Guest guest Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 I couldn't find the post I wanted to reply to...but I recall a few on the list chastising BK because their burgers were "processed" Yves burgers and not really all that healthy. Are we being too picky here? I think eating meat is a moral issue...but is eating less than picked from the garden food also immoral? I don't think so. I am not going to make a fuss if there are now processed, but meatless, hotdog options at all the baseball stadiums across the US....I am not going to make a fuss...I am going to rejoice that people are being given an option, that less animals are being eaten...that progress is being made! It's a burger at a fast food place...it's not supposed to be perfect...but it certainly is a step in a more positive direction. Can't we give them at least that? Even if their motives are just business...I don't care...I care that less animals are being eaten. I rejoice that the world may be moving, at least slowly, towards a more plant based diet...even if it is on GOD FORBID white buns! Also, I agree with Nicholas...the burgers aren't terrible as so many of you make them out to be. I've tasted one out of curiousity...and they were very OK, tasty. Why are we so, so...elitist sometimes? Why do we have to look our nose down at everything that doesn't fit into our utopian vision of what the world should be like? The world is not perfect...can we not work within this imperfection? And give those who eat imperfectly, but try to eat less meat, the benefit and not be so judgemental? We ask to be accepted by the world around us, to not give us flak...yet many in this movement give ALOT of flak for just eating processed food. I must say, this is one aspect of the vegan movement that turns many off and I don't blame them at all. And I am speaking as someone who eats an organic, whole foods, no junk food kind of diet. I think we need to have a larger perspective here. Having been around the vegan community for many, many years...I have keenly been aware of the personal faults of many of it's members, including myself. The purity of ones diet is not the only virtue to have. Kristina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 14, 2004 Report Share Posted June 14, 2004 I don't think it's being judgemental towards people who eat at Burger King, etc. to say that I would never support the place with my own money. I mean, that's part of the idea of being vegan: to not support the slaughter/abuse/confinement of animals with my money. A personal choice. So, I see money spent at McDonalds or wherever as being the same thing as buying meat, _for me_. I would consider this free will, not elitism. Other people have the same choices I do and they can do whatever they want. In this society, one of the few things you can do that really matters is what giant corporation you give your money to. I am saying no to the fast food restaraunts by not giving them my money. Why should saying no on a personal level be considered elitism? I am not saying I'm better than others or looking down on people who support the veggie burgers wherever. OK, end of rant, I promise. Sara , lv2breathe@a... wrote: > I couldn't find the post I wanted to reply to...but I recall a few on the > list chastising BK because their burgers were " processed " Yves burgers and not > really all that healthy. > > Are we being too picky here? I think eating meat is a moral issue...but is > eating less than picked from the garden food also immoral? I don't think so. > I am not going to make a fuss if there are now processed, but meatless, hotdog > options at all the baseball stadiums across the US....I am not going to make > a fuss...I am going to rejoice that people are being given an option, that > less animals are being eaten...that progress is being made! It's a burger at a > fast food place...it's not supposed to be perfect...but it certainly is a step > in a more positive direction. Can't we give them at least that? Even if > their motives are just business...I don't care...I care that less animals are > being eaten. I rejoice that the world may be moving, at least slowly, towards a > more plant based diet...even if it is on GOD FORBID white buns! > > Also, I agree with Nicholas...the burgers aren't terrible as so many of you > make them out to be. I've tasted one out of curiousity...and they were very > OK, tasty. Why are we so, so...elitist sometimes? Why do we have to look our > nose down at everything that doesn't fit into our utopian vision of what the > world should be like? The world is not perfect...can we not work within this > imperfection? And give those who eat imperfectly, but try to eat less meat, the > benefit and not be so judgemental? We ask to be accepted by the world around > us, to not give us flak...yet many in this movement give ALOT of flak for > just eating processed food. I must say, this is one aspect of the vegan movement > that turns many off and I don't blame them at all. And I am speaking as > someone who eats an organic, whole foods, no junk food kind of diet. > > I think we need to have a larger perspective here. Having been around the > vegan community for many, many years...I have keenly been aware of the personal > faults of many of it's members, including myself. The purity of ones diet is > not the only virtue to have. > > Kristina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 > <snip>Are we being too picky here? I think eating >>meat is a moral issue...but is eating less than picked from the garden food also immoral? I've been wrestling with this one. And I can only speak for myself, of course, as you have spoken for yourself, but I find I agree with you. I