to capture the idea > that > > > we are > > > > all always transitioning in some way, that we are all always > on a > > > journey, > > > > each at his/her own place along the way. > > > > > > > > 2. Moderation takes a certain commitment of time and energy. > > > Eventually, no > > > > matter how good someone's intentions are, most people become > weary of > > > > moderating, particularly in a group of this size. Therefore, I > > > propose that > > > > people from the group volunteer to serve as moderators for 3 > months, > > > then > > > > pass the baton to others. Janet FitzGerald has volunteered to > take > > > on a lead > > > > role during this formative period and to stick around for the > long > > term. > > > > Several others have already volunteered to serve for a 3-month > > > period, and I > > > > feel confident that we'll always have people willing to do so. > > > > > > > > As long as we have 2-3 active moderators at any point in time, > then > > > there is > > > > never a problem if one moderator is busy, traveling, or the > like. > > > > > > > > Who can volunteer? Absolutely anyone ... it would truly be an > act of > > > > service!!! We can train anyone to be a moderator, it's easy, > even > > > for the > > > > " technically constrained " among us. :) > > > > > > > > How can you volunteer? Simple ... just write to > > > > GoingRaw-owner and let us know you'd like to > help > > out. > > > > > > > > If you wish to try out this solution, just click on > > > > <http://health.GoingRaw/> > > > > http://health.GoingRaw/, then click on > the Join > > > > button. We monitor all requests to join the group. For > everyone here > > > (with > > > > one or two obvious exceptions), just type something > like " Coming > > > from the > > > > Raw Food group " and we'll understand and approve you right > away. > > > > > > > > I invite your feedback about this solution, whether here in the > > group or > > > > privately at GoingRaw-owner Meanwhile, let's > just > > > begin!!! > > > > > > > > Best to all, > > > > Elchanan > > > > > > > > PS: One more point. Most of you are aware that I am involved in > > another > > > > group called PathOfHealth, and you may wonder if this new > group will > > > turn > > > > out to be a clone of that one. The answer is " no " . This new > group will > > > > preserve the general intent of the existing Raw Food group > (perhaps > > > updated > > > > with a tweak here or there) to provide an open, entry-level > > > discussion forum > > > > about raw food, health, and the like. It's all described on > the home > > > page. > > > > And sharing the moderating role will only help to preserve the > > > openness of > > > > the group, over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 well said and I think we were all staying out of it to see if the 2 parties would resolve I did until I felt I had somethingto say when there was talk about creating a safe group I just wanted to say that I felt safe and had no interest in joining the other group which I have not. i am not saying that it is not for those who have. And I think to clarify for Beth and any others-Elchanan created another group-I forgot what it is called ...as far as I know he is not a moderator here at Raw foodss for Health & Happiness Em rawfood , " loulin3 " <Joyloulin wrote: > > This group has ov er 3,000 members... but ACTIVE ones are few. It's > like voters in America - not many active and they have a strong > voice. > > I can truly understand the frustration of not being responded to. > However I do know that name calling and hollering lourder sometimes > gets us the opposite of what we want. The person we are tryiing to > connect with shuts down. I would say much of this conversatin > shoulde have been between the parties off line. > > Perhaps we can agree if we have something personal and it gets us > upset with ONE party that we would take that part of the conversation > off line until it can be settled between the 2 parties. If one > decides to disconnect then that must be respected.... I say on to the > next... the world is full of people to connect with. > > Often a 3rd party can cause more confusion and add more to > disagreement than settling the dispute. I've found if the 2 parties > involved can talk - it may take time sorting things out - persistance > is the key - then things settle down. > > Not always of course. The exception to this is if one party is on > mood altering drugs and that can include any alcohol even moderately > or even some foods can be mood altering. > > My 2 cents. > > Louise > > rawfood , " Beth Mouser " <mouser4@> wrote: > > > > Personally, I would like for this group to stay intact and open > > without moderators. Moderators may not post your messages if they > > don't like your viewpoint or even have some sort of past " beef " > with > > you. > > > > I do like the challenges to various viewpoints. Knowing all > > viewpoints and sides to an issue, whether it is religion or diet, > is > > something I like to