Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 You know, I admire your idealism...but if Trader Joe's is still selling animal parts (chicken and pork) I am not going to worry about some wax made by bugs. If it was even possible...and without a ton of support I do not think it is...I would get rid of the meat first before even thinking about worrying about the wax. And even then I'd probably put my energy towards animal testing or vivisection before that. Personally I'd focus on more winnable and more public supported battles...like the circus or veal or the egregious treatment of chickens purchased by KFC. Not saying you don't have merit, you do...but I don't think it's realistic. Kristina In a message dated 7/19/04 3:53:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, writes: In a message dated 7/18/2004 2:35:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, grouppastime writes:My family shops at trader joes about once a week. I never shop there due to the lack of fresh produce, lack of raw and organic foods, and expensive prices. There are only a few things im willing to eat. If you havent heard of trader joes, its a simi-health food store that specializes in selling imported products. Everything is packaged which increases the environmental impact and decreases the freshness. Out of all the items that are brought home, i only eat OG avocados and OG raw almond butter. My family also buys the 4 lbs bags of OG valencia oranges but i simply can not eat them. The reason being is that they are not vegan. Unfortunately, beeswax and lac-resin is used as a coating to preserve the oranges. This is disappointing because i see those oranges in my kitchen tantalizing me almost every day.I must take action.I called a local TJs and they gave my a customer service number. I inquired about the details of the resins that are used. The lac-resin is obtained from a worm or some other type of insect. I dont want to even imagine how this is done. After the representative finished i expressed my position. I will not buy TJs oranges or any other produce item that contains animal products. (resin is also used on the lemons but theyre not organic so i pay little mind) If the use resin is discontinued, then i would be willing to purchase the oranges. The representative assured me my message would get across to the distributors. That was about a month ago and i continue to see the resin-coated-oranges. One complaint is not enough to have a significant effect. Sense this is a vegan group, im hoping most of you are vegan. Please call the TJs customer service number and let them know you refuse to buy their oranges because youre vegan. The more complaints they get, the more likely theyll realize profit is being lost due to their barbarous use of animal products in originally vegan foods. Their number is 626-599-3817. This number is for the west coast. They might have a different customer service number for the east coast. Hopefully you have unlimited long distance. I used a phone card. Just to let you know, they have stores in Arizona, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Washington. Please call when you get the chance. Your endeavor is greatly appreciated.trader joes has really good sesame crepes that are vegan.heart,jen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 19, 2004 Report Share Posted July 19, 2004 I tend to agree. In the grand scheme of things, this is not really something on which I'll choose to focus a lot of time and energy right now... When the state of the world has become such that this insecty wax stuff is a serious income producer for a serious # of producers, then it's more worth, without which, they'd close up shop... That becomes a different story. Till then, well, as far as I'm concerned the insects are on their own... I don't mean to sound disrespectful of your concerns, everyone has to pick and choose the places where they feel most strongly, and feel they are the most able to make a difference. I choose to focus on my own spending/consumption habits, and on doing dog rescue... Which, while it may not make such a dent in the grand scheme of things, certainly makes a big difference in the lives of those dogs who would otherwise be dead. Gaije On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 2:33pm, lv2breathe wrote: > You know, I admire your idealism...but if Trader Joe's is still selling > animal parts (chicken and pork) I am not going to worry about some wax > made by > bugs. If it was even possible...and without a ton of support I do not > think it > is...I would get rid of the meat first before even thinking about > worrying about > the wax. And even then I'd probably put my energy towards animal > testing or > vivisection before that. > > Personally I'd focus on more winnable and more public supported > battles...like the circus or veal or the egregious treatment of > chickens purchased by KFC. > Not saying you don't have merit, you do...but I don't think it's > realistic. > > Kristina > > In a message dated 7/19/04 3:53:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > writes: > In a message dated 7/18/2004 2:35:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > grouppastime writes: > > My family shops at trader joes about once a week. I never shop there > due to the lack of fresh produce, lack of raw and organic foods, and > expensive prices. There are only a few things im willing to eat. If > you havent heard of trader joes, its a simi-health food store that > specializes in selling imported products. Everything is packaged > which increases the environmental impact and decreases the freshness. > Out of all the items that are brought home, i only eat OG avocados > and OG raw almond butter. My family also buys the 4 lbs bags of OG > valencia oranges but i simply can not eat them. The reason being is > that they are not vegan. Unfortunately, beeswax and lac-resin is used > as a coating to preserve the oranges. This is disappointing because i > see those oranges in my kitchen tantalizing me almost every day. > > I must take action. > > I called a local TJs and they gave my a customer service number. I > inquired about the details of the resins that are used. The lac-resin > is obtained from a worm or some other type of insect. I dont want to > even imagine how this is done. After the representative finished i > expressed my position. I will not buy TJs oranges or any other > produce item that contains animal products. (resin is also used on > the lemons but theyre not organic so i pay little mind) If the use > resin is discontinued, then i would be willing to purchase the > oranges. The representative assured me my message would get across to > the distributors. > > That was about a month ago and i continue to see the resin-coated- > oranges. One complaint is not enough to have a significant effect. > Sense this is a vegan group, im hoping most of you are vegan. Please > call the TJs customer service number and let them know you refuse to > buy their oranges because youre vegan. The more complaints they get, > the more likely theyll realize profit is being lost due to their > barbarous use of animal products in originally vegan foods. Their > number is 626-599-3817. This number is for the west coast. They might > have a different customer service number for the east coast. > Hopefully you have unlimited long distance. I used a phone card. Just > to let you know, they have stores in Arizona, California, > Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, > Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, > Virginia and Washington. Please call when you get the chance. Your > endeavor is greatly appreciated. > > > trader joes has really good sesame crepes that are vegan. > > heart, > jen. --gaije Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 I tend to disagree. Admittedly bugs aren't pretty fluffy little animals, but their lives must surely be worth as much as any other. Why would a dog's life be worth more? Jo - " Gaije Kushner " <gaije Monday, July 19, 2004 8:30 PM Re: Digest Number 1317 > I tend to agree. In the grand scheme of things, this is not really > something on which I'll choose to focus a lot of time and energy right > now... When the state of the world has become such that this insecty wax > stuff is a serious income producer for a serious # of producers, then > it's more worth, without which, they'd close up shop... That becomes a > different story. Till then, well, as far as I'm concerned the insects > are on their own... I don't mean to sound disrespectful of your > concerns, everyone has to pick and choose the places where they feel > most strongly, and feel they are the most able to make a difference. I > choose to focus on my own spending/consumption habits, and on doing dog > rescue... Which, while it may not make such a dent in the grand scheme > of things, certainly makes a big difference in the lives of those dogs > who would otherwise be dead. > > Gaije > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 2:33pm, lv2breathe wrote: > > You know, I admire your idealism...but if Trader Joe's is still selling > > animal parts (chicken and pork) I am not going to worry about some wax > > made by > > bugs. If it was even possible...and without a ton of support I do not > > think it > > is...I would get rid of the meat first before even thinking about > > worrying about > > the wax. And even then I'd probably put my energy towards animal > > testing or > > vivisection before that. > > > > Personally I'd focus on more winnable and more public supported > > battles...like the circus or veal or the egregious treatment of > > chickens purchased by KFC. > > Not saying you don't have merit, you do...but I don't think it's > > realistic. > > > > Kristina > > > > In a message dated 7/19/04 3:53:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > writes: > > In a message dated 7/18/2004 2:35:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > grouppastime writes: > > > > My family shops at trader joes about once a week. I never shop there > > due to the lack of fresh produce, lack of raw and organic foods, and > > expensive prices. There are only a few things im willing to eat. If > > you havent heard of trader joes, its a simi-health food store that > > specializes in selling imported products. Everything is packaged > > which increases the environmental impact and decreases the freshness. > > Out of all the items that are brought home, i only eat OG avocados > > and OG raw almond butter. My family also buys the 4 lbs bags of OG > > valencia oranges but i simply can not eat them. The reason being is > > that they are not vegan. Unfortunately, beeswax and lac-resin is used > > as a coating to preserve the oranges. This is disappointing because i > > see those oranges in my kitchen tantalizing me almost every day. > > > > I must take action. > > > > I called a local TJs and they gave my a customer service number. I > > inquired about the details of the resins that are used. The lac-resin > > is obtained from a worm or some other type of insect. I dont want to > > even imagine how this is done. After the representative finished i > > expressed my position. I will not buy TJs oranges or any other > > produce item that contains animal products. (resin is also used on > > the lemons but theyre not organic so i pay little mind) If the use > > resin is discontinued, then i would be willing to purchase the > > oranges. The representative assured me my message would get across to > > the distributors. > > > > That was about a month ago and i continue to see the resin-coated- > > oranges. One complaint is not enough to have a significant effect. > > Sense this is a vegan group, im hoping most of you are vegan. Please > > call the TJs customer service number and let them know you refuse to > > buy their oranges because youre vegan. The more complaints they get, > > the more likely theyll realize profit is being lost due to their > > barbarous use of animal products in originally vegan foods. Their > > number is 626-599-3817. This number is for the west coast. They might > > have a different customer service number for the east coast. > > Hopefully you have unlimited long distance. I used a phone card. Just > > to let you know, they have stores in Arizona, California, > > Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, > > Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, > > Virginia and Washington. Please call when you get the chance. Your > > endeavor is greatly appreciated. > > > > > > trader joes has really good sesame crepes that are vegan. > > > > heart, > > jen. > --gaije > > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 It's not about the dog's life being worth more. It's about choosing your battles. If everyone tries to solve every problem, nothing will ultimately be accomplished. So, you choose those battles where you feel most able to make a contribution, and do as much as you can with them.... And, I'm going to make a guess that the percentage of the bug population that's killed to make this waxy stuff, is far smaller than that of the domestic dog population killed because of human selfishness and ignorance... Or the percentage of the cow, poultry, pig, or fish populations killed for basically the same reasons. Again, I mean no disrespect to those who feel more strongly than I do about the insecty-wax... If that's where you feel your potential for making the biggest contribution is, then great, have at it. All I'm saying is that we all have only a certain amount of time and energy, and the animals we aspire to help, are best served by a focused use of that energy. Gaije On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 8:32pm, Jo wrote: > I tend to disagree. Admittedly bugs aren't pretty fluffy little > animals, but their lives must surely be worth as much as any other. Why would a dog's life be worth more? Jo - " Gaije Kushner " <gaije Monday, July 19, 2004 8:30 PM Re: Digest Number 1317 > I tend to agree. In the grand scheme of things, this is not really > something on which I'll choose to focus a lot of time and energy right > now... When the state of the world has become such that this insecty > wax > stuff is a serious income producer for a serious # of producers, then > it's more worth, without which, they'd close up shop... That becomes a > different story. Till then, well, as far as I'm concerned the insects > are on their own... I don't mean to sound disrespectful of your > concerns, everyone has to pick and choose the places where they feel > most strongly, and feel they are the most able to make a difference. > I > choose to focus on my own spending/consumption habits, and on doing > dog > rescue... Which, while it may not make such a dent in the grand > scheme > of things, certainly makes a big difference in the lives of those dogs > who would otherwise be dead. > > Gaije > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 2:33pm, lv2breathe wrote: > > You know, I admire your idealism...but if Trader Joe's is still > selling > > animal parts (chicken and pork) I am not going to worry about some > wax > > made by > > bugs. If it was even possible...and without a ton of support I do > not > > think it > > is...I would get rid of the meat first before even thinking about > > worrying about > > the wax. And even then I'd probably put my energy towards animal > > testing or > > vivisection before that. > > > > Personally I'd focus on more winnable and more public supported > > battles...like the circus or veal or the egregious treatment of > > chickens purchased by KFC. > > Not saying you don't have merit, you do...but I don't think it's > > realistic. > > > > Kristina > > > > In a message dated 7/19/04 3:53:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > writes: > > In a message dated 7/18/2004 