Guest guest Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world of veganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eat seafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I do this or when I eat eggs or anything like that because I think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption. I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetarian city-- never mind vegans! I joined this group because I have so many questions and I want to learn what to do I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition, etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don't get any from family or friends. Thanks for reading my post and hope to talk with all of you soon. Chrissie New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Welcome Chrissie I can understand your frustration with living in an anti-veg city.. We're moving to Bowling Green, KY (which has LOTS of farms, rodeos and students get the day off school for hunting purposes) *sigh* xo Tara , Christelle <stellarlunar77> wrote: > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world of > veganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eat > seafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I do > this or when I eat eggs or anything like that because > I think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption. > I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetarian > city-- never mind vegans! I joined this group because > I have so many questions and I want to learn what to > do I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition, > etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don't > get any from family or friends. Thanks for reading my > post and hope to talk with all of you soon. > Chrissie > > > > > > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Hi Chrissie Welcome to the group. If any questions are asked an answer usually pops up from somewhere, so ask away. Jo - " Christelle " <stellarlunar77 Monday, July 26, 2004 6:18 PM New to group! > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world of > veganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eat > seafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I do > this or when I eat eggs or anything like that because > I think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption. > I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetarian > city-- never mind vegans! I joined this group because > I have so many questions and I want to learn what to > do I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition, > etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don't > get any from family or friends. Thanks for reading my > post and hope to talk with all of you soon. > Chrissie > > > > > > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > > > > To send an email to - > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Hi: Thanks to those who welcomed me and congrats to the person who got their dog back! I'm such a dog lover myself- I have a 12 yr old mini-dachshund who I got from a rescue league 4 yrs ago and treat like a king. Yesterday I was feeding him vegan cheese =) One of my questions is this: how do you know how far to go with veganism? I'm lactose intolerant, which has been a blessing in disguise, so I've been ordering pizza without cheese for awhile, but I wonder about the dough- isn't dough made with eggs and sometimes even milk? I don't want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I got a muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have eggs if not milk for ingredients. As a vegan, do you just have to make a conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal products like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have eggs or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that say they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even this considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy and my friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane! Thanks, Chrissie , " Jo " <Heartwork@o...> wrote: > Hi Chrissie > > Welcome to the group. If any questions are asked an answer usually pops up > from somewhere, so ask away. > > Jo > > - > " Christelle " <stellarlunar77> > > Monday, July 26, 2004 6:18 PM > New to group! > > > > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world of > > veganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eat > > seafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I do > > this or when I eat eggs or anything like that because > > I think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption. > > I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetarian > > city-- never mind vegans! I joined this group because > > I have so many questions and I want to learn what to > > do I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition, > > etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don't > > get any from family or friends. Thanks for reading my > > post and hope to talk with all of you soon. > > Chrissie > > > > > > > > > > > > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 28, 2004 Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 Hi Chrissie You avoid everything until you know that it doesn't contain animal parts or derivatives - even down to using rubber gloves and condoms. Jo > Hi: Thanks to those who welcomed me and congrats to the person who > got their dog back! I'm such a dog lover myself- I have a 12 yr old > mini-dachshund who I got from a rescue league 4 yrs ago and treat > like a king. Yesterday I was feeding him vegan cheese =) One of my > questions is this: how do you know how far to go with veganism? I'm > lactose intolerant, which has been a blessing in disguise, so I've > been ordering pizza without cheese for awhile, but I wonder about the > dough- isn't dough made with eggs and sometimes even milk? I don't > want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I got a > muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have eggs > if not milk for ingredients. As a vegan, do you just have to make a > conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal products > like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have eggs > or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that say > they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even this > considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy and my > friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane! > Thanks, > Chrissie > > , " Jo " <Heartwork@o...