Thanksgiving shopping

[Guest guest]

Speak for yourself, Fraggle. I personally don't 'get "sucked up". When I shop I do it because I want to not because someone "ordered" me or some societal aspects were "forcing" me to do it.

 

And when you say something is VERY wrong with shopping picture telling that to all the people who make their living via the retail industry. Thousands if not millions of people benefit from this horrible pasttime of "shopping".

 

And while some overseas manufacturing is indeed, slavery, much of it is not. I am totally against exploitation by the way...but many countries and individuals in those countries are benefitting in good ways because we "shop" not to mention the millions here at home who make their money via retail or supplying products.

 

I personally do not fight with any shoppers and when I was the day after Thanksgiving everyone was well behaved and nice. And even though I enjoyed it...I certainly don't think it brings happiness...I think most people know this. They know that happiness comes from other things in life...not new items.

 

I don't buy $150 dollar sneakers...and I don't know anyone personally who does.

 

I agree, however, that there are finite resources and that it is good to live on only what we need...but I still won't make a blanket statement that all shopping is bad.

 

I think there are bigger problems in this society than shopping. For instance that horrible fight that broke out at the NBA game. I see a constant lowering of society all the time. People are less and less considerate and thoughtful of others. They also can't control their anger and emotions. Also littering. I see so much littering. To me this is much more detrimental to society than shopping.

 

Okay I've said my piece

 

Kristina

 

 

In a message dated 11/28/04 11:12:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes:

Message: 17 Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:00:57 -0800 (GMT-08:00) fraggle <EBbrewpunxRe: Re:Thanksgiving shoppingmy point is that we all get sucked into the orgy of perverse consumerism every year. Heck, everyday. But it turns into a fever pitch at this time of the year.And, sorry, yes there is something VERY wrong with it. I'm not talking about going out and getting wot you need, er maybe treating yourself. I'm talking about the over-consumptive gluttonous feast we are basically ordered to take part in every year. Its the holidays, wquick, buy buy buy! cuz consumption=happiness!! you really need that new whatchahoozits, cuz its new and improved! fill yer life with crap!!! get into fights over the latest mauve furby, cuz you really really need it, yer life isn't complete unless you fill it with stuff! My point is that we are using up a finite amount of resources.My point is that we are producing enormous amounts of wastesMy point is that we using most of the rest of the world as a basic slave colony...as fer the little gurl in indonesiaummmever talked to one?i haveand no, most of them aren't happy to have a job they get 13 ^%$%^$%^^ cents at...while we pay $150 fer that freakin sneaker...no more happy then 9 yr old coal miners here a century agothey are called sweat shops fer a reasonthey do have armed guards fer a reasonthey are placed in economically depressed areas fer a reason...the slaves sang in the fields as well...were they happy?Buy Nothing Day is a symbol against global capitalismits a stand against a ritual of over-consumptionit has nuthin to do with going out and buying a CDit is about you thinkin about wot went into that CD....who made it, how was it produced, why you are buying it...cheersthank you for listening to fraggle's rant of the day

[Guest guest]

, lv2breathe@a... wrote:

> Speak for yourself, Fraggle. I personally don't 'get " sucked up " . When I

> shop I do it because I want to not because someone " ordered " me or some

societal

> aspects were " forcing " me to do it.

>

 

 

Here is a related question/article. If shopping/buying is not bad. Why is

consumer Debt so high ?

 

Yes, we need to help other people. However, getting into debt is not the way to

do it.

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/11/04/60minutes/main653794.shtml

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

These things might be more detrimental to 'society' but not to the environment. I certainly feel it is a good idea to boycott labels you know to use child labour, such as Gap and Nike. It doesn't realy hurt someone to avoid a certain company.

 

Jo

 

-

lv2breathe

Cc: Lv2breathe

Sunday, November 28, 2004 9:44 PM

Re: Thanksgiving shopping

 

 

Speak for yourself, Fraggle. I personally don't 'get "sucked up". When I shop I do it because I want to not because someone "ordered" me or some societal aspects were "forcing" me to do it.

 

And when you say something is VERY wrong with shopping picture telling that to all the people who make their living via the retail industry. Thousands if not millions of people benefit from this horrible pasttime of "shopping".

