vegan children & a meat-eating partner

[Guest guest]

I agree completly with everything you said. I think it is important that if you have children that you either find some way to make it balanced for the child to know that dad eats death (sorry... meat) and mum eats plant sourced food. I have been extremely curious that if i were to raise my kids veggie or vegan (not that i would be having kids any time soon anyway) but if they were to go to friends houses if their parents would feed my (hypothetical) kids animal products. How would i react to that? How could i prevent it? Its a tricky dilemma. Would I not let my kids go to sleep overs? Its all very hypothetical but I guess i worry about what would happen in the future surrounding this sort of thing.

 

Anyway, i think you (samantha) have a lot of thinking to do on the issue. It seems apparent that being vegan is incredibly important to you (as it is for probably all of us) becuase it isnt just a food choice and what you choose to eat every day, but rather it is a life choice. If you think about it- most everything we do revolves around our being vegan. What food we buy, where we go out to eat, what clothes we buy, cars we purchase, shampoo, etc (you all get the picture) So i think that ian is right, he cant expect you to be accepting of his omnivorism when he clearly (and you can tell me if i am wrong here) doesnt understand the depths to which your life revolves around this incredibly noble and important choice in life.

 

I hope we all helped in some way.

 

Jen

 

(ps... ian- i call my mother "mummuy" i was suprised to see someone else use that term haha)

 

 

 

In a message dated 5/22/2004 3:53:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time, ian writes:

Hi Sam,I think that this is the killer issue for mixed vegan/meat-eaterrelationships. You can love and respect each other until the cows comehome*, but when you raise children together you need some kind ofconsensus on what code of ethics you bring them up with. Samantha Demers wrote:> > In the car tonight I brought up something to my boyfriend that has> been in my mind for awhile. I definitely want to raise my> children...when i do have them...vegan. I said to him...the meat> eater...hypathetically speaking, if we were to get married and have> kids, how would you feel about me raising them vegan? i said and then> when they are older, obviously they can make their own decisions.I'm not sure how well this is going to work. Daddy is paying for thesuffering and death of our fellow creatures. Mummy says we should loveour fellow creatures. However you gloss over it in conversations infront of the children, they'll twig there's a massive incompatibility.On the other hand, there are probably people on the list who *have*raised children in mixed vegan/meatie marriages and can tell me it *has*worked, and I guess they should be telling us how they did it ...> they are older. i think to raise them pure and with no animals in> them, then that is the best way to do it, you can't take back what> they once put inside of them. This is about the purity of the person, not about the welfare ofanimals. I think that if your children grow up to be vegan, they shouldunderstand that Daddy ate meat and not blame you for him feeding themdead animals.> cook it himself. he said fine, if that's the way, then it would be> the same and i wouldn't buy any vegan foods. not meaning buy as in> money, but just pick the stuff up, because obviously we would be> sharing the money. This meme - "I respect your veganism, so you should respect myomnivorism" - annoys me a lot. We think that indiscriminate meat-eatingis wrong. They think that veganism is, at worst, eccentric. In arelationship, you should respect each other as people, but that doesn'tmean that you respect every single choice the other makes, or viceversa.He also seems to have forgotten that (i) he can eat vegan foods, (ii) ifhe eats a healthy omnivorous diet, three-quarters of it will be vegananyway.Of course, it sounds like you were having an argument, and people do saythings in arguments that aren't always that well thought out.> pushing him into it...which i never do, but because i started saying> how i don't understand how he thinks it is fine to kill and torture> animals just to satisfy your tastebuds he says that i shouldn't say it> that way. out of sight, out of mind seems to be his motto.That's fairly common for omnivores who haven't seriously thought aboutit.I'd be tempted to ask how he'd like you say that he pays people to killand mistreat animals just to satisfy his tastebuds.> also just a little thing before i go...if you reply to this, please> don't say anything bad about my boyfriend, i guess i did present his> case to be bad, but still i don't want to read anything bashing or> anything like that on him. just incase anybody had an urge to, he is> his own person. the thing is though...i could see him becoming a> vegan evenutally...i'm not sure if that is a bad thing to assume.> once he lets himself actually see what is going on, he tries to hide> it and deny because i think he knows he will cut it all out of his> life once he lets all the truth in.> My last girlfriend ate meat (but not around me). We're still goodfriends,and the last thing I want to do is hold her up for some meatie-bashing,soI know where you're speaking from. I don't think she was ready to dealwiththe issues, and being fairly self-aware, once said that she wasn't readtodeal with the impact of her self-esteem of me telling her the harm her food choices did to animals. (I hope she wouldn't mind me saying this publicly without naming her.)So really good, kind, giving, loving people can be omnivores. But thatdoesn't mean you're going to be compatible .Good luck,Ian*Home, of course, being something other than a farm.

 

 

heart,jen.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sam,

 

I think that this is the killer issue for mixed vegan/meat-eater

relationships. You can love and respect each other until the cows come

home*, but when you raise children together you need some kind of

consensus on what code of ethics you bring them up with.

 

Samantha Demers wrote:

>

> In the car tonight I brought up something to my boyfriend that has

> been in my mind for awhile. I definitely want to raise my

> children...when i do have them...vegan. I said to him...the meat

> eater...hypathetically speaking, if we were to get married and have

> kids, how would you feel about me raising them vegan? i said and then

> when they are older, obviously they can make their own decisions.

 

I'm not sure how well this is going to work. Daddy is paying for the

suffering and death of our fellow creatures. Mummy says we should love

our fellow creatures. However you gloss over it in conversations in

front of the children, they'll twig there's a massive incompatibility.

On the other hand, there are probably people on the list who *have*

raised children in mixed vegan/meatie marriages and can tell me it *has*

worked, and I guess they should be telling us how they did it ...

 

> they are older. i think to raise them pure and with no animals in

> them, then that is the best way to do it, you can't take back what

> they once put inside of them.