> wrote: > > Hi Chrissie > > > > Welcome to the group. If any questions are asked an answer usually > pops up > > from somewhere, so ask away. > > > > Jo > > > > - > > " Christelle " <stellarlunar77> > > > > Monday, July 26, 2004 6:18 PM > > New to group! > > > > > > > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world of > > > veganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eat > > > seafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I do > > > this or when I eat eggs or anything like that because > > > I think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption. > > > I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetarian > > > city-- never mind vegans! I joined this group because > > > I have so many questions and I want to learn what to > > > do I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition, > > > etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don't > > > get any from family or friends. Thanks for reading my > > > post and hope to talk with all of you soon. > > > Chrissie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Jo wrote: > > Hi Chrissie > > You avoid everything until you know that it doesn't contain animal parts or > derivatives - even down to using rubber gloves and condoms. > > Jo What about computers? Are you sure the computer you wrote that message on doesn't contain any animal derivatives? I have heard that they do - in plastics and in hard disks - but I'd have to look it up to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 silvertree173 wrote: > I don't > want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I got a > muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have eggs > if not milk for ingredients. I'm probably a moderate on this compared to the rest of the list, but this is my experience. I think it's okay to call yourself vegan and not sweat over obscure additives present in trace quantities. (I make a real effort to avoid them, but can't claim to know them all.) Quite a few 'vegans' I know have occasional dessert-related lapses. (I don't, BTW.) I'll try to make my non-food purchases vegan, but I don't treat it as lapses in my veganism when they aren't; if pressed for a tighter definition, I'm a dietary vegan. But if reasonably suspect it might have egg in it - like a muffin - then you can't really eat it and call yourself a vegan. And eggs are no more *vegan* than steaks. Even if the chickens didn't live in cages, their brothers would have been killed just after hatching, and the chickens themselves likely lived short (a matter of weeks instead of natural years), stressed, overworked lives. Most vegetarians avoid factory eggs anyway. The UK Vegetarian society refuses to certify as vegetarian foods which are free from animal flesh but contain factory farmed eggs. Of course, being vegan isn't the definition of morality, and you can do a lot to reduce the impact your purchases have on animals without being 100% vegan. > As a vegan, do you just have to make a > conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal products > like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have eggs > or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that say > they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even this > considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy and my > friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane! > Thanks, > Chrissie > > , " Jo " <Heartwork@o...> wrote: > > Hi Chrissie > > > > Welcome to the group. If any questions are asked an answer usually > pops up > > from somewhere, so ask away. > > > > Jo > > > > - > > " Christelle " <stellarlunar77> > > > > Monday, July 26, 2004 6:18 PM > > New to group! > > > > > > > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world of > > > veganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eat > > > seafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I do > > > this or when I eat eggs or anything like that because > > > I think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption. > > > I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetarian > > > city-- never mind vegans! I joined this group because > > > I have so many questions and I want to learn what to > > > do I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition, > > > etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don't > > > get any from family or friends. Thanks for reading my > > > post and hope to talk with all of you soon. > > > Chrissie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Gosh, it all seems so complicated! How did animal products get into almost everything we eat, wear, touch, use? Someone wrote about computers-- They use animal derivatives in computers??? I think I'm going to continue with my vegetarianism and make as many vegan choices as I can without making myself more neurotic than I am already. Someday soon I am going to have to tackle my closet, which is probably a vegan's nightmare and I've been avoiding it because I'm scared of what I'll find... leather coats, purses, shoes... and a suede skirt I've had since high school is probably hiding back there. Please don't hate me or ostracize me from the group- I just never thought about this stuff before because it seemed such a normal part of life and I didn't even know what a vegan was until about a year ago. Chrissie , Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote: > > > silvertree173 wrote: > > I don't > > want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I got a > > muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have eggs > > if not milk for ingredients. > > I'm probably a moderate on this compared to the rest of the list, but > this is my experience. I think it's okay to call yourself vegan and not > sweat over obscure additives present in trace quantities. (I make a real > effort to avoid them, but can't claim to know them all.) Quite a few > 'vegans' I know have occasional dessert-related lapses. (I don't, BTW.) > I'll try to make my non-food purchases vegan, but I don't treat it as > lapses in my veganism when they aren't; if pressed for a tighter > definition, I'm a dietary vegan. > > But if reasonably suspect it might have egg in it - like a muffin - then > you can't really eat it and call yourself a vegan. And eggs are no more > *vegan* than steaks. Even if the chickens didn't live in cages, their > brothers would have been killed just after hatching, and the