seek. I do not like all of the ridiculous name- > > calling either, but in between the slurs, I think there are some > > valid questions being asked, possibly from a very frustrated person > > wanting some sort of acknowledgment. > > > > Can't we all agree as a group that we will ignore Laurie's posts > and > > questions until he starts communicating in a manner that is less > > offensive? If he gets no attention whatsoever from these posts, I > > think they will stop. Are we going to give him the satisfaction of > > knowing he had the power to shut down or change our group? > > > > Beth > > > > > > - In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully@> wrote: > > > > > > no one has to 'follow' him anywhere is they are happy here > > however, there has been a lot of negativity here and NO ONE should > > stoop to name calling and such rudeness as has been displayed here. > > If anyone disagrees with someone, great say so and why and also be > > willing to say where your expertise comes from since that seems to > > be often asked for from Elchnan. It can be done in a nice way. I do > > not like the rudeness and name calling, that is all this says about > > me > > > > > > emusedmary <emusedmary@> wrote: Terri, > > > of course we are capapble of finding things on our own/findour > own > > path > > > but many hwere have been the victim ofhis condescension an mood > of > > the day > > > which results in negativity and so does neglect > > > and then > > > where is the list of anyones degree-E or L? > > > i think that Elchanan too has said things to the effect that this > > type > > > of knowledge can be self taught > > > see you have seen my post as an attack > > > why???? > > > because I said I am happy here and will not > > > follow > > > elchanan > > > that reveals much about > > > you- > > > Em > > > -- In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > this is exactly why many people sit back and do not post. You > do > > not > > > have to agree with Elchanan or anyone for that matter but there > is > > no > > > need for attacks and name calling which is what has been happening > > > repeatedly. Everyone is entitled to how they believe is the best > > path > > > and can come here to share it and those who choose to research and > > > then either follow that or not is great. But when someone is > nasty > > in > > > their demands for answers who wants to respond to them? If someone > > > angrily demanded things and calling me names then I wouldn't > > respond > > > to them either. And as far as the things that Elchanan shares > > here, > > > some of us feel like we are smart enough and capable enough to > > > research on our own to either verify or disagree with what he has > > said > > > but DO NOT feel the need to attack or take up so much of > everyone's > > > time with all this negativity. And where is Laurie's list of > > degrees > > > and proof that she is right and Elchnan is wrong? I read what > each > > say > > > then research on my own. > > > > This has gotten ridiculous. Why can't you or Laurie or anyone > > when > > > they disagree just say I respectfully disagree due to whatever and > > > move on. Let the rest of us decideon our own without email after > > email > > > of name calling and rudeness and get back to something more > > productive. > > > > Sorry this turned into so long a message but enough is enough. > > > Agreeor disagree and let's get back to why we are supposed to be > > here. > > > This isn't a debateforum. it is supposed to be a place where many > > have > > > chosen different paths and they share with all and then we decide > > if > > > we agree or disagree. But who wants to share here when you are > > going > > > to be attacked constantly. I am no expert in rawfoods but I am > > capable > > > of research and making decisions for what is best for my own > > health. > > > > > > > > emusedmary <emusedmary@> wrote: > > > > -Elchanan, > > > > since I have been rejected from your path of health group > opting > > out > > > > of having (your version of)the spanish inquisition'i will not > > follow > > > > you anywhere > > > > If you start a new group because you want to feel safe from > > having to > > > > answer someone's very direct questions~ > > > > then fine start that group > > > > start as many that will make you feel loved > > > > I don't know that you have discovered the unconditional kind > > > > anyway I was waiting for you to come outof your corner and > answer > > > > Lauries questions..... > > > > what I saw was you opting out- > > > > opting out is always a choice > > > > i realize > > > > buti never felt anger from laurie's posts > > > > just her wanting some logical answers instead of some thread > that > > > > would glorify you > > > > good luck with your new list > > > > Em-- In rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Greetings everyone, > > > > > > > > > > I write this message with mixed feelings about the past and > > warm > > > > enthusiasm > > > > > regarding