 

This is about the purity of the person, not about the welfare of

animals. I think that if your children grow up to be vegan, they should

understand that Daddy ate meat and not blame you for him feeding them

dead animals.

 

> cook it himself. he said fine, if that's the way, then it would be

> the same and i wouldn't buy any vegan foods. not meaning buy as in

> money, but just pick the stuff up, because obviously we would be

> sharing the money.

 

This meme - " I respect your veganism, so you should respect my

omnivorism " - annoys me a lot. We think that indiscriminate meat-eating

is wrong. They think that veganism is, at worst, eccentric. In a

relationship, you should respect each other as people, but that doesn't

mean that you respect every single choice the other makes, or vice

versa.

 

He also seems to have forgotten that (i) he can eat vegan foods, (ii) if

he eats a healthy omnivorous diet, three-quarters of it will be vegan

anyway.

 

Of course, it sounds like you were having an argument, and people do say

things in arguments that aren't always that well thought out.

 

> pushing him into it...which i never do, but because i started saying

> how i don't understand how he thinks it is fine to kill and torture

> animals just to satisfy your tastebuds he says that i shouldn't say it

> that way. out of sight, out of mind seems to be his motto.

 

That's fairly common for omnivores who haven't seriously thought about

it.

 

I'd be tempted to ask how he'd like you say that he pays people to kill

and mistreat animals just to satisfy his tastebuds.

 

> also just a little thing before i go...if you reply to this, please

> don't say anything bad about my boyfriend, i guess i did present his

> case to be bad, but still i don't want to read anything bashing or

> anything like that on him. just incase anybody had an urge to, he is

> his own person. the thing is though...i could see him becoming a

> vegan evenutally...i'm not sure if that is a bad thing to assume.

> once he lets himself actually see what is going on, he tries to hide

> it and deny because i think he knows he will cut it all out of his

> life once he lets all the truth in.

>

 

My last girlfriend ate meat (but not around me). We're still good

friends,

and the last thing I want to do is hold her up for some meatie-bashing,

so

I know where you're speaking from. I don't think she was ready to deal

with

the issues, and being fairly self-aware, once said that she wasn't read

to

deal with the impact of her self-esteem of me telling her the harm her

food choices did to animals. (I hope she wouldn't mind me saying this

publicly without naming her.)

 

So really good, kind, giving, loving people can be omnivores. But that

doesn't mean you're going to be compatible .

 

Good luck,

 

Ian

 

*Home, of course, being something other than a farm.

[Guest guest]

" Jen

 

(ps... ian- i call my mother " mummuy " i was suprised to see someone else

use

that term haha) "

 

Myself, I call her " Mum " . Sorry, but I used " Mummy " and " Daddy " because

in the e-mail because that sentence was meant to be a child's-eye view

of parental diets.

[Guest guest]

This meme - "I respect your veganism, so you should respect myomnivorism" - annoys me a lot.

it also annoys me ---beyond annoys me. i can respect the free choice of anyone who is making a benign decision (i'm of one religion, you're another), but this is something totally different. if i choose to be a member of the KKK (a group that causes FAR less pain and suffering than do meat-eaters) and you choose to be a member of the NAACP, can we agree to disagree and mutually respect one another? hell no! because i would still be wrong, wrong, wrong and in constant efforts to make misery for all my "inferiors." (but it's easier to abolish wrong when the evil is in the minority --- our real-life example is the inverse)...this is not the point i was trying to make...this does not even approach the point i was trying to make... (sometimes i become carried away; excuse me...) :)i just mean that i can see some good in most humans who eat meat, but could NEVER come close to respecting them in full because they aren't making a "to each his own" decision, they're making a decision that results in the violent death of the innocent. i never cease to be baffled by otherwise good and intelligent people who eat other animals. ~brii

>Ian McDonald <ian > > >Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner >Sat, 22 May 2004 11:30:52 +0100 > >Hi Sam, > >I think that this is the killer issue for mixed vegan/meat-eater >relationships. You can love and respect each other until the cows come >home*, but when you raise children together you need some kind of >consensus on what code of ethics you bring them up with. > >Samantha Demers wrote: > > > > In the car tonight I brought up something to my boyfriend that has > > been in my mind for awhile. I definitely want to raise my > > children...when i do have them...vegan. I said to him...the meat > > eater...hypathetically speaking, if we were to get married and have > > kids, how would you feel about me raising them vegan? i said and then > > when they are older, obviously they can make their own decisions. > >I'm not sure how well this is going to work. Daddy is paying for the >suffering and death of our fellow creatures. Mummy says we should love >our fellow creatures. However you gloss over it in conversations in >front of the children, they'll twig there's a massive incompatibility. >On the other hand, there are probably people on the list who *have* >raised children in mixed vegan/meatie marriages and can tell me it *has* >worked, and I guess they should be telling us how they did it ... > > > they are older. i think to raise them pure and with no animals in > > them, then that is the best way to do it, you can't take back what > > they once put inside of them. > >This is about the purity of the person, not about the welfare of >animals. I think that if your children grow up to be vegan, they should >understand that Daddy ate meat and not blame you for him feeding them >dead animals. > > > cook it himself. he said fine, if that's the way, then it would be > > the same and i wouldn't buy any vegan foods. not meaning buy as in > > money, but just pick the stuff up, because obviously we would be > > sharing the money. > >This meme - "I respect your veganism, so you should respect my >omnivorism" - annoys me a lot. We think that indiscriminate meat-eating >is wrong. They think that veganism is, at worst, eccentric. In a >relationship, you should respect each other as people, but that doesn't >mean that you respect every single choice the other makes, or vice >versa. > >He also seems to have forgotten that (i) he can eat vegan foods, (ii) if >he eats a healthy omnivorous diet, three-quarters of it will be vegan >anyway. > >Of course, it sounds like you were having an argument, and people do say >things in arguments that aren't always that well thought out. > > > pushing him into it...which i never do, but because i started saying > > how i don't understand how he thinks it is fine to kill and torture > > animals just to satisfy your tastebuds he says that i shouldn't say it > > that way. out of sight, out of mind seems to be his motto. > >That's fairly common for omnivores who haven't seriously thought about >it. > >I'd be tempted to ask how he'd like you say that he pays people to kill >and mistreat animals just to satisfy his tastebuds. > > > also just a little thing before i go...if you reply to this, please > > don't say anything bad about my boyfriend, i guess i did present his > > case to be bad, but still i don't want to read anything bashing or > > anything like that on him. just incase anybody had an urge to, he is > > his own person. the thing is though...i could see him becoming a > > vegan evenutally...i'm not sure if that is a bad thing to assume. > > once he lets himself actually see what is going on, he tries to hide > > it and deny because i think he knows he will cut it all out of his > > life once he lets all the truth in. > > > >My last girlfriend ate meat (but not around me). We're still good >friends, >and the last thing I want to do is hold her up for some meatie-bashing, >so >I know where you're speaking from. I don't think she was ready to deal >with >the issues, and being fairly self-aware, once said that she wasn't read >to >deal with the impact of her self-esteem of me telling her the harm her >food choices did to animals. (I hope she wouldn't mind me saying this >publicly without naming her.) > >So really good, kind, giving, loving people can be omnivores. But that >doesn't mean you're going to be compatible . > >Good luck, > >Ian > >*Home, of course, being something other than a farm. Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from MSN Money.