chickens > themselves likely lived short (a matter of weeks instead of natural > years), stressed, overworked lives. > > Most vegetarians avoid factory eggs anyway. The UK Vegetarian society > refuses to certify as vegetarian foods which are free from animal flesh > but contain factory farmed eggs. > > Of course, being vegan isn't the definition of morality, and you can do > a lot to reduce the impact your purchases have on animals without being > 100% vegan. > > > As a vegan, do you just have to make a > > conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal products > > like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have eggs > > or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that say > > they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even this > > considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy and my > > friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane! > > Thanks, > > Chrissie > > > > , " Jo " <Heartwork@o...> wrote: > > > Hi Chrissie > > > > > > Welcome to the group. If any questions are asked an answer usually > > pops up > > > from somewhere, so ask away. > > > > > > Jo > > > > > > - > > > " Christelle " <stellarlunar77> > > > > > > Monday, July 26, 2004 6:18 PM > > > New to group! > > > > > > > > > > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world of > > > > veganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eat > > > > seafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I do > > > > this or when I eat eggs or anything like that because > > > > I think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption. > > > > I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetarian > > > > city-- never mind vegans! I joined this group because > > > > I have so many questions and I want to learn what to > > > > do I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition, > > > > etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don't > > > > get any from family or friends. Thanks for reading my > > > > post and hope to talk with all of you soon. > > > > Chrissie > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To send an email to - > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 They may well do. Jo > What about computers? Are you sure the computer you wrote that message > on doesn't contain any animal derivatives? I have heard that they do - > in plastics and in hard disks - but I'd have to look it up to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Chrissie; Welcome to the group! I mostly agree with Ian on this. IMO (I am not the official vegan police, mind you ), if we use all of our energy memorizing lists of non-vegan ingredients and beating ourselves up for every tiny infraction, we will not only go insane, but also lose sight of why we are doing this in the first place. We start viewing veganism as a stringent set of rules to be enforced instead of a constant series of choices we make based on empathy with animals or the earth or whatever motivates you. It would be nearly impossible in this day and age to live a totally vegan life when you get down to it. Computers, film, etc., etc. Which is not to say we shouldn't strive, of course. Just some thoughts. sara , Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote: > > silvertree173 wrote: > > I don't > > want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I got a > > muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have eggs > > if not milk for ingredients. > > I'm probably a moderate on this compared to the rest of the list, but > this is my experience. I think it's okay to call yourself vegan and not > sweat over obscure additives present in trace quantities. (I make a real > effort to avoid them, but can't claim to know them all.) Quite a few > 'vegans' I know have occasional dessert-related lapses. (I don't, BTW.) > I'll try to make my non-food purchases vegan, but I don't treat it as > lapses in my veganism when they aren't; if pressed for a tighter > definition, I'm a dietary vegan. > > But if reasonably suspect it might have egg in it - like a muffin - then > you can't really eat it and call yourself a vegan. And eggs are no more > *vegan* than steaks. Even if the chickens didn't live in cages, their > brothers would have been killed just after hatching, and the chickens > themselves likely lived short (a matter of weeks instead of natural > years), stressed, overworked lives. > > Most vegetarians avoid factory eggs anyway. The UK Vegetarian society > refuses to certify as vegetarian foods which are free from animal flesh > but contain factory farmed eggs. > > Of course, being vegan isn't the definition of morality, and you can do > a lot to reduce the impact your purchases have on animals without being > 100% vegan. > > > As a vegan, do you just have to make a > > conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal products > > like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have eggs > > or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that say > > they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even this > > considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy and my > > friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane! > > Thanks, > > Chrissie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Hiya Jo, yes I agree with you too. I understand that we get tricked now and again but once we know we should never use the product again. Vegan is pure living or as close to pure as you can get and I do push the point as often to people as I can on the lighter side I want to recommend a drink that should take care of the B12 worries everyone seems to have 1 cup soy milk 1 teaspoon fresh yeast 4-7 teaspoons green & Black organic hot chocolate a few drops of Vanilla extract a dribble of organic maple syrup mix, heat and drink yum yum yum the fresh yeast tastes like old socks smell but is easily masked in the drink a couple times a week should do the trick all the best Craig Hi IanI have to disagree. If you are to call yourself vegan I think you shouldmake every effort, at least with food and drink and toileteries etc. to makesure that they are totally animal free. The reason I say this is becausethe vast majority of vegans are ethical vegans, and it is very important toavoid animal ingredients. If someone doesn't want to be too bothered aboutit, maybe they should call themselves vegetarians.Jo> silvertree173 wrote:> > I don't> > want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I got a> > muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have eggs> > if not milk for ingredients.