the future. > > > > > > > > > > Since I first learned of this Raw Food discussion group > nearly > > 3 > > > > years ago, > > > > > I have watched with great joy as many, many people > experienced > > this > > > > place as > > > > > an excellent entry point into the world of raw food and, in a > > larger > > > > sense, > > > > > to new approaches to healthful living. At the same time, I > have > > > > watched at > > > > > times with a great sense of sadness and disappointment as I > > see one > > > > or two > > > > > people create an atmosphere that causes others to go silent. > > Now is > > > > not the > > > > > first time, but now is the worst I've seen, in my own > > experience. > > > > > > > > > > The moderators of this Raw Food group apparently choose to > > moderate in > > > > > absentia. That is their right. But I see a clear need for a > > group > > > > that is > > > > > wide open to newcomers and experienced RFs alike AND that > > feels just > > > > plain > > > > > safe. So in the background, several of us have been discussing > > > > formation of > > > > > a new group, one with similar goals as this one, but one that > > is > > > > > well-moderated for safety and basic respect and kindness. > > > > > > > > > > So I'd like to share my idea, to see what others may > think ... > > and > > > > invite > > > > > you all to join. > > > > > > > > > > 1. The name of the new group is Going Raw, to capture the > idea > > that > > > > we are > > > > > all always transitioning in some way, that we are all always > > on a > > > > journey, > > > > > each at his/her own place along the way. > > > > > > > > > > 2. Moderation takes a certain commitment of time and energy. > > > > Eventually, no > > > > > matter how good someone's intentions are, most people become > > weary of > > > > > moderating, particularly in a group of this size. Therefore, I > > > > propose that > > > > > people from the group volunteer to serve as moderators for 3 > > months, > > > > then > > > > > pass the baton to others. Janet FitzGerald has volunteered to > > take > > > > on a lead > > > > > role during this formative period and to stick around for the > > long > > > term. > > > > > Several others have already volunteered to serve for a 3-month > > > > period, and I > > > > > feel confident that we'll always have people willing to do > so. > > > > > > > > > > As long as we have 2-3 active moderators at any point in > time, > > then > > > > there is > > > > > never a problem if one moderator is busy, traveling, or the > > like. > > > > > > > > > > Who can volunteer? Absolutely anyone ... it would truly be an > > act of > > > > > service!!! We can train anyone to be a moderator, it's easy, > > even > > > > for the > > > > > " technically constrained " among us. :) > > > > > > > > > > How can you volunteer? Simple ... just write to > > > > > GoingRaw-owner and let us know you'd like to > > help > > > out. > > > > > > > > > > If you wish to try out this solution, just click on > > > > > <http://health.GoingRaw/> > > > > > http://health.GoingRaw/, then click on > > the Join > > > > > button. We monitor all requests to join the group. For > > everyone here > > > > (with > > > > > one or two obvious exceptions), just type something > > like " Coming > > > > from the > > > > > Raw Food group " and we'll understand and approve you right > > away. > > > > > > > > > > I invite your feedback about this solution, whether here in > the > > > group or > > > > > privately at GoingRaw-owner Meanwhile, let's > > just > > > > begin!!! > > > > > > > > > > Best to all, > > > > > Elchanan > > > > > > > > > > PS: One more point. Most of you are aware that I am involved > in > > > another > > > > > group called PathOfHealth, and you may wonder if this new > > group will > > > > turn > > > > > out to be a clone of that one. The answer is " no " . This new > > group will > > > > > preserve the general intent of the existing Raw Food group > > (perhaps > > > > updated > > > > > with a tweak here or there) to provide an open, entry-level > > > > discussion forum > > > > > about raw food, health, and the like. It's all described on > > the home > > > > page. > > > > > And sharing the moderating role will only help to preserve the > > > > openness of > > > > > the group, over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 29, 2007 Report Share Posted December 29, 2007 On Saturday 29 December 2007, loulin3 wrote: > Not always of course. The exception to this is if one > party is on mood altering drugs and that can include any > alcohol even moderately or even some foods can be mood > altering. > > My 2 cents. > > Louise I would not agree with that statement (although I am not falling out with you From my observation, people do not need any mood altering drugs to behave in the manner you describe. It is their psychology, not diet. -- the kneeling fool raw, holistic, natural diet for body and mind http://health.rawfoodsforhealth/ urine_therapy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 