[Guest guest]

hi all

 

ican only speak for myself, but last year i ended a long relationship with a

meat eater....at first he was accepting of my vegetarianism, as it was at

first....but when we moved in together, he put extreme pressure on me to

cook meat........it became a source of his being stubborn and completely

refusing to eat in the house at all because i cooked veggie food, and he

started to only eat take aways, which led to real financial issues......he

wouldnt cook himself.......

 

i would personally not share a house with a meat eater who wanted to buy

meat/cook meat in the house again......opening my fridge now is such sweet

relief because its just vegan stuff completely....

 

i brought my son up veggie(before i became vegan) and he respects my choice,

and cooks veggie on occasion for his family......he is nearly 6ft tall and

not having animal products did him good!!

 

good luck with it!!

 

catherine

 

 

>xjenisveganx

>

>

>Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

>Sat, 22 May 2004 08:28:52 EDT

>

>I agree completly with everything you said. I think it is important that if

>you have children that you either find some way to make it balanced for the

>child to know that dad eats death (sorry... meat) and mum eats plant

>sourced

>food. I have been extremely curious that if i were to raise my kids veggie

>or

>vegan (not that i would be having kids any time soon anyway) but if they

>were to

>go to friends houses if their parents would feed my (hypothetical) kids

>animal

>products. How would i react to that? How could i prevent it? Its a tricky

>dilemma. Would I not let my kids go to sleep overs? Its all very

>hypothetical but

>I guess i worry about what would happen in the future surrounding this sort

>of

>thing.

>

>Anyway, i think you (samantha) have a lot of thinking to do on the issue.

>It

>seems apparent that being vegan is incredibly important to you (as it is

>for

>probably all of us) becuase it isnt just a food choice and what you choose

>to

>eat every day, but rather it is a life choice. If you think about it- most

>everything we do revolves around our being vegan. What food we buy, where

>we go

>out to eat, what clothes we buy, cars we purchase, shampoo, etc (you all

>get the

>picture) So i think that ian is right, he cant expect you to be accepting

>of

>his omnivorism when he clearly (and you can tell me if i am wrong here)

>doesnt

>understand the depths to which your life revolves around this incredibly

>noble and important choice in life.

>

>I hope we all helped in some way.

>

>Jen

>

>(ps... ian- i call my mother " mummuy " i was suprised to see someone else

>use

>that term haha)

>

>

>

>In a message dated 5/22/2004 3:53:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

>ian writes:

>Hi Sam,

>

>I think that this is the killer issue for mixed vegan/meat-eater

>relationships. You can love and respect each other until the cows come

>home*, but when you raise children together you need some kind of

>consensus on what code of ethics you bring them up with.

>

>Samantha Demers wrote:

> >

> > In the car tonight I brought up something to my boyfriend that has

> > been in my mind for awhile. I definitely want to raise my

> > children...when i do have them...vegan. I said to him...the meat

> > eater...hypathetically speaking, if we were to get married and have

> > kids, how would you feel about me raising them vegan? i said and then

> > when they are older, obviously they can make their own decisions.

>

>I'm not sure how well this is going to work. Daddy is paying for the

>suffering and death of our fellow creatures. Mummy says we should love

>our fellow creatures. However you gloss over it in conversations in

>front of the children, they'll twig there's a massive incompatibility.

>On the other hand, there are probably people on the list who *have*

>raised children in mixed vegan/meatie marriages and can tell me it *has*

>worked, and I guess they should be telling us how they did it ...

>

> > they are older. i think to raise them pure and with no animals in

> > them, then that is the best way to do it, you can't take back what

> > they once put inside of them.

>

>This is about the purity of the person, not about the welfare of

>animals. I think that if your children grow up to be vegan, they should

>understand that Daddy ate meat and not blame you for him feeding them

>dead animals.

>

> > cook it himself. he said fine, if that's the way, then it would be

> > the same and i wouldn't buy any vegan foods. not meaning buy as in

> > money, but just pick the stuff up, because obviously we would be

> > sharing the money.

>

>This meme - " I respect your veganism, so you should respect my

>omnivorism " - annoys me a lot. We think that indiscriminate meat-eating

>is wrong. They think that veganism is, at worst, eccentric. In a

>relationship, you should respect each other as people, but that doesn't

>mean that you respect every single choice the other makes, or vice

>versa.