2:35:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > grouppastime writes: > > > > My family shops at trader joes about once a week. I never shop > there > > due to the lack of fresh produce, lack of raw and organic foods, > and > > expensive prices. There are only a few things im willing to eat. If > > you havent heard of trader joes, its a simi-health food store that > > specializes in selling imported products. Everything is packaged > > which increases the environmental impact and decreases the > freshness. > > Out of all the items that are brought home, i only eat OG avocados > > and OG raw almond butter. My family also buys the 4 lbs bags of OG > > valencia oranges but i simply can not eat them. The reason being is > > that they are not vegan. Unfortunately, beeswax and lac-resin is > used > > as a coating to preserve the oranges. This is disappointing because > i > > see those oranges in my kitchen tantalizing me almost every day. > > > > I must take action. > > > > I called a local TJs and they gave my a customer service number. I > > inquired about the details of the resins that are used. The > lac-resin > > is obtained from a worm or some other type of insect. I dont want > to > > even imagine how this is done. After the representative finished i > > expressed my position. I will not buy TJs oranges or any other > > produce item that contains animal products. (resin is also used on > > the lemons but theyre not organic so i pay little mind) If the use > > resin is discontinued, then i would be willing to purchase the > > oranges. The representative assured me my message would get across > to > > the distributors. > > > > That was about a month ago and i continue to see the resin-coated- > > oranges. One complaint is not enough to have a significant effect. > > Sense this is a vegan group, im hoping most of you are vegan. > Please > > call the TJs customer service number and let them know you refuse > to > > buy their oranges because youre vegan. The more complaints they > get, > > the more likely theyll realize profit is being lost due to their > > barbarous use of animal products in originally vegan foods. Their > > number is 626-599-3817. This number is for the west coast. They > might > > have a different customer service number for the east coast. > > Hopefully you have unlimited long distance. I used a phone card. > Just > > to let you know, they have stores in Arizona, California, > > Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, > > Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, > > Virginia and Washington. Please call when you get the chance. Your > > endeavor is greatly appreciated. > > > > > > trader joes has really good sesame crepes that are vegan. > > > > heart, > > jen. > --gaije > > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi Gaije > It's not about the dog's life being worth more. It's about choosing > your battles. If everyone tries to solve every problem, nothing will > ultimately be accomplished. So, you choose those battles where you feel > most able to make a contribution, and do as much as you can with > them.... And, I'm going to make a guess that the percentage of the bug > population that's killed to make this waxy stuff, is far smaller than > that of the domestic dog population killed because of human selfishness > and ignorance... So, presumably, given a choice between saving 5 million Chinese people, and 50,000 British, you'd save the British as it's a higher percentage of the respective populations? BB Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Hi Gaije I don't know the figures for the percentages of the insect population killed and the dog population killed - do you? and does it mattter - a life is a life! Jo - " Gaije Kushner " <gaije Tuesday, July 20, 2004 2:26 AM Re: Digest Number 1317 It's not about the dog's life being worth more. It's about choosing your battles. If everyone tries to solve every problem, nothing will ultimately be accomplished. So, you choose those battles where you feel most able to make a contribution, and do as much as you can with them.... And, I'm going to make a guess that the percentage of the bug population that's killed to make this waxy stuff, is far smaller than that of the domestic dog population killed because of human selfishness and ignorance... Or the percentage of the cow, poultry, pig, or fish populations killed for basically the same reasons. Again, I mean no disrespect to those who feel more strongly than I do about the insecty-wax... If that's where you feel your potential for making the biggest contribution is, then great, have at it. All I'm saying is that we all have only a certain amount of time and energy, and the animals we aspire to help, are best served by a focused use of that energy. Gaije On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 8:32pm, Jo wrote: > I tend to disagree. Admittedly bugs aren't pretty fluffy little > animals, but their lives must surely be worth as much as any other. Why would a dog's life be worth more? Jo - " Gaije Kushner " <gaije Monday, July 19, 2004 8:30 PM Re: Digest Number 1317 > I tend to agree. In the grand scheme of things, this is not really > something on which I'll choose to focus a lot of time and energy right > now... When the state of the