 

And while some overseas manufacturing is indeed, slavery, much of it is not. I am totally against exploitation by the way...but many countries and individuals in those countries are benefitting in good ways because we "shop" not to mention the millions here at home who make their money via retail or supplying products.

 

I personally do not fight with any shoppers and when I was the day after Thanksgiving everyone was well behaved and nice. And even though I enjoyed it...I certainly don't think it brings happiness...I think most people know this. They know that happiness comes from other things in life...not new items.

 

I don't buy $150 dollar sneakers...and I don't know anyone personally who does.

 

I agree, however, that there are finite resources and that it is good to live on only what we need...but I still won't make a blanket statement that all shopping is bad.

 

I think there are bigger problems in this society than shopping. For instance that horrible fight that broke out at the NBA game. I see a constant lowering of society all the time. People are less and less considerate and thoughtful of others. They also can't control their anger and emotions. Also littering. I see so much littering. To me this is much more detrimental to society than shopping.

 

Okay I've said my piece

 

Kristina

 

 

In a message dated 11/28/04 11:12:19 AM Pacific Standard Time, writes:

Message: 17 Sun, 28 Nov 2004 10:00:57 -0800 (GMT-08:00) fraggle <EBbrewpunxRe: Re:Thanksgiving shoppingmy point is that we all get sucked into the orgy of perverse consumerism every year. Heck, everyday. But it turns into a fever pitch at this time of the year.And, sorry, yes there is something VERY wrong with it. I'm not talking about going out and getting wot you need, er maybe treating yourself. I'm talking about the over-consumptive gluttonous feast we are basically ordered to take part in every year. Its the holidays, wquick, buy buy buy! cuz consumption=happiness!! you really need that new whatchahoozits, cuz its new and improved! fill yer life with crap!!! get into fights over the latest mauve furby, cuz you really really need it, yer life isn't complete unless you fill it with stuff! My point is that we are using up a finite amount of resources.My point is that we are producing enormous amounts of wastesMy point is that we using most of the rest of the world as a basic slave colony...as fer the little gurl in indonesiaummmever talked to one?i haveand no, most of them aren't happy to have a job they get 13 ^%$%^$%^^ cents at...while we pay $150 fer that freakin sneaker...no more happy then 9 yr old coal miners here a century agothey are called sweat shops fer a reasonthey do have armed guards fer a reasonthey are placed in economically depressed areas fer a reason...the slaves sang in the fields as well...were they happy?Buy Nothing Day is a symbol against global capitalismits a stand against a ritual of over-consumptionit has nuthin to do with going out and buying a CDit is about you thinkin about wot went into that CD....who made it, how was it produced, why you are buying it...cheersthank you for listening to fraggle's rant of the day

To send an email to -

[Guest guest]

, " Jo bb " <Heartwork@b...> wrote:

> These things might be more detrimental to 'society' but not to the

environment.

 

 

It uses Fuel to make and ship goods. Also consider the packaging and what

happens to it after purchase. Finally, in several instances the item itself

contributes to clutter or is trashed.

 

This is certainly not in all cases but to a very significant extent.

Hence, effects on the environment are present and very evident.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

sorry kristine but i am going to speak my mind

if it doesn't fit with yer way of thinkin, ah well..sorry..but tis life...

as fer most of wot you said

Please don't by the *white man's burden* crap about how this helps ppl by giving

them jobs,.,....

destroyin an economy and then stickin them on starvation rations is not help

please remember that most of these " third world " nations had vibrant local

economies at one time, and each was crushed repeatedly by outside influences and

greed..colonialism, american banana boat and gun boat diplomacy, and nowadays by

the WTO, IMF, and globalilization...

sure, some folks get a few better things, at the cost of their resources being

squandered, cultures being uprooted, and basic servitude

sorry...i've talked to these people, from all around the world...

we aren't helping them..

and fer every piece of crap we buy from wally-mart that is oh so cheap, it means

the loss of some union job here in all reality..as its cheaper to pay someone a

pittance halfway around the world and dump yer waste there, then ship it across

the globe, then it is to pay someone a livable wage here

 

as fer litter

where do you think litter comes from????

 

its all linked...