30, 2007 Report Share Posted December 30, 2007 I agree Neal. I meant that being reasonable and able to settle things and be persistant to a logical reasonable conclusion. Drugs make a difference in reasonablness or even motivation etc. Louise rawfood , the kneeling fool <kneel.pardoe wrote: > > On Saturday 29 December 2007, loulin3 wrote: > > Not always of course. The exception to this is if one > > party is on mood altering drugs and that can include any > > alcohol even moderately or even some foods can be mood > > altering. > > > > My 2 cents. > > > > Louise > > I would not agree with that statement (although I am not > falling out with you > > From my observation, people do not need any mood altering > drugs to behave in the manner you describe. It is their > psychology, not diet. > > -- > the kneeling fool > > raw, holistic, natural diet for body and mind > http://health.rawfoodsforhealth/ > urine_therapy > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 31, 2007 Report Share Posted December 31, 2007 I agree if you hava a problem with someone talktto them separately.That would help loulin3 <Joyloulin wrote: This group has ov er 3,000 members... but ACTIVE ones are few. It's like voters in America - not many active and they have a strong voice. I can truly understand the frustration of not being responded to. However I do know that name calling and hollering lourder sometimes gets us the opposite of what we want. The person we are tryiing to connect with shuts down. I would say much of this conversatin shoulde have been between the parties off line. Perhaps we can agree if we have something personal and it gets us upset with ONE party that we would take that part of the conversation off line until it can be settled between the 2 parties. If one decides to disconnect then that must be respected.... I say on to the next... the world is full of people to connect with. Often a 3rd party can cause more confusion and add more to disagreement than settling the dispute. I've found if the 2 parties involved can talk - it may take time sorting things out - persistance is the key - then things settle down. Not always of course. The exception to this is if one party is on mood altering drugs and that can include any alcohol even moderately or even some foods can be mood altering. My 2 cents. Louise rawfood , " Beth Mouser " <mouser4 wrote: > > Personally, I would like for this group to stay intact and open > without moderators. Moderators may not post your messages if they > don't like your viewpoint or even have some sort of past " beef " with > you. > > I do like the challenges to various viewpoints. Knowing all > viewpoints and sides to an issue, whether it is religion or diet, is > something I like to seek. I do not like all of the ridiculous name- > calling either, but in between the slurs, I think there are some > valid questions being asked, possibly from a very frustrated person > wanting some sort of acknowledgment. > > Can't we all agree as a group that we will ignore Laurie's posts and > questions until he starts communicating in a manner that is less > offensive? If he gets no attention whatsoever from these posts, I > think they will stop. Are we going to give him the satisfaction of > knowing he had the power to shut down or change our group? > > Beth > > > - In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully@> wrote: > > > > no one has to 'follow' him anywhere is they are happy here > however, there has been a lot of negativity here and NO ONE should > stoop to name calling and such rudeness as has been displayed here. > If anyone disagrees with someone, great say so and why and also be > willing to say where your expertise comes from since that seems to > be often asked for from Elchnan. It can be done in a nice way. I do > not like the rudeness and name calling, that is all this says about > me > > > > emusedmary <emusedmary@> wrote: Terri, > > of course we are capapble of finding things on our own/findour own > path > > but many hwere have been the victim ofhis condescension an mood of > the day > > which results in negativity and so does neglect > > and then > > where is the list of anyones degree-E or L? > > i think that Elchanan too has said things to the effect that this > type > > of knowledge can be self taught > > see you have seen my post as an attack > > why???? > > because I said I am happy here and will not > > follow > > elchanan > > that reveals much about > > you- > > Em > > -- In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully@> wrote: > > > > > > this is exactly why many people sit back and do not post. You do > not > > have to agree with Elchanan or anyone for that matter but there is > no > > need for attacks and name calling which is what has been happening > > repeatedly. Everyone is entitled to how they believe is the best > path > > and can come here to share it and those who choose to research and > > then either follow that or not is great. But when