Interjection Freemasonry & Satanism???

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@o...> wrote:

 

> His religious beliefs clearly do more than cloud his judgement, and

>he bases every argument on his faith, rather than on any form of

>fact - where fact goes against his belief, he just ignore is.

 

Sorry to intrude, this conversation is fasinating even from the side

lines. But I just gotta say this... When does religion ever not cloud

the judgment? I was under the I'm pression that the two we one and

the same. That religion was faith based as opposed to fact based,

and that any one who claimed to " know " anything for certain was

practicing a religion in unto themselves reguardless of creed or

organization.

 

It seems to me that the nature of a religion is to assume a thing is

true and in so doing ignore all other possibilities. And if a

religion fails to do this it fails to be a religion. That's why I

don't concider the UU's to be a " religious " organization rather

organized agnostisism. Because even those who profess a belief and

aknowledge the posibility that another may be equally valid cease to

be faithful to thier own, and therefore no longer practice that

religion but engage in agnosticism.

 

Sieks (forgive the mispelling) are another seemingly organized

agnosticism. And Free Masonry seems to me to be headed down the same

road with the exception of the beliefe in the certainty of the

existance of a supreme being of one sort or another. Incidently

several of the " fonding fathers " we both unitarians and free-masons.

And for better or worse all but one of the presidents of the US we

Free-Mason and even that pres was a member of several " seretive "

societies. I'm of the opininon that Free-masonry isn't Evil in unto

itself, and any time a group is secritive it draws suspision warented

of not. Let's not for get the the Knights Templar, the attributed

origin of free-masonry was vertually exterminated in the 14th century

by a pope who feared them for there liberal interpritation of " the

faith " and there ever increasing power that came as a result of it.

They were accused of many thing, homosexuality, heresy, Satanism

(which at that time was any form of unorthidox worship, including

paganism).

 

I'm not saying it's impossible that there are " satanist " among Free-

Masons but we have to remember what satanism is really. It's that

antithesis of Christianity, and noting more than a part of that

religious system, and no less valid than Christianity itself, one

might consider it yet another form of protestantism, a group of

Christians that desided that the Mother Church was interprating that

scriptures 'wrong'. It appeares, after 19 centuries, that the only

truth that can be distiled out of christianity is that there is

no 'right' way to interprate scripture.

 

It seems to me that most Christians confuse any thing that doesn't

follow thier beliefe system along at least the major doctrinal lines

with Satanic. As a mater of fact not to long ago I heard a person

denounce catholisism as " not christian " . Correct me if I'm wrong but

Christians of every denomination, with the exception of the Gnostics

and Coptics owe their faith directly to Roman Catholisism and to say

such a thing would be to say that any splinter of it was also " not

Christian " .

 

It's these beliefe that led me to throw of the yoke of faith

altogheter, and to cast a wary eye on anything that even appeared to

be " faith " based. Faith is the irrational beliefe in the

unprovable.

[Guest guest]

Hi David

 

> Sorry to intrude, this conversation is fasinating even from the side

> lines. But I just gotta say this... When does religion ever not cloud

> the judgment?

 

Very true - but when commenting on something from the point of view of an

historian, it is important to try our best to not allow our religious faith

to govern our historical views. Of course, faith / belief will always inform

our views of history, but to give an example of what I mean... I follow a

" neo-Pagan " form of religion, and as such have complete faith in the power

of magick. However, when discussing the history of witchcraft, I would be

careful to not argue for or against whether witches actually perform magick,

but rather concentrate on the perceptions of witches and those around them.

In other words, I would take an academic approach ratehr than a faith based

approach, and I would hope that anyone with a PhD (which Veith claims to

have) would be able to distinguish academic research from religious bias.

 

> It seems to me that the nature of a religion is to assume a thing is

> true and in so doing ignore all other possibilities. And if a

> religion fails to do this it fails to be a religion. That's why I

> don't concider the UU's to be a " religious " organization rather

> organized agnostisism. Because even those who profess a belief and

> aknowledge the posibility that another may be equally valid cease to

> be faithful to thier own, and therefore no longer practice that

> religion but engage in agnosticism.

 

I think this has been a criticism which could be levelled at what I consider

to be " old-style " religious groups. However, I believe there is a perfectly

reasonable middle ground... that is, that everyone who is on a spiritual

path is investigating an infinity of possibilities, and therefore may find

any of a multitude of different truths. Furthermore, that we currently exist

in a physical realm, and our physical minds can not cope with working

outside of that framework - therefore, when we are on a spiritual path,

which is, by definition, beyond the physical, our physical minds will do its

best to interpret those experiences in a physical way. Therefore, two people

may have a very similar spiritual experience, but interpret that into the

physical world in vastly different ways.

 

> Sieks (forgive the mispelling) are another seemingly organized

> agnosticism. And Free Masonry seems to me to be headed down the same

> road with the exception of the beliefe in the certainty of the

> existance of a supreme being of one sort or another. Incidently

> several of the " fonding fathers " we both unitarians and free-masons.

 

In fact, just about everyone involved in the independence of America was

connected to Freemasonry... from the Generals and soldiers, to the founding

fathers, to people in various political positions, to members of the British

Royal family and parliament, etc, etc.