suggest that many of us have several agendas - all commendable - our health as well as the animals, non-gmo foods, anti big business (esp. the big baddies Mickey D and Burgerthing.) the earth, world hunger, saving wetlands, saving endangered species, preserving small farms, etc etc The list is endless (sadly) and of course all these things do overlap. Where does this aim for perfection stop? Never? True, but if we expect it in ourselves (and that's debatable) should we also *demand* it in everyone else? ><snip> It's a burger at a fast food place...it's not >supposed to be perfect...but it certainly is a step >in a more positive direction. <snip> Yes. It is. And if we don't want to eat there (and I prefer not to, thank you ;=)) then we don't need to. But we *could* now - because now they are making veggie burgers. Whatever the non-nutrition of them, whatever the taste. > <snip>Even if their motives are just business...I >>>don't care...I care that less animals are >being eaten. I rejoice that the world may be moving, >at least slowly, towards a more plant basediet...even >if it is on GOD FORBID white buns! <snip> The motives here that should count, surely, are our own. If we object to a certain manufacturer/provider/government on political or personal grounds, then individually we have the opportunity and right to boycott or challenge it. And if we are morally outraged by them, then we might indeed convey our reasons to others in order to sway them to our own way of thinking. But this becomes politics more than personal ethics or philosophy. A useful tactic in these cases is to persuade someone for *another* reason to go against the Big Entity (your choice, see above) - eg health, anti-big business, etc. ( " So you eat meat? Ah well, but at least you understand that this is unhealthy food, even the vegetarian burgers that you also eat sometimes? Good. Don't buy them. " ) The person supporting us, in the case of BK, might not even give a damn for the animals, but may care for his health or hate the manager of that particular franchise and therefore will not buy a veggie burger there. Big Question: Do we accept this non-veggie person's support despite his/her questionable motives? Damned right we do *lol* But we won't accept the provision of a veggie burger from a fastfood chain because they are into big business and also cook me*t???? More caffein, Pat, more caffein. Best to you all on a lovely Tuesday morning ;=) Pat in Montreal ===== psybermus Lists: townhounds/ / htto://vegetarianslimming/ Homepage: http://www.angelfire.com/art/pendragon/ ---- Read only the mail you want - Mail SpamGuard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 fer the most part..the burgers are vegan..one of em isnn't, but i ferget which one... of course, none of the other stuff is vegan, you can't have the bun, you have to have it microwaved...etc and so forth eh..wotever.... Good point. I am very doubtful that 16-year-olds being paid minimum wage are gonna worry too much about using the same flipper to turn over your veggie burger that they just used on all the other burgers. Probably, you can ask to have it warmed in the microwave. I am not sure if the burgers themselves are vegan. Anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 In a message dated 6/15/2004 10:27:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, gagrip5 writes: Good point. I am very doubtful that 16-year-olds being paid minimum wage are gonna worry too much about using the same flipper to turn over your veggie burger that they just used on all the other burgers. Probably, you can ask to have it warmed in the microwave. I am not sure if the burgers themselves are vegan. Anyone?Sara peta sent out an e mail saying that they are vegan if they are cooked in the microwave. also they said that burger king sent memos out to all resturants telling them that if someone wants theirs in the microwave that it can be done. heart,jen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 Global Company issues aside, don`t they still handle the bits of animals at the same time as the vegie burgers using the same equipment, and don`t they use the same oil for frying,and besides that are the contents realy vegan,...........................and don`t get me started on the chips.........ooops sorry fries. Now if the same company opened a seperate chain of restuarants selling only vegan food, then we would only have the big buisiness ethics to worry about! Anyway the sun is shining, the birds are hiding in the shade, and everything is well in my world.......must be time for medication soon?! The Valley Vegan....Sara <gagrip5 wrote: I don't think it's being judgemental towards people who eat at Burger King, etc. to say that I would never support the place with my own money. I mean, that's part of the idea of being vegan: to not support the slaughter/abuse/confinement of animals with my money. A personal choice. So, I see money spent at McDonalds or wherever as being the same thing as buying meat, _for me_. I would consider this free will, not elitism. Other people have the same choices I do and they can do whatever they want. In this society, one of the few things you can do that really matters is what giant corporation you give your money to. I am saying no to the fast food restaraunts by not giving them my money. Why should saying no on a personal level be considered elitism? I am not saying I'm better than others or looking down on people who support the veggie burgers wherever.OK, end of rant, I promise.Sara , lv2breathe@a... wrote:> I couldn't find the post I wanted to reply to...but I recall a few on the > list chastising BK because their burgers were "processed" Yves burgers and not > really all that healthy.