 

as fer retail.....

pssst..got a litttle secret for you....

its not sustainable

we've become a society of consumers...we eat eat eat..freaking termite people...

we produce nuthin but waste

who cares if there are 5 billion jobs available at mcdeathburger and

wal-mart..when they don't lead anywhere, they don't pay a livable wage, and give

nothing to society...

sorry i seem to have hit a nerve with you...

but..

mass consumerism is one of the great evils of this world..rampant destruction...

and is helping us head willynilly to an end....

 

lv2breathe

Nov 28, 2004 1:44 PM

 

Cc: Lv2breathe

Re: Thanksgiving shopping

 

<HTML><HEAD>

<META charset=US-ASCII http-equiv=Content-Type content= " text/html;

charset=US-ASCII " >

<META content= " MSHTML 6.00.2800.1476 " name=GENERATOR></HEAD>

<BODY style= " FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff " >

 

 

<DIV>

<DIV>Speak for yourself, Fraggle.  I personally don't 'get " sucked up " .  When I

shop I do it because I want to not because someone " ordered " me or some societal

aspects were " forcing " me to do it.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>And when you say something is VERY wrong with shopping picture telling that

to all the people who make their living via the retail industry.  Thousands if

not millions of people benefit from this horrible pasttime of " shopping " .</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>And while some overseas manufacturing is indeed, slavery, much of it is

not.  I am totally against exploitation by the way...but many countries and

individuals in those countries are benefitting in good ways because we " shop "

not to mention the millions here at home who make their money via retail or

supplying products.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I personally do not fight with any shoppers and when I was the day after

Thanksgiving everyone was well behaved and nice.  And even though I enjoyed

it...I certainly don't think it brings happiness...I think most people know

this. They know that happiness comes from other things in life...not new

items.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I don't buy $150 dollar sneakers...and I don't know anyone personally who

does.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I agree, however, that there are finite resources and that it is good to

live on only what we need...but I still won't make a blanket statement that all

shopping is bad.  </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>I think there are bigger problems in this society than shopping.  For

instance that horrible fight that broke out at the NBA game.  I see a constant

lowering of society all the time.  People are less and less considerate and

thoughtful of others. They also can't control their anger and emotions.  Also

littering.  I see so much littering.  To me this is much more detrimental to

society than shopping.</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Okay I've said my piece</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>Kristina</DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV> </DIV>

<DIV>In a message dated 11/28/04 11:12:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,

writes:</DIV>

<BLOCKQUOTE style= " PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: blue 2px

solid " ><FONT face=Arial size=2>Message: 17        <BR>   Sun, 28 Nov 2004

10:00:57 -0800 (GMT-08:00)<BR>   fraggle

<EBbrewpunx<BR>Re: Re:Thanksgiving shopping<BR><BR>my

point is that we all get sucked into the orgy of perverse consumerism every

year. Heck, everyday. But it turns into a fever pitch at this time of the

year.<BR>And, sorry, yes there is something VERY wrong with it. I'm not talking

about going out and getting wot you need, er maybe treating yourself. I'm

talking about the over-consumptive gluttonous feast we are basically ordered to

take part in every year. Its the holidays, wquick, buy buy buy! cuz

consumption=happiness!! you really need that new whatchahoozits, cuz its new and

improved! fill yer life with crap!!! get into fights over the latest mauve

furby, cuz you really really need it, yer life isn't complete unless you fill it

with stuff! <BR>My point is that we are using up  a finite amount of

resources.<BR>My point is that we are producing enormous amounts of wastes<BR>My

point is that we using most of the rest of the world as a basic slave

colony...<BR><BR>as fer the little gurl in indonesia<BR>ummm<BR>ever talked to

one?<BR>i have<BR>and no, most of them aren't happy to have a job they get 13

^%$%^$%^^ cents at...while we pay $150 fer that freakin sneaker...<BR>no more

happy then 9 yr old coal miners here a century ago<BR>they are called sweat

shops fer a reason<BR>they do have armed guards fer a reason<BR>they are placed

in economically depressed areas fer a reason...<BR><BR>the slaves sang in the

fields as well...<BR>were they happy?<BR><BR>Buy Nothing Day is a symbol against

global capitalism<BR>its a stand against a ritual of over-consumption<BR>it has

nuthin to do with going out and buying a CD<BR>it is about you thinkin about wot

went into that CD....who made it, how was it produced, why you are buying

it...<BR>cheers<BR>thank you for listening to fraggle's rant of the

day</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>

<DIV></DIV>

<br><br>

<tt>

To send an email to - </tt>

<br><br>

 