>

>He also seems to have forgotten that (i) he can eat vegan foods, (ii) if

>he eats a healthy omnivorous diet, three-quarters of it will be vegan

>anyway.

>

>Of course, it sounds like you were having an argument, and people do say

>things in arguments that aren't always that well thought out.

>

> > pushing him into it...which i never do, but because i started saying

> > how i don't understand how he thinks it is fine to kill and torture

> > animals just to satisfy your tastebuds he says that i shouldn't say it

> > that way. out of sight, out of mind seems to be his motto.

>

>That's fairly common for omnivores who haven't seriously thought about

>it.

>

>I'd be tempted to ask how he'd like you say that he pays people to kill

>and mistreat animals just to satisfy his tastebuds.

>

> > also just a little thing before i go...if you reply to this, please

> > don't say anything bad about my boyfriend, i guess i did present his

> > case to be bad, but still i don't want to read anything bashing or

> > anything like that on him. just incase anybody had an urge to, he is

> > his own person. the thing is though...i could see him becoming a

> > vegan evenutally...i'm not sure if that is a bad thing to assume.

> > once he lets himself actually see what is going on, he tries to hide

> > it and deny because i think he knows he will cut it all out of his

> > life once he lets all the truth in.

> >

>

>My last girlfriend ate meat (but not around me). We're still good

>friends,

>and the last thing I want to do is hold her up for some meatie-bashing,

>so

>I know where you're speaking from. I don't think she was ready to deal

>with

>the issues, and being fairly self-aware, once said that she wasn't read

>to

>deal with the impact of her self-esteem of me telling her the harm her

>food choices did to animals. (I hope she wouldn't mind me saying this

>publicly without naming her.)

>

>So really good, kind, giving, loving people can be omnivores. But that

>doesn't mean you're going to be compatible .

>

>Good luck,

>

>Ian

>

>*Home, of course, being something other than a farm.

>

>heart,

>jen.

[Guest guest]

well i know that my boyfriend loves to cook, and would never force me to cook non-vegan food for him, or even touch it for that matter. he is understanding, but just doesn't want to do it himself.

 

how long were you two together? did it just all of a sudden come out to work like that? or could you tell a little bit that it would have been like that when you two moved in together.

 

-samanthaCatherine Harris <cait2 wrote:

hi allican only speak for myself, but last year i ended a long relationship with a meat eater....at first he was accepting of my vegetarianism, as it was at first....but when we moved in together, he put extreme pressure on me to cook meat........it became a source of his being stubborn and completely refusing to eat in the house at all because i cooked veggie food, and he started to only eat take aways, which led to real financial issues......he wouldnt cook himself.......i would personally not share a house with a meat eater who wanted to buy meat/cook meat in the house again......opening my fridge now is such sweet relief because its just vegan stuff completely....i brought my son up veggie(before i became vegan) and he respects my choice, and cooks veggie on occasion for his family......he is nearly 6ft tall and not

having animal products did him good!!good luck with it!!catherine>xjenisveganx > >Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner>Sat, 22 May 2004 08:28:52 EDT>>I agree completly with everything you said. I think it is important that if>you have children that you either find some way to make it balanced for the>child to know that dad eats death (sorry... meat) and mum eats plant >sourced>food. I have been extremely curious that if i were to raise my kids veggie >or>vegan (not that i would be having kids any time soon anyway) but if they >were to>go to friends houses if their parents would feed my (hypothetical) kids >animal>products. How would i react to that? How could i prevent it? Its a tricky>dilemma. Would I not let my kids go

to sleep overs? Its all very >hypothetical but>I guess i worry about what would happen in the future surrounding this sort >of>thing.>>Anyway, i think you (samantha) have a lot of thinking to do on the issue. >It>seems apparent that being vegan is incredibly important to you (as it is >for>probably all of us) becuase it isnt just a food choice and what you choose >to>eat every day, but rather it is a life choice. If you think about it- most>everything we do revolves around our being vegan. What food we buy, where >we go>out to eat, what clothes we buy, cars we purchase, shampoo, etc (you all >get the>picture) So i think that ian is right, he cant expect you to be accepting >of>his omnivorism when he clearly (and you can tell me if i am wrong here) >doesnt>understand the depths to which your life revolves around this

incredibly>noble and important choice in life.>>I hope we all helped in some way.>>Jen>>(ps... ian- i call my mother "mummuy" i was suprised to see someone else >use>that term haha)>>>>In a message dated 5/22/2004 3:53:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,>ian writes:>Hi Sam,>>I think that this is the killer issue for mixed vegan/meat-eater>relationships. You can love and respect each other until the cows come>home*, but when you raise children together you need some kind of>consensus on what code of ethics you bring them up with.>>Samantha Demers wrote:> >> > In the car tonight I brought up something to my boyfriend that has> > been in my mind for awhile. I definitely want to raise my> > children...when i do have them...vegan. I said to him...the meat> >

eater...hypathetically speaking, if we were to get married and have> > kids, how would you feel about me raising them vegan? i said and then> > when they are older, obviously they can make their own decisions.>>I'm not sure how well this is going to work. Daddy is paying for the>suffering and death of our fellow creatures. Mummy says we should love>our fellow creatures. However you gloss over it in conversations in>front of the children, they'll twig there's a massive incompatibility.>On the other hand, there are probably people on the list who *have*>raised children in mixed vegan/meatie marriages and can tell me it *has*>worked, and I guess they should be telling us how they did it ...>> > they are older. i think to raise them pure and with no animals in> > them, then that is the best way to do it, you can't take back what> > they once put inside of

them.>>This is about the purity of the person, not about the welfare of>animals. I think that if your children grow up to be vegan, they should>understand that Daddy ate meat and not blame you for him feeding them>dead animals.>> > cook it himself. he said fine, if that's the way, then it would be> > the same and i wouldn't buy any vegan foods. not meaning buy as in> > money, but just pick the stuff up, because obviously we would be> > sharing the money.>>This meme - "I respect your veganism, so you should respect my>omnivorism" - annoys me a lot. We think that indiscriminate meat-eating>is wrong. They think that veganism is, at worst, eccentric. In a>relationship, you should respect each other as people, but that doesn't>mean that you respect every single choice the other makes, or vice>versa.>>He also seems to have forgotten that (i) he