world has become such that this insecty > wax > stuff is a serious income producer for a serious # of producers, then > it's more worth, without which, they'd close up shop... That becomes a > different story. Till then, well, as far as I'm concerned the insects > are on their own... I don't mean to sound disrespectful of your > concerns, everyone has to pick and choose the places where they feel > most strongly, and feel they are the most able to make a difference. > I > choose to focus on my own spending/consumption habits, and on doing > dog > rescue... Which, while it may not make such a dent in the grand > scheme > of things, certainly makes a big difference in the lives of those dogs > who would otherwise be dead. > > Gaije > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 2:33pm, lv2breathe wrote: > > You know, I admire your idealism...but if Trader Joe's is still > selling > > animal parts (chicken and pork) I am not going to worry about some > wax > > made by > > bugs. If it was even possible...and without a ton of support I do > not > > think it > > is...I would get rid of the meat first before even thinking about > > worrying about > > the wax. And even then I'd probably put my energy towards animal > > testing or > > vivisection before that. > > > > Personally I'd focus on more winnable and more public supported > > battles...like the circus or veal or the egregious treatment of > > chickens purchased by KFC. > > Not saying you don't have merit, you do...but I don't think it's > > realistic. > > > > Kristina > > > > In a message dated 7/19/04 3:53:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > writes: > > In a message dated 7/18/2004 2:35:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > grouppastime writes: > > > > My family shops at trader joes about once a week. I never shop > there > > due to the lack of fresh produce, lack of raw and organic foods, > and > > expensive prices. There are only a few things im willing to eat. If > > you havent heard of trader joes, its a simi-health food store that > > specializes in selling imported products. Everything is packaged > > which increases the environmental impact and decreases the > freshness. > > Out of all the items that are brought home, i only eat OG avocados > > and OG raw almond butter. My family also buys the 4 lbs bags of OG > > valencia oranges but i simply can not eat them. The reason being is > > that they are not vegan. Unfortunately, beeswax and lac-resin is > used > > as a coating to preserve the oranges. This is disappointing because > i > > see those oranges in my kitchen tantalizing me almost every day. > > > > I must take action. > > > > I called a local TJs and they gave my a customer service number. I > > inquired about the details of the resins that are used. The > lac-resin > > is obtained from a worm or some other type of insect. I dont want > to > > even imagine how this is done. After the representative finished i > > expressed my position. I will not buy TJs oranges or any other > > produce item that contains animal products. (resin is also used on > > the lemons but theyre not organic so i pay little mind) If the use > > resin is discontinued, then i would be willing to purchase the > > oranges. The representative assured me my message would get across > to > > the distributors. > > > > That was about a month ago and i continue to see the resin-coated- > > oranges. One complaint is not enough to have a significant effect. > > Sense this is a vegan group, im hoping most of you are vegan. > Please > > call the TJs customer service number and let them know you refuse > to > > buy their oranges because youre vegan. The more complaints they > get, > > the more likely theyll realize profit is being lost due to their > > barbarous use of animal products in originally vegan foods. Their > > number is 626-599-3817. This number is for the west coast. They > might > > have a different customer service number for the east coast. > > Hopefully you have unlimited long distance. I used a phone card. > Just > > to let you know, they have stores in Arizona, California, > > Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, > > Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, > > Virginia and Washington. Please call when you get the chance. Your > > endeavor is greatly appreciated. > > > > > > trader joes has really good sesame crepes that are vegan. > > > > heart, > > jen. > --gaije > > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 That's not the only reason I gave, and kind of a ridiculous analogy. I'd go with whichever situation I was actually most likely to be able to help with. Chances are, if I tried to save both batches, they'd all die, which is pretty much my point here... Again, no one can do everything, so you do what you can, where you can, and do your best with that. Why is my lack of interest in focusing my time and energy on bugs such a problem for some of you? If you're happy with, satisfied by, and commited to whatever kind of activism, rescue, etc.. you are choosing to do (or not to do), why is it such an issue that I happen to choose differently? But, just for the record, I do kind of think any time or energy spent on getting T.J.'s to stop using the insect wax stuff is likely to be wasted. The