>> I'm probably a moderate on this compared to the rest of the list, but> this is my experience. I think it's okay to call yourself vegan and not> sweat over obscure additives present in trace quantities. (I make a real> effort to avoid them, but can't claim to know them all.) Quite a few> 'vegans' I know have occasional dessert-related lapses. (I don't, BTW.)> I'll try to make my non-food purchases vegan, but I don't treat it as> lapses in my veganism when they aren't; if pressed for a tighter> definition, I'm a dietary vegan.>> But if reasonably suspect it might have egg in it - like a muffin - then> you can't really eat it and call yourself a vegan. And eggs are no more> *vegan* than steaks. Even if the chickens didn't live in cages, their> brothers would have been killed just after hatching, and the chickens> themselves likely lived short (a matter of weeks instead of natural> years), stressed, overworked lives.>> Most vegetarians avoid factory eggs anyway. The UK Vegetarian society> refuses to certify as vegetarian foods which are free from animal flesh> but contain factory farmed eggs.>> Of course, being vegan isn't the definition of morality, and you can do> a lot to reduce the impact your purchases have on animals without being> 100% vegan.>> > As a vegan, do you just have to make a> > conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal products> > like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have eggs> > or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that say> > they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even this> > considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy and my> > friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane!> > Thanks,> > Chrissie> >> > , "Jo" <Heartwork@o...> wrote:> > > Hi Chrissie> > >> > > Welcome to the group. If any questions are asked an answer usually> > pops up> > > from somewhere, so ask away.> > >> > > Jo> > >> > > -> > > "Christelle" <stellarlunar77>> > > > > > Monday, July 26, 2004 6:18 PM> > > New to group!> > >> > >> > > > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world of> > > > veganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eat> > > > seafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I do> > > > this or when I eat eggs or anything like that because> > > > I think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption.> > > > I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetarian> > > > city-- never mind vegans! I joined this group because> > > > I have so many questions and I want to learn what to> > > > do I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition,> > > > etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don't> > > > get any from family or friends. Thanks for reading my> > > > post and hope to talk with all of you soon.> > > > Chrissie> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > To send an email to -> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Thanks for this explanation! As much as I've been contemplating going completely vegan, I couldn't see how it could be humanly possible. I'm just going to try my best to eat and buy products that are animal-free and not get too worked up about it. I'm at a disadvantage because there's no one in my social circle who shares my beliefs about this, so in the few days I've been on this group it has helped immensely. I've often wondered if there are any support groups in my area that would be safe to contact. Do you know any groups or organizations I could look into? Chrissie , " Sara " <gagrip5> wrote: > Chrissie; > Welcome to the group! I mostly agree with Ian on this. IMO (I am not > the official vegan police, mind you ), if we use all of our energy > memorizing lists of non-vegan ingredients and beating ourselves up > for every tiny infraction, we will not only go insane, but also lose > sight of why we are doing this in the first place. We start viewing > veganism as a stringent set of rules to be enforced instead of a > constant series of choices we make based on empathy with animals or > the earth or whatever motivates you. > It would be nearly impossible in this day and age to live a totally > vegan life when you get down to it. Computers, film, etc., etc. Which > is not to say we shouldn't strive, of course. > Just some thoughts. > sara > > , Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote: > > > > silvertree173 wrote: > > > I don't > > > want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I > got a > > > muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have > eggs > > > if not milk for ingredients. > > > > I'm probably a moderate on this compared to the rest of the list, > but > > this is my experience. I think it's okay to call yourself vegan and > not > > sweat over obscure additives present in trace quantities. (I make a > real > > effort to avoid them, but can't claim to know them all.) Quite a few > > 'vegans' I know have occasional dessert-related lapses. (I don't, > BTW.) > > I'll try to make my non-food purchases vegan, but I don't treat it > as > > lapses in my veganism when they aren't; if pressed for a tighter > > definition, I'm a dietary vegan. > > > > But if reasonably suspect it might have egg in it - like a muffin - > then > > you can't really eat it and call yourself a vegan. And eggs are no > more > > *vegan* than steaks. Even if the chickens didn't live in cages, > their > > brothers would have been killed just after hatching, and the > chickens > > themselves likely lived short (a matter of weeks instead of natural > > years), stressed, overworked lives. > > > > Most vegetarians avoid factory eggs anyway. The UK Vegetarian > society > > refuses to certify as vegetarian foods which are free from animal > flesh > > but contain factory farmed eggs. > > > > Of course, being vegan isn't the definition of morality, and you > can do > > a lot to reduce the impact your purchases have on animals without > being > > 100% vegan. > > > > > As a vegan, do you just have to make a > > > conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal products > > > like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have > eggs > > > or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that > say > > > they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even this > > > considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy > and my > > > friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane! > > > Thanks, > > > Chrissie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 Wow, Jo, that was cool...I didn't expect that answer! I was afraid I'd get chewed out for owning the stuff and I never thought about it like that- like I already have it so why waste it? Alot of it was gifts so in the future I'll just let it be known that I don't want any more leather, suede, silk, wool... (am I missing anything?) Chrissie , " Jo " <Heartwork@o...