can eat vegan foods, (ii) if>he eats a healthy omnivorous diet, three-quarters of it will be vegan>anyway.>>Of course, it sounds like you were having an argument, and people do say>things in arguments that aren't always that well thought out.>> > pushing him into it...which i never do, but because i started saying> > how i don't understand how he thinks it is fine to kill and torture> > animals just to satisfy your tastebuds he says that i shouldn't say it> > that way. out of sight, out of mind seems to be his motto.>>That's fairly common for omnivores who haven't seriously thought about>it.>>I'd be tempted to ask how he'd like you say that he pays people to kill>and mistreat animals just to satisfy his tastebuds.>> > also just a little thing before i go...if you reply to this, please> > don't say anything bad about my boyfriend, i

guess i did present his> > case to be bad, but still i don't want to read anything bashing or> > anything like that on him. just incase anybody had an urge to, he is> > his own person. the thing is though...i could see him becoming a> > vegan evenutally...i'm not sure if that is a bad thing to assume.> > once he lets himself actually see what is going on, he tries to hide> > it and deny because i think he knows he will cut it all out of his> > life once he lets all the truth in.> >>>My last girlfriend ate meat (but not around me). We're still good>friends,>and the last thing I want to do is hold her up for some meatie-bashing,>so>I know where you're speaking from. I don't think she was ready to deal>with>the issues, and being fairly self-aware, once said that she wasn't read>to>deal with the impact of her self-esteem of me telling her

the harm her>food choices did to animals. (I hope she wouldn't mind me saying this>publicly without naming her.)>>So really good, kind, giving, loving people can be omnivores. But that>doesn't mean you're going to be compatible .>>Good luck,>>Ian>>*Home, of course, being something other than a farm.>>heart,>jen.

[Guest guest]

Catherine Harris wrote:

>

> hi all

>

> ican only speak for myself, but last year i ended a long relationship with a

> meat eater....at first he was accepting of my vegetarianism, as it was at

> first....but when we moved in together, he put extreme pressure on me to

> cook meat........it became a source of his being stubborn and completely

> refusing to eat in the house at all because i cooked veggie food, and he

> started to only eat take aways, which led to real financial issues......he

> wouldnt cook himself.......

>

 

This utterly astonishes me, not so much from an animal welfare

perspective as a " What a crappy boyfriend " perspective. Let me count the

ways. Expecting you to cook for him. Expecting you to subordinate your

ethics to him. Being unable to handle his own money.

 

It's important to make the distinction because there are a lot of

omnivores who can manage a perfectly fine relationship. My last

girlfriend, for instance, barely ever even had cow milk in her tea when

I was around - which I've got to admit is beyond the call of

relationship duty.

[Guest guest]

of course there must be meat eaters who are reasonable....my best friend is

a veggie and her partner was ok with that until they had kids, now she cooks

meat for the kids because he wants it that way.......

 

so i think a persons overall attitude to personal choice will be an

indicator as to whether they are tolerating ones being a vegan, or trully

support it...

 

and when you have kids, its important to have worked that all out beforehand

so difficulties dont happen around choice..

 

personally, i prefer a meat free kitchen and wont have it in the house

again.....thats my choice..

 

catherine

 

 

>Ian McDonald <ian

>

>

>Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

>Sun, 23 May 2004 02:51:09 +0100

>

>

>

>Catherine Harris wrote:

> >

> > hi all

> >

> > ican only speak for myself, but last year i ended a long relationship

>with a

> > meat eater....at first he was accepting of my vegetarianism, as it was

>at

> > first....but when we moved in together, he put extreme pressure on me to

> > cook meat........it became a source of his being stubborn and completely

> > refusing to eat in the house at all because i cooked veggie food, and he

> > started to only eat take aways, which led to real financial

>issues......he

> > wouldnt cook himself.......

> >

>

>This utterly astonishes me, not so much from an animal welfare

>perspective as a " What a crappy boyfriend " perspective. Let me count the

>ways. Expecting you to cook for him. Expecting you to subordinate your

>ethics to him. Being unable to handle his own money.

>

>It's important to make the distinction because there are a lot of

>omnivores who can manage a perfectly fine relationship. My last

>girlfriend, for instance, barely ever even had cow milk in her tea when

>I was around - which I've got to admit is beyond the call of

>relationship duty.

[Guest guest]

Catherine Harris wrote:

>

> of course there must be meat eaters who are reasonable....my best friend is

> a veggie and her partner was ok with that until they had kids, now she cooks

> meat for the kids because he wants it that way.......

 

Ugh. That's a pretty unpleasant attitude to personal choice on the part

of the father. But it's not the first time I've heard of a vegan wife

cooking meat for her husband.

 

It amazes me when folk get a vegan to cook meat.

 

> so i think a persons overall attitude to personal choice will be an

> indicator as to whether they are tolerating ones being a vegan, or trully

> support it...

 

I think a strong respect for personal choice leads to tolerating being a

vegan, not supporting it. In general, Sam's boyfriend had the same

attitude to choice as Sam: if Sam wouldn't fetch his food, he wouldn't

fetch Sam's. (Perhaps he just plain forgot that 75% of his food should,

if he's eating well, be vegan anyway.)

 

My point is that we expect our omnivorous partners to make a concession

if we expect them to support our diet but not us to support theirs. Now

I do think is okay, as long as we're ready to make concessions in other

bits of the relationship to make up.

 

> personally, i prefer a meat free kitchen and wont have it in the house

> again.....thats my choice..

>

 

I think I'm the same, but we can't pretend this is a tolerant attitude

to the choice of a meat-eating partner.