someone is nasty > in > > their demands for answers who wants to respond to them? If someone > > angrily demanded things and calling me names then I wouldn't > respond > > to them either. And as far as the things that Elchanan shares > here, > > some of us feel like we are smart enough and capable enough to > > research on our own to either verify or disagree with what he has > said > > but DO NOT feel the need to attack or take up so much of everyone's > > time with all this negativity. And where is Laurie's list of > degrees > > and proof that she is right and Elchnan is wrong? I read what each > say > > then research on my own. > > > This has gotten ridiculous. Why can't you or Laurie or anyone > when > > they disagree just say I respectfully disagree due to whatever and > > move on. Let the rest of us decideon our own without email after > email > > of name calling and rudeness and get back to something more > productive. > > > Sorry this turned into so long a message but enough is enough. > > Agreeor disagree and let's get back to why we are supposed to be > here. > > This isn't a debateforum. it is supposed to be a place where many > have > > chosen different paths and they share with all and then we decide > if > > we agree or disagree. But who wants to share here when you are > going > > to be attacked constantly. I am no expert in rawfoods but I am > capable > > of research and making decisions for what is best for my own > health. > > > > > > emusedmary <emusedmary@> wrote: > > > -Elchanan, > > > since I have been rejected from your path of health group opting > out > > > of having (your version of)the spanish inquisition'i will not > follow > > > you anywhere > > > If you start a new group because you want to feel safe from > having to > > > answer someone's very direct questions~ > > > then fine start that group > > > start as many that will make you feel loved > > > I don't know that you have discovered the unconditional kind > > > anyway I was waiting for you to come outof your corner and answer > > > Lauries questions..... > > > what I saw was you opting out- > > > opting out is always a choice > > > i realize > > > buti never felt anger from laurie's posts > > > just her wanting some logical answers instead of some thread that > > > would glorify you > > > good luck with your new list > > > Em-- In rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Greetings everyone, > > > > > > > > I write this message with mixed feelings about the past and > warm > > > enthusiasm > > > > regarding the future. > > > > > > > > Since I first learned of this Raw Food discussion group nearly > 3 > > > years ago, > > > > I have watched with great joy as many, many people experienced > this > > > place as > > > > an excellent entry point into the world of raw food and, in a > larger > > > sense, > > > > to new approaches to healthful living. At the same time, I have > > > watched at > > > > times with a great sense of sadness and disappointment as I > see one > > > or two > > > > people create an atmosphere that causes others to go silent. > Now is > > > not the > > > > first time, but now is the worst I've seen, in my own > experience. > > > > > > > > The moderators of this Raw Food group apparently choose to > moderate in > > > > absentia. That is their right. But I see a clear need for a > group > > > that is > > > > wide open to newcomers and experienced RFs alike AND that > feels just > > > plain > > > > safe. So in the background, several of us have been discussing > > > formation of > > > > a new group, one with similar goals as this one, but one that > is > > > > well-moderated for safety and basic respect and kindness. > > > > > > > > So I'd like to share my idea, to see what others may think ... > and > > > invite > > > > you all to join. > > > > > > > > 1. The name of the new group is Going Raw, to capture the idea > that > > > we are > > > > all always transitioning in some way, that we are all always > on a > > > journey, > > > > each at his/her own place along the way. > > > > > > > > 2. Moderation takes a certain commitment of time and energy. > > > Eventually, no > > > > matter how good someone's intentions are, most people become > weary of > > > > moderating, particularly in a group of this size. Therefore, I > > > propose that > > > > people from the group volunteer to serve as moderators for 3 > months, > > > then > > > > pass the baton to others. Janet FitzGerald has volunteered to > take > > > on a lead > > > > role during this formative period and to stick around for the > long > > term. > > > > Several others have already volunteered to serve for a 3-month > > > period, and I > > > > feel confident that we'll always have people willing to do so. > > > > > > > > As long as we have 2-3 active moderators at any point in time, > then > > > there is > > > > never a problem if one moderator is busy, traveling, or the > like. > > > > > > > > Who can volunteer? Absolutely anyone ... it would truly be an > act of > > > > service!!! We can train anyone to be a moderator, it's easy, > even > > > for the > > > > " technically constrained " among us. :) > > > > > > > > How can you volunteer? Simple ... just write to > > > > GoingRaw-owner and let us know you'd like to > help > > out. > > > > > > > > If you wish to try out this solution, just click on > > > > <http://health.GoingRaw/> > > > > http://health.GoingRaw/, then click on > the Join > > > > button. We monitor all requests to join the group. For > everyone here > > > (with > > > > one or two obvious exceptions), just type something > like " Coming > > > from the > > > > Raw Food group " and we'll understand and approve you right > away. > > > > > > > > I invite your feedback about this solution, whether here in the > > group or > > > > privately at GoingRaw-owner Meanwhile, let's > just > > > begin!!! > > > > > > > > Best to all, > > > > Elchanan > > > > > > > > PS: One more point. Most of you are aware that I am involved in > > another > > > > group called PathOfHealth, and you may wonder if this new > group will > > > turn > > > > out to be a clone of that one. The answer is " no " . This new > group will > > > > preserve the general intent of the existing Raw Food group > (perhaps > > > updated > > > > with a tweak here or there) to provide an open, entry-level > > > discussion forum > > > > about raw food, health, and the like. It's all described on > the home > > > page. > > > > And sharing the moderating role will only help to preserve the > > > openness of > > > > the group, over time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 2, 2008 Report Share Posted January 2, 2008 Hi Everyone, Just to let you know, Bob Farrel and I will be moderating the Going Raw group for at least the next few months. We'll be asking others to fill in as moderators and rotating them every three months. My intention as a moderator is to emulate the RawFoods group and to keep name calling and mudslinging, otherwise known as " flaming " , at bay. It is also my/our goal to engage the use of common netiquette. For instance, moderators will politely ask that people use subject headings to reflect the content of the post, label OT topics, trim posts, etc. This will help, not hinder the group. If and when posts are potentially inflammatory, it is my goal to politely ask the author of the post to re-word the post if it is caught by moderation (won't always be the case). So, if someone has a history of flaming, yes, they may be placed on moderation, and likely only temporarily. This is similar to writing an emotional letter to someone, putting it away for a day, then re-writing it after the emotions have had time to settle. Good moderation requires attention and care. Keep in mind that Laurie effectively silenced this group with his relentless rantings. Sure, there have been others who have flamed, but so many wonderful exchanges did NOT take place in lieu of the self censorship that took place during his stormy tenor here. I, too, was attacked and chose not to respond. In addition, I chose not to post anything to the group for some time. We all have something valuable to share with the group and it is my intent to facilitate and nurture that ongoing exchange. So, if any of you feel a need for a safe place to discuss all matters pertaining to a raw vegan lifestyle, please do join us! http://health.GoingRaw/ My best, Janet rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully wrote: I agree if you hava a problem with someone talktto them separately.That would help loulin3 <Joyloulin wrote: This group has ov er 3,000 members... but ACTIVE ones are few. It's like voters in America - not many active and they have a strong voice. I can truly understand the frustration of not being responded to. However I do know that name calling and hollering lourder sometimes gets us the opposite of what we want. The person we are tryiing to connect with shuts down. I would say much of this conversatin shoulde have been between the parties off line. Perhaps we can agree if we have something personal and it gets us upset with ONE party that we would take that part of the conversation off line until it can be settled between the 2 parties. If one decides to disconnect then that must be respected.... I say on to the next... the world is full of people to connect with. Often a 3rd party can cause more confusion and add more to disagreement than settling the dispute. I've found if the 2 parties involved can talk - it may take time sorting things out - persistance is the key - then things settle down. Not always of course. The exception to this is if one party is on mood altering drugs and that can include any alcohol even moderately or even some foods can be mood altering. My 2 cents. Louise rawfood , " Beth Mouser " <mouser4@> wrote: Personally, I would like for this group to stay intact and open without moderators. Moderators may not post your messages if they don't like your viewpoint or even have some sort of past " beef " with you. I do like the challenges to various viewpoints. Knowing all viewpoints and sides to an issue, whether it is religion or diet, is something I like to seek. I do not like all of the ridiculous name- calling either, but in between the slurs, I think there are some valid questions being asked, possibly from a very frustrated person wanting some sort of acknowledgment. Can't we all agree as a group that we will ignore Laurie's posts and questions until he starts communicating in a manner that is less offensive? If he gets no attention whatsoever from these posts, I think they will stop. Are we going to give him the satisfaction of knowing he had the power to shut down or change our group? Beth - In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully@> wrote: no one has to 'follow' him anywhere is they are happy here however, there has been a lot of negativity here and NO ONE should stoop to name calling and such rudeness as has been displayed here. If anyone disagrees with someone, great say so and why and also be willing to say where your expertise comes from since that seems to be often asked for from Elchnan. It can be done in a nice way. I do not like the rudeness and name calling, that is all this says about me emusedmary <emusedmary@> wrote: Terri, of course we are capapble of finding things on our own/findour own path but many hwere have been the victim ofhis condescension an mood of the day which results in negativity and so does neglect and then where is the list of anyones degree-E or L? i think that Elchanan too has said things to the effect that this type of knowledge can be self taught see you have seen my post as an attack why???? because I said I am happy here and will not follow elchanan that reveals much about you- Em -- In rawfood , Terry Bakhtiari <pablobully@> wrote: this is exactly why many people sit back and do not post. You do not have to agree with Elchanan or anyone for that matter but there is no need for attacks and name calling which is what has been happening repeatedly. Everyone is entitled to how they believe is the best path and can come here to share it and those who choose to research and then either follow that or not is great. But when someone is nasty in their demands for answers who wants to respond to them? If someone angrily demanded things and calling me names then I wouldn't respond to them either. And as far as the things that Elchanan shares here, some of us feel like we are smart enough and capable enough to research on our own to either verify or disagree with what he has said but DO NOT feel the need to attack or take up so much of everyone's time with all this negativity. And where is Laurie's list of degrees and proof that she is right and Elchnan is wrong? I read what each say then research on my own. This has gotten ridiculous. Why can't you or Laurie or anyone when they disagree just say I respectfully disagree due to whatever and move on. Let the rest of us decideon our own without email after email of name calling and rudeness and get back to something more productive. Sorry this turned into so long a message but enough is enough. Agreeor disagree and let's get back to why we are supposed to be here. This isn't a debateforum. it is supposed to be a place where many have chosen different paths and they share with all and then we decide if we agree or disagree. But who wants to share here when you are going to be attacked constantly. I am no expert in rawfoods but I am capable of research and making decisions for what is best for my own health. emusedmary <emusedmary@> wrote: -Elchanan, since I have been rejected from your path of health group opting out of having (your version of)the spanish inquisition'i will not follow you anywhere If you start a new group because you want to feel safe from having to answer someone's very direct questions~ then fine start that group start as many that will make you feel loved I don't know that you have discovered the unconditional kind anyway I was waiting for you to come outof your corner and answer Lauries questions..... what I saw was you opting out- opting out is always a choice i realize buti never felt anger from laurie's posts just her wanting some logical answers instead of some thread that would glorify you good luck with your new list Em-- In rawfood , " Elchanan " <Elchanan@> wrote: Greetings everyone, I write this message with mixed feelings about the past and warm enthusiasm regarding the future. Since I first learned of this Raw Food discussion group nearly 3 years ago, I have watched with great joy as many, many people experienced this place as an excellent entry point into the world of raw food and, in a larger sense, to new approaches to healthful living. At the same time, I have watched at times with a great sense of sadness and disappointment as I see one or two people create an atmosphere that causes others to go silent. Now is not the first time, but now is the worst I've seen, in my own experience. The