RE: [100% veg*n ] Alzheimer's=CJD???

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Ian

I will have to dig around a bit but I can support my theory

give me a week or two

and Catherine I meant no disrespect either

all the best

Craig

Ian McDonald [ian]Monday, April 26, 2004 12:19 AM Subject: Re: Re: [100% veg*n ] Alzheimers=CJD???catherine:> before 1900 most people died at or before 60, so alzheimers would have been less prevalent > due to the nature of the> population.......Craig Dearth wrote:> > not trueObviously, you're not arguing from evidence, but predicting somethingbased on your hypothesis about Alzheimers being a prion disease.> BSE seems to be incubate in relation to the lifespan of the animal in> which has consumed it> cows it takes about 5-8 years> humans about 20Catherine was talking about Dementias in general, not Alzheimers, andyou only seem to be claiming a prion link for Alzheimers. Remember, thethread is "Alzheimers=CJD" (I'm no expert, but from what I know theAlzheimers and CJD have very different symptoms anyway).As it happens, my recollection is that Dementias were common pre-1900,but this is only based on dimly remembered anecdotal evidence. It soundslike Catherine is speaking from survey evidence (the word is'epidemiological'), and I'd change my mind if she produced convincingevidence.> the on set of dementia on a large scale didn't start happening till> after world war IIWhat are your reasons for saying this? (I'm really looking for a sourceI can follow up here.) It doesn't match with my recollection.> which just happens to coincide with when they started feeding animal> parts back to the WRONG animalsI'll trust you on that one; it sounds feasible. However, your hypothesis (that Alzheimers is a prion disesase) wouldpredict that Alzheimers (not dementia in general) would risedramatically in all adult age groups (older than the twenty-yearincubation period) starting in the late 1960s (twenty years afterpost-WWII start of factory farming). Your data do not agree with yourhypothesis.If you really want to discuss this, then you might want to take it toivu-sci, the International Vegetarian Union's scientific discussiongroup. But honestly, I don't think there's any point, because I don'tthink you're supplying reasons for thinking Alzheimers is eitherspecifically new form CJD or in general a prion disease.To send an email to -

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Ian this message was posted prior to Catherine's comment

 

Craig

 

 

DYING FOR A HAMBURGER HOW MODERN MEAT-PACKING LED TO AN EPIDEMIC OFALZHEIMER'S DISEASE: "Dr. Murray Waldman, in collaboration with writerMarjorie Lamb, sets out to show that Alzheimer's is, indeed, a deadlymodern plague. They present startling evidence that Alzheimer's is one of afamily of diseases caused by a malformed protein - or prion - that alsocauses mad cow disease and its human variant, Cruetzfeld-Jakob disease(CJD). Could Alzheimer's, like CJD, be caused by tainted beef? In thiscompelling exposition, the authors come to a frightening conclusion aboutour seemingly insatiable hunger for hamburger."Before about 1900 Alzheimer's disease did not exist, or if it did, was sorare as not to be noticed. But just over a hundred years ago, Alzheimer'sdisease was unknown, and most people did not know anyone who exhibited thesymptoms of dementia that are now all too familiar to the families andfriends of victims. Alzheimer's disease (AD) now afflicts 15 million peoplearound the world, including 250,000 Canadians and 4.5 million Americans.One in 10 persons over 65 and nearly half of those over 85 have thedisease. More significantly, the number of people with dementia isexpected to increase steadily over the next 25 years: in Canada, 10,000 newcases of AD are diagnosed each year - 27 cases per day."[Edited from the book summaries and the excerpt below:http://www.mcclelland.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=0771087659http://www.thebukowskiagency.com/DyingForAHamburger.htm

Ian McDonald [ian]Monday, April 26, 2004 12:19 AM Subject: Re: Re: [100% veg*n ] Alzheimers=CJD???catherine:> before 1900 most people died at or before 60, so alzheimers would have been less prevalent > due to the nature of the> population.......Craig Dearth wrote:> > not trueObviously, you're not arguing from evidence, but predicting somethingbased on your hypothesis about Alzheimers being a prion disease.> BSE seems to be incubate in relation to the lifespan of the animal in> which has consumed it> cows it takes about 5-8 years> humans about 20Catherine was talking about Dementias in general, not Alzheimers, andyou only seem to be claiming a prion link for Alzheimers. Remember, thethread is "Alzheimers=CJD" (I'm no expert, but from what I know theAlzheimers and CJD have very different symptoms anyway).As it happens, my recollection is that Dementias were common pre-1900,but this is only based on dimly remembered anecdotal evidence. It soundslike Catherine is speaking from survey evidence (the word is'epidemiological'), and I'd change my mind if she produced convincingevidence.> the on set of dementia on a large scale didn't start happening till> after world war IIWhat are your reasons for saying this? (I'm really looking for a sourceI can follow up here.) It doesn't match with my recollection.> which just happens to coincide with when they started feeding animal> parts back to the WRONG animalsI'll trust you on that one; it sounds feasible. However, your hypothesis (that Alzheimers is a prion disesase) wouldpredict that Alzheimers (not dementia in general) would risedramatically in all adult age groups (older than the twenty-yearincubation period) starting in the late 1960s (twenty years afterpost-WWII start of factory farming). Your data do not agree with yourhypothesis.If you really want to discuss this, then you might want to take it toivu-sci, the International Vegetarian Union's scientific discussiongroup. But honestly, I don't think there's any point, because I don'tthink you're supplying reasons for thinking Alzheimers is eitherspecifically new form CJD or in general a prion disease.To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