<br>

 

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

 

<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b>

Sponsor</b></font></td>

</tr>

<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>

<td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr> <td

align=center><font face=arial size=-2></font><br><a

href= " http://us.ard./SIG=12965d8nk/M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=g\

roups/S=1705129295:HM/EXP=1101764680/A=2434971/R=0/SIG=11eeoolb0/*http://www.net\

flix.com/Default?mqso=60185400 " alt= " " ><img

src= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netflix/111704_1104_g_300250a.gif "

alt= " click here " width= " 300 " height= " 250 " border= " 0 " ></a></td></tr></table>

</td>

</tr>

<tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1

src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=groups/S=\

:HM/A=2434971/rand=135109548 " ></td></tr>

</table>

 

<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->

 

 

 

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

 

<br>

<tt><hr width= " 500 " >

<b>

[Guest guest]

well Frag

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

 

world climate is changing... this is because of co2 emissions etc etc..

co2 is up because the land is being cleared to make more room to grow crops to feed to animals for us to consume

so that people at mcDonalds can have "buck 395" an hour jobs.. so that major corps can sell them drugs so they live longer

and consume more after eating the GMO fed beef they bought at mcDeaths..

so that we consume more for longer in our life...

 

Kristine, if we all adopted the VEGAN idea the world would consume less....

at the current rate in 100 years if everyone consumes the way the Americans (includes Canada) Europeans

and Australians do we will need 7.1 planets like earth in order to survive and that is if the population were to stay the same as it is right now at approx 6.5 billion

but that probably won't happen we will double in size to 13 billion and enjoy soilent green every night for dinner

UGHHH... wake up....

consumerism or should I say ANTIconsumerism is the only way to save the planet from sure destruction

consume less don't drive anymore than necessary don't buy what you don't need and when you do buy only

local union made items to make sure the right price was paid to workers the right amount of energy was used etc..

I am afraid the reality of things is much worse than everyone believes

and that is we are too greedy as a race in order to fix the problems we have created

everyone tries to blame the Americans but still go out to take out food and eat away

they drive to the store or the shops to buy a single item.

Europe enjoys the same style of life as the Americans except they hide a bit of their wanting consumerism in Africa

Australia is now the most consumer driven country in the world (per capita) we consume more here per person than the Americans do and boy are we proud of that UGHHH... not...

the point is Fraggle said it best "

don't by the *white man's burden* crap about how this helps ppl by giving them jobs,.,...."

 

just try to ANTI consume and you will at least be making a contribution

 

all the best

Craig

 

 

 

 

 

Re: Thanksgiving shoppingsorry kristine but i am going to speak my mindif it doesn't fit with yer way of thinkin, ah well..sorry..but tis life...as fer most of wot you saidPlease don't by the *white man's burden* crap about how this helps ppl by giving them jobs,.,....destroyin an economy and then stickin them on starvation rations is not helpplease remember that most of these "third world" nations had vibrant local economies at one time, and each was crushed repeatedly by outside influences and greed..colonialism, american banana boat and gun boat diplomacy, and nowadays by the WTO, IMF, and globalilization...sure, some folks get a few better things, at the cost of their resources being squandered, cultures being uprooted, and basic servitudesorry...i've talked to these people, from all around the world...we aren't helping them..and fer every piece of crap we buy from wally-mart that is oh so cheap, it means the loss of some union job here in all reality..as its cheaper to pay someone a pittance halfway around the world and dump yer waste there, then ship it across the globe, then it is to pay someone a livable wage hereas fer litterwhere do you think litter comes from????its all linked...as fer retail.....pssst..got a litttle secret for you....its not sustainablewe've become a society of consumers...we eat eat eat..freaking termite people...we produce nuthin but wastewho cares if there are 5 billion jobs available at mcdeathburger and wal-mart..when they don't lead anywhere, they don't pay a livable wage, and give nothing to society...sorry i seem to have hit a nerve with you...but..mass consumerism is one of the great evils of this world..rampant destruction...and is helping us head willynilly to an end....