> wrote: > Hi Chrissie > > I think it is a good idea to use your leather and suede items until they > wear out. You already have them, it would be wasteful to throw them away. > Once they have worn out you can replace them with vegan equivalents. > > Jo > > > > Gosh, it all seems so complicated! How did animal products get into > > almost everything we eat, wear, touch, use? Someone wrote about > > computers-- They use animal derivatives in computers??? I think I'm > > going to continue with my vegetarianism and make as many vegan choices > > as I can without making myself more neurotic than I am already. > > Someday soon I am going to have to tackle my closet, which is probably > > a vegan's nightmare and I've been avoiding it because I'm scared of > > what I'll find... leather coats, purses, shoes... and a suede skirt > > I've had since high school is probably hiding back there. Please > > don't hate me or ostracize me from the group- I just never thought > > about this stuff before because it seemed such a normal part of life > > and I didn't even know what a vegan was until about a year ago. > > Chrissie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 HI Chrissie I still have some leather shoes which I will use until they wear out and a leather coat my husband gave me, and a leather handbag my daughter gave - all quite a few years back. Jo > Wow, Jo, that was cool...I didn't expect that answer! I was afraid > I'd get chewed out for owning the stuff and I never thought about it > like that- like I already have it so why waste it? Alot of it was > gifts so in the future I'll just let it be known that I don't want > any more leather, suede, silk, wool... (am I missing anything?) > Chrissie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 29, 2004 Report Share Posted July 29, 2004 silvertree173 wrote: > > Gosh, it all seems so complicated! How did animal products get into > almost everything we eat, wear, touch, use? Someone wrote about > computers-- They use animal derivatives in computers??? I think I'm > going to continue with my vegetarianism and make as many vegan choices > as I can without making myself more neurotic than I am already. That's generally how I started. To be a full member of the Vegan Society, you only need to be a dietary vegan. > Someday soon I am going to have to tackle my closet, which is probably > a vegan's nightmare and I've been avoiding it because I'm scared of > what I'll find... leather coats, purses, shoes... and a suede skirt > I've had since high school is probably hiding back there. I still have a leather belt, and didn't throw out my leather shoes. Replace them as they wear out, is what I say. Particularly wool. My new jumpers are cotton, but I still wear my old woolen jumpers when the need arises. Just not to London Vegans . > Please > don't hate me or ostracize me from the group- I just never thought > about this stuff before because it seemed such a normal part of life > and I didn't even know what a vegan was until about a year ago. > Chrissie That's not going to happen. Just because folk say you're not a vegan doesn't mean they're condemning you. Words are useless unless they mean something, so people don't want to word vegan to become diluted, but that's not a judgement about you. Once you get used to it, being a dietary vegan is pretty straightforward. Pleased don't get put off. > , Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote: > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Very true Ian I think the trouble is that originally 'vegetarian' meant not eating any animal products, by-products or dairy etc. and then dairy and eggs were included in that description - so the word 'vegan' was invented, and people are just worried that that word will be taken over to mean something other than it's original meaning. Unfortunately the word 'vegetarian' is often taken to mean people who eat fish now! Jo > That's not going to happen. Just because folk say you're not a vegan > doesn't mean they're condemning you. Words are useless unless they mean > something, so people don't want to word vegan to become diluted, but > that's not a judgement about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Chrissie, Be strong and believe in yourself. Know that you CAN be vegan. I share the same location/social problems as you, but I stay strong, and know that EVERYDAY I can help stop the suffering of our fellow animals. Also, I look at it in a health direction. Should you really be eating muffins from Dunkin Donuts? Instead, a bowl of fortified cereal, soya, fruit? (Although I can understand if your in a TOTAL out to eat crunch ie. travel or with nonvegan friends, etc..) We shouldn't get all worked up about choices that we can not know for sure if animal products are in them.. but we should get worked up if we are continuly purchasing animal based products that we are aware of. xoTara , " silvertree173 " <stellarlunar77> wrote: > Thanks for this explanation! As much as I've been contemplating > going completely vegan, I couldn't see how it could be humanly > possible. I'm just going to try my best to eat and buy products that > are animal-free and not get too worked up about it. I'm at a > disadvantage because there's no one in my social circle who shares my > beliefs about this, so in the few days I've been on this group it has > helped immensely. I've often wondered if there are any support > groups in my area that would be safe to contact. Do you know any > groups or organizations I could look into? > Chrissie > , " Sara " <gagrip5> wrote: > > Chrissie; > > Welcome to the group! I mostly agree with Ian on this. IMO (I am > not > > the official vegan police, mind you ), if we use all of our > energy > > memorizing lists of non-vegan ingredients and beating ourselves up > > for every tiny infraction, we will not only go insane, but also > lose > > sight of why we are doing this in the first place. We start viewing > > veganism as a stringent set of rules to be enforced