 

> and when you have kids, its important to have worked that all out beforehand

> so difficulties dont happen around choice..

>

 

Absolutely.

 

> catherine

>

[Guest guest]

> i brought my son up veggie(before i became vegan) and he respects my

choice,

> and cooks veggie on occasion for his family......he is nearly 6ft tall and

> not having animal products did him good!!>

 

I'm 4' 6 " are you saying veganism has done me good??

( joke)

[Guest guest]

 

-

Samantha Demers

Sunday, May 23, 2004 2:17 AM

Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

 

well i know that my boyfriend loves to cook, and would never force me to cook non-vegan food for him, or even touch it for that matter. he is understanding, but just doesn't want to do it himself. >

 

Just like to say I think it is you who is being understanding and tolerant of him as your vegan live style is the right one.

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Simon

 

> I'm 4' 6 " are you saying veganism has done me good??

> ( joke)

 

You might only be 3' if you'd been a meat eater :-)

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

confrontation and speaking condescendingly will get ya nowhere tho....at least in this respect...preachin at a BBQ is just gonna make sure you never get invited to another BBQ

its all a learnin experience..

and, its not like veganism is some sort of unified force..marchin in tandem...

we all are vegan/veggie fer different reasons, and it takes different forms...

and none of us be saints....we all do things that someone else can fault...

tis life..and trying to better yerself is a journey that never ends....

yes veganism is a path to bettering the world, but, most of the world isn't vegan..

oh, there are cultures where veganism and veggieness is much closer to the norm..but..those cultures are being submerged and over ridden by the vast consumerism and me me me atittude of America...its the curse of McWorld..

i would assume its better to lead by example..and to urge those who seem willing to come along, to answer questions, to educate, both ourselves and others...

gawd..i sound like a flippin hippie...

nevermind

burn burn burn!!!

to the streets lads!!!

*grabs torch and runs to nearest McDeathburger...*

fraggle

 

Vegans should n't feel they have to compromise and be put on the their back

foot....not for something as important as veganism.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/23/2004 4:15:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, metalscarab writes:

Hi Simon> I'm 4' 6" are you saying veganism has done me good??> ( joke)You might only be 3' if you'd been a meat eater :-)BBPeter

I`m 4'10" tall... I guess I didn`t go vegan soon enough

 

heart,jen.

[Guest guest]

-

" Peter " <metalscarab

 

Sunday, May 23, 2004 11:56 AM

Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

 

 

> Hi Simon

>

> > I'm 4' 6 " are you saying veganism hasn't done me good?

> > ( joke)

>

> You might only be 3' if you'd been a meat eater :-)>

 

>>Thats true...amonge other things.

 

>>Simon

>

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > of course there must be meat eaters who are reasonable....my best friend

is

> > a veggie and her partner was ok with that until they had kids, now she

cooks

> > meat for the kids because he wants it that way.......>

 

Vegans should n't feel they have to compromise and be put on the their back

foot....not for something as important as veganism. Either Animal-eaters

wake up!! and smell the coffee!! ( using an america expression there) are

shut up and take their shame elsewhere away from the civilized.

Sorry to outburst here but arn't we talking about probably the most

important thing on earth these days to forward ourselves. Enough wise people

have been saying it over hundreds even thousands of years...most vegans know

for ourselfs the importants of veganism.

 

Meat eaters need to be put on the back foot as they are in the shameful

wrong are thet not?

 

Simon

[Guest guest]

simonpjones wrote:

>

> Meat eaters need to be put on the back foot as they are in the shameful

> wrong are thet not?

>

 

Have you ever actually *been* in a mixed vegan/meatie relationship?

[Guest guest]

-

" Ian McDonald " <ian

 

Sunday, May 23, 2004 4:46 PM

Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

 

 

>

>

> simonpjones wrote:

> >

> > Meat eaters need to be put on the back foot as they are in the shameful

> > wrong are they not?

> >

>

> Have you ever actually *been* in a mixed vegan/meatie relationship?

 

Only a vegan/vegetarian....... only if I thought the meatie would turn

vegan... I couldn't see the nature bring me together with a harden

meat-eater other wise.

 

 

 

 

>

>

>

> To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

 

-

xjenisveganx

Sunday, May 23, 2004 6:24 PM

Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

 

 

 

In a message dated 5/23/2004 4:15:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time, metalscarab writes:

Hi Simon> I'm 4' 6" are you saying veganism has done me good??> ( joke)You might only be 3' if you'd been a meat eater :-)BBPeter

I`m 4'10" tall... I guess I didn`t go vegan soon enough

 

heart,jen.

 

I read in a medical journal that shorter people live longer on average than taller people.

 

SimonTo send an email to -

[Guest guest]

hi samantha

 

he didnt make comments about my vegan diet but when i moved in that was

another matter.....i was part time, and it fell to me to cook.....there was

no way i could have guessed from his behaviour before we co habited..

 

another issue about the vegan/meat eater relationship issue is if as a vegan

a person is ever going to be the stay-at-home parent, upon whom cooking

duties fall, a person needs to consider whether they will be prepared to

cook meat when chores are divided up that way.......

 

put it another way, as a stay-at-home parent, could you hold your ground

with a working-outside-the-home partner about cooking meat, after they have

had a 10 hour day working outside the home?

 

it bears thinking or planning for...

 

catherine

 

 

>Samantha Demers <SamADemers

>

>

>Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

>Sat, 22 May 2004 18:17:32 -0700 (PDT)

>

>well i know that my boyfriend loves to cook, and would never force me to

>cook non-vegan food for him, or even touch it for that matter. he is

>understanding, but just doesn't want to do it himself.

>

>how long were you two together? did it just all of a sudden come out to

>work like that? or could you tell a little bit that it would have been

>like that when you two moved in together.