[Guest guest]

Let us assume consumerism progresses uncontrolled. How long will it take before

everyone faces serious problems and even a possible system collapse ? Please be

as detailed and descriptive as possible with specific time lines. Don't be

hesitant to share your opinions/make mistakes. This is a good learning

experience for all.

 

Thank You.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

depends on a whole variety of factors

but..everything else aside..lets look at one aspect of this..

oil

our entire civilization right now is based on a cheap energy supply...

oil...

according to some repots, we've already passed peak oil, meaning in essence that

the easily optainable stuff is already hit its peak, and we are in fer a

decline..even the most optimistic reports say peak oil will be within 50 yrs(and

few folks believe we have that long)

so..wot happens?

utter collapse..

of everything...

look around you..

wot is made of oil?

computer?

varnish on that desk?

paint on walls?

rug?

now..how did it get to where it is?

how about yer food? how much of it is packaged? packaged in wot? wot ran the

machinery to package it?

how was it grown? hordes of fertilizers dumped on our already dying soils?

pesticides? herbicides? fungicides?

how was it harvested? processed? how did it get to where you got it?

did you cook it?

let me put it to you this way..it takes calories of energy from oil to produce

one calorie of food..and thats just te cost to get it to market..doesn't factor

in the cost of ya'l gettin in yer car and gettin it, the power in the store

taking it home, and cooking it(after it sits in that fridge)

are you at home? how did yer house get built? where does the power come fer that

light? heck..how was the lightbulb made

water? how did it get to yer sink?

etc and so forth...

 

 

rvijay07

Nov 29, 2004 1:21 PM

 

Re: Thanksgiving shopping

 

 

<html><body>

 

 

<tt>

<BR>

Let us assume consumerism progresses uncontrolled. How long will it take before

everyone faces serious problems and even a possible system collapse ? Please be

as detailed and descriptive as possible with specific time lines. Don't be

hesitant to share your opinions/make mistakes. This is a good learning

experience for all.<BR>

<BR>

Thank You.<BR>

<BR>

Vijay<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

 

<br><br>

<tt>

To send an email to - </tt>

<br><br>

 

<br>

 

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

 

<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b>

Sponsor</b></font></td>

</tr>

<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>

<td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr> <td

align=center><font face=arial size=-2></font><br><a

href= " http://us.ard./SIG=129ncujcn/M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=g\

roups/S=1705129295:HM/EXP=1101849768/A=2434971/R=0/SIG=11eeoolb0/*http://www.net\

flix.com/Default?mqso=60185400 " alt= " " ><img

src= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netflix/111704_1104_g_300250a.gif "

alt= " click here " width= " 300 " height= " 250 " border= " 0 " ></a></td></tr></table>

</td>

</tr>

<tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1

src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=groups/S=\

:HM/A=2434971/rand=499563984 " ></td></tr>

</table>

 

<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->

 

 

 

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

 

<br>

<tt><hr width= " 500 " >

<b>

[Guest guest]

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:

> depends on a whole variety of factors

> but..everything else aside..lets look at one aspect of this..

> oil

> our entire civilization right now is based on a cheap energy supply...

> oil...

> according to some repots, we've already passed peak oil, meaning in essence

that the easily optainable stuff is already hit its peak, and we are in fer a

decline..even the most optimistic reports say peak oil will be within 50 yrs(and

few folks believe we have that long)

 

 

I read an article somewhere it said our Oil reserves will last us another 200

years. Which is correct ? If it is 200 years then we still have time to find

alternatives and adapt to the changes ahead.

 

With just 50 years, our cities are not designed to function without oil.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

dunno where you read that

not even close...

accordin to some folks, we've already passed peak

it means that oil will be harder to extract...which means prices will climb

quickly...

the US passed peak oil like over a decade ago...our ability to extract more oil

has been dropping steadily

saudi arabia passed peak within the last two years...