> > Are we being too picky here? I think eating meat is a moral issue...but is > eating less than picked from the garden food also immoral? I don't think so. > I am not going to make a fuss if there are now processed, but meatless, hotdog > options at all the baseball stadiums across the US....I am not going to make > a fuss...I am going to rejoice that people are being given an option, that > less animals are being eaten...that progress is being made! It's a burger at a > fast food place...it's not supposed to be perfect...but it certainly is a step > in a more positive direction. Can't we give them at least that? Even if > their motives are just business...I don't care...I care that less animals are > being eaten. I rejoice that the world may be moving, at least slowly, towards a > more plant based diet...even if it is on GOD FORBID white buns!> > Also, I agree with Nicholas...the burgers aren't terrible as so many of you > make them out to be. I've tasted one out of curiousity...and they were very > OK, tasty. Why are we so, so...elitist sometimes? Why do we have to look our > nose down at everything that doesn't fit into our utopian vision of what the > world should be like? The world is not perfect...can we not work within this > imperfection? And give those who eat imperfectly, but try to eat less meat, the > benefit and not be so judgemental? We ask to be accepted by the world around > us, to not give us flak...yet many in this movement give ALOT of flak for > just eating processed food. I must say, this is one aspect of the vegan movement > that turns many off and I don't blame them at all. And I am speaking as > someone who eats an organic, whole foods, no junk food kind of diet.> > I think we need to have a larger perspective here. Having been around the > vegan community for many, many years...I have keenly been aware of the personal > faults of many of it's members, including myself. The purity of ones diet is > not the only virtue to have.> > Kristina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 15, 2004 Report Share Posted June 15, 2004 Good point. I am very doubtful that 16-year-olds being paid minimum wage are gonna worry too much about using the same flipper to turn over your veggie burger that they just used on all the other burgers. Probably, you can ask to have it warmed in the microwave. I am not sure if the burgers themselves are vegan. Anyone? Sara , peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote: > Global Company issues aside, don`t they still handle the bits of animals at the same time as the vegie burgers using the same equipment, and don`t they use the same oil for frying,and besides that are the contents realy vegan,...........................and don`t get me started on the chips.........ooops sorry fries. > Now if the same company opened a seperate chain of restuarants selling only vegan food, then we would only have the big buisiness ethics to worry about! > Anyway the sun is shining, the birds are hiding in the shade, and everything is well in my world.......must be time for medication soon?! > The Valley Vegan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 The veggie burger patty part of them is vegan, but the bun has trace amounts of dairy in it. And I was also told (by BK big wigs who ate at the restaurnt I used to work in) that they would cook them on the same grill with the meat unless you requested to have them cooked in the microwave. Heidi , " Sara " <gagrip5> wrote: > Good point. I am very doubtful that 16-year-olds being paid minimum > wage are gonna worry too much about using the same flipper to turn > over your veggie burger that they just used on all the other burgers. > Probably, you can ask to have it warmed in the microwave. I am not > sure if the burgers themselves are vegan. Anyone? > > Sara > > , peter hurd <swpgh01@t...> wrote: > > Global Company issues aside, don`t they still handle the bits of > animals at the same time as the vegie burgers using the same > equipment, and don`t they use the same oil for frying,and besides > that are the contents realy vegan,...........................and > don`t get me started on the chips.........ooops sorry fries. > > Now if the same company opened a seperate chain of restuarants > selling only vegan food, then we would only have the big buisiness > ethics to worry about! > > Anyway the sun is shining, the birds are hiding in the shade, and > everything is well in my world.......must be time for medication > soon?! > > The Valley Vegan.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 19, 2004 Report Share Posted June 19, 2004 *sigh* ok..its early....and i'm cranky..so, please forgive me.. long nite..and lotsa issues in my wee life... but please.. if you want to eat at BK, it makes ya happy..go fer it.. but... listen to how ya'll describe things *hey, the patty is vegan! so, if you have em microwave em fer ya, and don't eat the bun, and don't have the mayonaise, and you do the hokey pokey...* is this progress??? this the great leap forward fer vegans?? screw this pandering green washin crap.... sorry but every murder king, mcdeathburger, etc should either be burnt to its foundations er used to house abused kittens.... again, this is just my opinion.... no offense to anyone else.... The veggie burger patty part of them is vegan, but the bun has trace amounts of dairy in it. And I was also told (by BK big wigs who ate at the restaurnt I used to work in) that they would cook them on the same grill with the meat unless you requested to have them cooked in the microwave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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