instead of a > > constant series of choices we make based on empathy with animals or > > the earth or whatever motivates you. > > It would be nearly impossible in this day and age to live a totally > > vegan life when you get down to it. Computers, film, etc., etc. > Which > > is not to say we shouldn't strive, of course. > > Just some thoughts. > > sara > > > > , Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote: > > > > > > silvertree173 wrote: > > > > I don't > > > > want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I > > got a > > > > muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have > > eggs > > > > if not milk for ingredients. > > > > > > I'm probably a moderate on this compared to the rest of the list, > > but > > > this is my experience. I think it's okay to call yourself vegan > and > > not > > > sweat over obscure additives present in trace quantities. (I make > a > > real > > > effort to avoid them, but can't claim to know them all.) Quite a > few > > > 'vegans' I know have occasional dessert-related lapses. (I don't, > > BTW.) > > > I'll try to make my non-food purchases vegan, but I don't treat > it > > as > > > lapses in my veganism when they aren't; if pressed for a tighter > > > definition, I'm a dietary vegan. > > > > > > But if reasonably suspect it might have egg in it - like a > muffin - > > then > > > you can't really eat it and call yourself a vegan. And eggs are > no > > more > > > *vegan* than steaks. Even if the chickens didn't live in cages, > > their > > > brothers would have been killed just after hatching, and the > > chickens > > > themselves likely lived short (a matter of weeks instead of > natural > > > years), stressed, overworked lives. > > > > > > Most vegetarians avoid factory eggs anyway. The UK Vegetarian > > society > > > refuses to certify as vegetarian foods which are free from animal > > flesh > > > but contain factory farmed eggs. > > > > > > Of course, being vegan isn't the definition of morality, and you > > can do > > > a lot to reduce the impact your purchases have on animals without > > being > > > 100% vegan. > > > > > > > As a vegan, do you just have to make a > > > > conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal > products > > > > like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have > > eggs > > > > or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that > > say > > > > they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even > this > > > > considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy > > and my > > > > friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Chrissie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Also check this out... http://vegan.meetup.com/ xoTara , " silvertree173 " <stellarlunar77> wrote: > Thanks for this explanation! As much as I've been contemplating > going completely vegan, I couldn't see how it could be humanly > possible. I'm just going to try my best to eat and buy products that > are animal-free and not get too worked up about it. I'm at a > disadvantage because there's no one in my social circle who shares my > beliefs about this, so in the few days I've been on this group it has > helped immensely. I've often wondered if there are any support > groups in my area that would be safe to contact. Do you know any > groups or organizations I could look into? > Chrissie > , " Sara " <gagrip5> wrote: > > Chrissie; > > Welcome to the group! I mostly agree with Ian on this. IMO (I am > not > > the official vegan police, mind you ), if we use all of our > energy > > memorizing lists of non-vegan ingredients and beating ourselves up > > for every tiny infraction, we will not only go insane, but also > lose > > sight of why we are doing this in the first place. We start viewing > > veganism as a stringent set of rules to be enforced instead of a > > constant series of choices we make based on empathy with animals or > > the earth or whatever motivates you. > > It would be nearly impossible in this day and age to live a totally > > vegan life when you get down to it. Computers, film, etc., etc. > Which > > is not to say we shouldn't strive, of course. > > Just some thoughts. > > sara > > > > , Ian McDonald <ian@m...> wrote: > > > > > > silvertree173 wrote: > > > > I don't > > > > want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I > > got a > > > > muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have > > eggs > > > > if not milk for ingredients. > > > > > > I'm probably a moderate on this compared to the rest of the list, > > but > > > this is my experience. I think it's okay to call yourself vegan > and > > not > > > sweat over obscure additives present in trace quantities. (I make > a > > real > > > effort to avoid them, but can't claim to know them all.) Quite a > few > > > 'vegans' I know have occasional dessert-related lapses. (I don't, > > BTW.) > > > I'll try to make my non-food purchases vegan, but I don't treat > it > > as > > > lapses in my veganism when they aren't; if pressed for a tighter > > > definition, I'm a dietary vegan. > > > > > > But if reasonably suspect it might have egg in it - like a > muffin - > > then > > > you can't really eat it and call yourself a vegan. And eggs are > no > > more > > > *vegan* than steaks. Even if the chickens didn't live in cages, > > their > > > brothers would have been killed just after hatching, and the > > chickens > > > themselves likely lived short (a matter of weeks instead of > natural > > > years), stressed, overworked lives. > > > > > > Most vegetarians avoid factory eggs anyway. The UK Vegetarian > > society > > > refuses to certify as vegetarian foods which are free from animal > > flesh > > > but contain factory farmed eggs. > > > > > > Of course, being vegan isn't the definition of morality, and you > > can do > > > a lot to reduce the impact your purchases have on animals without > > being > > > 100% vegan. > > > > > > > As a vegan, do you just have to make a > > > > conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal > products > > > > like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have > > eggs > > > > or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that > > say > > > > they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even > this > > > > considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy > > and my > > > > friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Chrissie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 Well, if there is a vegetarian