hi all

i was using the 1901 UK census info available at the Public Records Office website for the opinion i offered about age

catherine

>"Craig Dearth" <cd39 > > >RE: Re: [100% veg*n ] Alzheimer's=CJD??? >Mon, 26 Apr 2004 04:43:04 +0800 > >Ian >I will have to dig around a bit but I can support my theory >give me a week or two >and Catherine I meant no disrespect either >all the best >Craig > >Ian McDonald [ian] >Monday, April 26, 2004 12:19 AM > >Re: Re: [100% veg*n ] Alzheimers=CJD??? > > > >catherine: > > before 1900 most people died at or before 60, so alzheimers would have >been less prevalent > > due to the nature of the > > population....... > >Craig Dearth wrote: > > > > not true > >Obviously, you're not arguing from evidence, but predicting something >based on your hypothesis about Alzheimers being a prion disease. > > > BSE seems to be incubate in relation to the lifespan of the animal in > > which has consumed it > > cows it takes about 5-8 years > > humans about 20 > >Catherine was talking about Dementias in general, not Alzheimers, and >you only seem to be claiming a prion link for Alzheimers. Remember, the >thread is "Alzheimers=CJD" (I'm no expert, but from what I know the >Alzheimers and CJD have very different symptoms anyway). > >As it happens, my recollection is that Dementias were common pre-1900, >but this is only based on dimly remembered anecdotal evidence. It sounds >like Catherine is speaking from survey evidence (the word is >'epidemiological'), and I'd change my mind if she produced convincing >evidence. > > > the on set of dementia on a large scale didn't start happening till > > after world war II > >What are your reasons for saying this? (I'm really looking for a source >I can follow up here.) It doesn't match with my recollection. > > > which just happens to coincide with when they started feeding animal > > parts back to the WRONG animals > >I'll trust you on that one; it sounds feasible. > >However, your hypothesis (that Alzheimers is a prion disesase) would >predict that Alzheimers (not dementia in general) would rise >dramatically in all adult age groups (older than the twenty-year >incubation period) starting in the late 1960s (twenty years after >post-WWII start of factory farming). Your data do not agree with your >hypothesis. > >If you really want to discuss this, then you might want to take it to >ivu-sci, the International Vegetarian Union's scientific discussion >group. But honestly, I don't think there's any point, because I don't >think you're supplying reasons for thinking Alzheimers is either >specifically new form CJD or in general a prion disease. > > >To send an email to - > > > >---------- >---- >

[Guest guest]

> Craig Dearth wrote:

>

> Ian this message was posted prior to Catherine's comment

>

> Craig

 

Thanks.

 

I don't think we should believe something just because it's on the blurb

for a book written by a medic and a journalist. I think I remember

literary references to dementia before the 20th century, so I don't

believe

that claim. (Medical training is about diagnosis and treatment: it

doesn't

necessarily mean someone can form and test a hypothesis, or critically

read a scientific paper.)

 

It's also suspicious that they published a book rather than a peer-

-reviewed paper.

 

The blurb doesn't speak to Craig's claim that " the onset of Dementia on

a

large scale didn't start happening until after world war II " .

 

>

> DYING FOR A HAMBURGER HOW MODERN MEAT-PACKING LED TO AN EPIDEMIC OF

> ALZHEIMER'S DISEASE: " Dr. Murray Waldman, in collaboration with writer

> Marjorie Lamb, sets out to show that Alzheimer's is, indeed, a deadly

> modern plague. They present startling evidence that Alzheimer's is one

> of a

> family of diseases caused by a malformed protein - or prion - that

> also

> causes mad cow disease and its human variant, Cruetzfeld-Jakob disease

> (CJD). Could Alzheimer's, like CJD, be caused by tainted beef? In this

> compelling exposition, the authors come to a frightening conclusion

> about

> our seemingly insatiable hunger for hamburger.

>

> " Before about 1900 Alzheimer's disease did not exist, or if it did,

> was so

> rare as not to be noticed. But just over a hundred years ago,

> Alzheimer's

> disease was unknown, and most people did not know anyone who exhibited

> the

> symptoms of dementia that are now all too familiar to the families and

> friends of victims. Alzheimer's disease (AD) now afflicts 15 million

> people

> around the world, including 250,000 Canadians and 4.5 million

> Americans.

> One in 10 persons over 65 and nearly half of those over 85 have the

> disease. More significantly, the number of people with dementia is

> expected to increase steadily over the next 25 years: in Canada,

> 10,000 new

> cases of AD are diagnosed each year - 27 cases per day. "

>

> [Edited from the book summaries and the excerpt below:

> http://www.mcclelland.com/catalog/display.pperl?isbn=0771087659

> http://www.thebukowskiagency.com/DyingForAHamburger.htm

>