>

>-samantha

>

>Catherine Harris <cait2 wrote:

>hi all

>

>ican only speak for myself, but last year i ended a long relationship with

>a

>meat eater....at first he was accepting of my vegetarianism, as it was at

>first....but when we moved in together, he put extreme pressure on me to

>cook meat........it became a source of his being stubborn and completely

>refusing to eat in the house at all because i cooked veggie food, and he

>started to only eat take aways, which led to real financial issues......he

>wouldnt cook himself.......

>

>i would personally not share a house with a meat eater who wanted to buy

>meat/cook meat in the house again......opening my fridge now is such sweet

>relief because its just vegan stuff completely....

>

>i brought my son up veggie(before i became vegan) and he respects my

>choice,

>and cooks veggie on occasion for his family......he is nearly 6ft tall and

>not having animal products did him good!!

>

>good luck with it!!

>

>catherine

>

>

> >xjenisveganx

> >

> >

> >Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

> >Sat, 22 May 2004 08:28:52 EDT

> >

> >I agree completly with everything you said. I think it is important that

>if

> >you have children that you either find some way to make it balanced for

>the

> >child to know that dad eats death (sorry... meat) and mum eats plant

> >sourced

> >food. I have been extremely curious that if i were to raise my kids

>veggie

> >or

> >vegan (not that i would be having kids any time soon anyway) but if they

> >were to

> >go to friends houses if their parents would feed my (hypothetical) kids

> >animal

> >products. How would i react to that? How could i prevent it? Its a tricky

> >dilemma. Would I not let my kids go to sleep overs? Its all very

> >hypothetical but

> >I guess i worry about what would happen in the future surrounding this

>sort

> >of

> >thing.

> >

> >Anyway, i think you (samantha) have a lot of thinking to do on the issue.

> >It

> >seems apparent that being vegan is incredibly important to you (as it is

> >for

> >probably all of us) becuase it isnt just a food choice and what you

>choose

> >to

> >eat every day, but rather it is a life choice. If you think about it-

>most

> >everything we do revolves around our being vegan. What food we buy, where

> >we go

> >out to eat, what clothes we buy, cars we purchase, shampoo, etc (you all

> >get the

> >picture) So i think that ian is right, he cant expect you to be accepting

> >of

> >his omnivorism when he clearly (and you can tell me if i am wrong here)

> >doesnt

> >understand the depths to which your life revolves around this incredibly

> >noble and important choice in life.

> >

> >I hope we all helped in some way.

> >

> >Jen

> >

> >(ps... ian- i call my mother " mummuy " i was suprised to see someone else

> >use

> >that term haha)

> >

> >

> >

> >In a message dated 5/22/2004 3:53:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

> >ian writes:

> >Hi Sam,

> >

> >I think that this is the killer issue for mixed vegan/meat-eater

> >relationships. You can love and respect each other until the cows come

> >home*, but when you raise children together you need some kind of

> >consensus on what code of ethics you bring them up with.

> >

> >Samantha Demers wrote:

> > >

> > > In the car tonight I brought up something to my boyfriend that has

> > > been in my mind for awhile. I definitely want to raise my

> > > children...when i do have them...vegan. I said to him...the meat

> > > eater...hypathetically speaking, if we were to get married and have

> > > kids, how would you feel about me raising them vegan? i said and then

> > > when they are older, obviously they can make their own decisions.

> >

> >I'm not sure how well this is going to work. Daddy is paying for the

> >suffering and death of our fellow creatures. Mummy says we should love

> >our fellow creatures. However you gloss over it in conversations in

> >front of the children, they'll twig there's a massive incompatibility.

> >On the other hand, there are probably people on the list who *have*

> >raised children in mixed vegan/meatie marriages and can tell me it *has*

> >worked, and I guess they should be telling us how they did it ...

> >

> > > they are older. i think to raise them pure and with no animals in

> > > them, then that is the best way to do it, you can't take back what

> > > they once put inside of them.

> >

> >This is about the purity of the person, not about the welfare of

> >animals. I think that if your children grow up to be vegan, they should

> >understand that Daddy ate meat and not blame you for him feeding them

> >dead animals.

> >

> > > cook it himself. he said fine, if that's the way, then it would be

> > > the same and i wouldn't buy any vegan foods. not meaning buy as in

> > > money, but just pick the stuff up, because obviously we would be

> > > sharing the money.

> >

> >This meme - " I respect your veganism, so you should respect my

> >omnivorism " - annoys me a lot. We think that indiscriminate meat-eating

> >is wrong. They think that veganism is, at worst, eccentric. In a

> >relationship, you should respect each other as people, but that doesn't

> >mean that you respect every single choice the other makes, or vice

> >versa.

> >

> >He also seems to have forgotten that (i) he can eat vegan foods, (ii) if

> >he eats a healthy omnivorous diet, three-quarters of it will be vegan

> >anyway.

> >

> >Of course, it sounds like you were having an argument, and people do say

> >things in arguments that aren't always that well thought out.

> >

> > > pushing him into it...which i never do, but because i started saying

> > > how i don't understand how he thinks it is fine to kill and torture

> > > animals just to satisfy your tastebuds he says that i shouldn't say it

> > > that way. out of sight, out of mind seems to be his motto.

> >

> >That's fairly common for omnivores who haven't seriously thought about

> >it.

> >

> >I'd be tempted to ask how he'd like you say that he pays people to kill

> >and mistreat animals just to satisfy his tastebuds.

> >

> > > also just a little thing before i go...if you reply to this, please

> > > don't say anything bad about my boyfriend, i guess i did present his

> > > case to be bad, but still i don't want to read anything bashing or

> > > anything like that on him. just incase anybody had an urge to, he is

> > > his own person. the thing is though...i could see him becoming a

> > > vegan evenutally...i'm not sure if that is a bad thing to assume.

> > > once he lets himself actually see what is going on, he tries to hide

> > > it and deny because i think he knows he will cut it all out of his

> > > life once he lets all the truth in.