 

 

rvijay07

Nov 29, 2004 2:15 PM

 

Re: Thanksgiving shopping

 

 

<html><body>

 

 

<tt>

<BR>

, fraggle <EBbrewpunx@e...> wrote:<BR>

> depends on a whole variety of factors<BR>

> but..everything else aside..lets look at one aspect of this..<BR>

> oil<BR>

> our entire civilization right now is based on a cheap energy supply...<BR>

> oil...<BR>

> according to some repots, we've already passed peak oil, meaning in essence

that the easily optainable stuff is already hit its peak, and we are in fer a

decline..even the most optimistic reports say peak oil will be within 50 yrs(and

few folks believe we have that long)<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

I read an article somewhere it said our Oil reserves will last us another 200

years. Which is correct ? If it is 200 years then we still have time to find

alternatives and adapt to the changes ahead.<BR>

<BR>

With just 50 years, our cities are not designed to function without oil.<BR>

<BR>

Vijay<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

 

<br><br>

<tt>

To send an email to - </tt>

<br><br>

 

<br>

 

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

 

<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b>

Sponsor</b></font></td>

</tr>

<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>

<td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr> <td

align=center><font face=arial size=-2></font><br><a

href= " http://us.ard./SIG=129gk4frh/M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=g\

roups/S=1705129295:HM/EXP=1101852946/A=2434971/R=0/SIG=11eeoolb0/*http://www.net\

flix.com/Default?mqso=60185400 " alt= " " ><img

src= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netflix/111704_1104_g_300250a.gif "

alt= " click here " width= " 300 " height= " 250 " border= " 0 " ></a></td></tr></table>

</td>

</tr>

<tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1

src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=groups/S=\

:HM/A=2434971/rand=376058263 " ></td></tr>

</table>

 

<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->

 

 

 

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

 

<br>

<tt><hr width= " 500 " >

<b>

[Guest guest]

correction..US peak oil hit in 1970....

[Guest guest]

Hi Vijay

 

> I read an article somewhere it said our Oil reserves will last us another

200 years. Which is correct ? If it is 200 years then

> we still have time to find alternatives and adapt to the changes ahead.

 

It's a good question... I remember being told at school that we'd run out of

oil by the year 2000! I guess they found some more somewhere!!! However, it

is a finite resource since it takes millions of years and specific

conditions to be created, so whether it's 50 years or 200 years doesn't seem

particularly significant - the fact is it will run out sometime, and at the

moment Western civilisation just can't cope without it!

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote:

the fact is it will run out sometime, and at the

> moment Western civilisation just can't cope without it!

>

> BB

> Peter

 

 

Scientists are working on alternatives like the Electric Car etc., This search

for alternatives needs to be desperately speeded up. Also more time is needed in

this regard, the longer the oil lasts the better.

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

> , " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote:

> the fact is it will run out sometime, and at the

> > moment Western civilisation just can't cope without it!

> >

 

 

Several other sites inregards to a non commercial life. The increase in the

number of such sites indicates a growing awareness/trend. These sites are

interesting reading at leisure.

 

http://www.unconventionalideas.com/links.html

 

 

http://www.amyleblanc.com/

 

http://www.unconventionalideas.com/amdream.html

 

http://www.whywork.org/

 

http://www.primitivism.com/abolition.htm

[Guest guest]

Hiya Peter, and Vijay

you are partially correct we may still have oil for maybe even another 1000 years

BUT..... cheap oil is almost gone now

each country has it's own PEAK production point. USA hit theirs in about 1971

that is the year that the USA could no longer meet its own demand for oil.

current oil production around the world is just barely keeping up with demand

once demand goes above supply then the price will rise and it will continue to rise until it runs out or becomes

to expensive to consider as a fuel source.

In the June 2004 issue of National geographic there is a great article and a few charts and Pic's that really sums it all up

there is a 2 page spread that shows all the things that will not be possible to produce without oil.

hits really close to home

the hydrogen fuel cell looks like it will replace oil and without it ...well...... collapse..

anyway

all the best

Craig

 

 

 

: Thanksgiving shoppingHi Vijay> I read an article somewhere it said our Oil reserves will last us another200 years. Which is correct ? If it is 200 years then> we still have time to find alternatives and adapt to the changes ahead.It's a good question... I remember being told at school that we'd run out ofoil by the year 2000! I guess they found some more somewhere!!! However, itis a finite resource since it takes millions of years and specificconditions to be created, so whether it's 50 years or 200 years doesn't seemparticularly significant - the fact is it will run out sometime, and at themoment Western civilisation just can't cope without it!BBPeter

[Guest guest]

of course...where does the electricity fer the electric car come from..??

you plug the car into an outlet and it gets power from......