likelihood of getting enough calls made to them, letters written, etc, for it to be worth their time and trouble to change is minimal at best. As is the likelihood of organizing a boycott in sufficient numbers that it's worth it for them to either find a different supplier, or get their current supplier to change. And as this is such a specific issue, I don't see it having much in the way of crossover to benefit other animals, reduce other kinds of animal abuses. I would see the time better spent on educating people about the abyssmal state of industrial farming in this country and elsewhere, the rights to which all sentient beings are entitled by virtue of existing as feeling, thinking, creatures, and the realities of what they're doing to their bodies by consuming animal products. This kind of general eduational effort has far more potential to do more good, for more animals, than any kind of call in campaign against Trader Joe's. Start small. Forward easily comprehensible, indisputable online stuff about animal cruelty, and disgusting meat to people you know... Pass on the information you are privileged to have. Teach by example, by continuing happily and healthily in your chosen vegan lifestyle. And if others are trying to help/ make changes in a different way than you are, leave them to it! Gaije On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 1:44pm, Peter wrote: > Hi Gaije > It's not about the dog's life being worth more. It's about choosing > your battles. If everyone tries to solve every problem, nothing will > ultimately be accomplished. So, you choose those battles where you > feel > most able to make a contribution, and do as much as you can with > them.... And, I'm going to make a guess that the percentage of the bug > population that's killed to make this waxy stuff, is far smaller than > that of the domestic dog population killed because of human > selfishness > and ignorance... So, presumably, given a choice between saving 5 million Chinese people, and 50,000 British, you'd save the British as it's a higher percentage of the respective populations? BB Peter To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Given that we don't mass produce insects for our own purposes, then set up a system in which irresponsible ownership can directly lead to death, I feel a greater responsibility on the part of humans toward domestic dogs. We created their current state of existence, and we've pretty much screwed them. Yet again I'll say yes, of course, a life is a life, but no one person can save them all, and by tring to do so, will end up saving none. And again I'll ask, why is my particular prioritization so troubling to you? If you want to save the bugs, go save the bugs! And good luck to you! Why one earth are you so bothered about what I do or do not choose to do with my own particular time and energy? Gaije On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 3:59pm, Jo wrote: > Hi Gaije I don't know the figures for the percentages of the insect population killed and the dog population killed - do you? and does it mattter - a life is a life! Jo - " Gaije Kushner " <gaije Tuesday, July 20, 2004 2:26 AM Re: Digest Number 1317 It's not about the dog's life being worth more. It's about choosing your battles. If everyone tries to solve every problem, nothing will ultimately be accomplished. So, you choose those battles where you feel most able to make a contribution, and do as much as you can with them.... And, I'm going to make a guess that the percentage of the bug population that's killed to make this waxy stuff, is far smaller than that of the domestic dog population killed because of human selfishness and ignorance... Or the percentage of the cow, poultry, pig, or fish populations killed for basically the same reasons. Again, I mean no disrespect to those who feel more strongly than I do about the insecty-wax... If that's where you feel your potential for making the biggest contribution is, then great, have at it. All I'm saying is that we all have only a certain amount of time and energy, and the animals we aspire to help, are best served by a focused use of that energy. Gaije On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 8:32pm, Jo wrote: > I tend to disagree. Admittedly bugs aren't pretty fluffy little > animals, but their lives must surely be worth as much as any other. Why would a dog's life be worth more? Jo - " Gaije Kushner " <gaije Monday, July 19, 2004 8:30 PM Re: Digest Number 1317 > I tend to agree. In the grand scheme of things, this is not really > something on which I'll choose to focus a lot of time and energy > right > now... When the state of the world has become such that this insecty > wax > stuff is a serious income producer for a serious # of producers, then > it's more worth, without which, they'd close up shop... That becomes > a > different story. Till then, well, as far as I'm concerned the insects > are on their own... I don't mean to sound disrespectful of your > concerns, everyone has to pick and choose the places where they feel > most strongly, and feel they are the most able to make a difference. > I > choose to focus on my own spending/consumption habits, and on doing > dog > rescue... Which, while it may not make such a dent in the grand > scheme > of things, certainly makes a big difference in the lives of those > dogs > who would otherwise be dead. > > Gaije > On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 2:33pm, lv2breathe wrote: > > You know, I admire your idealism...but if Trader Joe's is still > selling > > animal parts (chicken and pork) I am not going to worry about some > wax > > made by > > bugs. If it was even possible...and without a ton of support I do > not > > think it > > is...I would get rid of the meat first before even thinking about > > worrying about > > the wax. And even then I'd probably put my energy towards animal > > testing or > > vivisection before that. > > > > Personally I'd focus on more winnable and more public supported > > battles...like the circus or veal or the egregious treatment of > > chickens purchased by KFC. > > Not saying you don't have merit, you do...but I don't think it's > > realistic. > > > > Kristina > > > > In a message dated 7/19/04 3:53:13 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > writes: > > In a message dated 7/18/2004 2:35:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > > grouppastime writes: > > > > My family shops at trader joes about once a week. I never shop > there > > due to the lack of fresh produce, lack of raw and organic foods, > and > > expensive prices. There are only a few things im willing to eat. If > > you havent heard of trader joes, its a simi-health food store that > > specializes in selling imported products. Everything is packaged > > which increases the environmental impact and decreases the > freshness. > > Out of all the items that are brought home, i only eat OG avocados > > and OG raw almond butter. My family also buys the 4 lbs bags of OG > > valencia oranges but i simply can not eat them. The reason being is > > that they are not vegan. Unfortunately, beeswax and lac-resin is > used > > as a coating to preserve the oranges. This is disappointing because > i > > see those oranges in my kitchen tantalizing me almost every day. > > > > I must take action. > > > > I called a local TJs and they gave my a customer service number. I > > inquired about the details of the resins that are used. The > lac-resin > > is obtained from a worm or some other type of insect. I dont want > to > > even imagine how this is done. After the representative finished i > > expressed my position. I will not buy TJs oranges or any other > > produce item that contains animal products. (resin is also used on > > the lemons but theyre not organic so i pay little mind) If the use > > resin is discontinued, then i would be willing to purchase the > > oranges. The representative assured me my message would get across > to > > the distributors. > > > > That was about a month ago and i continue to see the resin-coated- > > oranges. One complaint is not enough to have a significant effect. > > Sense this is a vegan group, im hoping most of you are vegan. > Please > > call the TJs customer service number and let them know you refuse > to > > buy their oranges because youre vegan. The more complaints they > get, > > the more likely theyll realize profit is being lost due to their > > barbarous use of animal products in originally vegan foods. Their > > number is 626-599-3817. This number is for the west coast. They > might > > have a different customer service number for the east coast. > > Hopefully you have unlimited long distance. I used a phone card. > Just > > to let you know, they have stores in Arizona, California, > > Connecticut, Delaware, Illinois, Indiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, > > Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, > > Virginia and Washington. Please call when you get the chance. Your > > endeavor is greatly appreciated. > > > > > > trader joes has really good sesame crepes that are vegan. > > > > heart, > > jen. > --gaije > > > > > To send an email to > - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 I'm not worried about what you do with your own time - in fact it sounds as if your time is well spent. You just started guessing percentages, which I think you may underestimate. Jo And, I'm going to make a guess that the percentage of the bug population that's killed to make this waxy stuff, is far smaller than that of the domestic dog population killed because of human selfishness and ignorance... Or the percentage of the cow, poultry, pig, or fish populations killed for basically the same reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 20, 2004 Report Share Posted July 20, 2004 Thanks for clarifying! Gaije On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 6:09pm, Jo wrote: > I'm not worried about what you do with your own time - in fact it > sounds as if your time is well spent. You just started guessing percentages, which I think you may underestimate. Jo And, I'm going to make a guess that the percentage of the bug population that's killed to make this waxy stuff, is far smaller than that of the domestic dog population killed because of human selfishness and ignorance... Or the percentage of the cow, poultry, pig, or fish populations killed for basically the same reasons. To send an email to - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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