restaurant in your area, that could be a good place to start. Then you could approach people as individuals rather than as a group. Also, coop or health food store... sara , " silvertree173 " <stellarlunar77> wrote: > Thanks for this explanation! As much as I've been contemplating > going completely vegan, I couldn't see how it could be humanly > possible. I'm just going to try my best to eat and buy products that > are animal-free and not get too worked up about it. I'm at a > disadvantage because there's no one in my social circle who shares my > beliefs about this, so in the few days I've been on this group it has > helped immensely. I've often wondered if there are any support > groups in my area that would be safe to contact. Do you know any > groups or organizations I could look into? > Chrissie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 30, 2004 Report Share Posted July 30, 2004 This is very true. And very frustrating. I ask in Asian places about vegetarian food and they almost always point me to the seafood section of the menu. sara , " Jo " <Heartwork@o...> wrote: > Very true Ian > > I think the trouble is that originally 'vegetarian' meant not eating any > animal products, by-products or dairy etc. and then dairy and eggs were > included in that description - so the word 'vegan' was invented, and people > are just worried that that word will be taken over to mean something other > than it's original meaning. Unfortunately the word 'vegetarian' is often > taken to mean people who eat fish now! > > Jo > > > That's not going to happen. Just because folk say you're not a vegan > > doesn't mean they're condemning you. Words are useless unless they mean > > something, so people don't want to word vegan to become diluted, but > > that's not a judgement about you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Welcome Chrissie, Hope you find the answers you are looking for on this site. Anything we can do to encourage another potential vegan! All The Best, The Valley Vegan..... P.S. Watch out for Fraggle!Christelle <stellarlunar77 wrote: Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world ofveganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eatseafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I dothis or when I eat eggs or anything like that becauseI think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption.I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetariancity-- never mind vegans! I joined this group becauseI have so many questions and I want to learn what todo I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition,etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don'tget any from family or friends. Thanks for reading mypost and hope to talk with all of you soon.ChrissieNew and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Hi Jo, I`m with you on this one, I don`t think you need to persecute yourself or become a matyr to become a vegan. That is one of the carnivores arguements along with "well, what do you eat"!. All you need to do is give it some thaought and spend some time planning your new lifestyle. It soon becomes a lot easier than the carnies think. If you are holding on to stones in your hands, your hands will not be free to take the diamonds and gold. - Sri Sri Ravi Shankar The Valley Vegan......Jo <Heartwork wrote: Hi IanI have to disagree. If you are to call yourself vegan I think you shouldmake every effort, at least with food and drink and toileteries etc. to makesure that they are totally animal free. The reason I say this is becausethe vast majority of vegans are ethical vegans, and it is very important toavoid animal ingredients. If someone doesn't want to be too bothered aboutit, maybe they should call themselves vegetarians.Jo> silvertree173 wrote:> > I don't> > want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I got a> > muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have eggs> > if not milk for ingredients.>> I'm probably a moderate on this compared to the rest of the list, but> this is my experience. I think it's okay to call yourself vegan and not> sweat over obscure additives present in trace quantities. (I make a real> effort to avoid them, but can't claim to know them all.) Quite a few> 'vegans' I know have occasional dessert-related lapses. (I don't, BTW.)> I'll try to make my non-food purchases vegan, but I don't treat it as> lapses in my veganism when they aren't; if pressed for a tighter> definition, I'm a dietary vegan.>> But if reasonably suspect it might have egg in it - like a muffin - then> you can't really eat it and call yourself a vegan. And eggs are no more> *vegan* than steaks. Even if the chickens didn't live in cages, their> brothers would have been killed just after hatching, and the chickens> themselves likely lived short (a matter of weeks instead of natural> years), stressed, overworked lives.>> Most vegetarians avoid factory eggs anyway. The UK Vegetarian society> refuses to certify as vegetarian foods which are free from animal flesh> but contain factory farmed eggs.>> Of course, being vegan isn't the definition of morality, and you can do> a lot to reduce the impact your purchases have on animals without being> 100% vegan.>> > As a vegan, do you just have to make a> > conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal products> > like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have eggs> > or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that say> > they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even this> > considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy and my> > friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane!> > Thanks,> > Chrissie> >> > , "Jo" wrote:> > > Hi Chrissie> > >> > > Welcome to the group. If any questions are asked an answer usually> > pops up> > > from somewhere, so ask away.> > >> > > Jo> > >> > > -> > > "Christelle" > > > > > > Monday, July 26, 2004 6:18 PM> > > New to group!> > >> > >> > > > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world of> > > > veganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eat> > > > seafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I do> > > > this or when I eat eggs or anything like that because> > > > I think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption.> > > > I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetarian> > > > city-- never mind vegans! I joined this group because> > > > I have so many questions and I want to learn what to> > > > do I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition,> > > > etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don't> > > > get any from family or friends. Thanks for reading my> > > > post and hope to talk with all of you soon.> > > > Chrissie> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > To send an email to -> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 hi All, i'm Sheri, a vegan chef and baker.... and i'm also close to 8 years vegan and quite loving it. Wanted to give my .02 on this... IMO, being vegan means consuming no animal products, obvious or not. For new vegans, working towards avoiding the obvious is a great place to start... i.e., avoid eggs, all dairy, all meat/fish/chicken, etc. Next step would be starting to think about the well known 'sneaky' ingredients a bit... i.e. casein, rennet, whey, lecithin for starters. Once you're pretty well grounded in ferreting this stuff out and are comfortable being vegan in these ways, then begin thinking about all the 'really sneaky' hidden ingredients out there... wayyyyy too many to list here, unfortunately.... a great list can be found in any of Tanya/Sarah's vegan cookbooks, 'the garden of vegan' and 'how it all vegan'... and I'm sure this list can also be found online in many of the veg websites. Veganism isn't just what you eat, it's a lifestyle and mindset based in compassion and awareness... and IMO watching for hidden ingredients [in an organized/structured way as suggested above, not in a 'making yourself crazy' way] is a key component... most vegetarians are less concerned, in my experience, with the hidden ingredients and are more focused on avoiding meat/fish/chicken = which is also fine.... So, instead of calling yourself vegan and chastising and making yourself nuts, why don't you say you're vegetarian working towards veganism? This way you'll hopefully be kinder to yourself and allow yourself to learn without driving yourself to distraction. [also, vegetarians who sometimes eat seafood are called 'pescetarians', a little more 'food for thought'] have a great day, everyone... Sheri Again, IMO, if someone's fairly casual about whether there are eggs, dairy, etc. in whatever they're eating, then this person would be a vegetarian. - peter hurd Saturday, July 31, 2004 6:14 AM Re: Re: New to group! Hi Jo, I`m with you on this one, I don`t think you need to persecute yourself or become a matyr to become a vegan. That is one of the carnivores arguements along with "well, what do you eat"!. All you need to do is give it some thaought and spend some time planning your new lifestyle. It soon becomes a lot easier than the carnies think. If you are holding on to stones in your hands, your hands will not be free to take the diamonds and gold. - Sri Sri Ravi Shankar The Valley Vegan......Jo <Heartwork wrote: Hi IanI have to disagree. If you are to call yourself vegan I think you shouldmake every effort, at least with food and drink and toileteries etc. to makesure that they are totally animal free. The reason I say this is becausethe vast majority of vegans are ethical vegans, and it is very important toavoid animal ingredients. If someone doesn't want to be too bothered aboutit, maybe they should call themselves vegetarians.Jo> silvertree173 wrote:> > I don't> > want to start obsessing over everything I eat, but yesterday I got a> > muffin at Dunkin Donuts and I'm assuming -again- it has to have eggs> > if not milk for ingredients.>> I'm probably a moderate on this compared to the rest of the list, but> this is my experience. I think it's okay to call yourself vegan and not> sweat over obscure additives present in trace quantities. (I make a real> effort to avoid them, but can't claim to know them all.) Quite a few> 'vegans' I know have occasional dessert-related lapses. (I don't, BTW.)> I'll try to make my non-food purchases vegan, but I don't treat it as> lapses in my veganism when they aren't; if pressed for a tighter> definition, I'm a dietary vegan.>> But if reasonably suspect it might have egg in it - like a muffin - then> you can't really eat it and call yourself a vegan. And eggs are no more> *vegan* than steaks. Even if the chickens didn't live in cages, their> brothers would have been killed just after hatching, and the chickens> themselves likely lived short (a matter of weeks instead of natural> years), stressed, overworked lives.>> Most vegetarians avoid factory eggs anyway. The UK Vegetarian society> refuses to certify as vegetarian foods which are free from animal flesh> but contain factory farmed eggs.>> Of course, being vegan isn't the definition of morality, and you can do> a lot to reduce the impact your purchases have on animals without being> 100% vegan.>> > As a vegan, do you just have to make a> > conscious effort to avoid foods that have obvious animal products> > like cheese or can you not eat anything at all that might have eggs> > or some milk derivative in it? I also have purchased eggs that say> > they are from cage-free, vegetarian-fed chickens, but is even this> > considered wrong? Please help because I'm driving myself crazy and my> > friends and family (all carnivorous) think I'm insane!> > Thanks,> > Chrissie> >> > , "Jo" wrote:> > > Hi Chrissie> > >> > > Welcome to the group. If any questions are asked an answer usually> > pops up> > > from somewhere, so ask away.> > >> > > Jo> > >> > > -> > > "Christelle" > > > > > > Monday, July 26, 2004 6:18 PM> > > New to group!> > >> > >> > > > Hello everyone! I'm new to the group and the world of> > > > veganism. I'm mainly vegetarian although I do eat> > > > seafood on occassion. I always feel guilty when I do> > > > this or when I eat eggs or anything like that because> > > > I think it's wrong to use animals for our consumption.> > > > I work in Boston, which is a pretty anti-vegetarian> > > > city-- never mind vegans! I joined this group because> > > > I have so many questions and I want to learn what to> > > > do I go out to restaurants and about proper nutrition,> > > > etc. I guess I am also seeking support since I don't> > > > get any from family or friends. Thanks for reading my> > > > post and hope to talk with all of you soon.> > > > Chrissie> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > New and Improved Mail - Send 10MB messages!> > > > > > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > To send an email to -> > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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