 

 

rvijay07

Nov 29, 2004 10:54 PM

 

Re: Thanksgiving shopping

 

 

<html><body>

 

 

<tt>

<BR>

, " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote:<BR>

the fact is it will run out sometime, and at the<BR>

> moment Western civilisation just can't cope without it!<BR>

> <BR>

> BB<BR>

> Peter<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

Scientists are working on alternatives like the Electric Car etc., This search

for alternatives needs to be desperately speeded up. Also more time is needed in

this regard, the longer the oil lasts the better.<BR>

<BR>

Vijay<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>

</tt>

 

<br><br>

<tt>

To send an email to - </tt>

<br><br>

 

<br>

 

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

 

<table border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=2>

<tr bgcolor=#FFFFCC>

<td align=center><font size= " -1 " color=#003399><b>

Sponsor</b></font></td>

</tr>

<tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF>

<td align=center width=470><table border=0 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0> <tr> <td

align=center><font face=arial size=-2></font><br><a

href= " http://us.ard./SIG=129ahnhqv/M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=g\

roups/S=1705129295:HM/EXP=1101884091/A=2434971/R=0/SIG=11eeoolb0/*http://www.net\

flix.com/Default?mqso=60185400 " alt= " " ><img

src= " http://us.a1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/a/ne/netflix/111704_1104_g_300250a.gif "

alt= " click here " width= " 300 " height= " 250 " border= " 0 " ></a></td></tr></table>

</td>

</tr>

<tr><td><img alt= " " width=1 height=1

src= " http://us.adserver./l?M=298184.5639630.6699735.3001176/D=groups/S=\

:HM/A=2434971/rand=260755951 " ></td></tr>

</table>

 

<!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->

 

 

 

<!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->

 

<br>

<tt><hr width= " 500 " >

<b>

[Guest guest]

Hi Vijay

 

> Scientists are working on alternatives like the Electric Car etc., This

search for alternatives needs to be desperately speeded

> up. Also more time is needed in this regard, the longer the oil lasts the

better.

 

Well, in terms of the " obvious " uses of oil (i.e. fuel for cars and other

things), there are already plenty of alternatives... the problem is that

they aren't as lucrative for big business, so no-one is willing to invest in

them. As a result, things like solar powered cars are way too expensive for

the ordinary person to afford :-(

 

BB

Peter

[Guest guest]

, " Peter " <metalscarab@b...> wrote:

> Well, in terms of the " obvious " uses of oil (i.e. fuel for cars and other

> things), there are already plenty of alternatives... the problem is that

> they aren't as lucrative for big business, so no-one is willing to invest in

> them. As a result, things like solar powered cars are way too expensive for

> the ordinary person to afford :-(

>

> BB

> Peter

 

 

With decrease in oil supplies/increase in oil prices, hopefully these

alternatives will become lucrative for big businesses.

 

Also consider this, all the oil beneath the earth will be burned and exist as

smoke/gases in the atmosphere theoratically after all the oil is used up. How

will this massive pollution affect the environment ? Has anyone considered this

?

 

Vijay

[Guest guest]

It appears that the 50 years left for Oil is true. Please refer to:

 

http://www.btinternet.com/~nlpwessex/Documents/oilcrisisdifferent.htm

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/29/04 1:55:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, writes:

 

Fraggle

Please don't by the *white man's burden* crap about how this helps ppl by giving them jobs,.,....

You know...I've met people like you before...who have total disdain for Western, or "white" people. If you were one of those people in retail it would matter to you where you'd get your next meal. I wonder why some care so much for people far away (and yes, this is a good value) but care nothing for those next door. And by the way...many of those people in retail are "not white". Is it possible to have compassion for everyone? There are a lot of poor Westerners...poor whites who are suffering because of globalization. Do they not matter, too? I guess not, they are the wrong color. I think for you, probably not.