> > >

> >

> >My last girlfriend ate meat (but not around me). We're still good

> >friends,

> >and the last thing I want to do is hold her up for some meatie-bashing,

> >so

> >I know where you're speaking from. I don't think she was ready to deal

> >with

> >the issues, and being fairly self-aware, once said that she wasn't read

> >to

> >deal with the impact of her self-esteem of me telling her the harm her

> >food choices did to animals. (I hope she wouldn't mind me saying this

> >publicly without naming her.)

> >

> >So really good, kind, giving, loving people can be omnivores. But that

> >doesn't mean you're going to be compatible .

> >

> >Good luck,

> >

> >Ian

> >

> >*Home, of course, being something other than a farm.

> >

> >heart,

> >jen.

>

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>

[Guest guest]

HI Fraggle

 

Maybe you do - but what you say is true. You cannot force people to be vegan.

 

Jo

 

 

....gawd..i sound like a flippin hippie...nevermindburn burn burn!!!to the streets lads!!!*grabs torch and runs to nearest McDeathburger...*:)fraggle

 

[Guest guest]

eating meat stunts your growth?

Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year

[Guest guest]

Who knows of all the terrors meat-eating has caused since the year dot.

 

-

Samantha Demers

Monday, May 24, 2004 4:28 PM

Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

 

eating meat stunts your growth?

 

 

Domains - Claim yours for only $14.70/year To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

Hi Cath,

Hope you are well, your ex come across as a bit of a doughnut from the picture you portrayed, but I am surprised that you can have no tolerance for a meat eating partner to share your fridge/living space with his choice of food, yet you say he did not accept your veganism?! Is this the pot calling the kettle black........no offence meant Welsh Princess.

The Valley Vegan......Catherine Harris <cait2 wrote:

of course there must be meat eaters who are reasonable....my best friend is a veggie and her partner was ok with that until they had kids, now she cooks meat for the kids because he wants it that way.......so i think a persons overall attitude to personal choice will be an indicator as to whether they are tolerating ones being a vegan, or trully support it...and when you have kids, its important to have worked that all out beforehand so difficulties dont happen around choice..personally, i prefer a meat free kitchen and wont have it in the house again.....thats my choice..catherine>Ian McDonald > > >Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner>Sun, 23 May 2004 02:51:09

+0100>>>>Catherine Harris wrote:> >> > hi all> >> > ican only speak for myself, but last year i ended a long relationship >with a> > meat eater....at first he was accepting of my vegetarianism, as it was >at> > first....but when we moved in together, he put extreme pressure on me to> > cook meat........it became a source of his being stubborn and completely> > refusing to eat in the house at all because i cooked veggie food, and he> > started to only eat take aways, which led to real financial >issues......he> > wouldnt cook himself.......> >>>This utterly astonishes me, not so much from an animal welfare>perspective as a "What a crappy boyfriend" perspective. Let me count the>ways. Expecting you to cook for him. Expecting you to subordinate your>ethics to him. Being unable to handle his own

money.>>It's important to make the distinction because there are a lot of>omnivores who can manage a perfectly fine relationship. My last>girlfriend, for instance, barely ever even had cow milk in her tea when>I was around - which I've got to admit is beyond the call of>relationship duty.

[Guest guest]

hi peter aka valley vegan

 

i take your point about sounding hypocritical about meat in the fridge

etc......i think my patience at not being tolerated has been pushed too far

and now i feel like i have swung to the all or nothing point of view!

 

i am aware it might look stupid!!

 

catherine

 

hangs head

 

pengam pagan

 

 

>peter hurd <swpgh01

>

>

>Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

>Sat, 29 May 2004 13:58:28 +0100 (BST)

>

>Hi Cath,

>Hope you are well, your ex come across as a bit of a doughnut from the

>picture you portrayed, but I am surprised that you can have no tolerance

>for a meat eating partner to share your fridge/living space with his choice

>of food, yet you say he did not accept your veganism?! Is this the pot

>calling the kettle black........no offence meant Welsh Princess.

>The Valley Vegan......

>

>Catherine Harris <cait2 wrote:

>of course there must be meat eaters who are reasonable....my best friend is

>a veggie and her partner was ok with that until they had kids, now she

>cooks

>meat for the kids because he wants it that way.......

>

>so i think a persons overall attitude to personal choice will be an

>indicator as to whether they are tolerating ones being a vegan, or trully

>support it...

>

>and when you have kids, its important to have worked that all out

>beforehand

>so difficulties dont happen around choice..

>

>personally, i prefer a meat free kitchen and wont have it in the house

>again.....thats my choice..

>

>catherine

>

>

> >Ian McDonald

> >

> >

> >Re: vegan children & a meat-eating partner

> >Sun, 23 May 2004 02:51:09 +0100

> >

> >

> >

> >Catherine Harris wrote:

> > >

> > > hi all

> > >

> > > ican only speak for myself, but last year i ended a long relationship

> >with a

> > > meat eater....at first he was accepting of my vegetarianism, as it was

> >at

> > > first....but when we moved in together, he put extreme pressure on me

>to

> > > cook meat........it became a source of his being stubborn and

>completely

> > > refusing to eat in the house at all because i cooked veggie food, and

>he

> > > started to only eat take aways, which led to real financial

> >issues......he

> > > wouldnt cook himself.......

> > >

> >

> >This utterly astonishes me, not so much from an animal welfare

> >perspective as a " What a crappy boyfriend " perspective. Let me count the

> >ways. Expecting you to cook for him. Expecting you to subordinate your

> >ethics to him. Being unable to handle his own money.

> >

> >It's important to make the distinction because there are a lot of

> >omnivores who can manage a perfectly fine relationship. My last

> >girlfriend, for instance, barely ever even had cow milk in her tea when

> >I was around - which I've got to admit is beyond the call of

> >relationship duty.

>

>

>

>

>

>To send an email to -

>