 

> And for better or worse all but one of the presidents of the US we

> Free-Mason and even that pres was a member of several " seretive "

> societies.

 

That's fairly debatable. Manly Hall makes some fairly unfounded claims on

the membership of Presidents, etc. I've researched several of the

Presidents, and would be happy to say that at least 25 have been Freemasons.

Of the ones I've looked into, there's no evidence that Jefferson was a

Freemason, and Van Buren seems not to have been. Several others seem to have

suggestion of Freemasonic affiliation, but no direct evidence.

 

> I'm of the opininon that Free-masonry isn't Evil in unto

> itself, and any time a group is secritive it draws suspision warented

> of not. Let's not for get the the Knights Templar, the attributed

> origin of free-masonry was vertually exterminated in the 14th century

> by a pope who feared them for there liberal interpritation of " the

> faith " and there ever increasing power that came as a result of it.

> They were accused of many thing, homosexuality, heresy, Satanism

> (which at that time was any form of unorthidox worship, including

> paganism).

 

My personal favourite was the accusation of worshipping a cat :-)

 

I think there is good reason to suspect a link between Templars and

Freemasonry... but more through the " building " arm of the Templars - the

Children of Solomon, who were responsible for most of the Gothic Cathedrals

in France... and were also known amongst the Templars as " brothers of the

house " ... or, in French, " Frere Maison " (has a familiar ring to it!)

 

> I'm not saying it's impossible that there are " satanist " among Free-

> Masons but we have to remember what satanism is really. It's that

> antithesis of Christianity, and noting more than a part of that

> religious system, and no less valid than Christianity itself, one

> might consider it yet another form of protestantism, a group of

> Christians that desided that the Mother Church was interprating that

> scriptures 'wrong'. It appeares, after 19 centuries, that the only

> truth that can be distiled out of christianity is that there is

> no 'right' way to interprate scripture.

 

Particularly in the modern world... how can anyone come up with a definitive

interpretation of scripture? Even things which are written in our own

language have vast differences of interpretation depending on who has

written it, who is reading it, and even what mood the reader is in... how

much more complex when most of the languages are not even spoken in the

modern world, and we haven't even got basic knowledge of the characters of

the writers.

 

> It's these beliefe that led me to throw of the yoke of faith

> altogheter, and to cast a wary eye on anything that even appeared to

> be " faith " based. Faith is the irrational beliefe in the

> unprovable.

 

Surely any belief in the unprovable is irrational? Isn't that what the word

means? ... but isn't rationality defined by what is acceptable in any given

society - what is rational in a modern, Western, scientific society would

seem completely irrational to, say, a modern Tungusk Shaman. Rationality is

really only a matter of perspective.

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

-

" David Brown " <quickformgreen

 

Saturday, April 10, 2004 7:47 PM

<Interjection> Re: Freemasonry & Satanism???

 

 

> , " Peter " <metalscarab@o...> wrote:

>

> > His religious beliefs clearly do more than cloud his judgement, and

> >he bases every argument on his faith, rather than on any form of

> >fact.>

 

When does sound religious not clearly spoke a wisdom that a human can claim

to surpass, regarding the best way to live etc?

 

Most exception people,genius's etc usually look out first.. rather than in

for what ever they are looking for.

Can something come from nothing? Mathematically Can a God be disproven?

 

>

> Sorry to intrude, this conversation is fasinating even from the side

> lines. But I just gotta say this... When does religion ever not cloud

> the judgment?

 

When does sound religion not have clear good teachings?

 

> Sieks (forgive the mispelling) are another seemingly organized

> agnosticism. And Free Masonry seems to me to be headed down the same

> road with the exception of the beliefe in the certainty of the

> existance of a supreme being of one sort or another.

 

The infomation I have on Freemasonary is that it is a satanic supreme being

they believe in.

If that is not the case...are there any freemasons around that would like to

tell us who your supreme being is? A goodie or a baddie? I'm sure you take

the humour in good faith. Your reputation as a dangerous force to be

reckoned with..is it true? or are you an good force who cares for humanity?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but

> Christians of every denomination, with the exception of the Gnostics

> and Coptics owe their faith directly to Roman Catholisism and to say

> such a thing would be to say that any splinter of it was also " not

> Christian " .

 

Yes some believe because the Catholic faith has a strong -hold on the other

churches.... that Christianity has been hi-jacked. Catholicism is probably

more pagan than Christian.

when you look at it's practices.

The Seventh Day Adventists claim no part of Catholicism. they encourage a

veggie diet too.

Catholicism seems to contradict the Bible on many accounts...Idol worship

( statue worship) changing the Sabbath day to sunday, putting men in place

of God to forgive sins, other things as well.

The SDV believe the pope represents the anti- christ..as his name in

roman numerals spell out 666 in latin...as was used in those days. It might

not be so bad..if they use someone who didn't look like they were on their

last legs and who didn't just recite a script. ( God rest their souls).

 

Simon

 

 

 

..

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Simon

 

> The infomation I have on Freemasonary is that it is a satanic supreme

being

> they believe in.

 

Well, I suppose the same thing has been said by Jews about Christians and by

Christians about Muslims.

 

However, I do have one question... how many Freemasons have you spoken to?

Or have you simply believed what their enemies have told you?

 

BB

Peter