 

please remember that most of these "third world" nations had vibrant local economies at one time, and each was crushed repeatedly by outside influences and greed..colonialism, american banana boat and gun boat diplomacy, and nowadays by the WTO, IMF, and globalilization...

 

I totally agree with this. I am not a cheerleader for globalization at all. I have many deep concerns. I guess the main difference is I don't hate those who shop. I don' t think their actions are necessarily "bad" however...I do see that in this world there is a lot of ramifications to "globalization". I just see them caught up in this whole thing that they did not create. And I don't think shopping, in itself, is so horrible. Yes, many of the effects of globalization ARE horrible...and I wish it weren't so at all...but shopping in itself is not the evil...it's the greed that is the evil of those at the top who are benefitting from all of it.

 

and fer every piece of crap we buy from wally-mart that is oh so cheap, it means the loss of some union job here in all reality..as its cheaper to pay someone a pittance halfway around the world and dump yer waste there, then ship it across the globe, then it is to pay someone a livable wage here

 

I totally totally agree with you here. WalMart is depressing to me. I have been in there a couple of times I always felt bad. I HATE what they are doing. I voted for the California measure to insist on health care coverage for industries that employ more than 50 people. I was very sorry to see it lose...I can't imagine what others were thinking. I think it's sickening that WalMart's heirs have more money than Buffett or Gates COMBINED but they still can't seem to share enough to provide decents jobs or health care and want to stick it to the taxpayers. And I am totally for unions...I wish WalMart and Target and all those stores would unionize...it would be a great thing.

 

as fer litterwhere do you think litter comes from????

Most of the litter I have seen is fast food wrappers. And very often I have some some people throw litter when a trash can is 5 feet away. To me this shows a huge disrespect for those around them...and huge inconsideration. I wish for more consideration for everyone in society...not just in my neighborhood...but the world. Litter brings down the quality of life...and it's really negative and thoughtless. Shopping does not equal littering. Littering is caused by a lack of consideration....it's not a given that if one shops one litters. It has to do with the individual. They don't want to bother to use trash cans.

 

as fer retail.....pssst..got a litttle secret for you....its not sustainablewe've become a society of consumers...we eat eat eat..freaking termite people...we produce nuthin but wastewho cares if there are 5 billion jobs available at mcdeathburger and wal-mart..when they don't lead anywhere, they don't pay a livable wage, and give nothing to society...sorry i seem to have hit a nerve with you

 

Um, Fraggle...you should know by now that I am not for fast food or WalMart...if you've read my responses. I guess the only nerve you've hit with me is your...what is it called...exaggeration? Or selective compassion? I have met others like you who hate the West...who have no feeling for fellow Americans. I don't think it's a nice or caring attitude...and quite frankly I think it's kind of sick.

 

Kristina

[Guest guest]

i'm gonna take this a step at a time there kiddo...

first off..wot exactly do you mean "ppl like you"?

Yuo know wot i have disdain for?

folks here in the west who think we do no wrong

folks who think we are perfect

folks who won't own up to the fact that We f*ck up a lot of sh*t

 

secondly...

white, black, purple, pink, mauve, who gives a flying f*ck

its about power

its about one culture dominating another

 

next...

compassion fer everyone

kristine hon, i do...

thats why i rail against freakin over consumption..as we leave nothing fer other ppl, future generations, other species, and all that

 

ya know wot, it sux to have a retail job

it sux to be paid below a standard someone can live on

how are we helping the poor folks who work retail when we force them into crap dead end jobs, with no benefits, no pay, no hope..just so we can grab our lil geegaw fer cheap?

its about fairness for all

thats compassion..

cheers

fraggle

 

Fraggle

Please don't by the *white man's burden* crap about how this helps ppl by giving them jobs,.,....

You know...I've met people like you before...who have total disdain for Western, or "white" people. If you were one of those people in retail it would matter to you where you'd get your next meal. I wonder why some care so much for people far away (and yes, this is a good value) but care nothing for those next door. And by the way...many of those people in retail are "not white". Is it possible to have compassion for everyone? There are a lot of poor Westerners...poor whites who are suffering because of globalization. Do they not matter, too? I guess not, they are the wrong color. I think for you, probably not.