moderators of this Raw Food group apparently choose to moderate in absentia. That is their right. But I see a clear need for a group that is wide open to newcomers and experienced RFs alike AND that feels just plain safe. So in the background, several of us have been discussing formation of a new group, one with similar goals as this one, but one that is well-moderated for safety and basic respect and kindness. So I'd like to share my idea, to see what others may think ... and invite you all to join. 1. The name of the new group is Going Raw, to capture the idea that we are all always transitioning in some way, that we are all always on a journey, each at his/her own place along the way. 2. Moderation takes a certain commitment of time and energy. Eventually, no matter how good someone's intentions are, most people become weary of moderating, particularly in a group of this size. Therefore, I propose that people from the group volunteer to serve as moderators for 3 months, then pass the baton to others. Janet FitzGerald has volunteered to take on a lead role during this formative period and to stick around for the long term. Several others have already volunteered to serve for a 3-month period, and I feel confident that we'll always have people willing to do so. As long as we have 2-3 active moderators at any point in time, then there is never a problem if one moderator is busy, traveling, or the like. Who can volunteer? Absolutely anyone ... it would truly be an act of service!!! We can train anyone to be a moderator, it's easy, even for the " technically constrained " among us. :) How can you volunteer? Simple ... just write to GoingRaw-owner and let us know you'd like to help out. If you wish to try out this solution, just click on <http://health.GoingRaw/> http://health.GoingRaw/, then click on the Join button. We monitor all requests to join the group. For everyone here (with one or two obvious exceptions), just type something like " Coming from the Raw Food group " and we'll understand and approve you right away. I invite your feedback about this solution, whether here in the group or privately at GoingRaw-owner Meanwhile, let's just begin!!! Best to all, Elchanan PS: One more point. Most of you are aware that I am involved in another group called PathOfHealth, and you may wonder if this new group will turn out to be a clone of that one. The answer is " no " . This new group will preserve the general intent of the existing Raw Food group (perhaps updated with a tweak here or there) to provide an open, entry-level discussion forum about raw food, health, and the like. It's all described on the home page. And sharing the moderating role will only help to preserve the openness of the group, over time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 4, 2008 Report Share Posted January 4, 2008 Greetings and Happy New Year to all! I know I pop in and out of the group (it is due to health issues) but I eventually read most e-mails and catch up. I know I have posed questions and then disappeared with no response to your helpful answers and inquires because when my health declines I just can’t concentrate enough to stay involved in the group and I eventually just end up reading 100’s of e-mails until I catch up again. I will try harder to keep up and hopefully participate more. I am conflicted about the new group forming so I will probably join both until I find which place feels best. I did not think we should have had to start another group due to that one person joining and the negatively they were spouting. But it did silence the group. So for now, both seems my best option. Trish Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2008 Report Share Posted January 5, 2008 Hi Trish, Do you have your groups set to digest? That might help. I often scan for topics I'm interested in, and only read those messages. Regarding the two groups, I think as long as people self-moderate themselves, both of the groups will be fruitful. However, experience tells me that eventually someone will come along... Janet rawfood , Trish <moonsunsnow wrote: Greetings and Happy New Year to all! I know I pop in and out of the group (it is due to health issues) but I eventually read most e-mails and catch up. I know I have posed questions and then disappeared with no response to your helpful answers and inquires because when my health declines I just can't concentrate enough to stay involved in the group and I eventually just end up reading 100's of e-mails until I catch up again. I will try harder to keep up and hopefully participate more. I am conflicted about the new group forming so I will probably join both until I find which place feels best. I did not think we should have had to start another group due to that one person joining and the negatively they were spouting. But it did silence the group. So for now, both seems my best option. Trish Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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